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Offlinedeniskov
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The value of humanity & intellect
    #26703181 - 05/29/20 01:33 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I cant decide whether or not we're beneficial to the universe as a species.
On one hand we've fucked up the earth so bad it's like we're a bunch of parasites, and now we're even looking for new planets to invade.
But on the other hand we might well be the most intelligent life in the universe, so maybe its acceptable that we had to deplete Earth as a resource in order to evolve.

I asked my dad if he could be God and end humanity, would he? He said of course not cause we're too intelligent to just kill off.

But what's even the point of intellect? Smart people are boring and depressed for the most part anyways. Unless we get smart enough to escape the simulation we're in it seems kind of pointless doesnt it?

Every time I take mushrooms I look at my hands, my feet, and I just think "fuck, what am I? a dog? a fish? a monkey?" It feels so unnatural to be intelligent, and I want to just ignore that feeling and move on, but every trip it comes back and makes me wonder.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: deniskov] * 1
    #26703201 - 05/29/20 01:50 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Well, We are here aren’t we? 

You could ask the same question of any species that exists, or ever has existed, or ever will.
Non escape the mark of impermanence - so are they really necessary then?  I would say yes.  In the grand scheme of things were just babies (I’m terms of length of time on earth in our current form).  To erase us from existence in a flash, may be what happens, but another possibility is that we are necessary for the next iteration of evolution.  Prematurely annihilating humanity would then leave that stone forever unturned.  Plus, all things considered - I think the good and the bad balance out.  Ala - The unity of opposites.

We can display both aspects of parasitism & mutualism.  And the other forms of life we live with do the same.  If we were not the top of the food chain, something else would be.  Ex. Another evolved hominid that was the runner up perhaps - who is to say if they had gotten the better of
Us and survived , that things would be any better or worse?  Rather than just the same but different?

One can choose to let the mind’s faculties grow dull (like the intellect, or memory, etc) or you can develop them, hone/sharpen them, explore their limits and usefulness & it’s aid in creative endeavors, and survival.

Everyone has got it, but as you can see - not everyone has found a way to make it best serve themselves or others. 
Almost makes it seem like a Failure of the imagination is a crime.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (05/29/20 02:42 AM)


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26703239 - 05/29/20 02:09 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Humans are likely to cure any problem they have with technology..

Given enough time


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #26703477 - 05/29/20 04:40 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

we have the capacity to take care of the natural world around us and each other - to make improvements, and to maintain through seasons and disasters. some animals help us, some technology helps us, and some of us get in the way of doing good work, so we get organized around that.

the next 30 years of green energy, and hopefully of free education and other social support could make a big difference in our outlook.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: deniskov]
    #26705443 - 05/29/20 06:45 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

deniskov said:
Unless we get smart enough to escape the simulation we're in it seems kind of pointless doesnt it?




Maybe it's not intelligence we need to escape this simulation?

Quote:

deniskov said:
"fuck, what am I?




Maybe it's the answer to this question.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: Forrester]
    #26705453 - 05/29/20 06:48 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Stewardship of the natural world is highly underrated


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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Offlinedeniskov
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: Forrester]
    #26705827 - 05/29/20 09:31 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

It seems to me the only progress we're making is intellectual... everything else, religion, spirituality, has pretty much stood still.
If we don't have the answer today and it isn't attained through intellectual advancement, how can it ever be?


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: deniskov]
    #26705973 - 05/29/20 10:42 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Because the future is uncertain.. we therefore have allot of freedom in determining our course set destiny..

Just because we don't understand something now.. doesn't necessarily mean we can't in future have a grip.. a solid understanding of something..

In this case saving the Earth and upgrading our moral utility..


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OfflineMoses_Davidson
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: BrendanFlock] * 1
    #26706622 - 05/30/20 08:05 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Well our measurement of intelligence is somewhat biased towards humans. For all we know, some whales may have far more CPU power than us, which they could use in ways we may not think to measure.

I'd also wonder if our so-called intellect isn't just hubris. Sure, we are great at making tools, but what would happen if a more advanced alien race found us, but... might not even want to bother trying to communicate with us because we are proportionately so dumb. Would we try to talk to ants?

(OK, maybe some of us have tried talking to ants)

If the singularity happens, and artificial intelligence robots take over the world and enslave humanity, as the A.I. doubles its own intelligence every 90 days, and after hundreds of years of this, would our robot masters want to keep us around due to our intelligence? Or would they view us as ants?


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #26706626 - 05/30/20 08:08 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Moses_Davidson said:
but what would happen if a more advanced alien race found us, but... might not even want to bother trying to communicate with us because we are proportionately so dumb.




There are many books of channeled material that say this is precisely the case, but I suppose that's a whole different topic :lol:


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Offlinedeniskov
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #26707137 - 05/30/20 01:19 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

what would happen if a more advanced alien race found us, but... might not even want to bother trying to communicate with us because we are proportionately so dumb. Would we try to talk to ants?




That's an interesting point. We might not talk to ants, but we still interact with them. Kids squish them, pick them up, destroy anthills, feed them, so I'm pretty sure ants know about our existence as another living being, despite never communicating with us. If there were aliens significantly more intelligent than us, wouldn't they send some sort of sign? Just as a "hey, look, we're out here" kind of thing?


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: deniskov]
    #26707200 - 05/30/20 01:53 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

deniskov said:
If there were aliens significantly more intelligent than us, wouldn't they send some sort of sign? Just as a "hey, look, we're out here" kind of thing?




Imagine though that the aliens are far more advanced than us, and given our destructive nature and propensity towards fear, choose not to let their presence be known lest it cause us more harm than they wish to.  I mean it's possible.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: Forrester]
    #26707210 - 05/30/20 01:57 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Reminds me of the prime directive from Star Trek.  Or how bio experts, when working in the field, handle themselves by a certain code of conduct when studying a community of wild animals. As Hands off as possible, leaving of a little as footprint as possible, non-interference with the natural order of their community & state of affairs etc.  Basically trying to be as invisible as possible.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: Moses_Davidson] * 1
    #26707742 - 05/30/20 06:53 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Regarding AI as malevolent I must say.. a monitoring system with the possibility to truncate any bad, evil, or damaged code.. is a way to save us..


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #26708500 - 05/31/20 05:32 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BrendanFlock said:
Regarding AI as malevolent I must say.. a monitoring system with the possibility to truncate any bad, evil, or damaged code.. is a way to save us..



so you want an ai to determine if you are evil or not, thereby putting it on the judge's bench above us.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26708510 - 05/31/20 05:46 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Reminds me of the prime directive from Star Trek.  Or how bio experts, when working in the field, handle themselves by a certain code of conduct when studying a community of wild animals. As Hands off as possible, leaving of a little as footprint as possible, non-interference with the natural order of their community & state of affairs etc.  Basically trying to be as invisible as possible.




Exactly!

It seems reasonable to me that any life form more complex/advanced than the one it was observing could/would/should operate this way.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26710003 - 05/31/20 08:36 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

BrendanFlock said:
Regarding AI as malevolent I must say.. a monitoring system with the possibility to truncate any bad, evil, or damaged code.. is a way to save us..



so you want an ai to determine if you are evil or not, thereby putting it on the judge's bench above us.



Sorry if you mis read...

I'm saying we better have a delete button for wrong doings of the AI..


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #26710119 - 05/31/20 09:53 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

how can you undo death?


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: deniskov] * 1
    #26710157 - 05/31/20 10:28 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

deniskov said:
I cant decide whether or not we're beneficial to the universe as a species.





what an odd idea.

.    It contains so many unexamined assumptions...

just for fun consider apoptosis
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=apoptosis&t=hk&ia=definition
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=apoptosis
and the microbiome
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=microbiome

"Every time I take mushrooms I look at my hands, my feet, and I just think "fuck, what am I? a dog? a fish? a monkey?" It feels so unnatural to be intelligent, and I want to just ignore that feeling and move on, but every trip it comes back and makes me wonder."

of course you are not a fish! We are not as smart as we think we are. Humans are mostly motivated the same way all animals are. Don't ignore your feelings. Explore them while not tripping before tripping again. Wonder is good. Often better than answers. Have fun exploring, for yourself. Others answers may be right for them but not for you.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: laughingdog]
    #26710507 - 06/01/20 05:21 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I am not a fish either, but I might be a worm


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: redgreenvines] * 1
    #26710533 - 06/01/20 05:33 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

If we evolved from the sea then perhaps the OP recognizes the resemblance of his fingers to the cartilage in the fins of fish. I wonder what context is referred to in RGV's consideration that he might be a 'worm'.


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26710711 - 06/01/20 06:52 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Computer worm, duh. :tongue:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26710714 - 06/01/20 06:53 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

A) my gut tube
B) metaphor for stream of consciousness worming though time and space
C) close to the ground
D) makes a neat sound when squished
E) good shit meng!


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InvisiblePinkerton
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26710717 - 06/01/20 06:54 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

:magicfingers:


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: Pinkerton]
    #26710755 - 06/01/20 07:16 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Pinkerton said:
Computer worm, duh. :tongue:




My first thought was of a foul protuberance that lusted after the nether regions of women's underwear.


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26710783 - 06/01/20 07:37 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)



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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26710804 - 06/01/20 07:55 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

self improvement and applying death to it

and life

and calm and love

nd stretch

and bending anti-out of shape

and applying me

and applying same of what was there when death was

and rationality

and wanting to want

and good wanting/intention function

and me

and I want to live

and shroom idea

and bullshit

and light

and get back to where you once belonged

and more deadly

and more love

and patience

and mental mentality

and you are good

and beast

and taming beast

and existence

as in existenceness

that brings it back a little

and same things that were around you when death was

and wanting to want bringing it back


--------------------
with our love with our love we could save the world


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: Ferdinando]
    #26710823 - 06/01/20 08:02 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Ferdinando said:
self improvement and applying death to it

and life

and calm and love

nd stretch

and bending anti-out of shape

and applying me

and applying same of what was there when death was

and rationality

and wanting to want

and good wanting/intention function

and me

and I want to live

and shroom idea

and bullshit

and light

and get back to where you once belonged

and more deadly

and more love

and patience

and mental mentality

and you are good

and beast

and taming beast

and existence

as in existenceness

that brings it back a little

and same things that were around you when death was

and wanting to want bringing it back




A royal prick, by any definition.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26710840 - 06/01/20 08:10 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

buster, stop spewing your dick theme


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26710853 - 06/01/20 08:16 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

The pricks of arrows of outrageous fortune, by gawd!


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26711009 - 06/01/20 09:20 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

ok calm down


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Offlinedeniskov
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26712697 - 06/01/20 10:27 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

If we evolved from the sea then perhaps the OP recognizes the resemblance of his fingers to the cartilage in the fins of fish.



Exactly, sometimes when I trip I get a sense of being primal, my hands look like dog's paws, my feet feel like toad legs, my arms feel like they belong to a monkey. But I'm none of those, and to be honest I feel a little excluded because of that. We've evolved so much that it feels bizzare to consider ourselves animals anymore, and I guess that's giving me a bit of an identity crisis.


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: deniskov]
    #26713057 - 06/02/20 05:34 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

deniskov said:
Quote:

If we evolved from the sea then perhaps the OP recognizes the resemblance of his fingers to the cartilage in the fins of fish.



Exactly, sometimes when I trip I get a sense of being primal, my hands look like dog's paws, my feet feel like toad legs, my arms feel like they belong to a monkey. But I'm none of those, and to be honest I feel a little excluded because of that. We've evolved so much that it feels bizzare to consider ourselves animals anymore, and I guess that's giving me a bit of an identity crisis.




If I could prove that your consciousness could inhabit a squirrel or a bird then your argument would be moot. Sure you could say that a brain injury affects your consciousness and therefore consciousness is directly linked to the body, but if I could get Carlos Castaneda's teacher to show you the view from the eyes of a bird then you'd realize that you are not your body, but I can't right now so I guess my argument is moot.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The value of humanity & intellect [Re: Buster_Brown] * 1
    #26713316 - 06/02/20 07:58 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I like imagining my fingers forming into the wings of a big bat, and my feet gripping to branches.



Edited by redgreenvines (06/02/20 10:44 AM)


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