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cinderblock
Failed Conformist

Registered: 07/13/14
Posts: 866
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: These protests are insane [Re: Niffla] 2
#26709710 - 05/31/20 06:09 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Niffla said:
Quote:
cinderblock said:
Quote:
Tmethyl said: My only opinion is that peaceful protests are always ignored, it's business as usual after a peaceful protest, and although these protests are violent and likely not a good course of action, it is an inevitable consequence of years and years of ignoring peaceful protests. This is the inevitable conclusion that should have been fully anticipated.
While I agree that peaceful protests never work in America, you should take it out on the political offices and the powers that be, not small businesses.
The sheer ugliness of it all has really just literally kinda sickened me. So I'm trying my hardest to stay away from it (although not doing too good of a job apparently since I'm posting here in this thread). And this will probably (hopefully) be last post on any of this.
I mean just watching and reading a little bit of the news this morning made my stomach nauseous. From the officer who squashed the life out of that guy to the rioting and the looting -- the whole thing is just uber depressing. And really, really sad, man. On so many levels.
Also seeing people openly root for the burning of businesses and living residences -- I think that really takes a special type of evil to root for something like that. I get being angry at the police and the government and maybe wanting bad things to happen to them specifically but a lot of these small businesses are people's livelihoods. Small business owners usually pour every cent they have into their business to make it work. I don't support rioting or looting of anywhere but it's one thing if it's a Target or a McDonalds, because those are mega corporations that will be fine in the end but a lot of these little random places that are getting torched and destroyed...it just makes me ill inside. Why are people hurting these people who have zero to do with what happened? And even big businesses -- what kind of sense does it make to destroy, for instance, a Target? How does that aid the war on police brutality?
And for those who say, "oh well it's just collateral damage", I gotta wonder if those people would feel the same way if their own business or say their mother or father's business got burned to the ground. Like would they say "ah it sucks mom that your hair salon got trashed because people are angry but hey it's just collateral damage you'll get over it".
Really easy to be unaffected by it when it's not yours but for someone out there...it is theirs. And their lives have been flipped upside down when they had nothing to do with any of this. Their business just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Agreed with everything you said.
If you wanna storm the White House and demand changes, I'm all for it. But burning down your own city, is the opposite of what you should be doing. Your own taxpayer money is basically going to fund the cleanup and rebuild of the city, instead of going into education and other essential services.
Construction workers are the only winners of this. They're gonna get slammed with work after this is all over.
The sad part about this riot, is that it's only reaffirming stereotypes. America is so divided right now, and this is only exacerbating the tension and hate between groups. I don't know a single person, whose political views has changed, as a result of these protests. If anything, people who were on the side of the protesters at the beginning, are shifting gears.
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PatrickKn


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,584
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Re: These protests are insane [Re: cinderblock] 7
#26709917 - 05/31/20 07:43 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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In the past few months, many were advocating for forced compliance of coronavirus measures, decrying conservatives for openly protesting, giving nods to forced vaccination by being held down as in the past and decrying third world nations for not effectively containing riots through force during a pandemic, and many here were part of those conversations. That conversation changes pretty fast when political dynamics are at play, but what's funny is the same kind of attitude for enforcing such measurements would have and do lead to the same kinds of abuses you see before you that sparked these riots. Executive power overreach from the local police level right on up to the presidential office is hard to keep in check when there is a sizable minority of support behind it.
The problem isn't with this side or that as the bad guy really. The problem in the United States currently is that two sides of the political dynamic readily grant authority to enforcement in order to see their side win. Too readily are both sides willing to see free speech, assembly, the right to hold a weapon, rights to privacy and the rights to do with your body as you please erode in the face of perceived political dynamics and cultural divisions. The conversation always devolves into whose side you're on and how the erosion of rights should be handled and who should receive them rather than how to curb systemic inequities.
To me there is no major difference between forced vaccination and forcing someone to keep a child to term, nor is there a difference between a white guy in the suburbs keeping a AR-15 or a black guy in the city keeping a hand gun. We decry that the government taps our phones without warrants, and simultaneously ask that they make personal information on our mobile devices available to quell the spread of disease.
The national conversation is completely compromised. There is no basis from which to form common ground because those protesting government overreach are not on the same page and push each other away - and down the road whether a few weeks from now or months, liberals and conservatives alike will be adopting positions again which imply eroding the rights of their opposites because the conversations being peddled by influencers will once again be about silencing and subjugating the other side than it is about the systemic problems of our governments at every level.
Police officers are overrepresented by white officers in often predominantly black neighborhoods. That's known. But among every single community, whether it's inner city blacks, country farm kids or suburban hipster white kids there is a sort of institutionalized shaming among people for joining the police, military or positions of legal office. The very communities disproportionately affected by executive overreach are those that socially forgo representation a lot of the time. While there should definitely be more oversight and third party inspection of police practices, perhaps the real answer to closing the gap in representation is to actually get more people representative of the local population into positions of law enforcement.
While there are systemic hurdles in implementing this, the larger hurdles are social in nature - and the overall view of seeing the police, military and politicians as the enemy rather than as a tool of the people they are hired to serve is a difficult dynamic to overcome no doubt. But regardless, liberals and conservatives alike continually elect representatives unwilling or incapable of implementing the changes necessary to curb executive overreach in matters of policing, war and containing corruption - and the same representatives are able to take advantage of the political breakdown in the face of systemic problems.
Edited by PatrickKn (05/31/20 08:52 PM)
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 46,728
Loc: Texas
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Re: These protests are insane [Re: PatrickKn]
#26710002 - 05/31/20 08:36 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
cinderblock said:
Agreed with everything you said.
If you wanna storm the White House and demand changes, I'm all for it. But burning down your own city, is the opposite of what you should be doing. Your own taxpayer money is basically going to fund the cleanup and rebuild of the city, instead of going into education and other essential services.
Construction workers are the only winners of this. They're gonna get slammed with work after this is all over.
The sad part about this riot, is that it's only reaffirming stereotypes. America is so divided right now, and this is only exacerbating the tension and hate between groups. I don't know a single person, whose political views has changed, as a result of these protests. If anything, people who were on the side of the protesters at the beginning, are shifting gears.

Quote:
PatrickKn said: In the past few months, many were advocating for forced compliance of coronavirus measures, decrying conservatives for openly protesting, giving nods to forced vaccination by being held down as in the past and decrying third world nations for not effectively containing riots through force during a pandemic, and many here were part of those conversations. That conversation changes pretty fast when political dynamics are at play, but what's funny is the same kind of attitude for enforcing such measurements would have and do lead to the same kinds of abuses you see before you that sparked these riots. Executive power overreach from the local police level right on up to the presidential office is hard to keep in check when there is a sizable minority of support behind it.
The problem isn't with this side or that as the bad guy really. The problem in the United States currently is that two sides of the political dynamic readily grant authority to enforcement in order to see their side win. Too readily are both sides willing to see free speech, assembly, the right to hold a weapon, rights to privacy and the rights to do with your body as you please erode in the face of perceived political dynamics and cultural divisions. The conversation always devolves into whose side you're on and how the erosion of rights should be handled and who should receive them rather than how to curb systemic inequities.
To me there is no major difference between forced vaccination and forcing someone to keep a child to term, nor is there a difference between a white guy in the suburbs keeping a AR-15 or a black guy in the city keeping a hand gun. We decry that the government taps our phones without warrants, and simultaneously ask that they make personal information on our mobile devices available to quell the spread of disease.
The national conversation is completely compromised. There is no basis from which to form common ground because those protesting government overreach are not on the same page and push each other away - and down the road whether a few weeks from now or months, liberals and conservatives alike will be adopting positions again which imply eroding the rights of their opposites because the conversations being peddled by influencers will once again be about silencing and subjugating the other side than it is about the systemic problems of our government's at every level.
Police officers are overrepresented by white officers in often predominantly black neighborhoods. That's known. But among every single community, whether it's inner city blacks, country farm kids or suburban hipster white kids there is a sort of institutionalized shaming among people for joining the police, military or positions of legal office. The very communities disproportionately affected by executive overreach are those that socially forgo representation a lot of the time. While there should definitely be more oversight and third party inspection of police practices, perhaps the real answer to closing the gap in representation is to actually get more people representative of the local population into positions of law enforcement.
While there are systemic hurdles in implementing this, the larger hurdles are social in nature - and the overall view of seeing the police, military and politicians as the enemy rather than as a tool of the people they are hired to serve is a difficult dynamic to overcome no doubt. But regardless, liberals and conservatives alike continually elect representatives unwilling or incapable of implementing the changes necessary to curb executive overreach in matters of policing, war and containing corruption - and the same representatives are able to take advantage of the political breakdown in the face of systemic problems.
GREAT post.
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HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 69,595
Loc: The Inexpressible...
Last seen: 7 seconds
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Re: These protests are insane [Re: FruitOfLife] 1
#26710025 - 05/31/20 08:55 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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So basically people are fed up with a bunch of different things. The most pressing issue being institionalized racism and cops continuing to kill people. Yeah, the cop may get some prison time. But what if he doesnt? The fact that cops keep killing innocent people is why this is happening now. Plus all the self-isolating and layoffs is making me unrested about the US system as a whole.
Some people just cant take the fuckin bullshit anymore! They want things to end, like cop-citizen violence. Yes, rioting isnt the best way, but there is no leadership. Who is to lead on this mission to end cop violence and oppression against citizens? Who will stand up to the fucked up system that is the Police State?
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Cosmic Eye
The 2nd tallest


Registered: 07/07/19
Posts: 698
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
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This is getting wild. Ive been watching DC for the past hour. Its not too far from my work. I would only want to be there for the wrong reason. The thrill just to see it.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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The war on drugs, the drug laws, systematic racism, sexism, & common place corruption, elitism, unaffordable health care & tuition for education, wage slavery , debt slavery, inequality, the constant wars, terrorism, police brutality, police upholding unnatural laws, injustice, Covid 19, the response to the pandemic, Trump, Biden....this next election...Floyd. Xenophobia, the lies, the deception, the manipulations, the prisons systems, Elitism, the controlled Mass Media & news cycles, big business & multinational corps, deranged mass shootings, being locked up for what you put in your body - making money off of putting people in prison , covert ops knife & dagger killings in other countries back yards - pollution, fossil fuels.... Spying on Citizens without their consent...sexual abuse / Epstein & power elites & politcians... ...just everything in general lmao - etc etc etc
Politicians & elected representatives making money off of Covid...giving our tax money to mostly the rich...all that stuff plays a role.
Covid 19 + the horrible response to it & 30% unemployment & Floyd’s death are just the breaking point to everything humanity has had to deal with since the beginning - more or less over time. It was always inevitable... now they are rioting & protesting in my own city too...this very second.  Hope for the best. Because this is just crazy...I don’t think it’s the best way to go about it.... but I understand the mind set, just don’t agree with the tactics.
 
( to & for All)
Get ready for the shit show.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (05/31/20 09:29 PM)
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 46,728
Loc: Texas
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NBA player JR Smith beat the shit out of "protester" who broke his car window
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HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: These protests are insane [Re: Niffla]
#26710087 - 05/31/20 09:32 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hey if breaking someone’s window is fair game, Why wouldn’t breaking someone’s face be fair game too? Especially if it’s the face of the guy who broke your window. Wow - people can be stupefyingly stupid. That guy got instant karma’d.
Would I let someone get away scotch free if they broke mine or my families hard earned property?
Highly doubt it, especially if they did it intentionally, trying to destroy whatever just because they felt wronged or hyped.
Fucc that.
Damnit, now this is going to lead to needing more police. I suppose the bad part of the protesters will just ignore that fact.
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Niffla



Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 46,728
Loc: Texas
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Hey if breaking someone’s window is fair game, Why wouldn’t breaking someone’s face be fair game too? Especially if it’s the face of the guy who broke your window.
That guy got instant karma’d.
Oh I totally agree.
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HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 2 hours, 24 minutes
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: The war on drugs, the drug laws, systematic racism, sexism, & common place corruption, elitism, unaffordable health care & tuition for education, wage slavery , debt slavery, inequality, the constant wars, terrorism, police brutality, police upholding unnatural laws, injustice, Covid 19, the response to the pandemic, Trump, Biden....this next election...Floyd. Xenophobia, the lies, the deception, the manipulations, the prisons systems, Elitism, the controlled Mass Media & news cycles, big business & multinational corps, deranged mass shootings, being locked up for what you put in your body - making money off of putting people in prison , covert ops knife & dagger killings in other countries back yards - pollution, fossil fuels.... Spying on Citizens without their consent...sexual abuse / Epstein & power elites & politcians... ...just everything in general lmao - etc etc etc
Politicians & elected representatives making money off of Covid...giving our tax money to mostly the rich...all that stuff plays a role.
Covid 19 + the horrible response to it & 30% unemployment & Floyd’s death are just the breaking point to everything humanity has had to deal with since the beginning - more or less over time. It was always inevitable... now they are rioting & protesting in my own city too...this very second.  Hope for the best. Because this is just crazy...I don’t think it’s the best way to go about it.... but I understand the mind set, just don’t agree with the tactics.
Get ready for the shit show.
Yeah, this is the accumulation of many different social, economic and criminal justice issues. The MSM wants to just paint the narrative it's all about white cop bad and POC protesting, but that isn't the case.
Now Trump and the DOJ are blaming Antifa for this mess. I'm sorry, but this isn't about a bunch of social misfits dressing up in black, that's total nonsense.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/31/trump-antifa-terrorist-organization-legal-292785
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,308
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 28 minutes, 34 seconds
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Re: These protests are insane [Re: qman]
#26710222 - 05/31/20 11:35 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
The problem isn't with this side or that as the bad guy really. The problem in the United States currently is that two sides of the political dynamic readily grant authority to enforcement in order to see their side win.
Nah. The authority to kill civilians had resulted from not enforcing the law when it comes to the police. The police set their own rules in practice.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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PatrickKn


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,584
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Re: These protests are insane [Re: koods]
#26710234 - 05/31/20 11:50 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
But regardless, liberals and conservatives alike continually elect representatives unwilling or incapable of implementing the changes necessary to curb executive overreach in matters of policing, war and containing corruption - and the same representatives are able to take advantage of the political breakdown in the face of systemic problems.
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budmanman
OTD Masterbater



Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 17,982
Loc: PNW
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Re: These protests are insane [Re: PatrickKn]
#26710407 - 06/01/20 03:42 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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The fires are accelerating climate change and the riots are spreading the virus.
-------------------- Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal. And I am mentally unstable.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,957
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Re: These protests are insane [Re: FruitOfLife]
#26710442 - 06/01/20 04:25 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
FruitOfLife said:
I fully support the right to protest peacefully
There is no way for African Americans to protest that won't get them attacked from all sides.
Remember "black lives matter"? bam, "all lives matter" and "blue lives matter"
Remember "taking a knee"? What is more humble, peaceful and righteous than that? Nope even the president officially viciously attacked it as unpatriotic.
Maybe black people should arm themselves to the teeth and exercise their constitutional right to walk around on peaceful demonstrations with an AR-15 openly carried, or just open carry firearms in general.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 1 month, 15 days
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Quote:
Ahab McBathsalts said: It isn't just about racial killings. It's social unrest caused by high unemployment, the wealth gap and a poor social safety net. When you have an interruption like the corona virus people are going to act out. There are going to be protests in the street over something, anything. This just popped off.
People are just fed up right now.
When Vancouver lost the Stanley Cup there was no reason to riot and burn cars and break windows, but sometimes it's just the feeling at the the time. Mob violence is never a rational expression of thought.
This.
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  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Should have seen Mexico City after they beat a rival in a World Cup in the mid 00’s, It looked like an air raid had swept across the streets of the city. A victory celebratory mob/riot,
The damage was done when they were happy lmao. Can’t imagine what it might have looked like if they had lost  I agree with Ahab. Pandemic, poor response, classic ancient feuds, & over 25% unemployment = people going a bit nutty for a while.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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