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Offlinegolmo
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Conflict between "set and setting" and the need to get healed (depression)
    #26713462 - 06/02/20 08:50 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Hello. I always hear how important is to do psychedelics in good set and setting,good mental health and good mood and to not do it when in a bad mood or depressed. but in the other hand I know that psychedelics (lets say shrooms for example) are good againts depression and can cure you from many bad mental states. so how can you be depressed and take shrooms but you are not allowed to take them when depressed?
what do you say about it?
I guess maybe just take a break for a weekend and start with a low dose?
I cant really express myself as I want in English but I think that you understand what I mean...
(I have in mind someone that is not in a good time in life {generally-hard work,money problems...} but know the benefits of shrooms and want to try them so what is the best way for him)


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InvisiblecoAsTal
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Re: Conflict between "set and setting" and the need to get healed (depression) [Re: golmo] * 3
    #26713492 - 06/02/20 09:03 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

In your meaning, "set" can mean "intent" as much as "good mood".

You don't have to have a perfect, care-free life to benefit from these medicines-- few of us would have ever tried them at all if that were the case!
But you do have to have positive intentions and a will to address and work through your problems honestly and openly within yourself.

I would definitely start with lower doses as well, so you can build the road to self improvement at a careful, steady pace.

:goodluck:


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I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the Heart's affections and the truth of Imagination--  John Keats

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Conflict between "set and setting" and the need to get healed (depression) [Re: coAsTal] * 2
    #26713590 - 06/02/20 09:47 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Beware of thinking of it like it is a Cure or silver bullet.  It’s an aid - a tool.  Good luck!


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: Conflict between "set and setting" and the need to get healed (depression) [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26713648 - 06/02/20 10:18 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

There's this stigma about psychedelics because it's a drug, it's easy to do. You simply take it. But by that logic therapy is easy to do. You just go.

  To be successful at this type of thing one must be willing to do hard work. It's not easy to get into these spaces. Especially if you are hitting the high doses. Stay safe.


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Offlinegolmo
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Re: Conflict between "set and setting" and the need to get healed (depression) [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26713788 - 06/02/20 11:13 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

thanks for replying. its not for me actually. I ask generally because I dont have many experiences in my record. Its for another family member which has never done psychedelics before but is interested and not againts it. I just wanted to know if its even thinkable.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Conflict between "set and setting" and the need to get healed (depression) [Re: golmo]
    #26713851 - 06/02/20 11:38 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

It can be either way.  Yes and or no.  Keep figuring it out till you have an appropriate sense of the answer.


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OfflinePsion
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Re: Conflict between "set and setting" and the need to get healed (depression) [Re: The Blind Ass] * 4
    #26714519 - 06/02/20 04:03 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

CoAstal hit it spot on - your intent is important here. The other part of mindset involves basically don't take them on a shitty day, mentally speaking. Obviously all days feel that way when depressed,  but I mean days when your mind has been recently been dragged down by fights with family or loved ones, deaths, or other big shocks. Give that crap a few days for the smoke to clear out.

Setting is the other vital half to a hopefully good trip, especially for a first timer with depression  each thing you do is like a little talisman that acts as a barrier, warding against bad trips and improving the odds of a successful healing one. Sorta like drawing a summoning circle if you will. The bigger the demon, the more likely it is to spot a flaw in your design and break through, causing trouble. Thankfully with a time limit in psychedelics case, and usually it's mostly mischievous imps than evil cambians.

Setting is easy though, if individual and slightly annoying, especially when depressed. Clean your room. ( or tripping place) this is a big one. Clean yourself and wear clean, loose, comfy clothing that preferably looks nice to you as well. This is an ENORMOUS one. Do this right before tripping to fall relaxed, and clean. Take a crap before the shower though. Get yourself clean inside and out, cause you don't want to feel grumbly bowels the whole time. Keep a easy to lift barf bucket, a big one, near your trip area in case of nausea. Sometimes it's hard to reach the restroom in time.

Obviously you probably want to set a couple days off ahead of time if possible, to keep bad things at work from cropping up. The day before, rest, eat tasty, nutritious meals, do fun, creative things to you that uplift you, and get A GOOD NIGHT'S SLEEP. Honestly, ones not enough. Do this a week ahead of time if possible, get a good solid 8 hours each day if you can... but sleep is incredibly important for a healthy mind, and psychedelics are very similar to the dream state in a lot of ways. Lots of personal symbolism and all that. Don't take visuals you see too literally, a lot of the time it's a metaphor, a puzzle to solve, because when people are told something they don't like to hear, they tend to shut it out, even if its themselves... but when they reach them conclusions on their own, they're much more willing to listen. Crazy, I know.

Have a playlist of positive music ready as well, maybe some easy to eat tasty snacks like fruit (healthy stuff that doesn't require cooking or preparation is advised unless they have a trip sitter to do the cooking for them... and don't feel bad if they don't feel like eating. Many people don't when tripping, especially when its not healthy fare. Processed food tastes like garbage to me, at least, when tripping. Cept lsd lol.

Best for them not to eat anything a few hours before the trip as well, so their stomach is empty. A big meal can dilute the potency, causing it to lengthen the trip while weakening it since its spread out through the meal and gets absorbed more slowly that way.

As for dosage, it depends on the person's personality really. Are they a neurotic kind of person who makes mountains out of molehills? Do they freak out and have mini mental breakdowns over what someone said that was no big deal? Does change,  even small changes, terrify them? Are they a conservative? You might want to aim small and work up slowly if so, and be extra careful with set and settings. Be sure to explain to them the importance of letting go, relaxing,  and having fun,  that they cannot be directly injured by what they see, only injure themselves and others by panicking, flailing around, etc. Treat the visions and visuals like an enlightening and entertaining, if sometimes scary movie tailored to them.

If they handle the unknown with ease, on the other hand, the kind of person to shake hands with a werewolf and talk shop with Merlin, they probably will do just fine with a higher dose as their first time.same advice applies, they just will handle the letting go of ordinary reality part far more easily .

The letting go is important, because essentially you're communicating with...something. your higher self, your subconscious, the gods, the wild divine...whatever it is, it wants to help you grow. But it doesn't appreciate an unruly student any more than any other teacher. Resist listening to it, fighting to stay in your tiny shelter and masks you call " reality " , and it will drag you kicking and screaming into the wider unknown universe. Better to let it gently take you by the hand and guide you to lessons and wonders than that!

After the trip is the afterglow and comedown... expect them to feel a bit tired afterward for a day, but more thoughtful than anything. They just had a LOT to think about after all! This feeling of disconnect from reality can last a while while the things they learned are processed. Let them know they can talk to you about what they are feeling if they want, and be open to what they say.

If you feel lost, just remember... there's an entire community at your fingertips to seek out here for guidance.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Conflict between "set and setting" and the need to get healed (depression) [Re: golmo]
    #26714755 - 06/02/20 05:52 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

your set includes age and relationship or roles if others are involved.

I'm starting to think that you may be in lockdown with your parents and brother, and the brother is younger.

When taking a younger brother into a drug experience, there is a lot of expectation and transference going on, which could make you responsible in some way for an undesirable outcome. Then even more pressure would ensue in the home etc. The potential of that will affect mindset poorly.

can you share your brother's age and if you are in a house or apartment with parents?


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: Conflict between "set and setting" and the need to get healed (depression) [Re: Psion]
    #26715487 - 06/03/20 12:10 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Great post, Psion. Perfect advice. Set, setting, dose :cookiemonster:

DJ Ed


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“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
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OfflinePsion
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Re: Conflict between "set and setting" and the need to get healed (depression) [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26715569 - 06/03/20 01:05 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Now if only my internet package would arrive already, I could have saved two painful hours typing that on my smartphone and done it in like 5 minutes with my 90 wpm finger magic at home. XD


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Offlinegolmo
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Re: Conflict between "set and setting" and the need to get healed (depression) [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26715818 - 06/03/20 05:35 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
your set includes age and relationship or roles if others are involved.

I'm starting to think that you may be in lockdown with your parents and brother, and the brother is younger.

When taking a younger brother into a drug experience, there is a lot of expectation and transference going on, which could make you responsible in some way for an undesirable outcome. Then even more pressure would ensue in the home etc. The potential of that will affect mindset poorly.

can you share your brother's age and if you are in a house or apartment with parents?




haha lol...cool guess but wrong. I considered it for my aunt which lives 4 hours by car away from me. I always hear when she talks with my mother how hard time she has.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Conflict between "set and setting" and the need to get healed (depression) [Re: golmo]
    #26716048 - 06/03/20 07:52 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

that's interesting,
what's your age diff with this aunt, and what is her living arrangement like, can you stay over without any problem?


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InvisibleKaruna
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Re: Conflict between "set and setting" and the need to get healed (depression) [Re: golmo]
    #26716159 - 06/03/20 08:48 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

It is a bit of a double edged sword, that psychedelics can in some cases help improve mental health yet people are rightly very cautious to recommend them to someone with mental health issues.

I think in general it comes down to the specific condition itself and familial history. An example is if you have a history of schizophrenia or suicidal tendencies in your family then it's not a good idea. If you have some form of trauma or existential depression then they could be helpful.

I personally prefer to wait until I'm feeling good before taking them as then it's less work and the higher your baseline, the higher you'll get lifted. If you go ahead, start with a low dose and see how you feel.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Conflict between "set and setting" and the need to get healed (depression) [Re: golmo]
    #26717605 - 06/03/20 07:52 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

An interesting question.

My advice would be to start low if you have depression. Shrooms tend to amplify thoughts thus being depressed while on shrooms might amplify those negative thoughts. However, there could be important self-reflection as well from the experience.

Some new users report having life-changing experiences on high doses as well.

Its not an area i know a lot about, so my advice I guess is to experiment with different dosages and strains and see what happens :shrug:


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OfflinePsion
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Re: Conflict between "set and setting" and the need to get healed (depression) [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26717839 - 06/03/20 09:24 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I had depression without really realizing it, other than knowing something was wrong with my life and I felt like I didn't belong here. Took a heroic dose and no regrets, but I'm the shake hands with a werewolf kind of person lol.

Was alone as well, but I've always been more comfortable being alone than with other people. Just another thing to keep in mind- if she is the same way, you may want to at least just give her some space, keep out of her way, and simply let her know you're in the area if she wants you. And then just keep an eye out from out of sight.

Obviously this is advice for a loner, introspective kind of person- other personalities have different touches required.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Conflict between "set and setting" and the need to get healed (depression) [Re: golmo] * 1
    #26718303 - 06/04/20 03:31 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Mindset is relative to your normal mindset, and is more about the stuff that's been happening the past few days, or what you've been filling your head with recently, than it is about whatever your normal mindset looks like. If relative to your normal mindset you're especially sad or depressed (relative to how sad/depressed you normally are), then you should maybe wait until a better time. But mindset is also about what you've been thinking about the past few days/weeks, what's going on in your life right now, that kind of thing. Having said that, psychedelics can occasionally cause suicidal behavior, so you should be mindful of the risks.

So think about what your baseline is, and then think about where you are relative to that, but also consider what you've been thinking about, reading, doing, and experiencing lately.

Still, tons of members here with even severe mental illness have done psychedelics safely and with good effects. But they're not a magical silver bullet. They won't just magically cure you or solve all your problems or anything. Sometimes tripping even makes some people more depressed. That's possible, but I think most people experience improvement more often.


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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Re: Conflict between "set and setting" and the need to get healed (depression) [Re: nooneman] * 1
    #26719076 - 06/04/20 12:22 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

A lot of great advice here. 

I’d like to add something important: Don’t rely on mushrooms to “cure” your problems. You will be disappointed. They can do amazing things but require the participant to do the work. If you take mushrooms and change nothing, the problems will remain. I made that mistake after my first trip blew me away (and subsequent trips didn’t heal me like I expected). But if you acknowledge that you need to put in work to heal, and take action, they can show you the way or simply spark your soul to aid in doing the work (just my experience).


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: Conflict between "set and setting" and the need to get healed (depression) [Re: golmo] * 2
    #26719365 - 06/04/20 02:31 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

golmo said:
you are not allowed to take them when depressed?




Who told you that?

With nearly lifelong Bipolar 2, if I DIDN'T take them when depressed I'd NEVER get the immense benefit they provide.

You can't control some of the aspects of set, but you can control how you approach them (with cheer, with good expectations, with confidence, etc.) and a good part of that is simply education.  Point her towards these forums and stand aside - it's what they're for. :cookiemonster:


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Offlinegolmo
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Re: Conflict between "set and setting" and the need to get healed (depression) [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26719392 - 06/04/20 02:51 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

thank you all for the good advice. I was generally asking to know if its ok to use psychedelic plants even when not in the best mental state. just because i heard it can amplify your feelings so i was afraid it will make things worse. i am now confident its safe to use in the right time with the right dose. anyway its easier for me to get san pedro then mushrooms. dont know what plant abd when we will take them.
thanks again every one.


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OfflinePsion
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Re: Conflict between "set and setting" and the need to get healed (depression) [Re: golmo]
    #26719513 - 06/04/20 03:59 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I think amplify is a good key word here. They help to amplify signals and thoughts that are normally lost. The thoughts we normally hide behind the masks of society and civility, the desires we ruthlessly crush as childish or impossible, the pains we ignore for reasons we no longer understand.

Shrooms and psychedelics can amplify these and other thoughts and signals, making them heard,impossible to ignore anymore. But you can turn this amplification to your advantage...by set and setting. Hence why they are so damn important, especially for those struggling with depression. They are your sword and shield. And this is why you go low and slow doseagewise with neurotic people, as they already are worrywarts who make mountains out of molehills with negative thoughts.


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