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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: defund the police. [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #26753614 - 06/18/20 08:05 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
I still don't understand - I provided two examples of mutual aid organizations that originated within the USA, and continue to operate in the USA:

https://www.commongroundrelief.org/
https://mutualaiddisasterrelief.org/

So the argument that mutual aid won't work because "nobody cares about anyone besides themselves and their families" is patently untrue. I just provided you with two examples of mutual aid in action. I also provided you with biological and evolutionary evidence in support of mutual aid.

Why should we believe your gut feeling instead? Can you explain why the mutual aid organizations I linked to are ineffective; or why the model works for them but wouldn't work in your case?


Quote:

If you want to change society and REALLY implement mutual aid, you have to take the fear of lack out of nearly everyone on the planet.



The function of mutual aid is to do exactly this, but you seem to be under the impression that anything that doesn't operate on a global scale would be ineffective. Personally, I don't think such global change is possible and if that's what you're waiting for you'll be waiting forever - instead we have to envision how things would look like if they changed from the ground up because that's they only way we can implement change directly.

If taking away fear of lack is integral to changing society, wouldn't every instance of mutual aid that managed to take away this fear for a finite amount of people still hold a benefit? Wouldn't every additional person who benefited from this removal of fear increase the likelihood that more people would start participating in expanding mutual aid programs? Do you see the snowball?

Are you doing anything other than waiting? (god, what an endless wait!)




The thing is what universities would give free education? What mechanics would give free car repair? etc...where would it start? Are we supposed to go back to horses for transportation? Someone and or a large groups of people would have to begin the process and that's where I see the main problem with starting all of that is. It will take money unfortunately and people are greedy fuckfaced assholes when it come to money. Like I said, I love the idea and model of those things, but it doesn't seem realistic unfortunately. I see small scale and smaller communities and cities and towns doing it, but they still have to rely on bigger companies etc... for some things until they can completely stay afloat separately.


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Invisiblelarry.fisherman
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Re: defund the police. [Re: tyrannicalrex] * 1
    #26753635 - 06/18/20 08:20 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

It's not up to the universities at that point. If you're talking purely university it's one of the things that needs the most changing considering 90% of your institutes are privately funded by the Confucius Institute aka CPP aka the Chinese government. There are plenty of countries with free tertiary education.


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: defund the police. [Re: larry.fisherman] * 1
    #26753667 - 06/18/20 08:37 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Any schools really. The quality of the education is dependent on things as well. Greed is entrenched in the way society runs mostly. It is pushed by media, movies, pro sports, etc....:scat: I also see women and men who say "I need to lose some weight", and they look perfectly fine to me. Life is strange, but I'm riding this ride to the end!


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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: defund the police. [Re: larry.fisherman]
    #26753682 - 06/18/20 08:43 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

they can cut out the middleman when it comes to education its not hard

8 year olds should be taking online classes...

but they wont sell them to you until theyve collapsed the public education system, as it is in some states.

Because its not worth it to these education corporations to be supplemental, they need to control the whole market.


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: defund the police. [Re: cannabinated]
    #26753704 - 06/18/20 08:54 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Yep, it's a human centipede system.:scat:


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InvisibleTheStallionMang
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Re: defund the police. [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #26753883 - 06/18/20 09:58 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:Do you think the ones in power are going to relinquish ANY fucking thing(s) they have?




No, people in power NEVER give up power willingly. It must be taken from their cold dead hand

Hatred, anger, and racism must be bred out of humans the same way that aggressive traits were bred out of the more "family friendly" breeds of dogs. Y We must kill off the aggressive ones before they reproduce and after a few (or possibly many) generations you will begin to see a difference.

You can't teach stupid and you can't unlearn racism


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: defund the police. [Re: TheStallionMang]
    #26753907 - 06/18/20 10:07 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I know, agreed. I blame the parents and the communities that they raise the kids in mostly, but after a certain age and attained knowledge it becomes a choice.


(love the Dinasuars show ref in the avvy sig, lol)


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Offlineqman
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Re: defund the police. [Re: TheStallionMang] * 2
    #26753986 - 06/18/20 10:46 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

TheStallionMang said:
Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:Do you think the ones in power are going to relinquish ANY fucking thing(s) they have?




No, people in power NEVER give up power willingly. It must be taken from their cold dead hand

Hatred, anger, and racism must be bred out of humans the same way that aggressive traits were bred out of the more "family friendly" breeds of dogs. Y We must kill off the aggressive ones before they reproduce and after a few (or possibly many) generations you will begin to see a difference.

You can't teach stupid and you can't unlearn racism




"We must kill off the aggressive ones"

Oh, the irony. :lol:


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Re: defund the police. [Re: qman]
    #26753987 - 06/18/20 10:47 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

LOL, Let me clarify. I agreed, but not the killing part.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: defund the police. [Re: tyrannicalrex] * 1
    #26754765 - 06/18/20 03:44 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:
The thing is what universities would give free education? What mechanics would give free car repair? etc...where would it start? Are we supposed to go back to horses for transportation? Someone and or a large groups of people would have to begin the process and that's where I see the main problem with starting all of that is. It will take money unfortunately and people are greedy fuckfaced assholes when it come to money. Like I said, I love the idea and model of those things, but it doesn't seem realistic unfortunately. I see small scale and smaller communities and cities and towns doing it, but they still have to rely on bigger companies etc... for some things until they can completely stay afloat separately.



Where would it start? You, of course.

Besides mutual aid, another one of the fundamental principles of anarchist theory is that of direct action. Simply put, direct action means cutting out the middleman: solving problems yourself rather than petitioning the authorities or relying on external institutions. The last article I linked to touches on this aspect of mutual aid:

Quote:

When locals trying to rebuild asked Common Ground for help getting the proper permits, the group's policy was to help rebuild, building permits or not. "We're essentially breaking the law," Koné told me, pausing for emphasis. "That's civil disobedience." If it keeps people from living in mold-filled houses, he said, then Common Ground will do it.




It seems you're also worried that no one else would join you. Have you never heard of a teacher buying school supplies with their own money; or volunteering their time for extracurricular help? Have you never had a mechanic not charge you for their labour or the entire repair? The idea that everyone would participate is just as illogical as the notion that no one would - and we don't need 100% participation anyways in order to be able to tap into the benefits of mutual aid.

The process is already started! Of course mutual aid alone isn't the only method of anarchist organizing, but the beauty of mutual aid is that we can practice it in so many ways, in so many different and vital aspects of our lives - you're probably arguing against the viability of a practice you already incorporate into your life. Even if it doesn't completely overhaul our society - so what? - any level of implementation will be beneficial. Here are five areas of everyday life where we practice mutual aid all the time - whether we know it or not:

Sharing Resources

Getting involved in waste reduction and goods redistribution are great ways to start engaging with mutual aid projects. Many of us have more than we will ever need, while others are struggling to obtain the most basic items needed to sustain themselves and their families. Projects like Food Not Bombs, community food pantries and kitchens are often on the front line of cooking and sharing food that was otherwise destined for the landfill. Community tool libraries, vegetable seed swap events, and Really Really Free Markets are also examples of mutual aid in action, whereby useful resources are made freely available to those who need them. If any of these projects exist in your community, they will nearly always welcome extra hands.

Learn more:
The Really Really Free Market, Instituting The Gift Economy
Food, Not Bombs – Serving Free Meals in a Radical Way


Disaster Response

Capitalism is a disaster in so many ways. Disasters fueled by climate change, industrial “accidents,” and crimes stemming from political corruption (e.g., the poisoning of the water system in Flint, Michigan) impact an increasing number of communities and ecosystems every year. Disaster response by governments and large NGOs is frequently inadequate and heavily biased by racism and classism. Mutual aid disaster response networks have been emerging as highly effective alternatives, with local know-how launching rapid response rescues and evacuations, food kitchens, distribution of emergency supplies, and emergency accommodation networks that are safe for undocumented folks and others who might find government shelters unsafe or otherwise problematic. If your region doesn’t already have its own mutual-aid disaster response group, there are a number of great resources online for creating one.

Learn more:
Black Flags and Windmills: Hope, Anarchy, and the Common Ground Collective by scott crow
The Battle for Paradise
View documentary: Trouble: No Permission Needed


Skill Sharing

Do you have experience or skills that other people could learn from? Community workshops, how-to-guides, and online videos are fantastic ways to share skills in the spirit of mutual aid. Self-defense, local ecological knowledge, ancestral skills, healing methods, emergency medicine, crafts, bike and car repairs, building and carpentry … the potential for skill sharing is infinite. In-person workshops are an especially powerful form of mutual aid because they facilitate community connections and create new spaces for development of local relationships and projects. How-to guides in the form of printed and digital zines, blog posts, and videos have the potential to reach more geographically disparate audiences and can plant seeds of knowledge, inspiration, and mutual aid in far flung places.

Learn more:
This co-op bike shop will teach you to fix your own damn bike (and that matters)
Anarchist Workshop Brings Bike Skills to the People


Community Defense

Since hate groups constantly shift their targets, there’s always a need for a smart, agile, organized community response to the virtual and physical threats posed by such groups, including state-sanctioned violence perpetrated by law enforcement. With physical and online aggression from white nationalists and neo-fascists on the rise, we can support at-risk members of our communities in a variety of ways. These extend from establishing safe houses and safe spaces to forming well-trained self defense groups and cop watch networks to anti-doxxing security measures, legal support, and communication systems that share information about the location and activities of hate groups. How a community responds to hate and violence needs to be informed by the unique situation that community experiences; the process should always center the voices of those being marginalized.

Learn more:
Antifa Seven Hills
Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook, by Mark Bray
The Antifa Comic Book: 100 Years of Fascism and Antifa Movements by Gord Hill
View: Scott Crow vs Tucker Carlson on Antifa, antifascist organizing


Legal Support

The U.S. is the biggest carceral society in the world; opposing the prison industrial complex and supporting community members facing state persecution is one significant focal point of collective organizing and struggle. With unfortunate frequency we see radical individuals and groups being targeted by the state, which uses the courts and the prison system as a weapon. The legal system turns people’s lives upside down and has an enormous impact on families and loved ones. Mutual aid in the form of legal support can mean turning up to court as an expression of solidarity with those being targeted by the state; helping to find appropriate legal representation; supporting family members of those going to trial or already in prison; childcare; fundraising for legal costs; and setting up prison support networks that can sustain the work for the long haul. Community bond funds are a type of mutual aid project that are increasingly springing up around the country to pay bonds for people charged with crimes. These revolving funds support individuals and communities impacted by structural violence and who cannot afford to pay the bonds themselves. Engaging in legal support can also entail mounting media campaigns to amplify the narrative and plight of defendants/prisoners.

Learn more:
Crashing the Party: Legacies and Lessons from the RNC 2000 by Kris Hermes
Midnight Special Law Collective
Grand Jury Resistance Project
Anarchist Black Cross Federation
Chicago Community Bond Fund
Philadelphia Community Bond Fund






In its proper sense, mutual aid does not describe a program that provides unidirectional assistance for others the way a charity organization does. Rather, it is the decentralized practice of reciprocal care via which participants in a network make sure that everyone gets what they need, so that everyone has reason to be invested in everyone else’s well-being. This is not a matter of tit-for-tat exchange, but rather an interchange of care and resources that creates the sort of redundancy and resilience that can sustain a community through difficult times. Mutual aid networks thrive best when it is possible to build up reciprocal trust with others over a long period of time. You don’t have to know or even like everyone else in the network, but everyone has to give enough to the network that together, your efforts create a sense of abundance.

The framework of reciprocity might seem to lend itself to social stratification, in which people from similar social classes with similar access to resources gravitate to each other in order to get the best return on the investment of their own resources. But groups from different backgrounds can have access to a wide range of different kinds of resources. In these times, financial wealth may prove much less valuable than experience with plumbing, the ability to speak a particular dialect, or social ties in a community you never thought you’d find yourself depending on. Everyone has good cause to extend their networks of mutual aid as far and wide as possible.

The fundamental idea here is that it is our bonds with others that keep us safe, not our protection from them or our power over them. Preppers who have focused on building up a private stockpile of food, gear, and weapons are putting the pieces in place for an each-against-all apocalypse. If you put all your energy into individual solutions, leaving everyone around you to fight for survival on their own, your only hope is to outgun the competition. And even if you do - when there’s no one else to turn those guns on, you’ll be the last one left, and that gun will be the last tool at your disposal.


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: defund the police. [Re: qman]
    #26754815 - 06/18/20 04:02 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

TheStallionMang said:
No, people in power NEVER give up power willingly. It must be taken from their cold dead hand

Hatred, anger, and racism must be bred out of humans the same way that aggressive traits were bred out of the more "family friendly" breeds of dogs. Y We must kill off the aggressive ones before they reproduce and after a few (or possibly many) generations you will begin to see a difference.

You can't teach stupid and you can't unlearn racism




"We must kill off the aggressive ones"

Oh, the irony. :lol:



Thought that was worth taking a second look at.  See how that works..?:cookiemonster:

What could to wrong?


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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OfflineMightyWhite
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Re: defund the police. [Re: larry.fisherman]
    #26778375 - 06/24/20 04:15 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

larry.fisherman said:
Quote:

MightyWhite said:
Auntie teefa Shiva

LOL

Hey, come protest in the road for me.



"I disagree and I'd run you over for it." Way to be the problem everyone else sees...




Could you please tone down your estrogen level so you can think clearly? Thanks

Politics aside, do you believe that's it's a good idea to stop a truck that's hauling a hazmat load in a crowd of cars? Maybe a truck hauling magnesium powder? Maybe Koods or Asante can take the time to explain to you what happens if magnesium catches on fire or how easy it is to extinguish a magnesium fire. You probably don't realize a fuel tanker is a rolling bomb? DHS monitors their movement closely, and their basically instructed to stop for NO ONE. That wouldn't be catastrophic if somebody hijacked a fuel tanker because it was stopped.

Is it a good idea to stop a truck carrying time sensitive freight to a hospital?  Because I've never brought a truckload of baby formula to DeVos children's hospital in Grand Rapids, MI or anything like that and I haven't brought a truckload of needed PPE and surgical supplies to Ford hospital in Detroit. Not me, no one needs that stuff and they can just wait.

Next time I'll think about your feelings and forget about getting the things to save people's lives to where it needs to be. I don't want to be the problem that everyone can see


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: defund the police. [Re: MightyWhite] * 2
    #26778381 - 06/24/20 04:22 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

When a bitch starts to meddle,
Stomp the gas pedal!!:fuckyeah::leocheers::snowman::crankey:


I just made that up..:smug:

:redneck:


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:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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Offlineviraldrome
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Re: defund the police. [Re: TheStallionMang] * 1
    #26778396 - 06/24/20 04:38 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

TheStallionMang said:
Quote:

tyrannicalrex said:Do you think the ones in power are going to relinquish ANY fucking thing(s) they have?




No, people in power NEVER give up power willingly. It must be taken from their cold dead hand

Hatred, anger, and racism must be bred out of humans the same way that aggressive traits were bred out of the more "family friendly" breeds of dogs. Y We must kill off the aggressive ones before they reproduce and after a few (or possibly many) generations you will begin to see a difference.

You can't teach stupid and you can't unlearn racism





So you want to Euthanize racists? Like gas them in an oven? For having a different opinion than you? You know opinions aren't genetic traits right? Like two liberal professors can have a racist kid.

The people's whose racist attitudes do the most damage would never be caught waving a nazi flag or going to a hate rally, how exactly are you going to weed them out in your genocidal utopia? Like the racist landlord who wont rent to blacks, or the bank manager who denies them loans, or the teacher who gives up on them. All of those people do way more damage than openly racist losers.


--------------------
Lysergamides I have tried so far: 1P-LSD, 1cP-LSD, ALD-52, AL-LAD, LSZ, ETH-LAD, MIPLA, EIPLA, 1cP-AL-LAD


Edited by viraldrome (06/24/20 07:09 AM)


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Invisiblelarry.fisherman
shoulda died already
I'm a teapot

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Posts: 36,294
Re: defund the police. [Re: MightyWhite] * 2
    #26778425 - 06/24/20 05:15 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MightyWhite said:
Quote:

larry.fisherman said:
Quote:

MightyWhite said:
Auntie teefa Shiva

LOL

Hey, come protest in the road for me.



"I disagree and I'd run you over for it." Way to be the problem everyone else sees...




Could you please tone down your estrogen level so you can think clearly? Thanks

Politics aside, do you believe that's it's a good idea to stop a truck that's hauling a hazmat load in a crowd of cars? Maybe a truck hauling magnesium powder? Maybe Koods or Asante can take the time to explain to you what happens if magnesium catches on fire or how easy it is to extinguish a magnesium fire. You probably don't realize a fuel tanker is a rolling bomb? DHS monitors their movement closely, and their basically instructed to stop for NO ONE. That wouldn't be catastrophic if somebody hijacked a fuel tanker because it was stopped.

Is it a good idea to stop a truck carrying time sensitive freight to a hospital?  Because I've never brought a truckload of baby formula to DeVos children's hospital in Grand Rapids, MI or anything like that and I haven't brought a truckload of needed PPE and surgical supplies to Ford hospital in Detroit. Not me, no one needs that stuff and they can just wait.

Next time I'll think about your feelings and forget about getting the things to save people's lives to where it needs to be. I don't want to be the problem that everyone can see



Why are you so butthurt? Is it because you said something stupid? It doesn't help following it up with something else stupid. Did you say this before? Are you explaining something or giving me an excuse? Next time you try calling me a woman and implying I'm whining, how about you have the presence of mind to be intelligent enough to realize what you're saying is irrelevant. You can't just tack on details after you say something and expect someone to have read your mind. Are you really so stupid that you don't realize you just insulted me because you're being fucking stupid? "Lawl I said something fucking dumb but it's actually really smart didn't you know I have this whole convoluted reasoning to insult you?" Maybe if you didn't speak so brainlessly I wouldn't speak to you like you need help chewing your food but as it is I think this goes completely over your head. Even if you weren't just looking for excuses to try to appear "better" than me, you know the guy not talking about running people over for their own amusement, it would still be something fucking dumb to say and the fact that you can't get your point across without trying to UNMAN me just tells me you're so in your feelings that deep down you agree, you said some stupid ass shit.


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: defund the police. [Re: larry.fisherman]
    #26778440 - 06/24/20 05:40 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Blazers mate, calm your farm!:crankey:


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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Invisiblelarry.fisherman
shoulda died already
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Re: defund the police. [Re: Amanita86] * 1
    #26778451 - 06/24/20 05:47 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Right and your response to him was..? Keep your bias and shove it up your ass. I'm being called shit because he wants to laugh about running people over for having differing opinions and you're coming at me for responding to it? Like, fuck off little boy.


Edited by larry.fisherman (06/24/20 05:49 AM)


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InvisibleAmanita86
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Re: defund the police. [Re: larry.fisherman]
    #26778536 - 06/24/20 06:44 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

:orly:


:shotsfired:

My advice would be it’s best not to interfere with the operation of a motor vehicle, especially using your body.:themoreyouknow:


--------------------
:mushroom2:Orange clock, pencil:bouncysmoke:
"They threw me off the hay truck about noon...":fishing:
:mushroom2:*Mark 15:34:levitate::mushroom2::blueninja:
Gam zeh ya’avor...:sunny:


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Onlinegopher
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Re: defund the police. [Re: Amanita86]
    #26778569 - 06/24/20 07:07 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

there was a story here a week or 2 ago where some animal activist were protesting infront of a slaughter house because a new law that said you couldnt block truck coming and going from places like these, some women was struck and killed by a truck leaving with a load, I immediately thought it was some dumb kid, but then they said she was 65 or something like that, they said its unknown if the truck driver will face charges, so I am assuming she jumped infront of the truck last moment, I would think otherwise the truck driver would be charged


--------------------
For most of the normies out there, an operating system is just a bootloader for Google Chrome.

Since Disney has obtained tremendous value from the public domain, knows how important the public domain is, and is firmly determined to never contribute anything to it.

My pronouns are He and Him, and my adjectives are Fat and Jazzy

:kratom:


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Invisiblelarry.fisherman
shoulda died already
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Re: defund the police. [Re: Amanita86]
    #26778606 - 06/24/20 07:26 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
:orly:


:shotsfired:

My advice would be it’s best not to interfere with the operation of a motor vehicle, especially using your body.:themoreyouknow:



Why is that? Because I don't give much creedence to the bullshit that comes out of your cliquey ass? Be consistent and what you say might matter, otherwise you're just being a little shit playing defense for no other reason than to defend someone who was out of line.


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