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OfflineRedwoodmyc
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Psychedelics a potential treatment for Covid-19 disease * 1
    #26712969 - 06/02/20 03:42 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

First up I am not a doctor and this is not medical advice. This is a purely speculative post based on the science of the anti-inflammatory properties of psychedelics and what we know about immune dysfunction in the Covid-19 disease.

I have been following both of these topics closely. In fact I have first hand experience of the anti-inflammatory properties of mushrooms. I am currently using them to treat psoriatic arthritis (an auto-immune inflammatory condition, similar to rheumatoid arthritis).

On the Covid science front I am a regular listener to the This Week in Virology podcast. One of the things that I have gleaned from that podcast is that it is not the virus that kills people directly. In fact people die of an over-active immune response after they have successfully fought off the worst of the virus.

This is not uncommon in viral infections. It's called a cytokine storm. The gist of it is that various immune factors start attacking our own cells instead of just working to fight off the pathogen.

As I said I have a chronic auto-immune condition and began growing mushrooms as a means to treat that condition. I did so because I came across Charles D. Nichols research on the anti-inflammatory properties of psychedelics. Importantly he finds that sub-perceptual doses of a number of psychedelics have potent anti-inflammatory effects. If you're into reading scientific literature you can check out one of his papers on the subject here

Psychedelics as anti-inflammatory agents

Putting together the information in that paper with what we know about the immune response to the Covid-19 disease we can see that psychedelics can help to reduce the levels of the cytokines that are causing so much damage in the later stages of the disease including TNF and IL-6.

Here's a bit more of a background on the relationship between these immune factors and Covid-19.

My take home from all of this is that prohibition of psychedelics is likely making the pandemic worse because it makes it all the more difficult for people to study them as potential therapeutics in this kind of situation.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Psychedelics a potential treatment for Covid-19 disease [Re: Redwoodmyc]
    #26712983 - 06/02/20 04:26 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I’m  for the responsible & appropriate use of psychedelics to find guidance in general, especially during these challenging & uncertain days.
But tripping while sick from a virus sounds like a predominantly idea to me.  So many ways it could go badly ( depending on the infection)  What if instead of helping it seriously exacerbates various symptoms? Making things worse? - that could just as easily be the case. 

Psychs can effect the body to make BP higher or lower than normal, the impact on the central nervous & parasympathetic nervous system, heart rate, and more etc are all effected.  And that is just a couple of general / basic examples.  I can easily see it become a train wreck. I’ve tripped when sick before and it  made for a dangerous & potentially lethal combo.  The stress it took on my system was massive & it took a a couple months to recover. Then again, it partly depends on ones overall health & whatever specific pathogen or thing is chasing the sickness.

Using psychedelics to help with addictions, depression, anxiety,  cluster headaches, and others things - at & in an appropriate way etc I would feel more comfortable with - bc that’s a whole other ball game.

Anyways, sort of an interesting notion & I’m curious about it too -  but outside of a hospital/clinical setting I couldn’t advocate for people self experimenting while sick like that in good faith due to the  potentially serious drawbacks & interactions.  I’m Coming at it from a harm reduction & common sense perspective here.  Know what I mean?


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (06/02/20 04:38 AM)


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OfflineRedwoodmyc
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Re: Psychedelics a potential treatment for Covid-19 disease [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26713004 - 06/02/20 04:50 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I agree with what you are saying here and as I said right at the top I'm not a doctor and this is not medical advice. I would also point out two things. Firstly Charles D. Nichols work shows that psychedelics can have potent anti-inflammatory effects at sub-perceptual doses so in terms of studying this stuff scientifically (which is what I think should happen) we are not talking about tripping.

Secondly the traditional medicinal use of psychedelics is also quite different to what most people mean when they talk about 'tripping'. I use a low dose of mushrooms 3 times a week as part of a healing practice that is informed by two trips to the Amazon to drink ayahuasca at a retreat centre, and that is not something that I will stop doing if I get the virus, but, by the same token, I would definitely not recommend that anyone else did what I'm doing.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Psychedelics a potential treatment for Covid-19 disease [Re: Redwoodmyc]
    #26713012 - 06/02/20 04:55 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Edit-  my bad.

I’m a little teapot

:cookiemonster:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (06/02/20 10:38 AM)


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OfflineRedwoodmyc
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Re: Psychedelics a potential treatment for Covid-19 disease [Re: Redwoodmyc]
    #26713123 - 06/02/20 06:22 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Edit: All good! Peace!


Edited by Redwoodmyc (06/06/20 12:34 AM)


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Psychedelics a potential treatment for Covid-19 disease [Re: Redwoodmyc]
    #26713132 - 06/02/20 06:29 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

:atreyu:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (06/02/20 10:37 AM)


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OfflineRedwoodmyc
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Re: Psychedelics a potential treatment for Covid-19 disease [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26713140 - 06/02/20 06:33 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I think you've misunderstood me. I'm not traveling anywhere man. I'm doing all of this in my home. I was in the Amazon in 2015 and 2017. I'm very worried about what is happening there now with the spread of the virus and I'm worried about the its spread more generally. While it's circulating I think we should all be staying home.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Psychedelics a potential treatment for Covid-19 disease [Re: Redwoodmyc] * 2
    #26713345 - 06/02/20 08:09 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I'd like a vaccine AND psychedelics AND well behaved police AND sex


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineKorean Jesus
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Re: Psychedelics a potential treatment for Covid-19 disease [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26713544 - 06/02/20 09:30 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Regardless of health effects (probably none either way if you're otherwise healthy) tripping while sick usually makes you more aware of your sickness and feel like absolute fucking shit. Well, maybe not mescaline, but shrooms and acid for sure.

Could the mental benefits outweigh this? I don't think they would for me, but to each their own.

DMT's probably the least risky.


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:rastamon::getstoned::rastamon:


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: Psychedelics a potential treatment for Covid-19 disease [Re: Redwoodmyc] * 1
    #26713677 - 06/02/20 10:33 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I think I’ll clear this up for y’all: when OP said he wouldn’t stop if he got the virus, he meant he wouldn’t stop the 3 times a week microdose regime, and wasn’t referring to his 2 trips to the Amazon

❤️
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Psychedelics a potential treatment for Covid-19 disease [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26713688 - 06/02/20 10:37 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Ty


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: Psychedelics a potential treatment for Covid-19 disease [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26713953 - 06/02/20 12:28 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

No worries, I could only think he meant that, as he seems nice :cookiemonster:


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineRedwoodmyc
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Re: Psychedelics a potential treatment for Covid-19 disease [Re: DJ Ed] * 1
    #26715121 - 06/02/20 08:47 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DJ Ed said:
I think I’ll clear this up for y’all: when OP said he wouldn’t stop if he got the virus, he meant he wouldn’t stop the 3 times a week microdose regime, and wasn’t referring to his 2 trips to the Amazon

❤️
DJ Ed




Yes that's what I meant. It's actually a low dose (around .6 to 1.2 grams dried cubes) rather than a microdose but yes you got the gist of it. If we're talking about different medicinal applications of psychedelics I think we should really be thinking about a variety of doses from the micro to high dose scenario depending what ails us.

Microdosing, and the higher dose they give in the current clinical studies on depression etc, have gotten all the press, but in my experience using mushrooms to treat an auto-immune condition it has been regular low doses that have given me the most benefit.

I should also say that I combine the low dose with a yoga and meditation practice. What I'm doing is very much in the 'psychedelic assisted' paradigm. In the depression studies its 'psychedelic assisted psychotherapy'. For me with the arthritis its something like 'psychedelic assisted yoga therapy'.

Connect this back to my original post one of the reasons I would not stop this practice if I got the virus is because the mushrooms help me to go deeper into the breathing exercises (pranayama) that are part of yoga. These breathing exercises help to bring more oxygen into the body and low levels of blood oxygen is one of the causes of death with the Covid-19 disease.


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: Psychedelics a potential treatment for Covid-19 disease [Re: Redwoodmyc]
    #26715466 - 06/02/20 11:58 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

It’s certainly very intriguing, and very useful information; thank you for sharing :thumbup:

DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflinePsion
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Re: Psychedelics a potential treatment for Covid-19 disease [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26715587 - 06/03/20 01:16 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

No clue about psychs (no not psychos stupid phone) and anti inflammatory effects, but I've been telling people about zinc lozenges if they feel the first signs of a cold coming on. Gotta suck em till they're gone, to coat the throat with the zinc irons, and can only use them for up to 5 days safely at the 21ish mg dose every 3 hours or so, but damn do they work at reducing the severity and duration of colds and flu. Last 6 times I've used them I only felt sick for about 3 to 4 days with fairly mild cough and sniffling with a bit of fatigue,  instead of the flat out week and a half of misery I usually get.

From what I understand the zinc basically reduces the amount of nasties in the throat area, reducing symptoms and helping your body get the upper hand. Hence, why you have to suck on the nasty gritty things instead of just chewing them up lol.


Edited by Psion (06/03/20 01:17 AM)


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OfflineRedwoodmyc
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Re: Psychedelics a potential treatment for Covid-19 disease [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26715623 - 06/03/20 01:37 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DJ Ed said:
It’s certainly very intriguing, and very useful information; thank you for sharing :thumbup:

DJ Ed




Glad you found it useful. I have debated posting on this but I think it is worth putting it out there for people to think about. I think there is a very good rationale for studying this clinically, particularly with (R)-DOI the drug that Charles Nichols found to have the strongest anti-inflammatory effects at sub-perceptual doses. I would love for that to happen but it's probably unlikely.


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Offlinedk-1

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Re: Psychedelics a potential treatment for Covid-19 disease [Re: Redwoodmyc]
    #26715706 - 06/03/20 03:07 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

i've been on a diet known for being highly anti-inflammatory for the last 2 years and i haven't been sick once during that time


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InvisibleThayendanegea
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Re: Psychedelics a potential treatment for Covid-19 disease [Re: Redwoodmyc]
    #26716272 - 06/03/20 09:33 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks for the information Redwood. I too suffer from an autoimmune disorder (RA) I've been treating it with chaga / reishi extracts for the past 5-6 yrs with some success. At least I've been able to stay off the medically prescribed methotrexate or the biologics that my Rheumatologist has suggested.

I've not heard of psychedelics being used for inflammation before in this way and the research looks promising. I forage my own mushrooms and have plenty of dried ps. ovoidiocystidiada. I may start a similar low dose program as you do. If you don't mind me asking, which autoimmune disease do you have and how do you rate your results from these dosages. Also, how long have been on said regimen.

If you don't feel safe airing things out here, you can :pm: me.

Thanks again for your information.


--------------------
Look Deep Into Nature,and Then You Will Understand Everything Better.

Albert Einstein


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: Psychedelics a potential treatment for Covid-19 disease [Re: Psion]
    #26716434 - 06/03/20 10:49 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

About 10 years ago I discovered Vicks First Defence. Take within 36 hours of first signs of a cold, it encapsulates the cold germs, starves them, then flushes them out. Within 48 hours, sometimes overnight, you’re baseline.

Got it when I went on night shifts about 10 year back, and it worked a treat :thumbup:


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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Offlineamazing
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Re: Psychedelics a potential treatment for Covid-19 disease [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26716812 - 06/03/20 01:15 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

when corona virus started I thought I was gonna die because I had bronchitis

switched to vaping instead of smoking weed

and other healthier lung choices

it went away eventually

but now im pretty sure theres a ketamine-naltrexone combo being researched for covid19 treatment

and I sure do a lot of those drugs just saying

https://www.ibtimes.com/coronavirus-treatment-ketamine-naltrexone-being-tested-covid-19-drugs-2970324

no news here since but theres gotta be something, no???

also certain strains of weed may help so I feel like im immune but yeah im def. crazy even if immune


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