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OfflineThimbleberry
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Registered: 05/30/20
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Chattering teeth, Tight Jaw, Tremors, Help!
    #26706235 - 05/30/20 02:22 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Hey Everyone!
I'm a beginner psychonaut here, and I have a health related question that I'm trying to answer! I'm experiencing extremely chattery teeth and muscle weakness/shakiness when dosing above 1.5 grams (all P. cubensis), and I'm experiencing jaw tightness/shakiness and chattering that lasts days after a trip. Its not painful or even super uncomfortable, but it is disconcerting. I'm trying to get some peace of mind by learning whats going on here. I've seen similar questions asked on several other threads, but i'm hoping somebody here might know what's going on here from a biological/physiological standpoint. Is this the direct result of psilocin and its affinity to the 5-HT2A receptor, or could it be caused by some of the other compounds in the shrooms? Might it have something to do with beta-carboline alkaloids? Could it be something to do with an interaction with the dopaminergic system (which is linked to some movement disorders)? I've searched all over the internet and havent come up with a definitive answer to this particular issue, so any thoughts/hypotheses/explanations are greatly appreciated!

If nobody out there knows, let's put our heads together and figure this out!

Here are some helpful links that I came across while doing research:
Beta Carboline Alkaloids in Shrooms
The Types of Serotonin Receptors
Interesting Beta Carboline Study
List of Psychoactive compounds


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OfflineSuperMario940
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Re: Chattering teeth, Tight Jaw, Tremors, Help! [Re: Thimbleberry]
    #26706559 - 05/30/20 07:12 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

i get the chattering and tremors, but not the following days.
ive always put it down to a drop in body temperature one experiences whilst tripping.

jumpers and blankets are a great aid, all part of the pre trip prep. maybe even thermals.
i kind of enjoy it! but am aware thats its because my body is cold, regardless of how i feel.


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OfflineTyperwritermonky
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Re: Chattering teeth, Tight Jaw, Tremors, Help! [Re: SuperMario940]
    #26707515 - 05/30/20 05:17 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I've seen people get muscle weakness/shakiness and chattering teeth like they are cold when taking LSD, but it seems to disperse once the come up is over and the peak has begun.  What are your electrolyte balances looking like?  Are you getting proper sources of salt, potassium and magnesium as well as calcium?  Are you properly hydrated before the experience?  That's where I'd first start.  As well, what are your temperature modulations - are you slightly anemic maybe and do you get enough Iron in your diet?

So I'd think about all those, and then move forward in your next experience by making sure your body has enough salt, potassium, magnesium, and calcium as well as iron.  All of those can be gotten in bioavailable supplements very inexpensively.  As well, make sure you have enough protein in your diet as well.


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Offlinekyu
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Re: Chattering teeth, Tight Jaw, Tremors, Help! [Re: Thimbleberry]
    #26707675 - 05/30/20 06:15 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I've had similar effects once, and not on shrooms but on an Ayahuasca.

This is just my guess, but I attributed this to not having enough sleep prior to my trip. If I don't sleep enough before tripping on shrooms, I often get body temperature swings, dim visions and mind loops. My theory here is that psychedelics somehow intensify sleep deprivation symptoms.

Another thing: do you use much stimulants like caffeine or nicotine? Or maybe just stressful lifestyle. Some things may seem business as usual in regular life but really kick your ass in trips, so, give it a thought.

Also, one unfortunate case in my life makes me believe psychedelics can cause decompensation if you have some latent neurological disorder. I mean, if there's some shit going on, it can manifest earlier in trips. Any family history of mental diseases or maybe recent concussions or stuff? Don't mean to scare you, but since you're already concerned, uh.


--------------------
You gave me a wonderful, wonderful world,
And you gave me eyes to see it,
And you gave me LSD to open them.


Edited by kyu (05/30/20 06:17 PM)


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OfflineThimbleberry
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Re: Chattering teeth, Tight Jaw, Tremors, Help! [Re: kyu]
    #26708904 - 05/31/20 11:05 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

This is interesting... My dad does have parkinsons, so that's been on my mind for sure... what was the experience that you're talking about? (If you're willing to share)


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Offlinekyu
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Re: Chattering teeth, Tight Jaw, Tremors, Help! [Re: Thimbleberry]
    #26709079 - 05/31/20 12:46 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

My friend decided to try mushrooms and had a full-blown 16-hour trip on a microdose, and she had some weird and persistent aftereffects, not sure what exactly it was, but something quite alarming. Somebody prescribed her antidepressants, which only made it worse, so, she kept looking for a proper diagnosis. It eventually turned out she had Wilson's disease.

Shrooms were potentiated due to liver damage, and the aftereffects (I presume) were actually a manifestation of her brain damage. Apparently, shrooms interrupted compensation process and caused the disease to manifest earlier, and thus helped my friend test for it earlier. She started proper treatment and is relatively alright now.

I'm not a doctor and don't know much about PD, can only suggest making an appointment if this concerns you.


Edited by kyu (05/31/20 12:55 PM)


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Offlinealephdog
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Re: Chattering teeth, Tight Jaw, Tremors, Help! [Re: kyu]
    #26709346 - 05/31/20 02:58 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

probably the body excreting too much magnesium, which acts as an anti-stress and muscle relaxant within the body as well as dozens of other essentials functions.  This sort of thing is common with stimulants, caffeine, and sometimes even marijuana


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InvisibleKaruna
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Re: Chattering teeth, Tight Jaw, Tremors, Help! [Re: Thimbleberry]
    #26710586 - 06/01/20 06:00 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I sometimes have quite a noticeable jaw vibration during a mushroom come-up and peak, it's not like LSD or MDMA where there's a mild to intense tension respectively, but a buzzy vibration. The only method I found of relieving this is meditation - it's almost as if the less 'in the body' consciousness is, the less the jaw vibration occurs.


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OfflineThimbleberry
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Re: Chattering teeth, Tight Jaw, Tremors, Help! [Re: Karuna]
    #26711739 - 06/01/20 03:25 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Yes that is exactly what its like for me too. I'm so curious about what causes this... and its comforting to know that many people experience this.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Chattering teeth, Tight Jaw, Tremors, Help! [Re: Thimbleberry]
    #26711830 - 06/01/20 04:26 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

you know the term lockjaw, which is the common name for tetanus, a disease people get often from open wounds after a rusty nail penetrates or some dog bite.
you usually have to get a tetanus shot in those cases.

what is tetanus? the muscles tighten up in the jaw due to a continuous pulse train series in the neurons that cause jaw muscle contraction. This pulse train is called tetany, hence tetanus.

Anyway longer pulse trains are typical of all psychedelics but they do not always cause endless smiles or tight jaws, unless you start smiling or chewing or grinding.

Usually we notice the effect of longer pulse trains (or slower fading (extended tetany) of sensory signals) giving rise to rich sensation and rich visual effects, but extended tetany also works for ideas, and thought loops as well as skeletal muscle contractions like Chattering teeth, Tight Jaw, Tremors.

The best thing is to steer your reverberant mind to something more interesting, because as long as you are involved with the effect it will tend to retrigger and the tetany will restart and become more annoying.  this is key to all issues with tripping, expect extension of anything in mind, and be aware that resistance is futile, it causes associative triggers that restart any looping. so you relax and find fascination in the next thing.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineThimbleberry
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Re: Chattering teeth, Tight Jaw, Tremors, Help! [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26732024 - 06/09/20 05:12 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

For any folks out there who are experiencing this and worrying about it, I wanted to return and say that I'm feeling better now! Not sure if It was all in my head or not, but my jaw and my state of mind are both back to normal :smile:. Thanks to everyone on the shroomery for being awesome and comforting!


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Chattering teeth, Tight Jaw, Tremors, Help! [Re: Thimbleberry]
    #26743750 - 06/14/20 09:48 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Well the OP got his answer, or got relief for now.
But it is also possible, that having blocked "energy channels", when a huge rush of energy is released, by psychedelics, is part of the issue.
If one reads some of the yoga literature about kundalini, one will find many warnings about exactly this issue.
Practitioners of eastern internal arts like Tai Chi Chuan and yoga take years to open such channels, so that more than usual energies can be safely utilized.

But other factors previously mentioned may also play a part. Who knows?


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Offlinejarjarbic
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Re: Chattering teeth, Tight Jaw, Tremors, Help! [Re: laughingdog]
    #26743781 - 06/14/20 10:05 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

the demons got you


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Chattering teeth, Tight Jaw, Tremors, Help! [Re: laughingdog]
    #26745567 - 06/15/20 04:47 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

energy channels are thought forms,  not medical issues.
providing scary warnings about energy channels is not a good idea.
the gullible among us could take you seriously.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Chattering teeth, Tight Jaw, Tremors, Help! [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26746062 - 06/15/20 09:41 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

A clever (even if snide & dogmatic) attack to be sure.


Edited by laughingdog (06/15/20 11:42 AM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Chattering teeth, Tight Jaw, Tremors, Help! [Re: laughingdog]
    #26746691 - 06/15/20 02:09 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

please do not take it as a personal swipe.

the channels or tubes, nerves, lymph etc. have all been mapped.
it's called anatomy. None of them are energy channels. the closest is nerves which conduct a signal using an ion pump and transmitters.

what people think of as energy channels is an explanation for sequences of sensations, which sometimes are hot, or cold or itchy, tight loose or crampy.

These sequences moving along the body are usually superficial but sometimes they are deep in the body where often it is gas.

Mumbo jumbo about energy channels (such as depicted in Alex Grey paintings) is  ok when people are seeing that on drugs, but energy channels is not a good explanation for what people are actually feeling, and a worse explanation when they are not feeling something anyway related to it. 

I love Alex Grey art and have often seen and felt beautiful lattice forms that are extremely similar to his depictions, cascading infinitely, but they are not true energy channels. They are constructs of my mind in response to everything happening at once while very stoned.

Sometimes people have trauma preventing their body from relaxing and this creates physical problems, but it is not from mysterious channels, it's real trauma in the mind that needs attention - creating physical tensions that support the trauma in some kind of feedback - therapy can often help that sort of thing.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Chattering teeth, Tight Jaw, Tremors, Help! [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26746735 - 06/15/20 02:34 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

You might read Gopi Krishna's biography, if you think kundalini is some sort of joke:

https://www.amazon.com/Kundalini-Evolutionary-Energy-Krishna-Gopi/dp/1570622809

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=gopi+krishna&t=hk&ia=web

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gopi_Krishna_(yogi)

Or any of various yoga texts that deal with kundalini.

.  Also anyone can experiment with the Wim Hof breathing technique (freely available online), and discover for themselves, at what point tetany occurs when starting, and then see if there is a change after some practice.
There is no need for a debate for these reasons:
1) a personal report by a respected Indian: "Gopi Krishna's initial experience triggered a transformative process that lasted for twelve years. During this time, the sensations of light, splendor and joy alternated with – and were often completely overshadowed by – sensations of fire, unbearable heat and bleak depression. In the introduction to Krishna's book..." which has been available since 1997, 
and 2) the fact that people can have their own safe experiences with tetany and any concomitant emotions that may or may not arise, from the connected breathing, with out reference to statements of opinion from internet posters.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Chattering teeth, Tight Jaw, Tremors, Help! [Re: laughingdog]
    #26747007 - 06/15/20 04:29 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

you misunderstand me, I have intimate knowledge of yoga and meditation since 1967.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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