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pirate-blues


Registered: 10/15/12
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: MrBlueYoMind] 1
#26728413 - 06/08/20 08:40 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Dude medical professionals take an ethical oath, by not treating patients according to protocol they are breaking that and there are massive ethical and legal implications. Not believing in hoodoo does not make one a racist. That's fucking bonkers.
Everyone doesn't have to believe the same shit for there to be equality, that is so silly and completely unrealistic. Offering people the ability and accessibility to practice their beliefs, and respecting those beliefs is the best we can do.
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MrBlueYoMind
Don't do drugs (Without me)

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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: pirate-blues] 1
#26728446 - 06/08/20 08:56 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I literally never said he wouldn't treat people the same.
I shared a video where people are making the argument that western science is colonized and supporting it is racist because it rejects such notions as dancing to cause lightning strikes.
My assertion that he is racist for supporting western medicine over hoodoo is based on the same argument.
If you don't believe that a dance that causes lightning to strike is equally valid science as an MDMA synthesis that means you're racist according to the ladies in the video.
I only elaborated on their position in the context of him seeing western medicine as superior to hoodoo in the context of saving your life.
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morrowasted
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: pirate-blues]
#26728448 - 06/08/20 08:56 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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The guy is essentially saying that any black doctor who tries to talk another black person who believes in hoodoo into taking antibiotics becaus he believes the antibiotics will be more effective on the basis of evidence and experience is being racist against black people. I really dont have anything to say to that. Carry on
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pirate-blues


Registered: 10/15/12
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
#26728450 - 06/08/20 08:57 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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So can you sum up what kind of point you're trying to make here then?
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MrBlueYoMind
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: morrowasted] 1
#26728451 - 06/08/20 08:58 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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No, the ladies in the video are saying that. I'm merely presenting their position to you.
The argument is pretty clear:
Western Science/Medicine is racist because it discounts tribal beliefs such as rain dances, or contacting spirits or hammering nails into inanimate objects to channel intent/powers. It's a pretty white science concept to go against the belief in spirits/ghosts and such, and it was white people who went all over the world fucking up the tribes who believe(d) in it. Approved Western Science and Medicine doesn't have any books on spirits and how to contact them or use them for healing, correct? You think just because a Dr is black that he isn't practicing white supremacy? That's the classic "Yeah he's a cop, but he's black so it's not white supremacy."
Edited by MrBlueYoMind (06/08/20 03:18 PM)
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morrowasted
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: morrowasted]
#26728457 - 06/08/20 09:01 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I will say one thing actually. You can be sure that hospitals attempt to use the most effective medical interventions because failing to do puts them at risk of lawsuits and simply losing business to other hospitals. If some given hoodoo practice were the most effective way to prevent a hospital from incurring a lawsuit you can bet they would be all over it.
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morrowasted
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
#26728459 - 06/08/20 09:03 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
MrBlueYoMind said: No, the ladies in the video are saying that. I'm merely presenting their position to you.
Oh, okay, so youre just trying to be contrarian by posting contrarian opinions you dont actually hold, got it
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MrBlueYoMind
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: morrowasted] 1
#26728482 - 06/08/20 09:18 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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No, not being contrarian at all actually. I'm elaborating on this persons position.
I believe in science, but western medicine falls short in the spirtual aspects. All the people addicted to pain pills, the invention of heroin and all those evil fucking spinoffs. Nah dude, there are some pretty solid points to be had about the medical system and white supremacy.
More of a devils advocate than a contrarian.
You still have failed to answer any of the questions I posed.
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Ovoidhunter
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: MrBlueYoMind] 1
#26728503 - 06/08/20 09:30 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Maby thats because "western medicine" isn't supposed to be spiritual. Its supposed to be backed by hard evidence that it works, otherwise its just a placebo. Placebo may help with the psychological aspects off your problem but will not cure the ailment itself.
Not saying we should outlaw rain dances or anything tho.
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pirate-blues


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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: Ovoidhunter] 2
#26728511 - 06/08/20 09:35 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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My major beef with western medicine - particularly US Healthcare - is it's been leveraged for some really fucked up racist shit.
https://www.pbs.org/independentlens/blog/unwanted-sterilization-and-eugenics-programs-in-the-united-states/
That's honestly just beginning to even glance at the amount of fucked up racist, sexist, overall prejudiced shit that has happened to people at the hands of doctors in the last 100 years. There's still massive disparities in how different races are treated as well when seeking medical help.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/discrimination-black-womens-health/
https://news.berkeley.edu/2019/01/18/invisiblevisits/
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Ovoidhunter
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: pirate-blues] 3
#26728525 - 06/08/20 09:46 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment This was in america. ^^^ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemala_syphilis_experiments
You forgot these. Doctors infected soldiers, prostitutes, prisoners and mental patients with syphilis and other sexually transmitted diseases, without the informed consent of the subjects. The experiment resulted in at least 83 deaths. Studies continued through 1953 involving the same vulnerable populations in addition to children from state-run schools, an orphanage, and rural towns, though the intentional infection of patients ended with the original study.
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qman
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: morrowasted]
#26728540 - 06/08/20 09:54 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said:
Quote:
D3monic said: All the narratives lately feel very anti white, even from the left. Everyone likes to say, imagine what it feels like to be black... as far as I know most blacks have never been jumped, for simply trying to walk through a neighborhood. I’ve experienced nothing but anti white racism growing up in a predominantly hispanic and black neighborhoods.
except the narrative you just gave, which is um, extremely common. I also got beat up by the black kids in middle school. When i grew up i realized it was because of how relatively lucky i am but didnt realize i was at the time, but i will digress.
Were the whites kids in the 1950-60's that were attack everyday by the black kids in their community also lucky? That's what happened to my friends parents that lived in the city. It wasn't because they were more economically disadvantaged, it was because of the racial divide that existed. All of their parents worked and lived in the same area, it was all blue-collar living.
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mycosis


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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: qman] 1
#26728553 - 06/08/20 10:01 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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There are only two white people in the whole neighborhood I live in and I have never felt safer.
I used to live in a completely white neighborhood and it was nothing but trouble. White people are dangerous!
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morrowasted
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: Ovoidhunter]
#26728629 - 06/08/20 10:28 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ovoidhunter said: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_syphilis_experiment This was in america. ^^^ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemala_syphilis_experiments
You forgot these. Doctors infected soldiers, prostitutes, prisoners and mental patients with syphilis and other sexually transmitted diseases, without the informed consent of the subjects. The experiment resulted in at least 83 deaths. Studies continued through 1953 involving the same vulnerable populations in addition to children from state-run schools, an orphanage, and rural towns, though the intentional infection of patients ended with the original study.
they dont do this anymore. Everyone swears an oath of nonmaleficence. But yes unfortunately people figured out a lot of stuff in the early 20th century in immoral ways. We are taught all about that stuff in school specifically as a lesson in how to not practice medicine.
For example right now if you want to do the challenge trial for the covid vaccine you get paid thousands of dollars, they used to just use prisoners and shit
The whoke process of informed consent is very elaborate now and you can lose your license for not adhering to it
Edited by morrowasted (06/08/20 10:35 AM)
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morrowasted
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
#26728638 - 06/08/20 10:31 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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And no i do not argue with people playing devil's advocate. If that particular person in the video who actually believes comes in here i would be happy to discuss why i do not believe that recommending western medicines to believers in hoodoo has anything to do with racism. Better yet i wpuld be happy to put her in touch with a black doctor to explain as much. but i am not gonna argue with someone who admittedly doesnt even have a dog in the fight and just wants to argue
Edited by morrowasted (06/08/20 10:39 AM)
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morrowasted
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: morrowasted] 1
#26728642 - 06/08/20 10:34 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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And yes there is still systemic discrimination in medicine which is why people like me exist to try and coordinate social services for people in a system that doesnt particularly care about them
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MrBlueYoMind
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: mycosis] 3
#26728672 - 06/08/20 10:53 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said: I am not judging people for "doing magic" or alt medicine, like i said hoodoo specifically became popular during and after slave days bc they did not have access to western medicine.
This comment proves you're a white supremacist since you believe they would have abandoned their tribal beliefs for western medicine even if they weren't enslaved. They were still Africans with African spiritual beliefs before being enslaved, correct? Therefor, the resulting amalgamation of African Spirit beliefs known as Hoodoo isn't the result of not getting western medicine, but is directly the result of them coming from different parts of Africa and combining what they believed from before they were slaves into a unified belief. The idea that if they had access to western medicine as slaves would somehow make them turn on their ancestral beliefs is 10000% white superiority yes? People accept western medicine AND hoodoo type practices (Asante for example) and people still reject western medicine in favor of ancestral practices despite being exposed to western medicine so your position is negated by reality. "I'm not judging them even though I think their behaviors are pointless(otherwise I would do them) and I would expect anyone who comes across my beliefs to abandon their ancestors beliefs" LOL "If a hoodoo practice turned out to be the best way to do it, then we would accept it and do it that way" Ummm cultural appropriation anyone? Like when they go and find tribal medicines and then turn it into a pill and sell it as a white western science invention?
-----------------------------------
The lady presented a very real position and many people hold it. A rain dance is only one example, but it really applies to anything it dismisses from another culture but isn't capable of accurately portraying in the first place. What is your rebuttal other than "I'd save all colors" and "There's black doctors" cause it's the same argument people who say "I have black friends" and "There's black cops" say when accused of being racist.
What happens if more and more people start thinking like this regarding your specific institution? You scoff at the notion that western medicine or science would accept a dance as equally important as phlebotomy, but what happens if it does to placate people? Like when you bring in acupuncturists despite in your mind believing they are wasting their time and should just do it the way you suggest if they want to live? You don't do that for respect of their beliefs, you do it so you don't get sued for discrimination. Maybe you pat yourself on the back for being progressive and going against your beliefs by accepting beliefs you deem to be nonsense? What happens if someone requests that you slaughter a small animal before performing surgery? At what level of internal disagreement do you draw the line?
How is infecting Guatemalans with syphilis not human sacrifice like Aztecs ripping hearts out tho?
I'm not accusing you of not having Ethics nor of actually holding hate in your heart, but I'd suggest you figure out how to debate the positions I'm presenting you with because it's not going away.
Just because I don't fully agree with all aspects of a position doesn't mean I'm not able to accurately understand the position and argue for it. Have you ever taken a debate class?
Edited by MrBlueYoMind (06/08/20 01:36 PM)
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morrowasted
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: MrBlueYoMind] 2
#26728724 - 06/08/20 11:18 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah i am not gonna read any of that past you calling me a white supremacist, too busy at work playing patient advocate, contacting social workers so uninsured minorities can find facilities to go to and receive care, to have time to fuck around with edgelords playing devils advocate.
Quote:
If that particular person in the video who actually believes comes in here i would be happy to discuss why i do not believe that recommending western medicines to believers in hoodoo has anything to do with racism. Better yet i wpuld be happy to put her in touch with a black doctor to explain as much
Take care
Edited by morrowasted (06/08/20 11:23 AM)
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Brian Jones
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: Tripsurfer]
#26728752 - 06/08/20 11:37 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tripsurfer said: either a Fascist or a Nazi
What do you mean "or"?
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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pachoo
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: morrowasted] 5
#26728759 - 06/08/20 11:41 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said:
Quote:
even just psychiatry...Can we just talk about the 'witches' brews' that were used in the past that brought about some modern medicines? Or even the fact that it was the witches/Shamans/Pagans/Medicine Women and Men who use psychedelics in the first place to converse with spirit and heal traumas? I guess it's all just a little bit of hocus pocus anyways. 
sure, those things paved the way for real medicine. Now we have it. I promise you you are better off getting a culture done to see specifically what kind of infection you have so that you can have a specific antibiotic regimen tailored to that infection rather than having a poultice of tee tree oil or whatever spread all of your wound. The latter is probably better than nothing but it aint as good as a real anitbiotic
I can’t tell if you are serious or not with your answer. There seems to be a much smaller population who relies solely on folk medicine than modern medicine for severe cases and injuries (with regard to people actually having adequate health insurance), that's not the debate. The debate is that you called it fake and bullshit. I think it comes from your lack of understanding when you state 'witches' or 'witchcraft' in general. Society deemed anyone who could heal with spiritual and found knowledge of plant use a witch. Therefor they were burned because it did not fit society's terms of what was medicine. Many doctors were unable to heal patients so they sought out alternative ways to be healed, and many a times alternative medicine, or witchcraft, was the cure. And those 'witches brews' helped pave a way for modern science when we found out how to use science to properly determine the used ingredients. Even in modern times, 'witches brews' use folk medicine to help alleviate symptoms and anatomical problems as a preventative measure, which is why most folk medicine has a citation that states that you should consult your doctor before using them.
'Witches brews' were not just poultices to rub on an infected persons either, using foxglove for heart problems which modern medicine paved to use the found chemicals for heart and blood pressure medicines as well a the witch's use of willow bark which ultimately made our way into modern medicine as common aspirin. Not to mention the amount of help witch's found knowledge of midwifery in society about childbirth.
I see you did not touch on the use of psychedelics in regards to witches and other pagan religions use of conversing with spirits and healing trauma. There is not much debate on the positives of that, concerning what forum we are on in the first place. As far as I am concerned, everyone who has gained positives, or trauma healing benefits, can thank the 'witches' of the past for tripping their asses off in the first place. And that's no fake or bullshit, hella real talk.
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