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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Is feeling good the only measure of a good life?
    #26730048 - 06/08/20 09:08 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I've thought about this allot..

I've always been a person that has divided work and fun.. and mostly focused on the latter... focusing on the former as needed..

But i've always kind of avoided work.. calling it suffering..

I woukd say if you are happy than your not suffering..

So if your suffering you don't live a good life..

And therefore happiness or good feelings in general is the only test of a good life..

So therefore my conclusion is feeling good is valid.. and is the only true test of living a good life..!


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Offlinerustygrape
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Re: Is feeling good the only measure of a good life? [Re: BrendanFlock] * 1
    #26730071 - 06/08/20 09:18 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Feeling good is your indicator of moving in the direction of your desires and / or having manifested those desires. So, yes.

I think the problem many of us run into is tricking ourselves into thinking, rather than feeling, we are feeling "good" :blush:


Edited by rustygrape (06/08/20 09:20 PM)


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Is feeling good the only measure of a good life? [Re: rustygrape]
    #26730106 - 06/08/20 09:35 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I think both are valid..

Thinking as a conclusion..

Feeling as a necessary


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Offline4_PO_DabMerT
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Re: Is feeling good the only measure of a good life? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #26732507 - 06/09/20 07:54 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Suffering is necessary though, if only on a fundamental level. Without any sort of suffering, or even 'bad' feeling if you will, how could you possibly know no suffering, or 'good' feeling. Opposites and duality is everything, its what provides the experience of life we experience. Its the epitome of 'conscientiousness'. The ability to feel, smell, taste, hear, see, and think everything that there is to feel, smell, taste, hear, see, and think.

Just imagine for a second, seriously, what your life would be like up to now without any sort of suffering at all. Now also imagine what the world would be like without any sort of suffering. Honestly, WE anatomically modern humans, probably wouldn't exist today.

Suffering is part of the human condition, and the building blocks of progression and growth. One could almost argue that the level of ones suffering is the test of a good life; suffering, the test of a life worth living.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Is feeling good the only measure of a good life? [Re: 4_PO_DabMerT]
    #26732682 - 06/09/20 08:51 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

What doesn't kill me makes me stronger..

^definitely worked for me.. its true!


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Offline4_PO_DabMerT
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Re: Is feeling good the only measure of a good life? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #26732817 - 06/09/20 09:47 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I love some and it feels good. I love others and it hurts. Yet, regardless of how the act of loving makes me feel, I still manage to love.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Is feeling good the only measure of a good life? [Re: 4_PO_DabMerT]
    #26732825 - 06/09/20 09:53 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Love goes on and goes through love!


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is feeling good the only measure of a good life? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #26733058 - 06/09/20 11:59 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Eudaimonia or the principle of happiness is often attributed to Aristotelian ethics in classical philosophy. Of course it has its iterations in modern philosophy as well. I am something of a Platonist (owing to Psychedelic Experiences by which the Jungian archetypes and Sheldrakian Morphic Resonance seem to be reminiscent of the Platonic forms. But I greatly digress). Under my name on these forums I have listed my feeling as "Virtuous," and my signature as Socratic, yet harkening back to the Delphic Oracle's "Know Thyself." The Wikipedia article on Eudaimonia includes this Socratic blurb:

"As with all ancient ethical thinkers, Socrates thought that all human beings wanted eudaimonia more than anything else. (see Plato, Apology 30b, Euthydemus 280d–282d, Meno 87d–89a). However, Socrates adopted a quite radical form of eudaimonism (see above): he seems to have thought that virtue is both necessary and sufficient for eudaimonia. Socrates is convinced that virtues such as self-control, courage, justice, piety, wisdom and related qualities of mind and soul are absolutely crucial if a person is to lead a good and happy (eudaimon) life. Virtues guarantee a happy life eudaimonia." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eudaimonia

But beyond Socrates I have to agree with the post-modern philosophy/psychology of Logotherapy, brainchild of Auschwitz survivor the late psychiatrist Dr. Victor Frankl. For Frankl, happiness is a side-effect of a meaningful life. Meaning becomes the meta-motive. This is true for the INTP personality type. As a group we have our particular proclivities, one of which is having meaningful employment. But the meta-motive of meaning transcends typology. People simply need to self-actualize it in different ways. Sometimes the word purpose is used interchangeably with meaning

“We all have a will to meaning in us.” He said that the “will to pleasure” (Freud) and the “will to power” (Adler) do not define the human being. They do not bring happiness or fulfillment. If you try to pursue happiness for its own sake, it will elude you. Happiness “ensues” when you fulfill something that is meaningful to you. It is through that seemingly paradoxical process of “self-transcendence”—forgetting oneself—that real “self-actualization” becomes possible." - https://parabola.org/2017/01/31/viktor-frankl-and-the-search-for-meaning-a-conversation-with-alexander-vesely-and-mary-cimiluca/

In this same Parabola article I quoted above there is an interesting juxtaposition of Frankl's Logotherapy with Abraham Maslow's Psychology of Being that might also be illustrative of the nature of the "good life."

"Abraham Maslow, in his “hierarchy of needs,” said that once basic needs (food, shelter) are met, then the intangibles such as love, meaning, and self-actualization can be fulfilled. But my grandfather disagreed. He told Maslow how people did not have their “basic” needs met in the concentration camps, but it was the “higher” needs (i.e., meanings, love, and values) that proved to be much more relevant to their chance of survival. Maslow revised his ideas and said, “Frankl is right.” My grandfather emphasized that it’s not about “having what you need to live” but asking yourself, “What am I living for?” The most affluent societies have all their basic needs met, but they lack something to live for, and neurotic disorders tend to increase." - https://parabola.org/2017/01/31/viktor-frankl-and-the-search-for-meaning-a-conversation-with-alexander-vesely-and-mary-cimiluca/

:2cents:


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Is feeling good the only measure of a good life? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26733091 - 06/10/20 12:26 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

The more well off you are.. in the survival of the fittest sense.. the more happier you are?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is feeling good the only measure of a good life? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #26734581 - 06/10/20 02:26 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BrendanFlock said:
The more well off you are.. in the survival of the fittest sense.. the more happier you are?




Not necessarily. I had a hypnotherapy client who was a handsome body-builder type who ran his own successful business. He was admired and envied by others but he was not happy. It turned out that even in his 30s he still experienced himself as less than significant, as a worthless nobody. Outwardly he carried himself well and he possessed all the trappings of financial success but inside he was sadly insecure because he was being emotionally influenced by a series of childhood traumas. As a child his parents were employees of wealthy people and their spoiled-rotten children said cruel and demeaning things to him such that he developed a complex that remained with him his entire life. It was not until this damaged 'inner child' was comforted and his tormentors forgiven could he then forgive himself for continuing to self-flagellate himself by self-deprecation. (These are necessary steps in the 5-Path™ method that I subscribe to).

But the point is that physical and financial fitness does not necessarily extend to our psychological and spiritual natures and thus to our awareness and appreciation of the more obvious aspects of ourselves. There can be 'blocks' to our experience of wholeness/health/happiness and if we do not perceive our wholeness/health/happiness then we are for all intent and purpose not whole/healthy/happy. It's like one of those stories with a moral: a downtrodden, penniless man who had put on a used coat but does not check its pockets still walks around in need because he hasn't become aware that there is a $100 bill tucked away in an inside pocket.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: Is feeling good the only measure of a good life? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26735198 - 06/10/20 07:05 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Feeling good is good but at the same time there is the speel of instant gratification/delayed gratification and the what goes up must come down argument.  That being said it isn’t really that straightforward either unfortunately.  Instant gratification isn’t a catch all term to explain all experiences of that nature.  Sometimes it can be “dug” other times not so much.  All this seems to point to the conclusion that there are no rules outside of the ones we project either based on good persuasion or not.  Challenging, very challenging.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is feeling good the only measure of a good life? [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26735374 - 06/10/20 08:09 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Gratification, like satisfaction is often used in connection with the Freudian Pleasure-Principle. There are additional forms of psychic homeostasis like the word fulfillment which the book BE HERE NOW introduced to my then burgeoning spiritual vocabulary. What the actual meaning is of the word "good" in the clause "feeling good" can vary. People use the word 'good' like they use the word love in English, indiscriminately, inaccurately, and inappropriately. I'd ask adolescents (as a counselor) how they were and they'd often say "good." If pressed to describe what "good" felt like they were often stymied. They had a very limited emotional vocabulary and/or were not very reflective about what they were experiencing. I'd tease them when it felt appropriate and say "there are more  feelings than mad, sad, or glad."


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: Is feeling good the only measure of a good life? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26735430 - 06/10/20 08:33 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

“psychic homeostasis”.  I think that about says it.  I too worked with adolescences, delinquents and treatment goers, where I should of asked about their psychic homeostasis.  I could of rambled and killed a good hour there.  Which of course is the point where they are not breaking shit.  Beside the point I guess.

Yes, elaboration is important, I agree, but not everybody has that talent.  Probably due to the garbage education system.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Is feeling good the only measure of a good life? [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26735512 - 06/10/20 09:02 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Just cuz it feels good doesn’t mean it’s good.


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: Is feeling good the only measure of a good life? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26735525 - 06/10/20 09:10 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Just cuz it feels good doesn’t mean it’s good.




Time.  Should one consider time, or how much should one consider time?


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Is feeling good the only measure of a good life? [Re: Yellow Pants] * 1
    #26735544 - 06/10/20 09:21 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Considering what?  In regards to what exactly?  To me, time is a useful mental trick & social convention to be able to mentally plant little Alarm clocks & post it notes for the sake of remembering certain things & reference.  Useful to the individual in solo mode, and for collectively orchestrating events in space at the same instant in what is essentially the primordial now or present.

  It allows us to accomplish things that otherwise would never be possible.  It’s like a skillful mean for utilizing a reference point.  Beyond that, it’s not really useful.  It’s a very clever trick & handy tool- and who says illusions are good for nothing?  Time proves otherwise...that even the unreal & illusory can have a real impact on us and the world.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Is feeling good the only measure of a good life? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26735551 - 06/10/20 09:24 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Hmmm, so its not the fulfillment of wants/needs but is the very experience that we enjoy that makes us happy..

So good experience = happiness!


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Re: Is feeling good the only measure of a good life? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26735590 - 06/10/20 09:40 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Considering what?  In regards to what exactly?  To me, time is a useful mental trick & social convention to be able to mentally plant little Alarm clocks & post it notes for the sake of remembering certain things & reference.  Useful to the individual in solo mode, and for collectively orchestrating events in space at the same instant in what is essentially the primordial now or present.

  It allows us to accomplish things that otherwise would never be possible.  It’s like a skillful mean for utilizing a reference point.  Beyond that, it’s not really useful.  It’s a very clever trick & handy tool- and who says illusions are good for nothing?  Time proves otherwise...that even the unreal & illusory can have a real impact on us and the world.




See this reminds me of what I had originally thought.  To “will” is as good as it gets.  To not will is to give up yet still face existence unless of course one opts for the suicidal tactic which is of course frowned upon.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Is feeling good the only measure of a good life? [Re: Yellow Pants]
    #26735617 - 06/10/20 09:57 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Well, I went to public schools in a suburban town in NJ. I got shifted to and old elementary for one year in 5th grade that was built in 1926 (that was where I was on November 22, 1963, in reading group, when JFK got murdered. It's a Boomer thing to say where you were 'when'). It was not a "garbage education system" then and apparently the high school is now one of the best in the nation. See, unlike a LOT of people we see today, and not only Millennials and Xennials, I knew from elementary school what the 4th of July commemorates. In that 5th grade year I had to memorize the Preamble to the Constitution of the United States - something the standing faux fucking POTUS doesn't even know.



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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Is feeling good the only measure of a good life? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26735646 - 06/10/20 10:18 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I thought all schools taught students various important dates & their significant events that took place throughout American history?

They may have edited out any film that captured people who knew the answers.


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