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Aesc
Stranger
Registered: 06/04/20
Posts: 22
Loc: WA
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26726764 - 06/07/20 02:47 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said:
You might be happy to know I’ve spent years attempting to separate the wheat from the chaff regarding Zen schools and their major existing lineages. If you ever get deeply back into that life and are looking for a real deal sangha with a genuinely extraordinarily ordinary teacher whose not got the stink of enlightenment, and who makes Zero excuses for immoral behavior, and lived/lives and walks the talk - let me know over PM .
You may see me joke around and goof off a lot in the Pub, but that’s just an online persona, offline I generally do not act or live so heedlessly. Take care!
I would definitely be interested in hearing your thoughts on the matter! I miss being part of a spiritual community - having been involved with a few of the bad apples, I went through a period of severe disillusionment, but I know that having a group to practice with is something that is lacking in my life and I believe that there are good ones out there.
I'm hopping back off to do some housework (so fun!), but I'll shoot you a pm when I'm back on later.
--------------------
Æ
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: The Blind Ass] 1
#26727055 - 06/07/20 04:52 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said:
Quote:
lowbrow said: Witchcraft is no more fake than psychiatry. That’s a fact.
In fact, modern psychiatry took a lot from witchcraft.
Carl Jung is huge among occultists.
Like Alchemy? how similar/dissimilar is it too witchcraft (which btw I’m not familiar with)
Alchemy was a big one, but also a lot of stuff out of Hermetic Mysticism
Witches are real -- the witch hunts were a falsification and demonization of people tho and while modern anti-racism depends on being able to produce documented instances of racist behaviour from people the witch hunts were about punishing people for fabricated claims -- a married man who found a single woman attractive could cause her death by claiming she had magically seduced his attention away from his wife a dude with few friends and a large garden of mind-altering substances would be tried and killed on the basis of presumed poisonings
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: Aesc] 3
#26727071 - 06/07/20 05:02 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Aesc said:
Quote:
Tantrika said:
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morrowasted said: tantrika thats a perfect gif
We discussed it a lot in Tantric Buddhism studies, my professor was a big sci-fi fan  it was used to "explain" enlightenment and the seemingly non-enlightened actions of some masters Marpa Lotsāwa was known for drunkeness and fighting since his childhood but also for continuing to drink heavily and beat some of his disciples and potentially wife and children after becoming a recognized enlightened master and single-handedly carrying a teaching lineage from India to Tibet
like psychedelics, enlightenment does not change conventional personality
This is something that I have continually run up against in spiritual goups. What I don't get is the apologism for toxicity enacted by "the (supposedly) enlightened". I spent a lot of time on the edges of a certain Zen lineage about 10 years ago - never went full in, but some of the members of the local Zendo that I was active at were ordained. Several of them had some pretty questionable ideas and practices in their personal lives. My ex-husband, who turned out to have made up his ordination credentials (before I met him... he was an abusive gas-lighter and it turned out to be this whole thing and was a flash-in-the-pan controversy in the wider Zen community at the time), was waaaaay in to citing Chogyam Trungpa's abusive behavior as an explanation for his own 'crazy wisdom'... it was disgusting. I have spent a lot of time since then questioning the way these eastern spiritual practices have morphed in the west... when so many of the teachers who came to import it here and gather these large followings to disseminate them kinda went crazy on power along the way. Is it the relative lack of constraints here as opposed to the more regimented monastic communities that they came from? I dunno. The same thing has happened in yoga. Over the last 10 years this same cycle of controversy surrounding abusive practices (particularly with sex and money) continues to play out over and over again with well known leaders in both communities.
At any rate, to bring it back to the question of the original post, I do tend to agree that sustained psychological work (and willingness to see one's inherent prejudices and blind-spots) is necessary to bring about lasting change in one's point of view. It is one thing to have a revelatory moment (or trip), and sometimes there are the rare cases where personality change is immediate and sustained (and that includes negative as well as positive personality change), but introspection -- and enacting changes in one's thought and actions based on that introspection -- should be a lasting effort.
You may find interest in the book called The Novice by Stephen Schettini he provides an account of his time in a European monastery, where his problems began with his fellow monks and the leader of the monastery ostracizing him for speaking alone with a woman as everyone presumed he went off with her to have sex and break his vows
but he backpacks his way to India, having terrible experiences along the way like getting hooked on Morphine for weeks in a shitty little hostel somewhere in Pakistan
and when he gets to India and joins the Tibetan monastic community there he finds out that the monks beat the children, that there is no toilet so people just go crouch and shit in a disgusting field of human waste and when he finally gets to meet the Dalai Lama he raises all his concerns with the community and the Dalai Lama just shrugs them off as no big deal
this is backed up by a lot of scriptural work older than Chogyam Trungpa with ancient Tantric Buddhist masters doing really obscene or riduculous things like one who sat eating live pigeons all day until the monastery kicked him out then when they kicked him out he supposedly turned all the pigeon corpses back into living creatures told the monks and the teacher that they were stupid and he had found true enlightenment then skated off across the unfrozen surface of a lake to start his own Buddhist tradition
and it definitely is used by many people in the modern world as an excuse for really objectionable behaviour without actually providing the deep compassion and uplifting that is also associated with their teachings
to go back to Marpa, he frequently beat the shit out of his disciple Milarepa but Milarepa would go on to become an englightened master himself, and would always speak of Marpa as being a deeply caring individual even when describing the beatings, which he claimed helped him break out of his previous perceptions
Milarepa post-enlightenment has no history of violence but he did wander around Tibet in the nude and make fun of people who tried to make fun of him for not bothering wearing clothes in the freezing temperatures but he apparently was a master of Tummo (inner fire) meditation and that kept him warm at all times
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pachoo
Witchakookoo



Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 7,135
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: Tantrika] 6
#26727864 - 06/08/20 12:23 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tantrika said:
Quote:
The Blind Ass said:
Quote:
lowbrow said: Witchcraft is no more fake than psychiatry. That’s a fact.
In fact, modern psychiatry took a lot from witchcraft.
Carl Jung is huge among occultists.
Like Alchemy? how similar/dissimilar is it too witchcraft (which btw I’m not familiar with)
Alchemy was a big one, but also a lot of stuff out of Hermetic Mysticism
Witches are real -- the witch hunts were a falsification and demonization of people tho and while modern anti-racism depends on being able to produce documented instances of racist behaviour from people the witch hunts were about punishing people for fabricated claims -- a married man who found a single woman attractive could cause her death by claiming she had magically seduced his attention away from his wife a dude with few friends and a large garden of mind-altering substances would be tried and killed on the basis of presumed poisonings

Not even just psychiatry...Can we just talk about the 'witches' brews' that were used in the past that brought about some modern medicines? Or even the fact that it was the witches/Shamans/Pagans/Medicine Women and Men who use psychedelics in the first place to converse with spirit and heal traumas? I guess it's all just a little bit of hocus pocus anyways. 

I just have to cackle a bit when people talk smack about witchcraft as if they only thing it entails is flying on a broom stick or summoning some sort of elemental spell/hex/whatever from their viewpoint.
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sui
I love you.



Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 31,853
Loc: Cali, Contra Costa Co.
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: pachoo] 3
#26727941 - 06/08/20 01:24 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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i love you people.
-------------------- "There is never a wrong note, bend it." Jimi Hendrix
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper


Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,377
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Last seen: 3 days, 23 hours
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: sui]
#26728125 - 06/08/20 05:19 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
even just psychiatry...Can we just talk about the 'witches' brews' that were used in the past that brought about some modern medicines? Or even the fact that it was the witches/Shamans/Pagans/Medicine Women and Men who use psychedelics in the first place to converse with spirit and heal traumas? I guess it's all just a little bit of hocus pocus anyways. 
sure, those things paved the way for real medicine. Now we have it. I promise you you are better off getting a culture done to see specifically what kind of infection you have so that you can have a specific antibiotic regimen tailored to that infection rather than having a poultice of tee tree oil or whatever spread all of your wound. The latter is probably better than nothing but it aint as good as a real anitbiotic
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: morrowasted] 1
#26728166 - 06/08/20 05:50 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Atropine and scopolamine are still used regularly in modern medicine I believe.
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Sugabearcrisp
Not Your Average Bear



Registered: 10/14/19
Posts: 12,047
Loc: maybe I had too much, too fast
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: Brian Jones]
#26728187 - 06/08/20 06:08 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Brian Jones said:
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Sugabearcrisp said: Well the neonazi aryan brotherhood controls significant parts of the drug trade inside and out of prisons. One might expect a few members to seek out drug manuafacture information found here.
https://www.salon.com/2013/03/19/inside_the_aryan_brotherhoods_prison_heroin_empire_partner/
In related news pyschedelics are not a silver bullet to fix people, as Saratonin eloquently explained.

In prison yes. Outside there is some AB for sure. There are biker gangs running meth and some other things, and there is racism yes, but outlaw bikers are seldom AB.
So we agree, whether AB, nazi lowrider, skinhead or just racist biker there is a portion of that circle that overlaps with the drug trade.
When i was active in the online MJ communities 15+ years ago there were always a few members flashing symboligy behind their bud pictures, stars and bars or more overt nazi, %er or the shamrock of the AB.
I would go further and say that the drug trade and organized crime in general has always been built on racial exclusion. You can't be a white latin king, crip or blood just like you can't be a made man in the mafia unless 100% italian. Even the hasidic jews were running molly through their racially pure network.
I think there is a false belief that soft drugs are only made and sold by tie dye hippies who arent racist, when the reality is that as long as profits are to be had there will be unsavory players and things divide along race and culture.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: Sugabearcrisp] 6
#26728235 - 06/08/20 06:43 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Theres also a false notion that leftwing people cant be racist, xenophobic, homophobic or transphobic. They can be blisteringly so, often hidden behind flimsy makeshift constructions of false justification.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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D3_Myc
Weeb Trash



Registered: 05/06/18
Posts: 4,399
Loc: Year Zero
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: Sugabearcrisp] 5
#26728245 - 06/08/20 06:49 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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All the narratives lately feel very anti white, even from the left. Everyone likes to say, imagine what it feels like to be black... as far as I know most blacks have never been jumped, for simply trying to walk through a neighborhood. I’ve experienced nothing but anti white racism growing up in a predominantly hispanic and black neighborhoods.
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper


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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: psi]
#26728249 - 06/08/20 06:55 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
psi said: Atropine and scopolamine are still used regularly in modern medicine I believe.
yeah so atropine is given when peoples hearts are pumping too slow to effectively deliver oxygen to the brain and such. In that case you really want tk be getting the pure chem IV, not sipping nightshade extracts. It is cool that people figured out plants that have useful drugs in them all i am saying is that we actually know what the specific constituents of the plants are that work, why they work, and when they are most likely to be helpful. We have come a long way. And it is really obvious like i said when you get into infectious disease. We can take a blood sample, see exactly what kind of infection you have, and give you a specific antibiotic known to work against it and also known to be safe for you given your other medical conditions and medications used. It is a far cry from rubbing antibiotic poultices on wounds but again... it is cool that they were trying and sometimes having success. If i had lived 300 years ago maybe i would have been one of those people since i am the type that is into healing and such. But Since i live in the year 2020 i just recognize that isnt the most effective way to be a healer anymore
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper


Registered: 10/30/09
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: morrowasted]
#26728272 - 06/08/20 07:06 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
D3monic said: All the narratives lately feel very anti white, even from the left. Everyone likes to say, imagine what it feels like to be black... as far as I know most blacks have never been jumped, for simply trying to walk through a neighborhood. I’ve experienced nothing but anti white racism growing up in a predominantly hispanic and black neighborhoods.
except the narrative you just gave, which is um, extremely common. I also got beat up by the black kids in middle school. When i grew up i realized it was because of how relatively lucky i am but didnt realize i was at the time, but i will digress.
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Ovoidhunter
Buttery Crescent



Registered: 09/17/16
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: morrowasted] 4
#26728277 - 06/08/20 07:10 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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You were extremely lucky you got beat up by black kids? Are you saying they beat you up because of how privileged you were as a white person and that it was cool looking back on it?
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pirate-blues


Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 13,655
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: D3_Myc] 3
#26728280 - 06/08/20 07:12 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Alternative medicine that works is just called medicine .
Quote:
D3monic said: All the narratives lately feel very anti white, even from the left. Everyone likes to say, imagine what it feels like to be black... as far as I know most blacks have never been jumped, for simply trying to walk through a neighborhood. I’ve experienced nothing but anti white racism growing up in a predominantly hispanic and black neighborhoods.
lol yeah, because no one's been fully lynched and murdered just for the crime of being black before . You ever hear of sun down towns? Google it. Just because those places no longer have a legal basis for segregation doesn't mean that some don't still practice it. I'm sorry you got singled out and beaten up due to your race. That's not cool, it's not right, but a lot of what BLM is fighting for addresses the issues of disproportionate crime in the black community.
I don't get why that makes the protests anti-white, if anything it's anti-police state, anti establishment. There are a fuck ton of white people at these rallies, in some towns there are ONLY white people at these rallies. I just don't understand this mentality that these protests are anti-white - just because the spotlight is off of us for one second and we're trying to advocate for someone other than ourselves doesn't mean that the movement is 'anti-white'. If anything it's fully inclusive of white people, and it's fighting for things that will benefit them.
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper


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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: Ovoidhunter] 4
#26728291 - 06/08/20 07:18 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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No i was extremely lucky to not have been raised in the kind of environment that is conducive to turning 12 year olds into bullies. These days i treat people of all ages in the ED including kids. Hypothetical kid comes in a bruised up, supposedly "fell down the stairs". Ask the family to leave, get the real scoop. The kid has no father at home, older brother is a drug dealer who beats him and runs the house, uncle raped him repeatedly. Time to write a cps report. Happens at least once a month and it is usually poor minorities. Yeah, that kid is a bully, and i would have been too, but i wasnt because i am lucky. I was able to get over the bullying and have a great life, some of these kids are never able to get over their childhood abuse. And yes it happens with white kids too, it is more a problem of intergenerational poverty but that problem is much worse in the black community and i believe the reason is that they are just coming out of centuries of oppression in the last 50 years. It takes time and proactivity to heal all of that. I can understand why white people who went through these problems feel left out to dry
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: pirate-blues]
#26728292 - 06/08/20 07:19 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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D3monic:
Congratulations - Then you grew up behind enemy lines, just like other minority groups.
One would expect inter-minority solidarity under such circumstances.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Ovoidhunter
Buttery Crescent



Registered: 09/17/16
Posts: 2,016
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: morrowasted] 2
#26728300 - 06/08/20 07:24 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Their schools have been severely underfunded forever and black communities are usually poorer. Leading to more crime and lack of opportunity and overall discontent with life probably. Thats real.
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MrBlueYoMind
Don't do drugs (Without me)

Registered: 04/27/11
Posts: 3,753
Last seen: 1 month, 25 days
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: morrowasted] 1
#26728305 - 06/08/20 07:29 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said:
Carl Jung is huge among occultists. psychiatry is bullshit too, shifting the goalpost doesnt work. If you are having a heart attack i can save your life much more effectively than a hoodoo practitioner. If you are having one and you would prefer not to die it is in your best interests to accept that fact, but i certainly wont try and force you to. That is all
It's racist when you place white western science above African medicine/healing practices & Black Magic. You must use your privilege to actively work to decolonize science and your white supremacist mind.
In this video, the ladies offer an example of a tribal dance than can cause lightning to strike. The crowd showed their true nazi colors by saying it isn't true. This is a perfect example of white supremacy and the colonization of science in effect. You must consider their perspective as equally true to your perspective or you are racist.
Edited by MrBlueYoMind (06/08/20 08:40 AM)
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper


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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: MrBlueYoMind] 1
#26728334 - 06/08/20 07:48 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I am not judging people for "doing magic" or alt medicine, like i said hoodoo specifically became popular during and after slave days bc they did not have access to western medicine. The popularity of hoodoo in the usa is actually another manifestation racism. What i am saying is just saying if they have a serious illness want to not die they may want to consider opting for western medicine now that it is an option. I am happy to save the life of anyone of all colors, uninsured or not. If you wanna keep doing pentagrams and poultices... by all means... the ED will still be there for ya when the shit hits the fan
Believe it or not learning sensitivity to other peoples beliefs about medicine is a major part of our training. We are taught to allow people to do whatever makes them comfortable- bring in a medicine man, accupunturist, whatever. You can do that in the hospital (usually). But we are also gonna try to talk you into taking the medicine that we have evidence will work for your condition, and we will do it bc we want to save your life, not bc we are judging you for using a medicine man
Edited by morrowasted (06/08/20 07:55 AM)
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MrBlueYoMind
Don't do drugs (Without me)

Registered: 04/27/11
Posts: 3,753
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Re: Lucy in the Sky with Nazis (Or why this forum is filled with racist shitheads even though it's about shrooms) [Re: morrowasted] 1
#26728408 - 06/08/20 08:33 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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If you actively believe western medicine is superior to hoodoo then you are a racist according to the lady in the video. You literally said your way is superior(more effective=better=superior), you don't have to actively say hoodoo is inferior or people who practice it less capable healers for it to be inferred.
What Asante practices where he hammers nails into a statue seems pretty consistent with hoodoo type practices, which suggests that hoodoo is a type of African spiritism.
You'd save the life of every color, that's the classic "I have a black friend" response isn't it? I'm not even suggesting that you wouldn't treat everybody with equal care.
Is the belief that someone can do a dance that makes lightning strike equally valid science as say an MDMA synthesis? If not, then you are a racist according to women in the video.
You don't believe in hoodoo correct? There are people who believe in hoodoo and don't believe in western medicine. Would it bother you if everyone around you started believing in hoodoo and stopped believing in western medicine(regardless of skin color, all races)? Then you might be considered racist to these African women, who laid out their case that white western medicine is colonized/racist by ignoring African tribal/spirit beliefs.
I'm pretty sure you DO think hoodoo is a less effective healing method than what you practice. Otherwise why wouldn't you offer hoodoo and accupuncture to people who have never been exposed to it? You only offer it to people who request it correct? Someone doesn't come in with knee pain and you say "We can give you naproxen or stick 20 needles in strategic places all over your body or we can chant over this doll/statue and stick pins into that, which would you prefer?"
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