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OfflineSporeJunkie
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Society is so weird * 1
    #26712862 - 06/02/20 01:15 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Everything about it blows my mind. What are we all doing? I mean for fucking real. I feel disconnected from reality most of the time. Not in necessarily a bad way but I just don’t give a fuck about anything anymore. This shit is pathetic and I know I’m not the only one going through it. Somethings gotta give.


--------------------
Royale with cheese


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: SporeJunkie]
    #26713043 - 06/02/20 05:23 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Ghosts don't eat, sleep or take drugs. If you were a spirit you'd recognize the benefits of existence here. Many powerful entities realize that and have this place sewed up to their liking. You have no realistic option. Enjoy your stay.


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26713055 - 06/02/20 05:32 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

People really want peaceful lives with the least amount of stressors possible. Society protects but also inhibits the individual in their life. That is just the basic premise. Lets define what we mean by society first, where are its boundaries.


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #26713068 - 06/02/20 05:43 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

InnerWisdom said:
People really want peaceful lives with the least amount of stressors possible. Society protects but also inhibits the individual in their life. That is just the basic premise. Lets define what we mean by society first, where are its boundaries.




There's more than one society ergo there's more than one way of doing things ergo there is accommodation of differences.

Peace within a society hinges on obeying the rules of that society.

Any society has bullies who enjoy consternation or debasement caused by infraction of the rules, ergo societies main purpose is the quiet enjoyment of other people's troubles.


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OfflineOldnameforgotten
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26713632 - 06/02/20 10:11 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
Quote:

InnerWisdom said:
People really want peaceful lives with the least amount of stressors possible. Society protects but also inhibits the individual in their life. That is just the basic premise. Lets define what we mean by society first, where are its boundaries.




There's more than one society ergo there's more than one way of doing things ergo there is accommodation of differences.

Peace within a society hinges on obeying the rules of that society.

Any society has bullies who enjoy consternation or debasement caused by infraction of the rules, ergo societies main purpose is the quiet enjoyment of other people's troubles.




So there are SOME bullies who enjoy other peoples troubles.... so societies MAIN purpose is the enjoyment of other peoples troubles?


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OfflineSporeJunkie
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26713685 - 06/02/20 10:36 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I don’t mean any particular society just society in general. Sorry, I should’ve clarified. I think “society” is an inevitable thing because that’s just how it ends up working out when a group of people get together and start to grow. It’s not inherently bad. It just blows my mind how, to me anyway, it seems most people could do so much better if they treated people how they wanted to be treated and tried to put themselves in other people’s shoes. All that cliche shit really. Most of its true. Most of it is also super easy to practice but it’s like people are too blinded by their own ego or worries or something. I’m guilty of it myself too but I notice it and try to work on those things. I just feel like we could be so much happier and get through life a lot easier if people just stepped out of their own worlds for a minute.


--------------------
Royale with cheese


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: SporeJunkie]
    #26713722 - 06/02/20 10:51 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

we are complete, yet incomplete.
complete in our ability to think and feel, but incomplete in our capacity to thrive alone.

that seems half baked, or baked with the top off and boiling over. but it is how we are, sealed yet open, finished but partial.

yes society is weird, as we are individually, and in groups of unfinished things co-consuming and rearranging what is.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineOldnameforgotten
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26713741 - 06/02/20 10:58 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
we are complete, yet incomplete.
complete in our ability to think and feel, but incomplete in our capacity to thrive alone.

that seems half baked, or baked with the top off and boiling over. but it is how we are, sealed yet open, finished but partial.

yes society is weird, as we are individually, and in groups of unfinished things co-consuming and rearranging what is.



Quote:

redgreenvines said:
we are complete, yet incomplete.
complete in our ability to think and feel, but incomplete in our capacity to thrive alone.

that seems half baked, or baked with the top off and boiling over. but it is how we are, sealed yet open, finished but partial.

yes society is weird, as we are individually, and in groups of unfinished things co-consuming and rearranging what is.





How could life exist in any other form?


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26713866 - 06/02/20 11:47 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Oldnameforgotten said:


So there are SOME bullies who enjoy other peoples troubles.... so societies MAIN purpose is the enjoyment of other peoples troubles?




Obviously you missed the memo:

Contempt and sadism are natural products of existence.

Ergo enjoyments naturally gravitate towards the contemptuous and sadistic.
Examples of anyone's contemptuous and sadistic nature are demonstrable if you have the time; ergo everyone has bullying tendencies.


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: SporeJunkie]
    #26713922 - 06/02/20 12:14 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SporeJunkie said:
... I should’ve clarified. I think “society” is an inevitable thing because that’s just how it ends up working out when a group of people get together and start to grow. It’s not inherently bad...




Yes a technological society can be proven to be inherently bad. We must have sweatshops making cellphones and we must make it an attractive opportunity to have them work there.
      " The system HAS TO regulate human behavior closely in order to function. At work people have to do what they are told to do, otherwise production would be thrown into chaos. Bureaucracies HAVE TO be run according to rigid rules. To allow any substantial personal discretion to lower-level bureaucrats would disrupt the system and lead to charges of unfairness due to differences in the way individual bureaucrats exercised their discretion. It is true that some restrictions on our freedom could be eliminated, but GENERALLY SPEAKING the regulation of our lives by large organizations is necessary for the functioning of industrial-technological society."

    "In any technologically advanced society the individual's fate MUST depend on decisions that he personally cannot influence to any great extent. A technological society cannot be broken down into small, autonomous communities, because production depends on the cooperation of very large numbers of people and machines. Such a society MUST be highly organized and decisions HAVE TO be made that affect very large numbers of people. When a decision affects, say, a million people, then each of the affected individuals has, on the average, only a one-millionth share in making the decision. What usually happens in practice is that decisions are made by public officials or corporation executives, or by technical specialists, but even when the public votes on a decision the number of voters ordinarily is too large for the vote of any one individual to be significant. [17] Thus most individuals are unable to influence measurably the major decisions that affect their lives. There is no conceivable way to remedy this in a technologically advanced society. The system tries to "solve" this problem by using propaganda to make people WANT the decisions that have been made for them,"


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26714057 - 06/02/20 01:09 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
...
Contempt and sadism are natural products of existence.

Ergo enjoyments naturally gravitate towards the contemptuous and sadistic.
Examples of anyone's contemptuous and sadistic nature are demonstrable if you have the time; ergo everyone has bullying tendencies.



both ergo's are not really logical therefore's at all.

you could truthfully declare that contempt and sadism are found in nature sometimes, and some personalities will form that perversely find pleasure by emulating the forms of contempt and sadism to which they are exposed.

everyone does not have bullying tendencies at all. Only some do, especially if exposed to it a lot in childhood.

I think you got pooched by the word naturally, and maybe from your personal experience amidst a crowd of brutes and bullies at home and school and later at work. This can happen and I am sorry if it has happened to you. I have had my share of exposure but have not been attracted to that way of being.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: SporeJunkie]
    #26714102 - 06/02/20 01:25 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SporeJunkie said:
I just don’t give a fuck about anything anymore..



This is the secret to either deep peace or perpetual suffering, you choose. :awesomenod:

How am I dealing with all this bullshit? I just stopped consuming it, and I started a garden so I can keep myself busy.
This will either blow over or get worse, not going to let it bother me.


--------------------
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Tmethyl]
    #26714586 - 06/02/20 04:26 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I don't care about the world. There are (insert your tragic happening) somewhere every day. What is the point in caring if one cannot make a difference? It's just wasted feelings and effort, worry, fear, time.

Quote:

What are we all doing?




Trying to satisfy our fear and greed and loneliness. It has always been so. Always will be.

Why care? And if one has no good reason to care, why feel bad about not caring? I'm not saying don't care at all. Choose your battles wisely.


--------------------
rahz

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"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Rahz]
    #26714728 - 06/02/20 05:34 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I would call that being a bit negative.

but I guess you don't care.


--------------------
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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26714847 - 06/02/20 06:43 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Re: SporeJunkie :
"Everything about it blows my mind. What are we all doing? I mean for fucking real. I feel disconnected from reality most of the time. Not in necessarily a bad way but I just don’t give a fuck about anything anymore. This shit is pathetic and I know I’m not the only one going through it. Somethings gotta give."

From an old 1960's graffiti:
"Reality is the changing face of need"

But it might be better to say, what one focuses attention on,
has a great effect, on one's emotions.

Also another saying:
"you don't have to believe everything you think"
and I would add
"you don't have to identify with every passing emotion"


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26714907 - 06/02/20 07:08 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

It's true that in a world of 7+ billion people somewhere, somebody is bleeding out from a gunshot wound. Someone is dying of starvation, disease, cancer. Someone is getting their toes, feet or legs amputated from their diabetes. Someone is dying from the covid. Some woman is getting their ass beat by a drunk man. Babies are being neglected and abused. That's just the tip of the list.

Do you "care" about all those people? If you say yes, I'd say it's just lip service to make yourself feel good. Care is an action word, not some feels. Otherwise, it's just a way of externalizing one's own pain. Now ain't that negative?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Rahz]
    #26714922 - 06/02/20 07:12 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
It's true that in a world of 7+ billion people somewhere, somebody is bleeding out from a gunshot wound. Someone is dying of starvation, disease, cancer. Someone is getting their toes, feet or legs amputated from their diabetes. Someone is dying from the covid. Some woman is getting their ass beat by a drunk man. Babies are being neglected and abused. That's just the tip of the list.




Thanks for that I'm going to sleep well tonight with all this on my mind.

:makesmecry:


--------------------
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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OfflineSporeJunkie
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Tmethyl]
    #26714960 - 06/02/20 07:27 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Haha didn’t mean for shit to get so dark or deep. It was just a thought I was having at the time. I do enjoy the discussion that came from it though. A lot of you guys are really insightful and it’s cool to hear everyone’s perspective. I guess that’s another thing that fascinates me about all this. Each and everyone of us is seeing this world through a different set of eyes, and no two people are the same no matter how similar they may be.


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Rahz]
    #26714968 - 06/02/20 07:32 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:


Do you "care" about all those people? If you say yes, I'd say it's just lip service to make yourself feel good. Care is an action word, not some feels.





Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I am sorry if it has happened to you.




More lip service imo, or does he really feel distress?


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Tmethyl]
    #26714983 - 06/02/20 07:39 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Tmethyl said:
Quote:

Rahz said:
It's true that in a world of 7+ billion people somewhere, somebody is bleeding out from a gunshot wound. Someone is dying of starvation, disease, cancer. Someone is getting their toes, feet or legs amputated from their diabetes. Someone is dying from the covid. Some woman is getting their ass beat by a drunk man. Babies are being neglected and abused. That's just the tip of the list.




Thanks for that I'm going to sleep well tonight with all this on my mind.

:makesmecry:




And for everything thing that happens like that - there is another version of events playing out - positively, with other people.
A baby is born. A sibling gets married. Parents birthday.  A friend recovers from addiction.  A Good Samaritan donates a kidney to someone in need.  Someone is experiencing their first psychedelic trip right now - and they have fully broken through and seen beyond duality into the unity of all life.  A neighbor teaches someone to play lacrosse .  Someone hugs their best friend or crush.  Someone sees their own short comings and vows to change and backs it with a daily effort.  People are online, taking the time to respond to noobs getting into mushrooms and correcting their errors or answering crucial questions, compassionately, out of the good of their hearts.  A Woman feeds ducks & cats at the park.  Am astronaut looks out the window of the ISS and sees earths with endless wonder & possibility.  Millions dreaming, at night I their beds - playing in an unreal dream world of the unconscious.

A flower finds a way to grow and bloom through a crack in the concrete.  Forests and rivers teeming with incredible biodiversity.  A father teaches his son a life lesson while fishing. A big sister teaches her sibling how to do pre algebra.  A dog runs with primal joy in a back yard.  A squirrels having an orgy in a tree.  Someone standing up to prejudice and willful ignorance & evil.
Etc

.  Etc.  Good good.  Good.

People helping all over the world, fighting to balance the bottom line.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (06/02/20 07:47 PM)


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26714988 - 06/02/20 07:41 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

:happyclaps:


--------------------
¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Tmethyl]
    #26715004 - 06/02/20 07:49 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

:excitingthread:


Sleep well, you little miracle you.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26715075 - 06/02/20 08:23 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
Quote:

Rahz said:


Do you "care" about all those people? If you say yes, I'd say it's just lip service to make yourself feel good. Care is an action word, not some feels.





Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I am sorry if it has happened to you.




More lip service imo, or does he really feel distress?




Choosing to involve one's self in a forum involves some responsibility to one's self and the other participants, or at least it can, maybe should, but I can't directly answer your question. He can. I guess it depends on how stoic he is. Albeit over the internet it's a direct correspondence which is different than talking about how you feel bad about such and such situation, but do nothing about it.

More to the point, do you care about homeless people? If yes, what have you done about it? Donated? Offered a bed? Delivered food or worked in a soup kitchen? That would be caring. Feeling bad about something isn't really care. So why "care"? To satisfy one's own moral obligation to feel bad? Makes no sense. If you don't really care for homeless people that's fine. You have a finite amount of resources, effort, influence. You direct it how you see fit.

I don't care about homeless people. Simple statement of fact as evidenced by my actions.


--------------------
rahz

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"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Rahz]
    #26715097 - 06/02/20 08:33 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I don't think the condition is that black & white. One can be discomfited by the thought and act accordingly if an opportunity arose. Time is the essence in determining lip-service; a quarter in a beggar's cup = care, and I suppose a fist shaken in defiance = distress.


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OfflineOldnameforgotten
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26715102 - 06/02/20 08:37 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
I don't think the condition is that black & white. One can be discomfited by the thought and act accordingly if an opportunity arose. Time is the essence in determining lip-service; a quarter in a beggar's cup = care, and I suppose a fist shaken in defiance = distress.




I say we stop thanking the military for their service then. If you are not going to go out to war RIGHT NOW then its just lip service. Even retired veterans.


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26715123 - 06/02/20 08:48 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I'm confused; remind me what Australia's military has accomplished to be thankful for.


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OfflineLost_tribe
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26715132 - 06/02/20 08:52 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Agreed, although it would be so nice to have a friend or two nearby. This loneliness hurts so bad.


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Lost_tribe]
    #26715135 - 06/02/20 08:53 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

The Ego, the bone of contention.


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OfflineOldnameforgotten
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26715151 - 06/02/20 09:02 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
I'm confused; remind me what Australia's military has accomplished to be thankful for.




For one I'm american living in aus. And two theres a shit ton of aussies that have died for america. You can only say this if you dont know about history other than american history.

We have a modern "Alamo" that we celebrate every year.


But this isnt the point I was making was it? My point was if your issue is with empty platitudes why not also include thanking military vets for their service?

You act like this lip service isnt genuine. I dont like that theres someone getting raped somewhere in the world right now. I want it to stop. Why does admitting that.... mean I'm faking it?

Do you not believe that I care about that person being raped? Because I can tell you for 100 percent certainty I do. If it was my mother being raped I would fly down there and kill the bastard. But I have different degrees of care.... and I recognize the impossibility of caring for all mankind the same way I care for my mother.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26715160 - 06/02/20 09:04 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
I don't think the condition is that black & white. One can be discomfited by the thought and act accordingly if an opportunity arose. Time is the essence in determining lip-service; a quarter in a beggar's cup = care, and I suppose a fist shaken in defiance = distress.




I agree with all that. But in either case, isn't it best to let it go if there's no action (or further action) to be had? And likewise, if there's always something horrible going on in the world, should we always feel horrible? It's called the weight of the world. Contemplation of it is worth doing. Maybe one finds direction in doing so. I think this is especially true for younger people. But eventually one figures out the nature of the world is suffering. One doesn't make the world a better place by providing care it's just makes it the same as it is. That's built into our nature just as much as our propensity to cause suffering and we can only wax philosophical about how the world would be if people cared less or cared more.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Rahz]
    #26715199 - 06/02/20 09:24 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Thank god for hot-heads like the one above you whom we can count on to add fuel to the fire by means of a plaintive cry.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26715200 - 06/02/20 09:24 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I dont like that theres someone getting raped somewhere in the world right now. I want it to stop. Why does admitting that.... mean I'm faking it?




It's not faking, but is it really care? Semantic trick of course. There are two definitions. One is more explicitly a verb. It's the one that might actually do someone some good. The other is your own internal suffering. So the question is, how much sleep will you loose knowing someone somewhere is getting raped? People put things like this out of their mind so they can sleep. Out of mind, out of sight. Saying you can't sleep at night because someone somewhere is getting raped is probably lip service/exaggeration, though I guess it all factors into our general unease at being human.

I do put the fruit of my effort into doing my little part at reducing suffering. There are a multitude of other sufferings I do nothing about. Why care, if care is only suffering? That is the point I'm trying to get at.


--------------------
rahz

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"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineOldnameforgotten
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26715221 - 06/02/20 09:35 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
Thank god for hot-heads like the one above you whom we can count on to add fuel to the fire by means of a plaintive cry.




You really shouldnt blanket judge people. I've worked all over the world as a social worker and first responder medic / security helping at risk communities.

I dont let shit happen around me that aint right. And I shoulder any pain and grief that I can shield others from if possible. Thats what I bring to the table.


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Oldnameforgotten]
    #26715249 - 06/02/20 09:44 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

The hot-headed emotionally driven rioters (blanket judgment) will argue their position, and when all is said and done some will have killed to stop what "aint right". Yeah, we celebrate emotional orgies of killing by thanking military vet's for their service, and that's what people think is the right attitude to teach the young.

Another perspective might thank the Lord for the entertainment.


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OfflineOldnameforgotten
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26715292 - 06/02/20 10:00 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
The hot-headed emotionally driven rioters (blanket judgment) will argue their position, and when all is said and done some will have killed to stop what "aint right". Yeah, we celebrate emotional orgies of killing by thanking military vet's for their service, and that's what people think is the right attitude to teach the young.

Another perspective might thank the Lord for the entertainment.




I love this argument that we shouldnt use emotion as a factor in our choices. Like some how our emotion is this childish thing.

Should we act just like robots? Cull anyone not productive? Force people into the most minimal living conditions that they could still be productive inside of and not rebel?

What is the reason not to do those things if NOT emotion?



What you want is impossible. You want all protesters around the country in the millions to protest with signs and not a single one of them do anything illegal in the process. You also want 0 people who arent protesters to take advantage of the situation and do illegal things.

And personally.... I'm cool with a lot of the illegal things. I think blocking a major highway is an excellent way to get your point across. Personally I hope this BLM protest extends to imprisoning these corrupt politicians who disgrace my fucking country. I hope we get full on fucking change.

We wont though. Itll die down. They'll be insulted. Be convinced to shutup and take what they are given. And life will go on.



But in the end there is the ultimate truth: Nothing fucking matters. I get pleasure in helping people around me. I think about the positive ripples that will be sent off into the world that I will never get to witness. And thats enough for me.


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Re: Society is so weird [Re: SporeJunkie]
    #26715454 - 06/02/20 11:46 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SporeJunkie said:

Everything about it blows my mind. What are we all doing? I mean for fucking real. I feel disconnected from reality most of the time. Not in necessarily a bad way but I just don’t give a fuck about anything anymore. This shit is pathetic and I know I’m not the only one going through it. Somethings gotta give.




How many people do you feel intimately close to?

Do you have some high quality relationships?


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Re: Society is so weird [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26716040 - 06/03/20 07:46 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Not really. I thought I did but over the past couple years we seemed to have grown apart.


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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Oldnameforgotten] * 1
    #26716241 - 06/03/20 09:22 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
I don't care about the world. There are (insert your tragic happening) somewhere every day. What is the point in caring if one cannot make a difference? It's just wasted feelings and effort, worry, fear, time.
———————
Quote:

What are we all doing?
———————

Trying to satisfy our fear and greed and loneliness. It has always been so. Always will be.

Why care? And if one has no good reason to care, why feel bad about not caring? I'm not saying don't care at all. Choose your battles wisely.

- - - - - - - - -
It's true that in a world of 7+ billion people somewhere, somebody is bleeding out from a gunshot wound. Someone is dying of starvation, disease, cancer. Someone is getting their toes, feet or legs amputated from their diabetes. Someone is dying from the covid. Some woman is getting their ass beat by a drunk man. Babies are being neglected and abused. That's just the tip of the list.

Do you "care" about all those people? If you say yes, I'd say it's just lip service to make yourself feel good. Care is an action word, not some feels. Otherwise, it's just a way of externalizing one's own pain. Now ain't that negative?

- - - - - - -

Choosing to involve one's self in a forum involves some responsibility to one's self and the other participants, or at least it can, maybe should, but I can't directly answer your question. He can. I guess it depends on how stoic he is. Albeit over the internet it's a direct correspondence which is different than talking about how you feel bad about such and such situation, but do nothing about it.

More to the point, do you care about homeless people? If yes, what have you done about it? Donated? Offered a bed? Delivered food or worked in a soup kitchen? That would be caring. Feeling bad about something isn't really care. So why "care"? To satisfy one's own moral obligation to feel bad? Makes no sense. If you don't really care for homeless people that's fine. You have a finite amount of resources, effort, influence. You direct it how you see fit.

I don't care about homeless people. Simple statement of fact as evidenced by my actions.
- - - - -
I agree with all that. But in either case, isn't it best to let it go if there's no action (or further action) to be had? And likewise, if there's always something horrible going on in the world, should we always feel horrible? It's called the weight of the world. Contemplation of it is worth doing. Maybe one finds direction in doing so. I think this is especially true for younger people. But eventually one figures out the nature of the world is suffering. One doesn't make the world a better place by providing care it's just makes it the same as it is. That's built into our nature just as much as our propensity to cause suffering and we can only wax philosophical about how the world would be if people cared less or cared more.
———————————————
Quote:

I dont like that theres someone getting raped somewhere in the world right now. I want it to stop. Why does admitting that.... mean I'm faking it?
——————————————————


It's not faking, but is it really care? Semantic trick of course. There are two definitions. One is more explicitly a verb. It's the one that might actually do someone some good. The other is your own internal suffering. So the question is, how much sleep will you loose knowing someone somewhere is getting raped? People put things like this out of their mind so they can sleep. Out of mind, out of sight. Saying you can't sleep at night because someone somewhere is getting raped is probably lip service/exaggeration, though I guess it all factors into our general unease at being human.

I do put the fruit of my effort into doing my little part at reducing suffering. There are a multitude of other sufferings I do nothing about. Why care, if care is only suffering? That is the point I'm trying to get at.





- - - - - -

.    Rahz you assume folks can handle honesty...
(Often seems doubtful......Especially if it has a sharp edge)

Quote:

Oldnameforgotten said:
...But in the end there is the ultimate truth: Nothing fucking matters. I get pleasure in helping people around me. I think about the positive ripples that will be sent off into the world that I will never get to witness. And thats enough for me.




Along the lines of Oldnameforgotten’s slightly softer tone:

there is tonglen meditation
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=tonglen+meditation&t=hk&ia=web

for starters, a short excerpt, (but if interested the links below have much more detailed information):

"How to Practice Tonglen
BY PEMA CHÖDRÖN| MAY 20, 2020

Pema Chödrön teaches us “sending and taking,” an ancient Buddhist practice to awaken compassion. With each in-breath, we take in others’ pain. With each out-breath, we send them relief.

Tonglen practice, also known as “taking and sending,” reverses our usual logic of avoiding suffering and seeking pleasure. In tonglen practice, we visualize taking in the pain of others with every in-breath and sending out whatever will benefit them on the out-breath. In the process, we become liberated from age- old patterns of selfishness. We begin to feel love for both ourselves and others; we begin to take care of ourselves and others.

Tonglen awakens our compassion and introduces us to a far bigger view of reality. It introduces us to the unlimited spaciousness of shunyata (emptiness). By doing the practice, we begin to connect with the open dimension of our being.

Tonglen can be done for those who are ill, those who are dying or have died, or those who are in pain of any kind. It can be done as a formal meditation practice or right on the spot at any time. If we are out walking and we see someone in pain, we can breathe in that person’s pain and send out relief to them."

.    It is not about proclaiming to others that one cares, while doing nothing, but also avoids harding one's heart, repressing feeling.

again, if interested the links have much more detailed information.
Everyone's or anyone's MWV.


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Re: Society is so weird [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #26716392 - 06/03/20 10:27 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

pema is pretty good.


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Re: Society is so weird [Re: laughingdog] * 1
    #26720111 - 06/04/20 07:51 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz you assume folks can handle honesty...




You assume that I assume :grin:

Some will find a way to deal with such negative feelings in a positive way. It has been written a million times but a person must come to it on their own, maybe with some help along the way. Being that we cannot affect all of the ills we perceive, there needs to be a sublimation of that "grief for the world" into something that will make us more effective in the tasks we do involve ourselves in.

It is not all cut and dry, but when it becomes clear that one is not omnipotent one should look inward and see about fixing ones self, and not care about the world in the sense that one has tender hurtful emotions about everything.

There are fine details regarding gender, so I don't disrespect such attitudes, nor are they foreign to me :wink: but I think there is a balance which is needed to be whole.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #26721048 - 06/05/20 06:25 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
when it becomes clear that one is not omnipotent one should look inward and see about fixing ones self, and not care about the world in the sense that one has tender hurtful emotions about everything




That, right there.  Yep.  That's it.  :thumbup:


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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Forrester]
    #26721197 - 06/05/20 07:38 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I do not agree that, that settles the matter.
The issue has been painted in black and white, or as having only 2 alternatives.
Like this: If you can't (or don't) help it means, you don't care.
and #2 therefore if you say, you care it means you are a hypocrite.
So we have only 2 alternatives if we choose to view life this way: help people, or else be a hypocrite if one expresses any caring, without taking any action.

This ignores (for example) all the people who have spouses, or children, who won't listen to good advice, and do harmful and unwise 'things' to themselves, in other words they are people one loves, but can't help. These are the hundreds of shades of grey,  everyday life is full of. Peoples hearts are torn apart, by these things.

I doubt any sensitive and responsible person gets through, life without encountering many such situations.

To view life as having such stark alternatives, as being either a hypocrite, or a hard nosed general (type) who speaks in terms of "collateral damage" when speaking of civilian deaths, when part of oneself knows about the "shades of grey" mentioned above, might suggest, that something else is at work in their psyche, beneath the surface. But of course I don't really know, I'm 'just another bozo at  the back of the bus'.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: laughingdog]
    #26721392 - 06/05/20 09:01 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

There was a point to my initial comments. Care has more than one connotation. To care FOR someone one must at least have a few kind words with the hope that a difference is made. Caring ABOUT someone or something generally indicates a willingness to care for in some way. I guess a person can simply spend their whole life feeling bad about everything they don't approve of, but doesn't seem the best. Could that energy not be put to better use?

In the example you gave, there is an attempt to provide care regardless of whether it is effective or not. And if a heart is being torn apart with no relief in sight, that could be a sign that one's care is not effective and that it's time to move on.

"Caring about someone else is the closest thing to being cared for."

How does it feel?


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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Rahz]
    #26721497 - 06/05/20 10:10 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

there is also the teenage angst denial which becomes a true habit after a few repetitions: "I don't care!" usually followed by stomping out or slamming a door.

caring, and taking care, and 'caring for' are all aspects of awareness and compassion, and they are natural, while shutting it off is juvenile and verges on lazy.


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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Rahz]
    #26721657 - 06/05/20 11:13 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
There was a point to my initial comments. Care has more than one connotation. To care FOR someone one must at least have a few kind words with the hope that a difference is made. Caring ABOUT someone or something generally indicates a willingness to care for in some way. I guess a person can simply spend their whole life feeling bad about everything they don't approve of, but doesn't seem the best. Could that energy not be put to better use?

In the example you gave, there is an attempt to provide care regardless of whether it is effective or not. And if a heart is being torn apart with no relief in sight, that could be a sign that one's care is not effective and that it's time to move on.

"Caring about someone else is the closest thing to being cared for."

How does it feel?





"And if a heart is being torn apart with no relief in sight, that could be a sign that one's care is not effective and that it's time to move on."

When your kid is addicted to harmful drugs (unfortunately a common situation with the current US opioid crisis), 'moving on' may not be an option.

Many thousand of folks, have spouses they love, that smoke cigarettes, and they settle, for making them smoke outside to protect the kids, but even so they know their spouses health is being harmed. But there is nothing they can do. Of course that will have an emotional effect unless one is autistic, (or perhaps the head of a tobacco company, or  Donald Rumsfeld), or deeply enlightened.

There are all sorts of variations on such things in family life; it is what creates, or is the subject of many novels and films. How humans react when caught in difficult situations, or have conflicts of interest, is what creates interest, as there are often no simple answers.

Mafia, Nazi, & kidnapping movies, are some examples or types of movies, that frequently deal with the internal agony, that people go thru when caught in terrible situations, where there are no obvious answers or escape.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #26721808 - 06/05/20 12:14 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
there is also the teenage angst denial which becomes a true habit after a few repetitions: "I don't care!" usually followed by stomping out or slamming a door.

caring, and taking care, and 'caring for' are all aspects of awareness and compassion, and they are natural, while shutting it off is juvenile and verges on lazy.




The teenage angst of "I don't care!" is deceptive. When said in anger it's obvious the opposite is true. "I don't want to care!" would be more honest but it would require admitting that one does care. And nowhere did I suggest shutting it off. I did actually point towards the solution but maybe you missed it.

At any rate, you and dog are both suggesting very personal situations which is not what I was addressing. In the case of dependents this is especially so. Even in the case of a spouse or close friend, if the care is "tearing one's heart apart" and there are no solutions after various attempts at resolution one can learn to be more stoic which is not the same as being lazy,"turning it off", hardening one's heart, OR, one can remove themselves from the situation which might be the best solution for everyone involved.

And it could be that some forms of "care" which linger and cause pain is due to a lack of consciousness and compassion, fear of being on one's own, fear of being a bad person through "giving up". Trapped, but perhaps not really. If one chooses to stay in a bad situation, who's fault is that? One might assume that is what they want. And so another might question how much "care" they want to invest in that situation.

I'm glad to discuss and go into tangents, but the point I've been trying to make, which some of the audience seems to understand, is that investing one's self in the ills of the world to the point one is experiencing anxiety and reducing their effectiveness is counterproductive.


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rahz

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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Rahz]
    #26721827 - 06/05/20 12:25 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

not just investing, but overspending, or spending beyond one's means.

it is good to knwo what you can afford - to set limits and abide within them.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26721831 - 06/05/20 12:27 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I can agree with that.


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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Rahz]
    #26721855 - 06/05/20 12:42 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Choose your battles wisely.




While we're being helpful perhaps you can give 'A word to the wise' and explain some of the parameters one might bear in mind when choosing their battles "wisely".


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26721867 - 06/05/20 12:48 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Since people can be strange/weird , it only makes sense that by extension that factor gets multiplied on the societal level.  Making society not just weird - but oh so weird.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26721909 - 06/05/20 01:04 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
Quote:

Rahz said:
Choose your battles wisely.




While we're being helpful perhaps you can give 'A word to the wise' and explain some of the parameters one might bear in mind when choosing their battles "wisely".




I'm confused why you would ask since that is what I have been doing since the quote.


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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Rahz]
    #26722223 - 06/05/20 03:46 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Ya, well, so much can be read into "stoicism" and "responsibility", "action", "caring" and "lip service to make yourself feel good" as to make the awestruck, such as myself, believe you could actually continue revealing the mysteries that we are subject to.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26722395 - 06/05/20 05:32 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

You're welcome to dispute or otherwise contradict what I have to say. Maybe I will learn something new. Maybe not. But patronizing in a debate forum isn't useful. I would rather argue with Red or laughingdog :shrug:


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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Rahz]
    #26722588 - 06/05/20 07:23 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Continuing to reap wisdom from your wordplay is my only hope.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26722611 - 06/05/20 07:38 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Words often have more than one meaning and context is important. I suspect you know this as it's the basis of condescension, although it's generally a blithe attitude... careless. How's that for word play?

Do you feel I have been unkind, even after explaining my position? If so, what good does it do to attempt to return the favor by stooping to what you perceive me to be?


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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Rahz]
    #26723286 - 06/06/20 02:27 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

That's a PhD in repartee right there.


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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26723549 - 06/06/20 08:02 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Queen baptized me then stamped her print on my forehead and eating 🍄 isn't right now or then.


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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Cujllickduo]
    #26723611 - 06/06/20 08:39 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

You’re that one guy from the royal family that’s been kept hidden from the public all this time, aren’t you?

I knew it.


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Re: Society is so weird [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26723630 - 06/06/20 08:52 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

:oldman2: :imslow:


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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Cujllickduo]
    #26723922 - 06/06/20 11:34 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

  The 👑 Queen 👑  wrote to me asking for a shag, but since her inbox is full, and I cannot reply, I need you to do me a favor...seeing as how you’re part of the Royal fam and all that bullocks, please leave a note 📝 in her bed chambers saying that I’ll be sure to give her a good rogering next time I’m in town, K? Thnx!  :heart:


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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Rahz] * 1
    #26724011 - 06/06/20 12:09 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:

. . .  investing one's self in the ills of the world to the point one is experiencing anxiety and reducing their effectiveness is counterproductive.




Amen.    Without a healthy level of detachment, we cripple ourselves and generate more suffering.


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Re: Society is so weird [Re: SporeJunkie] * 1
    #26725197 - 06/06/20 11:12 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I went through this stuff like 30 years ago. And it's completely valid to ask this question over and over. It used to piss me off because I thought no one else noticed. Now I know a lot of people do actually notice, there are some people who do not... And we must forgive those people. Now it's mostly just an endless source of fun just watching it all unfold is awesome. That doesn't mean I don't have to participate in it beyond the minimums. Culture is not your friend but it's also not your enemy it just is.


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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #26725687 - 06/07/20 05:48 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
It used to piss me off because I thought no one else noticed. Now I know a lot of people do actually notice, there are some people who do not... And we must forgive those people.




A wise perspective, imo. However the emotional ties to one's community will precipitate conflict. Reining in one's emotions while negotiating a compromise is often the job of supermen.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: SporeJunkie] * 2
    #26725796 - 06/07/20 07:14 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

The thing with society is, we invented it; it's a social construction. So we shouldn't expect too much from it. It's like when I go to the bar (when the bar was open) and one of my friends was completely cool, and one was OK, and one was WTF do you think is up with this dude. I don't expect anything more from society than that.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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OfflineSporeJunkie
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26725837 - 06/07/20 07:47 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah but that’s what I’m saying. It was inevitable. I don’t think humans planned “society” and if they did they didn’t do a good job maintaining it. Shit has gotten way out of hand. Whether you agree with a lot of this crap going on or not it’s still going on. And most of it is insane.


--------------------
Royale with cheese


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OfflineCujllickduo
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: SporeJunkie]
    #26725854 - 06/07/20 07:58 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

:nicesmile:


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: SporeJunkie]
    #26725956 - 06/07/20 08:52 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

If you take the big picture it has always ebbed and flowed. I remember Vietnam when I was a kid...the hippies...the protests...people thought the world had gone crazy. Be fortunate you are seeing history and societal change now. This period in the culture is actually very cool. Someday you'll tell people the story of when society realized social responsibility. One of Hunter S Thompson's regrets was that he perceived young people stopped speaking out...and yet it happens again. I do not like Donald Trump but he has been a huge catalyst for change. He didn't plan it that way...he thought the opposite....but he did tear down the system. However he fucked it against himself...lol.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #26725981 - 06/07/20 09:05 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
I do not like Donald Trump but he has been a huge catalyst for change. He didn't plan it that way...he thought the opposite....but he did tear down the system. However he fucked it against himself...lol.




I think this is very important for a lot of the left to remember, because we can either waste our energy being angry at/about him or look at the positive and see what a catalyst he's been.  The new media news networks I used to watch unfortunately seem to have chosen the former, which is why I stopped watching them.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Forrester]
    #26726079 - 06/07/20 09:42 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Actually Trump did what he promised...he broke the system and now it needs to be reconstructed. I don't think even he understood how it would go....this time will be a huge benefit to our country. Trump just blundered it but got it right unintentionally.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #26726125 - 06/07/20 10:00 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

He absolutely, certainly, without a doubt had no idea what he was doing :lol:

Sometimes that's what it takes.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Forrester]
    #26726131 - 06/07/20 10:03 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Its called fate...


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #26726254 - 06/07/20 10:54 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

fate is a meaningless attribution.


--------------------
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Offlinekitten6
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: SporeJunkie]
    #26727147 - 06/07/20 05:39 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

in the end it is just self preservation people are too scared to die nowadays, people don't accept that life and death are interchangeable. You cannot create life without death and vice versa.

With society we have invented ways of avoiding death for as long as we can but of course it is a pretty hopeless cause. We managed to prolong our lives in certain places where society is most advanced and we have solved problems like famine and drought in many places. Now as a result we have the good part of 8 million people who are trying to forget death, now there's a mass extinction, and we are most probably at fault for this one.

Freedom is the balance between life and death, now there's so many of us that we have to rely on societies to stop us from dying out. And I think that we need to stop being so afraid. But then again we were evolved to be afraid and not all of us can control these basic instincts, well every one can with the right experience but society has stopped most people from reaching that point of experience in life.

But don't worry eventually the balance will tip far enough for everything founded above to fall off, and so the balance will be re-established.

Either that or we carry on and break through all limits and colonize past this planet, but don't worry by then you won't even have the freedom to think how weird society is and you'll have plenty of soma and open relationships to make you happy about it as well.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: kitten6] * 1
    #26727472 - 06/07/20 08:12 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

At times everything seems weird. Being here at all can seem weird.

Even if everything was okay, okay could seem weird but maybe not bad weird, just weird.

But people in general seem to exist on a scale of fucked up. And what's weird is that so many people think everyone is fucked up but them, or they know they're fucked up but don't know how to not be fucked up. And the systems that are supposed to help us? Beliefs of literal virgin births and flying donkeys. Weird. So that's how society turns out... and it's all perfectly normal. Bad drama is better than no drama. When there are intimacy issues good drama can become all but impossible. Bad drama is the only choice. And people say they hate it, but in a way they seem to love it.

It's not just physical death people are avoiding, but death of the ego, which also prevents ecstatic states and feelings of being okay. And instead of taking the steps to experience natural highs, they do everything else they can to create ecstasy, indiscriminate sex, drugs, exciting themselves with violence, hatred, sorrow and remorse. Things that are exhausting rather than life affirming. Almost as if they're trying to kill themselves... but they don't want to die... but they do. Feeling pain can seem better than feeling nothing at all and often those seem to be the only choices. It's weird.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26727721 - 06/07/20 10:22 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Fate is what happens when you look away...


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #26728017 - 06/08/20 03:17 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Society is the mass "waking" manifestation of the unconscious mind.

:mushroom::mushroom::mushroom: are the IMHO to unraveling all of that shit.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #26728422 - 06/08/20 08:44 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Fate is what happens when you look away...



don't look away, keep observing even when you turn your head, clearly the whole "fate" thing is due to distraction and it never means the same thing twice.


--------------------
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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Tmethyl]
    #26732764 - 06/09/20 09:21 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I don't care about the world. There are (insert your tragic happening) somewhere every day. What is the point in caring if one cannot make a difference? It's just wasted feelings and effort, worry, fear, time.

Quote:

What are we all doing?




Trying to satisfy our fear and greed and loneliness. It has always been so. Always will be.

Why care? And if one has no good reason to care, why feel bad about not caring? I'm not saying don't care at all. Choose your battles wisely.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Rahz]
    #26733585 - 06/10/20 06:28 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Why care? And if one has no good reason to care, why feel bad about not caring?




This I agree with very much.  Guilt to me is one of the most utterly useless human emotions I can think of.

Not only does it not serve the self, or the other, it also happens to be extremely detrimental to the self, in so many ways...

*Although it could be argued that guilt can be very useful - this is mainly in the manipulation of others, which I would hold still does not serve the self in the end, although some base their whole lives on the belief that it does*


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Forrester]
    #26733623 - 06/10/20 06:51 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Not sure why the repost is there. I didn't repost my own post.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Rahz]
    #26734200 - 06/10/20 11:57 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

you glitched, no need to feel guilty, as if you could prevent future glitching.


--------------------
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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Rahz]
    #26734213 - 06/10/20 12:01 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Choose your battles wisely.




In choosing eggs wisely one may know that fresh eggs don't float or stand up on the bottom of a container of water.

In choosing a house wisely one might check to see if is in a flood plane or has title leans.

In choosing our battles wisely one might survey the opponent for weaknesses that can be taken advantage of.

Rahz doesn't care about the world. Is that a weakness, a character flaw that will prove to be one's undoing?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26734321 - 06/10/20 12:41 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

it's the mask of cynicism


--------------------
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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Rahz]
    #26734419 - 06/10/20 01:17 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Rahz said:
There was a point to my initial comments. Care has more than one connotation. To care FOR someone one must at least have a few kind words with the hope that a difference is made. Caring ABOUT someone or something generally indicates a willingness to care for in some way. I guess a person can simply spend their whole life feeling bad about everything they don't approve of, but doesn't seem the best. Could that energy not be put to better use?




I thought Rahz already covered the not-caring thing, here^^^

Sorry for resurrecting the argument by responding to the repost.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Forrester]
    #26734440 - 06/10/20 01:25 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:


I thought Rahz already covered the not-caring thing,




Can you show me the outline for the wise in their choice of battles?


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26734457 - 06/10/20 01:33 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

What is the point in caring if one cannot make a difference?




He could not make a difference, so there is no opening for him to work with.

It's not wise for him to battle something in which he sees no chance of success.

OK, now I get it.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26734555 - 06/10/20 02:10 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

enough posturing about caring!


--------------------
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26734825 - 06/10/20 04:26 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Pshaww!...wisemen…

The signature
Quote:

Iterations are fine, we don't have to be perfect


may clue us in to an indwelling dissatisfaction, and yet the words:

Swimming in a fish bowl
Year after year
Running over the same old ground
And how we found
The same old fears...

...suggests to me that iterations on the topic of Care may be as close to perfection as we can get.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26734867 - 06/10/20 04:50 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
it's the mask of cynicism




I'm a part time cynic. Cynicism also has more than one connotation. Vice or virtue? You decide.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineDarwin23
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: SporeJunkie]
    #26734909 - 06/10/20 05:08 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Agreed. I feel that humanity mostly dooms itself. Dunning-Kruger plays a big part in that. With the George Floyd situation, there is a lot of herd mentality. While it looks like people seem to care, they're really just running with the pack and so nothing changes in the end.


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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Darwin23]
    #26736103 - 06/11/20 06:42 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

:goodluckwiththat:


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: laughingdog]
    #26738747 - 06/12/20 05:55 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
But of course I don't really know, I'm 'just another bozo at  the back of the bus'.




The Beatles lyric "I'm patching a hole where the rain (bozo) gets in, that keeps my mind from wandering" is applicable I think.

An argument about hurricane debris being a source of entertainment can viewed in the context of maintaining access to a resource that has multiple possibilities for entertainment.

The objection of course is that we don't want that mess in our livingroom and prefer the extreme of burying it beyond the access of anyone.

As a metaphor it presents a power struggle on one side with an intent to dominate the front of the bus, and on the other a laissez-faire approach with an eye towards maintaining access to a wealth of distraction that is presented by a pile of debris.


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Rahz]
    #26775161 - 06/22/20 07:03 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
You're welcome to dispute or otherwise contradict what I have to say. Maybe I will learn something new. Maybe not. But patronizing in a debate forum isn't useful. I would rather argue with Red or laughingdog :shrug:




I trust the intimacy between spots and birds of a feather will prove to be a rewarding experience for all concerned.


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OfflineCapuchin
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Rahz]
    #26777042 - 06/23/20 03:04 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
At times everything seems weird. Being here at all can seem weird.

Even if everything was okay, okay could seem weird but maybe not bad weird, just weird.

But people in general seem to exist on a scale of fucked up. And what's weird is that so many people think everyone is fucked up but them, or they know they're fucked up but don't know how to not be fucked up. And the systems that are supposed to help us? Beliefs of literal virgin births and flying donkeys. Weird. So that's how society turns out... and it's all perfectly normal. Bad drama is better than no drama. When there are intimacy issues good drama can become all but impossible. Bad drama is the only choice. And people say they hate it, but in a way they seem to love it.

It's not just physical death people are avoiding, but death of the ego, which also prevents ecstatic states and feelings of being okay. And instead of taking the steps to experience natural highs, they do everything else they can to create ecstasy, indiscriminate sex, drugs, exciting themselves with violence, hatred, sorrow and remorse. Things that are exhausting rather than life affirming. Almost as if they're trying to kill themselves... but they don't want to die... but they do. Feeling pain can seem better than feeling nothing at all and often those seem to be the only choices. It's weird.





I was watching a show called Life Below Zero. It documents the lives of people who live in isolation in the arctic tundra of northern Alaska. No dependence on societal infrastructure what so ever. Granted some segments of the show are reportedly scripted, but there are plenty of people who actually do this, without the cast and crew.

For the most part they say it makes them feel free. The way they describe their experiences. Being responsible for their own warmth, the acquisition of their own food, water, shelter, their own safety, occupation of their own time, and agency in pretty much every facet of their lives.


Sounds like how life should be. It sounds bliss. Probably isn't, but most likely better off than the status quo if you care so much for individuality.


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Rahz]
    #26778452 - 06/24/20 05:47 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
I don't care about the world. There are (insert your tragic happening) somewhere every day. What is the point in caring if one cannot make a difference? It's just wasted feelings and effort, worry, fear, time.

Quote:

What are we all doing?




Trying to satisfy our fear and greed and loneliness. It has always been so. Always will be.

Why care? And if one has no good reason to care, why feel bad about not caring? I'm not saying don't care at all. Choose your battles wisely.




In synopsis then: You do not care about the world because you do not perceive an opening where leverage can be applied. Correct?


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26779063 - 06/24/20 10:57 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

To "the world"? No. One could reference the butterfly effect but there is nothing new under the Sun.

"I'm not saying don't care at all. Choose your battles wisely."

People are generally going to follow their passion for better or worse. Hopefully they can learn and adjust and cause less pain or even be helpful. But those people die and are replaced with new people who get to learn it all over again. And learning some actual harmony in one's small corner seems no easy task. Lots of old people seem as though they've learned nothing at all in that respect. More bitter. Such are the cards that get dealt. To believe otherwise is judgmental and dare I say arrogant. You can expect better of those you have direct influence over, and it would be wrong to suggest that attitude doesn't have it's place, but expectations can be a bitch.

And if you expect to change the world, what are the chances you yourself become bitter with broken expectations?

Reminds me of an old Eagles song.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Society is so weird [Re: Rahz]
    #26779319 - 06/24/20 12:33 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

keep on beginning to change the world, there is no expectation beyond that.
what is K-Pop?


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