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jcby
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Pan Cyan Cultivation - A few questions
#26713175 - 06/02/20 06:54 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Hello fellow cultivators. I've grown quite a lot of cubes at this point and now I'm taking a shot at some Panaeolus Cyanascens. I've done my due diligence to do my research here on the forum and have spent quite a few hours getting up to speed on the requirements for this lovely specimen, however I do have a few questions for clarification as I've had trouble finding consistent information on a few things.
It seems like very, very few people attempt to start with a multispore -> grain inoculation. Would this fail completely or is there a good way to do it?
I've worked with agar previously so that isn't a problem but I am a little confused about isolating. What is the purpose of isolating if there's a good chance you will just end up with a non-fruiting isolate, other than to make sure the culture is clean of contaminants, and reducing competing strains?
I have one spore syringe and I don't want to mess this up.
I've also heard conflicting information about innoculating oats as grain. Many have said Pans hate oats. Is this true?
If there's a good chance of isolating a non-fruiting strain, wouldn't it be safer for me to do a multispore grow and just clone some specimens with good genetics? Seems like a safer bet but I can't find almost any information on starting a pan cyan grow with MS.
Let me know what you guys think. Really appreciate any time taken to respond. Thanks.
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Roger Clemency
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Re: Pan Cyan Cultivation - A few questions [Re: jcby]
#26713188 - 06/02/20 07:02 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well MS just means multispore, not necessarily a spore syringe. So if you swipe spores to agar, transfer it twice to make sure it’s clean, that’s still a multispore grow. It would take a decent amount of transfers to whittle down to an isolate from spores so you shouldn’t worry about accidentally isolating a non fruiting culture if you’re just cleaning up from spore print/syringe.
If you swipe in a long pattern you will have fewer strains germinating towards the end most likely but I still don’t think it’d be at the point where you might accidentally isolate to a single strain.
I can’t say anything about the oats, doesn’t seem legit but I’m not a pan guy.
-------------------- Sour grapes, sweet revenge Heaven starts right where hell ends
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jcby
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Re: Pan Cyan Cultivation - A few questions [Re: Roger Clemency]
#26713198 - 06/02/20 07:11 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Roger Clemency said: Well MS just means multispore, not necessarily a spore syringe. So if you swipe spores to agar, transfer it twice to make sure it’s clean, that’s still a multispore grow. It would take a decent amount of transfers to whittle down to an isolate from spores so you shouldn’t worry about accidentally isolating a non fruiting culture if you’re just cleaning up from spore print/syringe.
If you swipe in a long pattern you will have fewer strains germinating towards the end most likely but I still don’t think it’d be at the point where you might accidentally isolate to a single strain.
I can’t say anything about the oats, doesn’t seem legit but I’m not a pan guy.
Thanks for the clear explanation on that, it helps. I know that it would still be MS if I did just a couple cleaning transfers on agar, but hoping someone who grows pans can tell me if it's a good idea to do a MS grow. It really seems like it would be fine.
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Roger Clemency
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Re: Pan Cyan Cultivation - A few questions [Re: jcby]
#26713216 - 06/02/20 07:19 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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But what do you mean by MS? Because I’ve seen plenty of MS grows. Are you asking if spores to grain is a good idea?
-------------------- Sour grapes, sweet revenge Heaven starts right where hell ends
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jcby
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Re: Pan Cyan Cultivation - A few questions [Re: Roger Clemency]
#26713233 - 06/02/20 07:26 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Roger Clemency said: But what do you mean by MS? Because I’ve seen plenty of MS grows. Are you asking if spores to grain is a good idea?
Yes, specifically for Pan Cyan. I've seen a lot of mixed information. Some have said that syringe -> grain is asking for a failure with Pans due to them being more sensitive and vulnerable to contamination. And to add to that, many have said that oats are a really bad choice of grain for Pans. I would prefer to use oats just because I have a huge bag of them for previous grows, but I will adapt if necessary.
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AlphaDog52
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Registered: 12/21/19
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Re: Pan Cyan Cultivation - A few questions [Re: jcby]
#26713262 - 06/02/20 07:36 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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25% Rye 75% Millet is a current favorite grain mix by a reputable Pan Cyan cultivator. I haven't seen much good feedback on Oats.
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A.k.a
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Re: Pan Cyan Cultivation - A few questions [Re: AlphaDog52]
#26713297 - 06/02/20 07:49 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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There’s two very long threads about pans.
The main reason for agar is the usual cleanliness, but also pans has very distinct types of myc and you need the right one.
Otherwise it’ll be super slow and just make huge marshmallow puffs and maybe a couple pins if you’re lucky.
This is decent pan myc

This one is a couple types.

The bottom right plate is mostly good myc except that thick circle which made the plate above it which is way too puffy and not what you want. I’ve had a couple plates grow so thick it was pressed against the lid.
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LAGM2020     
Edited by A.k.a (06/02/20 07:53 AM)
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jcby
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Re: Pan Cyan Cultivation - A few questions [Re: A.k.a]
#26713753 - 06/02/20 11:02 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
A.k.a said: There’s two very long threads about pans.
The main reason for agar is the usual cleanliness, but also pans has very distinct types of myc and you need the right one.
Otherwise it’ll be super slow and just make huge marshmallow puffs and maybe a couple pins if you’re lucky.
This is decent pan myc

This one is a couple types.

The bottom right plate is mostly good myc except that thick circle which made the plate above it which is way too puffy and not what you want. I’ve had a couple plates grow so thick it was pressed against the lid.
Wow thank you so much this is exactly what I need to get going. I appreciate you taking the time to post really, I've had a hard time filtering out the information.
Just to be clear though, It's not really a problem for me to inoculate my grain jars with multispore agar right? I don't need to isolate?
I know I can grow better without doing MS but I figure I will do one MS run and then make a clone -> agar -> master grain jar.
Does this sound like a viable plan to you?
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A.k.a
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Re: Pan Cyan Cultivation - A few questions [Re: jcby]
#26713771 - 06/02/20 11:08 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah if the syringe is clean enough it’ll be fine.
Some people will go syringe to grain then take colonized grains out and put them on plates to clean it up.
By far the hardest part of pans for me was getting all the fog and fae dialed in, once that was set they’re great and grow crazy fast.
The pins are real sensitive to dryness though. With cube pins they’ll just look dry and you can fix it but the pans will just drop dead.
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LAGM2020     
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jcm4620
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Re: Pan Cyan Cultivation - A few questions [Re: jcby]
#26713776 - 06/02/20 11:09 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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u dont want to go at pans without agar man spores to grains is a super good way to fail for sure and just end up with an overlayed non fruiting nasty mess all the info u need can b gotten by clicking the link in my sig my write up is there along with links to jakes and asuras write ups as well
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jcby
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Re: Pan Cyan Cultivation - A few questions [Re: jcm4620]
#26713820 - 06/02/20 11:28 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
jcm4620 said: u dont want to go at pans without agar man spores to grains is a super good way to fail for sure and just end up with an overlayed non fruiting nasty mess all the info u need can b gotten by clicking the link in my sig my write up is there along with links to jakes and asuras write ups as well
Wow thank you that is a great write up and very nice results. That is very helpful for me because I am growing with limited space and I also am trying to do a completely stealth grow. I have one of these Rubbermaid 48GAL Trunk and I have lined the inside with 6500K LED lights. I plan on growing in foil trays and using either a bowl of perlite (or covering the bottom of the container) to keep the humidity up.
I plan on keeping FAE up by just opening up the container many times since I work from home and I can give it that level of attention. Do you think I can pull it off with the way I am doing it?
If I really want to I can spend some more money and modify it as it's own self-contained greenhouse. I definitely plan on doing a write up of the whole thing once it's done. The purpose of all of this is to be able to have an entirely self contained system that is not transparent as I rent from people and this container can be locked which gives excellent legal protection.
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jcm4620
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Re: Pan Cyan Cultivation - A few questions [Re: jcby]
#26713894 - 06/02/20 12:00 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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no a bowl of perlite aint gnna be even close enough humidity you need it as high as you can get it like to the point of if u had fruits in there us have lil beads of water on them just from the saturation of the air. plus you need constant fae and a temp of around 77-81 its a fine line man. cuz u want that super high humidity but you still need all that fae and even more you need periods of evaporation and re saturation. you cant mist once u start getting knots and pins cuz they will die so its very important to have a fc that can maintain all the needs to keep them alive and happy. belive me i have tried regular monotubs humidity chambers and sgfcs all were not good enough to keep them happy. they always died once they got about an inch above the casing
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jcby
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Re: Pan Cyan Cultivation - A few questions [Re: jcm4620]
#26714066 - 06/02/20 01:12 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
jcm4620 said: no a bowl of perlite aint gnna be even close enough humidity you need it as high as you can get it like to the point of if u had fruits in there us have lil beads of water on them just from the saturation of the air. plus you need constant fae and a temp of around 77-81 its a fine line man. cuz u want that super high humidity but you still need all that fae and even more you need periods of evaporation and re saturation. you cant mist once u start getting knots and pins cuz they will die so its very important to have a fc that can maintain all the needs to keep them alive and happy. belive me i have tried regular monotubs humidity chambers and sgfcs all were not good enough to keep them happy. they always died once they got about an inch above the casing
Okay good to hear your experienced advice. I think what I will do then is have the entire bottom made of perlite with the grow trays sitting on top. And maybe I can use a fish tank heater with air stones instead.
I can also cut a hole in the whole box and have a small computer fan on a timer to cycle the air.
Question on the fish tank heater + air stones: Does that increase the heat inside the chamber as well as increase humidity? If the heater does indeed increase temperature that would be very convenient.
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jcm4620
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Re: Pan Cyan Cultivation - A few questions [Re: jcby]
#26714150 - 06/02/20 01:43 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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no perlite only water man
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