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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: MagicMush123]
    #26713926 - 06/02/20 02:16 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:
do not think that 1-time donations necessarily point to support of a community that is troubled over time
if this is step 1 of starting an ongoing donation/grant/scholarship program, much more respect tho




Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
...Im sure a million dollars would go a long away.
I guess you missed the part where it says a "committee of current and former Ravens players will decide which local programs will benefit from the contribution"? Im sure a lot of these athletes have first have knowledge how to best utilize the money being donated as they usually grew up poor themselves in poor communities...




For better clarification here
am not saying that a million dollar donation is a bad thing
but that it unfortunately won't go as far as the number makes it sound

this was something that hit me when Akon was talking about his charity work in Africa
"a billion dollars ain't shit" when you are trying to uplift communities
given, conditions in Africa are being advanced more considerably by bringing electricity to areas that never had it
but has Flint Michigan even had its water problem dealt with, yet?

if, in comparison, this is a first-year thing
and the athletes can find direction for ongoing scholarship programs,
or a system that provides startup capital for potential business owners
and the intention is to give a million towards such causes each year
that has a lot greater capacity to assist in a community setting where individuals have been facing problems for an ongoing duration

in contrast to something like Covid, which will hopefully not be requiring donations by this time next year
and receives more benefit in the form of the (larger) lump sum


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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: MagicMush123] * 1
    #26713959 - 06/02/20 02:31 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
Thanks for the info, ill give those a read when i have a chance. I didn't realize that i was hating on poor people. But i guess i could ask you the same question since you were the one who originally brought up rich white people in the police hate thread



Disdain for the poor is often an unconscious process, but it's as simple as the persistent belief that people are wealthy because they worked hard and others are poor because they were lazy - despite the fact that every study I've ever seen concludes that the biggest predictor of wealth is already being rich.

I know that I have mentioned the dynamics of wealth and whiteness amid my extended analysis of police violence and the current rebellion - but you decided to focus on it in the comment I responded to: "So much for the idea that wealthy white people dont support their communities. "

Why was my claim that "we know that poor communities and communities of colour practice more mutual aid and support than do wealthy white communities - partially because they have to" the only part you decided to challenge?


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: qman] * 2
    #26713968 - 06/02/20 02:35 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Why is charity even needed to begin with in the wealthiest nation in human history?  It's a disgrace when billionaires 'donate' money that should have been taxed in the first place.



Well, I believe mutual aid (distinct from charity) to be an admirable and beneficial practice that should be widely adopted in every community - I'd rather not be in the position where I have to rely on the charity of billionaires or the state for the means of existence - but I understand and agree with your point.


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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: MagicMush123]
    #26714024 - 06/02/20 02:59 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
Lol. Poor people take from charities while rich people donate to them. Im pretty sure a lot of these protesters are poor. And im pretty sure you said that poor people were looting stores. They also destroyed their various cities "protesting". How many millions will it cost to rebuild, and whose money will they use to rebuild it? It sounds like poor people cost a lot of money and that cost is paid for by the rich




Poor people cost a lot of money? You know who has all the money, right?


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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26714121 - 06/02/20 03:32 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
Thanks for the info, ill give those a read when i have a chance. I didn't realize that i was hating on poor people. But i guess i could ask you the same question since you were the one who originally brought up rich white people in the police hate thread



Disdain for the poor is often an unconscious process, but it's as simple as the persistent belief that people are wealthy because they worked hard and others are poor because they were lazy - despite the fact that every study I've ever seen concludes that the biggest predictor of wealth is already being rich.

I know that I have mentioned the dynamics of wealth and whiteness amid my extended analysis of police violence and the current rebellion - but you decided to focus on it in the comment I responded to: "So much for the idea that wealthy white people dont support their communities. "

Why was my claim that "we know that poor communities and communities of colour practice more mutual aid and support than do wealthy white communities - partially because they have to" the only part you decided to challenge?



I realize many rich people were born rich but i personally believe many of the poor are the result of their life decisions. But either way i felt that you were unjustly promoting poor and colored people  at the expense of whites. When they just destroyed their own city and like a day later a rich white guy donated a million dollars to social justice. Btw, i didn't see anything in your links about colored people being more charitable than white people

Clarification but this is also responding to tantrika as well
Just to clarify i realize 1 million dollars isnt much, i dont think he should have a statue in his honor and i dont think his donation should make front page news. I just read that wealthy white people generally dont help their communities and today i saw that he donated 1 million to social justice because of the protests.  So i thought i would share an example of a  rich white guy donating money to help his community


Edited by MagicMush123 (06/02/20 03:48 PM)


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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: MagicMush123] * 5
    #26714659 - 06/02/20 06:56 PM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
I realize many rich people were born rich but i personally believe many of the poor are the result of their life decisions.



Okay but you need to understand that this personal belief of yours is based in anti-poor bias and is patently untrue. The most talented disadvantaged children have a lower chance of academic and early career success than the least talented affluent children - and that's a fact.


Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
But either way i felt that you were unjustly promoting poor and colored people  at the expense of whites. When they just destroyed their own city and like a day later a rich white guy donated a million dollars to social justice. Btw, i didn't see anything in your links about colored people being more charitable than white people



It wasn't explicitly stated in the studies I linked, but it can be extrapolated. If we know that poor communities practice more mutual aid and support than wealthy ones, and if we know that communities of colour are disproportionately likely to be poor, then we can conclude that communities of colour practice more mutual aid and support than white communities. That doesn't mean certain ethnicities are more charitable - it means poor people are more charitable and certain ethnicities are disproportionately poor.

But once again let's examine why you feel pointing out legitimate disparities between wealthy communities (disproportionately white) and poor communities (disproportionately POC) is an attack on rich white people that needs to be defended?

It was also reported this week that Floyd Mayweather offered to pay for George Floyd’s funeral and services; so why did you decide to defend just the rich white man for his charitable giving - especially in the same paragraph where you seemingly group all the poor and POC into one group that doesn't deserve any positive promotion because "they just destroyed their own city"?


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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 2
    #26715321 - 06/03/20 12:18 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

So I've been seeing this video make the rounds recently - framed as an example of 'Good Protesters' stopping the 'Bad Rioters' - and I want to provide my perspective because I think it provides a good example of how the attempt to gain legitimacy by self-policing for 'Bad Rioters' quickly spirals into a self-defeating paralysis.




Is setting off a firework an act of violence or riot? In my experience fireworks, flares, and smoke bombs are as common as megaphones at protests - and just like a megaphone they have a nonviolent function of getting attention. I concede that they can be used for more, but I don't see anything in that video to connect the person who lit the firework with rioting or violence.

On the other hand, isn't throwing a firework into a car occupied by a person significantly more dangerous? Yet the two people who did this are being celebrated for keeping the protest "peaceful" - and not because their actions were nonviolent and made everyone there safer but because it fell on the right side of the arbitrary Good/Bad distinction.

You might be surprised at just how ridiculous the concept of "peaceful" protest can become.

At the Occupy protests there were self-appointed "marshals" who would physically push people back onto the sidewalk if we tried to walk on the road during a "peaceful" march. That simple act of civil disobedience was regarded as too confrontational to be allowed, and so people who should have been standing in solidarity instead turned into cops. It's a literal police tactic - kind of the opposite to an agent provocateur where you convince people to do nothing. If they weren't on the payroll, they should have been.

A couple stories...

Sabotage was a way of life in Earth First! of the late 1980s - perhaps starting earlier, but certainly well underway by 1988, there was an influx of federal agents (and perhaps private agents hired by public relations firms) into the group. Coincidentally, or maybe not, Nonviolence activists who did not subscribe to the Earth First! credo, "No compromise in defense of mother earth", also started appearing and arguing against sabotage and other tactics that they considered violent - like running. From 1988 to 1991, Earth First! went from being a revolutionary group that was genuinely wild and dangerous to the corporations raping the earth into a toothless poodle competing with the Sierra Club for strokes from society's masters.

In at least one instance during the White Train anti-nuclear movement of the early 1980s, it was later revealed that one of the Nonviolence activists was actually an undercover agent for the Portland police. This kindly looking, white-haired man delighted in explaining how almost any action designed to stop the White Train (carrying nuclear warheads) was violent, and hence the only usable tactic was silently witnessing the passing of the train. His tactics for manipulating the groups involved were indistinguishable from the tactics used by Nonviolence activists against Earth First!

Why don't Nonviolence activists preach their gospel to the military, the police, the capitalists, and other violent and oppressive groups? Instead they focus their efforts on purifying groups that are working for social change. In no case that I know of have they targeted a violent group and convinced it to be not violent. Instead they target groups that are already not violent and imbue them with a set of rules that reduce their effectiveness.

Solidarity among all of us - protesters, rioters, looters, everyone - is essential if we will ever succeed in our struggle for justice and equality for all. A united front is one of our greatest strengths and one of the things the ruling class fears the most.

Trying to win respect and legitimacy from the ruling class by playing into their Good/Bad divide will only win us relief until they've finished mopping up all those we've implicitly condoned state violence against - and then they'll go back to ignoring the "peaceful" protest like they always have. Unprovoked assault should probably be the line we refuse to cross - not property destruction.

The only reason the state was willing to talk with MLK was because the alternatives were Malcolm X and Huey P Newton. Nonviolent and militant movements grant each other legitimacy - nonviolent movements benefit from the pressure on the state that militant movements provide and militant movements benefit from the peaceful alternative that nonviolent movements provide. Without militancy, we are too easily ignored - without nonviolence, the only direction is escalation. Stronger together.


--------------------


Edited by shivas.wisdom (06/03/20 02:02 AM)


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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #26715428 - 06/03/20 01:25 AM (1 month, 10 days ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:

You might be surprised at just how ridiculous the concept of "peaceful" protest can become.




I notice much of the TV news repeatedly mention "peaceful protests" - so often I suspect they may have an agenda.

The riots are a fascinating view into the hearts and minds of US citizens who hate America.

And that's OK! You can hate America - even if you live here! But stop hiding your hatred. Just admit it! Don't be chicken. Admit your hate!


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OfflineStable Genius
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26715885 - 06/03/20 08:07 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Quote:

Stable Genius said:
George Floyd gets murdered = I best go grab a colour tv

Do you see a problem here? I do.




What percentage of the people who hit the streets do you think were looters?




If I had to guess I'd say probably less than 0.1%.

Not everyone chooses to burn shit down or thieve from honest people when they have a problem with the cops.



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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26715923 - 06/03/20 08:32 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Nah was just giving an example of a white guy helping the community


--------------------
Obviously you don't know who the fuck I am. The names Cyrus, CYRUS. And I don't give a fuck who you are

Iam delusional and like to post fictional statements and nothing I say should be taken seriously


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OfflineSulfurshelfsean
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: MagicMush123] * 2
    #26716018 - 06/03/20 09:36 AM (1 month, 9 days ago)


Stop letting cops get away with murder.


--------------------


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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #26716718 - 06/03/20 02:43 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
I notice much of the TV news repeatedly mention "peaceful protests" - so often I suspect they may have an agenda.

The riots are a fascinating view into the hearts and minds of US citizens who hate America.

And that's OK! You can hate America - even if you live here! But stop hiding your hatred. Just admit it! Don't be chicken. Admit your hate!




That doesn't make any sense, and only suggests that you clearly have an agenda of your own.

I'll use Boston as an example because I watched it unfold, but the same pattern has happened for many of the country-wide protests. Boston had 30,000+ protesters Sunday night, police estimated that less than 200 committed any crimes. That's less 0.6%. The riots happened after the protest had ended and in separate locations from the actual protests, and many of them likely were not even at the original protest.

Should a peaceful protest of 30k+ people be ignored because a relatively minuscule group of opportunists seized a chance to get away with robbery and violence in the background? Why were the police aggressive to the peaceful group, but didn't even attempt to stop the looting?

It has nothing to do with hating America. Looking at the events and seeking to shift the focus away from a huge movement aimed to reform an enormous problem in our society seems pretty hateful towards America, though.


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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: feevers]
    #26717425 - 06/03/20 08:20 PM (1 month, 9 days ago)



--------------------
Obviously you don't know who the fuck I am. The names Cyrus, CYRUS. And I don't give a fuck who you are

Iam delusional and like to post fictional statements and nothing I say should be taken seriously


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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26718208 - 06/04/20 03:30 AM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Looks like Jimmy Dore and Cornel West agree with you about the violence/looting...



"Is looting wrong?"
"Looting's wrong.  You know what's also wrong?  When you steal $5 trillion."


--------------------
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26718251 - 06/04/20 04:11 AM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Hey Falcon, isn't Jimmy Dore pointing out that all those people in L.A. are not being violent?

All those protesters and no one able to harness the momentum, that's disappointing.

When I got belted up in the 80's there were 3 cases like mine all around the same time. Suddenly the cops were on the back foot as hardly anyone took the bastards to court then.

Focusing the spotlight on their actions and making them accountable forced change.

If burning shit down works, that's great, but I doubt it.


Edited by Stable Genius (06/04/20 08:19 AM)


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Stable Genius] * 2
    #26718462 - 06/04/20 08:29 AM (1 month, 8 days ago)



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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Stable Genius] * 1
    #26718584 - 06/04/20 10:06 AM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Hey Falcon, isn't Jimmy Dore pointing out that all those people in L.A. are not being violent?

All those protesters and no one able to harness the momentum, that's disappointing.

When I got belted up in the 80's there were 3 cases like mine all around the same time. Suddenly the cops were on the back foot as hardly anyone took the bastards to court then.

Focusing the spotlight on their actions and making them accountable forced change.

If burning shit down works, that's great, but I doubt it.




Cops have qualified immunity.  They have no consequences either personally or departmentally from lawsuits.  The respective cities pay the plaintiffs off and nothing changes, especially not department budgets.  Happens all the time.  Los Angeles regularly settles for 8 figures to make things disappear.


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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: ballsalsa] * 5
    #26719047 - 06/04/20 02:12 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

It’s been a whole day and not a single conservative or NRA member has spoken out against the military occupation they say the need a shitload of guns for . Fucking losers .


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Stable Genius] * 2
    #26719290 - 06/04/20 03:55 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Stable Genius said:
Hey Falcon, isn't Jimmy Dore pointing out that all those people in L.A. are not being violent?

All those protesters and no one able to harness the momentum, that's disappointing.

When I got belted up in the 80's there were 3 cases like mine all around the same time. Suddenly the cops were on the back foot as hardly anyone took the bastards to court then.

Focusing the spotlight on their actions and making them accountable forced change.

If burning shit down works, that's great, but I doubt it.



That's true.  I guess he's saying the protests are mostly peaceful, but if there's some looting, it's TINY compared to the looting that the billionaires are doing with their bought out Congress.


--------------------
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InvisibleballsalsaM
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Re: Police appreciation thread [Re: Psilynut2] * 2
    #26719380 - 06/04/20 04:41 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
It’s been a whole day and not a single conservative or NRA member has spoken out against the military occupation they say the need a shitload of guns for . Fucking losers .




It's truly disgusting, actually.  I won't hold my breath on help coming from that quarter.  Hell, most of them are cheering it on.


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