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A.k.a
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Crosses via spore/myc mixing
#26716306 - 06/03/20 09:46 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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I’m not sure if this belongs here or cult, figured I’d get way more solid input here.
So I have a syringe with 11 varieties mixed in it, the idea being to have multiple people use the same syringe and see what we all get.
To me it seems like the best way to get crosses would be to let the germ plate grow in before taking transfers so each colony has the chance to link with the other colonies. Is that correct or does that happen early on and so it won’t matter when the wedge is taken??
This is the germ plate now.
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Kmacmo
The aborted pin
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Re: Crosses via spore/myc mixing [Re: A.k.a]
#26716365 - 06/03/20 10:15 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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This is interesting, can say panaeolus be crossed with cubensis for example? I've only experience with cubensis, but other variety will require different substrates and conditions so not sure how this will work out. Anyway I'm curious too see your results
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A.k.a
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Re: Crosses via spore/myc mixing [Re: Kmacmo]
#26716398 - 06/03/20 10:30 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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No I’m sure if species crossing worked it’d be huge.
To clarify these are 11 cube varieties.
There’s a thread in cult about it called “giveaway sort of/traveling syringe” or something similar. There’s like five of these syringes going around.
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Strainsfordaze
Registered: 05/10/18
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Re: Crosses via spore/myc mixing [Re: A.k.a]
#26716796 - 06/03/20 01:09 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Well if there were any crosses that would happen, it would happen during hyphal anastomosis when germlings fuse and exchange nuclear information. So as soon as you get mycelial growth your good to go.
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PTreeDish
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Cross-species hybridization can be done, but it's difficult. I believe RR was able to do a sp cross using rattlesnake venom on agar to coerce the two sp to join. This process has been patented in commercial cordycep crossing. There are other methods as well.
I have the funds to buy some venom if I could nail down a species cross that would be worth the time and had a market.
In the 2nd pic, note how the successful diploid crossing on the left yields a new sector in the middle which is a cross of the two while the culture on the right failed to cross.
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vinnie boombotz
Reggaejunkiejew
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Re: Crosses via spore/myc mixing [Re: PTreeDish]
#26737961 - 06/11/20 08:59 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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How about Ovoid crossed with Cubensis. I heard they're the most closely related of the psilocybes. It would be pretty cool if you developed Cold resistant cube type of mushroom that's easy to grow. If 2 different and highly sencenced types of myc were placed together, would they be more likely to hybridize? Or does that only happen way earlier when one spore meets another?
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crabs
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How about allenii and ps. cyanescens? I've got spores off of some beautiful, big, weighty and potent allenii, that I'd love to cross with these teenie cyans that are extremely strong but never get very big (though I expect that might be due to their environment). The two patches grow 10 feet from each other. Fingers crossed it happens naturally! Hah.
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PTreeDish
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It's not a bad idea, but I want to invest into R&D into a project with commercial viability and isn't illegal. If that weren't an issue, I'd probably be using genetically modified yeast to produce pure psilocybin and it's analogues at-scale and then sharing the tek back with the community. Especially because of how beneficial I think psi can be for treating a variety of mental health issues.
I'm currently interested in and researching opportunities to breed new mushroom strains for medicine, food or some other equally practical use.
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vinnie boombotz
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Re: Crosses via spore/myc mixing [Re: PTreeDish]
#26739267 - 06/12/20 10:45 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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They're Have A morphine producing yeast now
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Solipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist
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So the question in the OP was about mixing spores of varieties of a species , not interspecific hybridization.
From what I heard very recently and i must have forgotten that detail, this is how Rustywhyte was created (spore mixing).
I was thinking about the very same method lately. I figure it's not so great if you are trying to cross varieties which are too similar, because you can't tell them apart as you are selecting purely visually from the result. Another downside if you are a commercial breeder might be that as it is a MS grow, you do get to see a bunch of strains with meh quality genetics which you won't be selecting anyway and it takes up space/time/resources etc.
The upside though seems that you get the competition and natural selection you normally get from MS germination & grow which you don't get from mating monokaryons (mon-mon) you selected based on measured growth rate etc but otherwise blindly. Plus you know it's a fruiting strain since you are selecting fruits.
It seems to me it should in theory be well-suited for the sort of breeding people here do. Not the kind of commercial breeding towards a high-performing isolate since we go so much through spore-sharing with actives, so no big breeding program for performance but a more simple one to get nice traits, with a lot of the work being the stabilization.
And yes: for the RW variety it does apply that it was selected for very noticeable traits.
I'm working on a non-cube inter-variety cross and for me it wouldn't work because I want to be sure that i actually made a cross and cannot be confident enough from visual traits. They may be too similar looking, i do not know yet what influence my particular conditions have... and frankly I just don't have the experience with the species yet.
Something else mentioned in the thread though: mating studies basically. I have similar questions about e.g. allenii and Ps. cyanescens although not exactly those. Daring and usually not likely to succeed I expect. But if you were to do it IMO you would really want to know if actual crossing took place, so mixing spores would not be a useful way to do that. To first answer the question if it can be done, i would say you'd want to set up a clear experiment putting a sample of each on agar (one of them being monokaryotic) and seeing if you get mating.
I was a bit of a fool and thought the result would tell you if 2 species are conspecific or not (actually the same), however mating studies alone cannot do this.
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A.k.a
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Re: Crosses via spore/myc mixing [Re: Solipsis]
#26748436 - 06/16/20 07:52 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah it’s 11 cube varieties.
I took a couple random transfers then dropped a chunk into a jar a week ago. Everything surprisingly came out clean right away.
This is gizmos experiment, there’s a thread in cult about it called giveaway traveling syringe or something like that. It’s got the other couple people with the syringes and the list of what spores are involved if anybody wants to check it out or have one of the syringes sent to them next.
Kinda fizzled out so far for some reason but there’s a few of us doing it.
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gizmo1
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Re: Crosses via spore/myc mixing [Re: A.k.a]
#26749286 - 06/16/20 03:03 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Just checking in to see what people say/keep up on the discussion. Anyone interested in joining heres the link to marketplace thread where you can sign up there are currently syringes ready to be shipped. Shameless plug lmao.
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Solipsis
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Re: Crosses via spore/myc mixing [Re: A.k.a]
#26749805 - 06/16/20 06:35 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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OK sounds like fun. Curious how much variation in appearance you really see.. comparing it to variation you see in any MS grow then too ofc.
You are talking about giving colonies time to link up in the OP. But if you have 11 varieties together in the syringe they are mingled on a microscopic level, the spores.
Not sure if you are talking about putting a highly dilute drop of spore liquid on agar and spreading it all over the plate but otherwise you can expect an incredibly complex mating going on, basically an orgy. Assume for argument's sake that you got equal numbers of every variety (which will unfortunately not be the case in practice)... then the odds that the myc growing out of a single spore encounters myc that came from a different variety (oversimplified) would be 10 to 1.
It's more complicated than that tho:
The odds will soon be highest that the myc coming out of a single spore, looking to mate and potentially cross.. encounters an already mated mycelium. It would be 10 to 1 that this already mated myc is made by at least one parent thats a different variety, and just a little less i think that both parents are different.
Unless it's all the same variety with the same genes: the already mated myc can done a nuclei (set of genetics with it) to the myc that was just borne from a spore.
aaaanyway:
yeah this would create many islands of myc that i think can be really very tiny (microscopic even i think). Its not that dissimilar from regular MS but there would be much less incompatible mating so more strains, more of those islands.
then i think you get some sort of gridlock but the strains that arent blocked too much can grow the easiest - if some strains are favored by this they may start growng relatively exponentially faster and become one of the winners.
But these would all be different crosses, whats that.. 55 possible combinations? (Triangular number series)
So these will not link together but compete, and as I described they would be separate islands competing starting from a microscopic scale already.
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gizmo1
Registered: 06/15/11
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Re: Crosses via spore/myc mixing [Re: Solipsis]
#26750248 - 06/16/20 10:27 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Solipsis said: OK sounds like fun. Curious how much variation in appearance you really see.. comparing it to variation you see in any MS grow then too ofc.
You are talking about giving colonies time to link up in the OP. But if you have 11 varieties together in the syringe they are mingled on a microscopic level, the spores.
Not sure if you are talking about putting a highly dilute drop of spore liquid on agar and spreading it all over the plate but otherwise you can expect an incredibly complex mating going on, basically an orgy. Assume for argument's sake that you got equal numbers of every variety (which will unfortunately not be the case in practice)... then the odds that the myc growing out of a single spore encounters myc that came from a different variety (oversimplified) would be 10 to 1.
It's more complicated than that tho:
The odds will soon be highest that the myc coming out of a single spore, looking to mate and potentially cross.. encounters an already mated mycelium. It would be 10 to 1 that this already mated myc is made by at least one parent thats a different variety, and just a little less i think that both parents are different.
Unless it's all the same variety with the same genes: the already mated myc can done a nuclei (set of genetics with it) to the myc that was just borne from a spore.
aaaanyway:
yeah this would create many islands of myc that i think can be really very tiny (microscopic even i think). Its not that dissimilar from regular MS but there would be much less incompatible mating so more strains, more of those islands.
then i think you get some sort of gridlock but the strains that arent blocked too much can grow the easiest - if some strains are favored by this they may start growng relatively exponentially faster and become one of the winners.
But these would all be different crosses, whats that.. 55 possible combinations? (Triangular number series)
So these will not link together but compete, and as I described they would be separate islands competing starting from a microscopic scale already.
The idea is to simply not self the spores anymore. It's part of how I made the GATZ cross which happened to make it into the mix also. Two cube spores meet up and make a strain. When doing GATZ I used parents that were dissimilar. That way if the crosses were successful it was obvious. Or at the least noticeable. It may sound like it won't work on paper but when it came down to it I have had success with it. Regardless the point of this experiment was to get people involved to increase the chances of something weird happening and seeing people results. If crosses aren't made then they aren't made. It's an experiment. I did try to mix as many spores as I could from mushrooms that show obvious phenos. Like gold and rust spores. PE and PEU spores which have obvious mutant phenos. I used AA+ which displays leuistic pheno and a couple other things I don't remember exactly what was used right now. Give me a minute and I'll post a couple pics of one of the mushies that came from a result of my past shenanigans.
Edit: Just saw that you weren't talking to me but I already posted this here it can stay lmao sorry for the confusion.
Edited by gizmo1 (06/16/20 10:45 PM)
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gizmo1
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Re: Crosses via spore/myc mixing [Re: gizmo1]
#26750264 - 06/16/20 10:42 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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So here's the results of a project I had going for a long time. This was GATZ crossed with PE GATZ was GT, AA+, Mexican Tuluum, and Z strain. Crosses were done one at a time using various methods.
I still have A swab or two floating around and got a couple TCs out there with swabs so the genetics aren't completely lost not yet but I never finished the work on it and never stabilized so I didn't spread spores from the cross far and wide.
Unfortunately I lost most of the pics from the work I did and I haven't had much success from the swabs I took so I'm hoping boogie or someone else that has a swab comes through with some success some day.
If not I'll probably start over from scratch I don't have a lot of interests in cubes anymore I'm starting to move away from them but I'd hate for all my work to be lost and hoping to see some cool stuff from this new project.
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A.k.a
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Re: Crosses via spore/myc mixing [Re: gizmo1]
#26750987 - 06/17/20 08:14 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Those caps are awesome man. Must’ve took like eight months at least doing them one at a time.
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gizmo1
Registered: 06/15/11
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Re: Crosses via spore/myc mixing [Re: A.k.a]
#26751857 - 06/17/20 02:34 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
A.k.a said: Those caps are awesome man. Must’ve took like eight months at least doing them one at a time.
Not sure how long it took but I was younger had a strong work ethic and alot less contamination. Seems like I made easy work of it back then. Now I think about it and seems like it would be a hot sweaty mess full of trich lmao. Idk what's changed in my mental since then but I'm not quite the same person. That's where you and the shroomery fam come in.
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