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InvisibleTantrika
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If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? * 1
    #26703129 - 05/29/20 01:10 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

This came up in another discussion where a user offered this input
in response to my pointing out that child abuse should not be equated with consenting adult sex
Quote:

redacted said:
A man molesting a young girl is preforming a heterosexual molestation of a child, objectively




what say you, Pub
If a grown man has never had sex in his life,
then somehow proceeds to have sex with a number of pre-pubescent little girls
without getting caught, beaten, and murdered for it as he should be

would you consider him to be as much of a heterosexual man
as a man who has sex with consenting adult women in his age group?
would you consider his actions to be indicative of what it means to be heterosexual more generally?

Keep in mind that this is an individual who has never had sex with a consenting adult
only with children too young to be able to consent
Is the child molestor as much of a heterosexual man as the one who has sex with consenting adult women?
You may choose only one
Are the actions of the child molestor indicative of heterosexuality more generally?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (05/28/20 10:59 PM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26703134 - 05/29/20 01:13 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Voted no to both

pedophilia is independent of heterosexuality or homosexuality
if someone has sex with only children, they are a pedophiliac and nothing more than that

do not feel the actions are indicative of heterosexuality more generally
because children have not developed the sex organs associated with sexual attraction
little girls do not have the features or capacities of grown women


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26703137 - 05/29/20 01:16 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I put STAL for both. Tough questions to answer with a definitivitive answer.

Its kinda like asking "Do young girls have a gender yet?".


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26703140 - 05/29/20 01:18 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
I put STAL for both. Tough questions to answer with a definitivitive answer.




wanted to STAL for both,
then tell everyone it is for She Tokes A Lot
:tantrika:

but seemed like it would be out of form for my own thread,
if asking for other peoples opinions on the matter, it is fair to share my own thoughts


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26703165 - 05/29/20 01:25 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Its kinda like asking "Do young girls have a gender yet?".




Oh, missed this
do not think it is the same thing

young girls can have an established gender identity, that is a social construct relating to how we navigate the world
but a young girl who plays house is not the same as a woman who can keep house

heterosexuality implies an attraction to people of the opposite sex from you
in order for that attraction to be there, it is my view that the characteristics of that sex need to be developed
a pre-pubescent girl may have been born with female genitalia, but they are not developed in a sexualized way
nor has her body reached the characteristics associated with reproductive success

cannot take the position that heterosexuality needs to be associated directly with reproductive success
as that would invalidate heterosexual couples who cannot reproduce for whatever reasons
but do feel that the attraction at least needs to be associated with the appropriate signifiers
and a child has not developed those signifiers


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InvisibleApples in Mono
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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: Tantrika] * 2
    #26703190 - 05/29/20 01:37 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I don't think our sexuality is defined by our actions at all. I think it's defined by our arousal, attraction, desires. A homosexual could go their entire life only banging people of the opposite sex and that wouldn't make them any less gay. Just as a virgin isn't necessarily an asexual


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: Apples in Mono]
    #26703197 - 05/29/20 01:46 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Apples in Mono said:
I don't think our sexuality is defined by our actions at all. I think it's defined by our arousal, attraction, desires. A homosexual could go their entire life only banging people of the opposite sex and that wouldn't make them any less gay. Just as a virgin isn't necessarily an asexual




Think this is a very valid point,
and think that the sentiment meshes over fairly well with my own position
regarding children not having the characteristics to produce heterosexual arousal

if the man in question only ever fantasizes about children
it is all the more difficult to establish a position with regards to developed individuals


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: Tantrika] * 2
    #26703202 - 05/29/20 01:51 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Tough question for sure. 

If the pedo likes a young female.  I would think it’s safe to say they are attracted to females, and for some unknown reason, little ones.
If they like young males , so on and so forth “ “ “ .

All heterosexuals are attracted to the opposite sex.

So, if a male(heterosexual) pedophile is attracted to a female child.  Therefore str8
If, a male pedophile is attracted to a male child.  Therefore gay

All homosexuals are attracted to the same sex,
 
So, if a female(Homo) pedophile is attracted to a female child.  Therefore gay
If, a female pedo is attracted to a male child.    Therefore str8

That’s just what happens via logical syllogism - which was more or less what i was attempting to draw.  It is simplistic, perhaps overly so, when dealing with complex human behavior & biology & more all simultaneously.


But when you factor in the more technical minutiae, it’s no longer as simple & it becomes more nuanced and complex.

For one, I don’t know what a pedo even considers themselves as, and two - if they are attracted to large older males or females and little ones - or just the little ones and not older larger ones.

We would have to know if a pedo was regular - normal growing up and attracted to m/f of their own age - but never acted on it for some reason, or if they always were attracted to children :shrug:

I think we may need a specialized psychologist for this shit.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26703203 - 05/29/20 01:53 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

An interesting point. Since under-developed girls havent mature into women, are they "less" of a woman? Are they more of a child than a girl?

Its interesting that under-developed boys kinda act like under-developed girls (high voices, sorta feminine looking). One could argue boys are less "gendered" to their adult counterparts than girls are, at least in my opinion.


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26703210 - 05/29/20 01:56 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
If the pedo likes a young female.  I would think it’s safe to say they are attracted to females, and for some unknown reason, little ones.




Am hesistant to hold to this view tho
if we were in the range of pubescent young females, would be of agreement
but that would also introduce the variable of pertaining to a different (tho still socially resented) group of men

but with pre-pubescent,
it would have to be some attraction to abstract concept of womanhood or femininity
because little girls may have characteristics like growing their hair longer than little boys at their parent's decision
but, for all intents and purposes, if you shaved a bunch of them bald and put them in matching robes you would not be able to tell the girls from the boys

whereas with adults in a monastic setting -- nuns can be hot bald women :lol:


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26703218 - 05/29/20 01:59 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
An interesting point. Since under-developed girls havent mature into women, are they "less" of a woman? Are they more of a child than a girl?




not necessarily more of a child than a girl
but more of a child than a woman

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Its interesting that under-developed boys kinda act like under-developed girls (high voices, sorta feminine looking). One could argue boys are less "gendered" to their adult counterparts than girls are, at least in my opinion.




it is also worth remembering that historically in a number of societies adult women were not allowed to perform
so young boys were castrated before puberty, so they could (continue to) perform female roles on stage and in song


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: Tantrika] * 1
    #26703231 - 05/29/20 02:02 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Monastic setting hmmm 🧐

I left that setting in part because I was too attracted to my female counter part - they could choose to not shave their heads during first 3 years of the noviatiate  :derfase: ....:sad:

I could tell who is a man or woman  after living with them, even with shaved heads and in full takahatsu gear - but it relied on smells, and pattern recognition, voice differences, etc - but inguess that doesn’t count bc I knew what they looked like and how they were before hand right?

In all seriousness though.  I have no idea.  I’m pretty dumb & unlearned when it comes to the nuances of this stuff.

So I see your point.  If they were of the same stature in body and dressed up all the same, yeah you couldn’t tell.

I’ll leave this question for those more adept.


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Edited by The Blind Ass (05/29/20 02:15 AM)


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #26703236 - 05/29/20 02:08 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
...
In all seriousness though.  I have no idea.  I’m pretty dumb & unlearned when it comes the nuances of this stuff.




Myself as well, seemingly

had totally taken my position on this for granted,
did not think someone would perceive sex with children as defining anything other than pedophilia
until receiving messages to the contrary

it is additionally difficult because it is something that is undesirable to consider in detail
do not want to know what goes through an abusers head that prompts them
remember that creepy scene in Con Air where the child rapist/murderer gets free and goes and finds a little girl
and they had this creepy distortion effect showing his focus on her as she sang and stuff


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: Tantrika] * 1
    #26703242 - 05/29/20 02:10 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Holy hell.  Con Air?!  :rofl:

Cage greatness?  Yeah I remember that gooby derpy gem.  And that scene, I watched that movie for the first time 2 weeks ago at the behest of another member here.


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: The Blind Ass] * 1
    #26703248 - 05/29/20 02:13 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

:lol:

saw it back in my high school days
used to spend weekends out at my girlfriend's house and wake up hours before her
so would watch movies with her mother in the living room, and that was one of her picks

dunno, that scene just stuck with and haunts me tho
she's just this little girl trying to make a friend and she encounters the worst possible monster she could
:sad:


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26703282 - 05/29/20 02:53 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah some scenes in movies u never forget. Like the last scene of Pulp Fiction. So fucked up in so many ways. I remeber seeing Con Air a loooong time ago but i dont remember that scene. That movie seems like it would be great for Conspiracy Theory research.

I didnt know that about child actors in the super old days. Thats crazy! Its like they were made Transgendered without their permission. Scary times those were.

I think the public associates Pedophilia with Male heterosexuals first, then Male Homosexuals then maybe Female teachers who seduce male students (that one I wish was me). I think Sheekle argued "Those female teachers are pedophiles!". I still remember that. I miss that guy.


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26703300 - 05/29/20 03:03 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

The Creepy Female Teacher Epidemic



the female teacher thing is particularly creepy, because there is more normalization around it than any other case
people who should know better celebrate teen boys getting raped, it is fucked

even you with your "I wish was me" xP


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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26703307 - 05/29/20 03:07 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Most people like to ignore it, but most of us when we were freshmen were competing in the social dating pool with seniors. Seniors tended do date freshmen. You think all those seniors just stopped dating freshmen the moment they turned 18 or graduated? I know a guy who girls found very attractive and he banged tons of freshmen when he was a senior and continued doing that well into his mid 20's and he slept with lots of girls who would lie about their age to him and when I was 16 He banged a girl who was like 13 or something and I said dude thats kinda messed up to him and he said so?

Long story short hes in his mid 30's right now and spends a lot of his time posting death to all pedophiles on facebook.


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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: budmanman]
    #26703310 - 05/29/20 03:09 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Also I will add that almost every girl I have ever dated opened up to me and most admitted to sleeping with much older men when they were 12 or 13.

Other than my current wife, every girl I have ever dated admitted these things to me.


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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: budmanman]
    #26703318 - 05/29/20 03:12 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

It was common for girls to date one grade above them i.e. a sophomore dating a junior. There was one senior dating a freshmen and everyone thought that dude was creepy.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26703320 - 05/29/20 03:12 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Lc,
Me and so many others were the same like that in high school. :shrug:  Dbl standards. More a fantasy joke bc of hot teachers - but wouldn’t mind if it actually happened and all that.  The other way around & other variations seem grotesque though.

Then there were the Guy & gurl seniors that only dated freshman - Yeah.  Like budman said, they are probably all fkd up by now.


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Invisiblebudmanman
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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: ONE OZ SLUG]
    #26703340 - 05/29/20 03:15 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ONE OZ SLUG said:
It was common for girls to date one grade above them i.e. a sophomore dating a junior. There was one senior dating a freshmen and everyone thought that dude was creepy.




at my school the freshmen were predominantly with seniors, the most common statement I would hear was, I want to date a "real man".

I think that means someone with a car and money to buy them shit.

Most the girls I went to school with are my friends on facebook now, most of them I see still dating significantly older than them. One girl who was known to sloot around with seniors when she was freshmen just broke up with her 55 year old boyfriend, shes 30ish. THe whole time they were together it was the same shit I heard these thots saying in highschool. She bragged endlessly how nice it is to date a real man and she hates dating younger guys blaw blaw blaw. Blows my mind. I had to find a girl outside of the USA couldn't deal with these crazy American girls. Most of them can't even date for a year straight with the same person.


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And I am mentally unstable.


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: budmanman] * 1
    #26703347 - 05/29/20 03:16 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

budmanman said:
Most people like to ignore it, but most of us when we were freshmen were competing in the social dating pool with seniors. Seniors tended do date freshmen. You think all those seniors just stopped dating freshmen the moment they turned 18 or graduated? I know a guy who girls found very attractive and he banged tons of freshmen when he was a senior and continued doing that well into his mid 20's and he slept with lots of girls who would lie about their age to him and when I was 16 He banged a girl who was like 13 or something and I said dude thats kinda messed up to him and he said so?

Long story short hes in his mid 30's right now and spends a lot of his time posting death to all pedophiles on facebook.




Yeah, think there is a definite skewing of data that takes place when accounting for underage sex in the form of teenagers
not meaning to minimize it as an issue, just recognize that the "sorts" of people associated with sexually abusing children under 10
are different from the much more common sort of individual that you refer to here

putting aside priests,
hear a lot of abuse from little league sports coaches
or other associations with extra curricular activities

think that cultural norms of perceived safety of boys being higher than that of girls
causes parents to unwittingly expose their children to abusers who use such mediums to prey on victims
whereas girls are almost "expected" to be targetted, and the parents are more protective

would not be surprised if data points showed that boys were more likely to be abused by someone outside the family while girls were more likely to be abused by family members


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: budmanman] * 2
    #26703349 - 05/29/20 03:17 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Nice bud.

Damn Tantrika.. You just reminded me, at my high school we had 2 teachers (males) get fired for doing stuff with students. Possibly even 1 female teacher to.... Jesus thats a lot.  Also potentially a Catholic priest who was like a VP or principal for a decade..not 100% on the last 2 tho , they left under mysterious hush hush protocols. Holy fuck.

1 was a coach for a woman’s sports team, the other was like a history or English prof or something.  I always knew the English guy was going to go to jail one day.  He exuded it.  Oh private catholic school - what a trip.


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: budmanman]
    #26703357 - 05/29/20 03:18 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

budmanman said:
Also I will add that almost every girl I have ever dated opened up to me and most admitted to sleeping with much older men when they were 12 or 13.

Other than my current wife, every girl I have ever dated admitted these things to me.




have known a number of girls who have been in this situation as well
and basically all of them were fans of the book Lolita
so maybe a character trait? 
or maybe just a pattern of abuse that brings them into a similar headspace?


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: ONE OZ SLUG]
    #26703364 - 05/29/20 03:20 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ONE OZ SLUG said:
It was common for girls to date one grade above them i.e. a sophomore dating a junior. There was one senior dating a freshmen and everyone thought that dude was creepy.




Similar story at my high school
fun fact tho -- creepy dude also ended up in jail about a year ago being caught with child pornography

fuck him


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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: Tantrika] * 1
    #26703368 - 05/29/20 03:20 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Most girls tend to like older guys. It's extremely common and I think it is an evolutionary trait.

One rational is that an older man tends to be a better more experienced provide to take care of children they bear.

But any explanation for why is mostly speculation.


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And I am mentally unstable.


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InvisibleONE OZ SLUG
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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: budmanman]
    #26703373 - 05/29/20 03:22 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

That's weird man. If it's really that common, then maybe it was happening a lot at my high school as well. Don't remember it too well being 12 years out of it now.

A year or two difference was pretty common. Senior and freshmen is like four years. For some people that's nearly a physical adult and a kid barely into puberty.

And @OP, I never thought of pedophilia being separated from hetero/homosexuality. If a person is a pedophile, then he can be a heterosexual pedophile, or a homosexual pedophile. But really, they're just rapists since a child cannot give consent. I never really put too much thought into it personally.


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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26703375 - 05/29/20 03:23 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

ONE OZ SLUG said:
It was common for girls to date one grade above them i.e. a sophomore dating a junior. There was one senior dating a freshmen and everyone thought that dude was creepy.




Similar story at my high school
fun fact tho -- creepy dude also ended up in jail about a year ago being caught with child pornography

fuck him




The guy at my higschool wasn't creepy he was extremely popular, had an expensive sports car and was extremely muscular, strong, six pack abs, chizzle jawed and just generally handsome girls flocked to him, he regularly had multiple girlfriends at once and would keep it secret from them all, hed get caught cheating all the time and they would always forgive him for it, one girl caught him cheating 10 times before she broke up with him when he was 20.

What separates the creepy guy in the work place from the non creepy guy?

Looks.


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And I am mentally unstable.


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26703376 - 05/29/20 03:23 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Lc,
Me and so many others were the same like that in high school. :shrug:  Dbl standards. More a fantasy joke bc of hot teachers - but wouldn’t mind if it actually happened and all that.  The other way around & other variations seem grotesque though.

Then there were the Guy & gurl seniors that only dated freshman - Yeah.  Like budman said, they are probably all fkd up by now.




The double standards is an interesting factor
but really encourage watching the video
Sh0e selected a number of cases of boys who ended up damaged, regretful, etc.

she also reads tweets from one of her own fans who went through extensive abuse and tried to kill himself on seven occasions

basically, the normalization from jokes and social perceptions means that guys who already have less tools to work through these sort of things
are further limited in their ability to get help when it is most meaningful


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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: budmanman] * 1
    #26703378 - 05/29/20 03:24 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)



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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: budmanman]
    #26703381 - 05/29/20 03:25 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Ha


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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26703382 - 05/29/20 03:25 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Nice bud.

Damn Tantrika.. You just reminded me, at my high school we had 2 teachers (males) get fired for doing stuff with students. Possibly even 1 female teacher to.... Jesus thats a lot.  Also potentially a Catholic priest who was like a VP or principal for a decade..not 100% on the last 2 tho , they left under mysterious hush hush protocols. Holy fuck.

1 was a coach for a woman’s sports team, the other was like a history or English prof or something.  I always knew the English guy was going to go to jail one day.  He exuded it.  Oh private catholic school - what a trip.




Sounds like you had some real adventures
biggest nontroversy at my high school was a couple of the science teachers would get high together and smoked up with some former students
Bio teacher was pretty hilarious; big Pantera and metal fan


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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26703384 - 05/29/20 03:25 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

budmanman said:
Also I will add that almost every girl I have ever dated opened up to me and most admitted to sleeping with much older men when they were 12 or 13.

Other than my current wife, every girl I have ever dated admitted these things to me.




have known a number of girls who have been in this situation as well
and basically all of them were fans of the book Lolita
so maybe a character trait? 
or maybe just a pattern of abuse that brings them into a similar headspace?





In college, I learned that most child sexual abusers were abused as kids themselves. It creates a vicious cycle of being abused then becoming abusers themselves. A sad reality :nonono:

Ive had several girlfriends talk about childhood sexual experiences. I would say its pretty common. It was also my experience in middle school that girls seemed more "sexual" than the boys in the way they acted, at least that what it seemed.


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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: budmanman] * 1
    #26703388 - 05/29/20 03:28 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

budmanman said:
Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

ONE OZ SLUG said:
It was common for girls to date one grade above them i.e. a sophomore dating a junior. There was one senior dating a freshmen and everyone thought that dude was creepy.




Similar story at my high school
fun fact tho -- creepy dude also ended up in jail about a year ago being caught with child pornography

fuck him




The guy at my higschool wasn't creepy he was extremely popular, had an expensive sports car and was extremely muscular, strong, six pack abs, chizzle jawed and just generally handsome girls flocked to him, he regularly had multiple girlfriends at once and would keep it secret from them all, hed get caught cheating all the time and they would always forgive him for it, one girl caught him cheating 10 times before she broke up with him when he was 20.

What separates the creepy guy in the work place from the non creepy guy?

Looks.




creepy dude in my case was into underage anime girls and shit even in high school
creepy interests

in retrospect, it is kind of surprising it took so long for him to get nailed for something
apparently what got attention on him in the first place was he shared a bit of his child porn on facebook


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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: Tantrika] * 1
    #26703395 - 05/29/20 03:34 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:
Sounds like you had some real adventures




it’s own mini version of Apocalypse Now.


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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26703401 - 05/29/20 03:37 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

budmanman said:
Also I will add that almost every girl I have ever dated opened up to me and most admitted to sleeping with much older men when they were 12 or 13.

Other than my current wife, every girl I have ever dated admitted these things to me.




have known a number of girls who have been in this situation as well
and basically all of them were fans of the book Lolita
so maybe a character trait? 
or maybe just a pattern of abuse that brings them into a similar headspace?





In college, I learned that most child sexual abusers were abused as kids themselves. It creates a vicious cycle of being abused then becoming abusers themselves. A sad reality :nonono:




Yeah, think that the abuse prolly leads to patterns of thought and behaviour that result in not understanding healthy sexual relationships
that is the challenge -- getting people recovered before they end up in a place to abuse

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Ive had several girlfriends talk about childhood sexual experiences. I would say its pretty common. It was also my experience in middle school that girls seemed more "sexual" than the boys in the way they acted, at least that what it seemed.




My very first girlfriend was abused by a man down the street in her childhood
my second had multiple guys she dated try to force her to do things, and was jumpy

can go on this trail, but yeah, it is the case for me as well that the majority of my partners have faced issues
statistically speaking, 1 in 3 women in Canada have been sexually assaulted -- if you have a sister, a mother, and a grandmother by the numbers it has been at least one of them

when the scope is opened to include teenagers, the data flips
girls become a lot more likely to be victims of abuse or rape


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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: Tantrika] * 2
    #26703409 - 05/29/20 03:41 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I see an indirect trans angle to this. A child is a person, not in a state of being, but a person during a stage in the transition to adult.

So, if you are only attracted to a person DURING the transition, and not pre-transition or post-transition, is that a valid sexual orientation?

I say nay.

You are attracted, not to the person but to the transitional p0hase itself. You didnt dig them before the transition and lose interest in them after they transitioned towards what they NEED TO BE. Are you even an ALLY if pre-transition and post-transition Trans people dont interest you? I think not.

Liking an ASPECT of a person, especially a fleeting aspect of a person, instead of the person, is not a sexual orientation but a fetish. You fetishize that aspect of them rather than focussing on them.

A pedophile, which is a person attracted to pre pubescent children, loses interest in that person when they hit pubescent age or a little bit after.

That is not an orientation but a FETISH, a KINK.

And that is great news because unlike orientations, kinks can be learned and unlearned.

Someone obsessed with red high heels can learn to love the woman too, and then get into a heterosexual relationship (or gay or bi if they are that) and get their fulfillment from that, instead of rubbing their dick over just a pair of high heels in a box under their bed.

People have an orientation (heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual and asexual) and they have kinks. Kinks can be learned and unlearned, and the focus on them can shift.

Pedophilia is a kink, because you are sexually infatuated with, not the person but a narrow band of perhaps 5% of that person's age range. That aint love of the person themselves.

People with a sexual orientation have an age range they prefer but once they find love they want to grow old together. Pedophiles grow out of their crush in a mere few years because the more developed body now turns them off. That is objectification, and thats good news because it means pedophiles can be cured if they manage to shift the emphasis ofr their kinks and focus more on their orientation.

Before anyone gets smart and says "what about asexual pedophiles, they don't have an orientation to fall back on." well Einstein, there are no sexually active pedophiles so they just like being around kids with absolutely no sex involved, which is not a pedophile.


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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26703420 - 05/29/20 03:49 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

budmanman said:
Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

ONE OZ SLUG said:
It was common for girls to date one grade above them i.e. a sophomore dating a junior. There was one senior dating a freshmen and everyone thought that dude was creepy.




Similar story at my high school
fun fact tho -- creepy dude also ended up in jail about a year ago being caught with child pornography

fuck him




The guy at my higschool wasn't creepy he was extremely popular, had an expensive sports car and was extremely muscular, strong, six pack abs, chizzle jawed and just generally handsome girls flocked to him, he regularly had multiple girlfriends at once and would keep it secret from them all, hed get caught cheating all the time and they would always forgive him for it, one girl caught him cheating 10 times before she broke up with him when he was 20.

What separates the creepy guy in the work place from the non creepy guy?

Looks.




creepy dude in my case was into underage anime girls and shit even in high school
creepy interests

in retrospect, it is kind of surprising it took so long for him to get nailed for something
apparently what got attention on him in the first place was he shared a bit of his child porn on facebook




people into anime girls tend to be virgins and incels.


--------------------
Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal.

And I am mentally unstable.


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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: Asante] * 2
    #26703422 - 05/29/20 03:50 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Think that the kink angle is a really insightful factor, thank you for that
would not have come to that as a place of classification myself, due to thinking of kinks as non-harmful sexual fetishes
but you are correct, people can get hung up on really negative manifestations of fetishization, as well


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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: budmanman]
    #26703425 - 05/29/20 03:52 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

budmanman said:
Quote:

Tantrika said:
creepy dude in my case was into underage anime girls and shit even in high school
creepy interests

in retrospect, it is kind of surprising it took so long for him to get nailed for something
apparently what got attention on him in the first place was he shared a bit of his child porn on facebook




people into anime girls tend to be virgins and incels.




he had multiple girlfriends who had to get abortions while we were in high school because he refused to wear a condom


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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26703426 - 05/29/20 03:53 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Theres definitely some negative/harmful/unethic kinks out there. Like kidnapping, violent "play" and of course rape. Its a creepy wold out there.....


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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26703433 - 05/29/20 03:56 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Theres definitely some negative/harmful/unethic kinks out there. Like kidnapping, violent "play" and of course rape. Its a creepy wold out there.....




would not consider violent play to be unethical or harmful
you can have bloodshed take place with leather and whips
as long as all parties agree on and adhere to what the limits are


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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26703439 - 05/29/20 03:58 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I guess i meant "unsolicited" violent play (physical abuse?) where the other person was not expecting any violent play but there was anyway, if that makes sense.


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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26703441 - 05/29/20 04:01 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
I guess i meant "unsolicited" violent play (physical abuse?) where the other person was not expecting any violent play but there was anyway, if that makes sense.




that is fair, appreciate the clarification
yeah, sadism can definitely have negative manifestations
just do not think it is inherently negative in a way that rape meets my perception as such

tho, to be fair, recall Crystal G posting about consensual rape play on at least one occasion
and while it is certainly not something for me to dabble in,
there may be some sort of outlet for healthy release or exploring difficult memories with someone trusted


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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: Tantrika] * 2
    #26703443 - 05/29/20 04:02 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
If the pedo likes a young female.  I would think it’s safe to say they are attracted to females, and for some unknown reason, little ones.




Am hesistant to hold to this view tho
if we were in the range of pubescent young females, would be of agreement
but that would also introduce the variable of pertaining to a different (tho still socially resented) group of men

but with pre-pubescent,
it would have to be some attraction to abstract concept of womanhood or femininity
because little girls may have characteristics like growing their hair longer than little boys at their parent's decision
but, for all intents and purposes, if you shaved a bunch of them bald and put them in matching robes you would not be able to tell the girls from the boys
whereas with adults in a monastic setting -- nuns can be hot bald women :lol:




I think it's true that they could have a hard time distinguishing between a prepubescent boy & girl, under the right circumstances. But I think that would actually be true of some adults as well. But I think I get where you're coming from, because I think it's tough to pin down solid definitions for sexual preference labels in general.

I don't think it's necessarily dependent upon the genitals of those who arouse us, because, for example, a straight person could be aroused by someone who only presents as the opposite sex or who lost they're external organs in a freak accident. And internal organs are rarely even seen. One might be inclined to define it based on gender expression, but I wouldn't call a dude gay because his wife doesn't wear makeup and she dresses like I do. I think gender identity is also out, because I would still be sexually attracted to my girlfriend if she said she identifies as a man, and that wouldn't make me gay or bisexual.

So what's left? It seems to me that what's left is only our own personal perceptions of the sex of others, and doesn't necessarily have anything to with the sex or gender of others at all. A heterosexual isn't someone who is only sexually attracted to people of the opposite sex or gender. A heterosexual is someone who is only sexually attracted to people they BELIEVE to be of the opposite sex or gender. And the people they're attracted to don't even necessarily need to be real people. They can be virtual, or completely imaginary.

I do get the hesitation to wanna categorize them with traditional labels, but I don't know that I have any suggestions for more useful terms to distinguish pedophiles based on their preferences among children of different sexes or genders. What do I call a pedophile who is only aroused by prepubescent girls(or at least children he BELIEVES to be girls)?


On a bit of a side note, I think it might be worth pointing out that there are many pedophiles who never touch a child, and there are also many people who sexually abuse young children, yet aren't actually pedophiles


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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: Apples in Mono] * 1
    #26703459 - 05/29/20 04:21 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Apples in Mono said:
Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
If the pedo likes a young female.  I would think it’s safe to say they are attracted to females, and for some unknown reason, little ones.




Am hesistant to hold to this view tho
if we were in the range of pubescent young females, would be of agreement
but that would also introduce the variable of pertaining to a different (tho still socially resented) group of men

but with pre-pubescent,
it would have to be some attraction to abstract concept of womanhood or femininity
because little girls may have characteristics like growing their hair longer than little boys at their parent's decision
but, for all intents and purposes, if you shaved a bunch of them bald and put them in matching robes you would not be able to tell the girls from the boys
whereas with adults in a monastic setting -- nuns can be hot bald women :lol:




I think it's true that they could have a hard time distinguishing between a prepubescent boy & girl, under the right circumstances. But I think that would actually be true of some adults as well. But I think I get where you're coming from, because I think it's tough to pin down solid definitions for sexual preference labels in general.




The truth in the case of adults is where a big part of this comes from for me
as pansexuality is considered to be applied to attraction to non-binary or "non-typical" gender identities

so sexual attraction to ambigious identity is not itself heterosexuality or homosexuality; and while bisexuality is typically considered to cover binary trans people, it is not the label applied here

Quote:

Apples in Mono said:
I don't think it's necessarily dependent upon the genitals of those who arouse us, because, for example, a straight person could be aroused by someone who only presents as the opposite sex or who lost they're external organs in a freak accident. And internal organs are rarely even seen. One might be inclined to define it based on gender expression, but I wouldn't call a dude gay because his wife doesn't wear makeup and she dresses like I do. I think gender identity is also out, because I would still be sexually attracted to my girlfriend if she said she identifies as a man, and that wouldn't make me gay or bisexual.




do not have anything to really add here, just want to preserve the content for posterity sake as it is worthwhile

Quote:

Apples in Mono said:
So what's left? It seems to me that what's left is only our own personal perceptions of the sex of others, and doesn't necessarily have anything to with the sex or gender of others at all. A heterosexual isn't someone who is only sexually attracted to people of the opposite sex or gender. A heterosexual is someone who is only sexually attracted to people they BELIEVE to be of the opposite sex or gender. And the people they're attracted to don't even necessarily need to be real people. They can be virtual, or completely imaginary.




While agreeing with this
the only "problem" is tracing back to what you hinted at in your first comment
there are instances of people who believe they are attracted to the opposite sex because that is what society has inundated
then they have enough sex with members of the opposite sex that they go "this isn't for me"
and they sort of briefly enter into a new sexual identity with the intention of exploring to find what they like

and do not see a pedophile who only engages with children as having an opportunity to experience that level of exploration

Quote:

Apples in Mono said:
I do get the hesitation to wanna categorize them with traditional labels, but I don't know that I have any suggestions for more useful terms to distinguish pedophiles based on their preferences among children of different sexes or genders. What do I call a pedophile who is only aroused by prepubescent girls(or at least children he BELIEVES to be girls)?




see, my only perception of such an individual is as a pedophile
and that was part of my reasoning for describing the imagined case in such a way (ie: has targetted multiple children, but has adhered to a social gender identity in selection of victims)

do not normally think of an abuser as being a particular "type" of abuser
but perhaps the scope of my classification is too broad as it stands

Quote:

Apples in Mono said:
On a bit of a side note, I think it might be worth pointing out that there are many pedophiles who never touch a child, and there are also many people who sexually abuse young children, yet aren't actually pedophiles




Yeah, this is a fair point
and perhaps it would have been better for sussing out the real issue for me if having used more accomodating language to reflect such
as established, attraction vs. action already has its own flaws


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Re: If a man only ever has sex with little girls, do you consider him a heterosexual man? [Re: Asante] * 2
    #26703502 - 05/29/20 05:08 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I'm active in a roleplaying community online that is focussed on BDSM. Like all online BDSM communities, we are plagued by the fact that there are 10x more subs than Dom/mes.

BDSM has 3 inclinations:

DOMINANT (just be the Master/Mistress)
SUBMISSIVE (just be the slave)
SWITCH (people who can be either, mood permitting)

Because "everybody" is a sub, all lids and no jars, little un/screwing action happens. :naughty:

What I have managed to do on several occasions is to help people, who were hardcore subs "who could NEVER enjoy the Dom role" learn to discover the Switch in them, to acquire the kink of serving the other by catering to their needs to be dommed. They now can enjoy Domming others on occasion, and this makes them a lot more popular with Doms too, to Dom someone who sometimes Doms, themselves. So they ironically get Dommed more too!

How the FUCK is this possible?

Your sexual orientation are default settings, or extremely ingrained programming, thats up to you, but Dom or sub inclination are kinks, they are more superficially coded in the brain. That code is subject to deliberate reprogramming if you have the person's full cooperation. If Allan Carr can talk you out of smoking (hitler was very good at that too, no lie!), you can reprogram your kink, or do so with the help of a friend.

The hardest thing about it is the deeply ingrained notion that "I am sub, I cannot change". once you break that up, its fairly easy.

Take heterosexuality. a straight guy whos watched enough porn might develop the thought "wow, if I were a girl I'd suck his dick so hard the mattress crept up his ass! That is one fine dick!" :rotfl:

For cis-heteros though, genders are non-interchangable roles.

In BDSM, anyone can be Dom and anyone can be sub. They ARE interchangable roles because its a kink. Everyone who is BDSM inclined has appreciation for both sides of the dynamic. They love the sub being Yin and the Dom/me being YANG. They can imagine to flip the script, and they can succeed in enjoying flipping the script.

Its kink, you can program that at will. You can  train yourself to get a boner in response to how Goofy talks. It would get you in trouble at Disney world but, see what I'm saying?

EVERYTHING can be made into a kink, ESPECIALLY the opposite side of the dynamic you love so much.

If the appreciation of a dynamic is in you, both sides of the duality are in you, and you can always develop a completely unrelated kink that becomes as fulfilling as the one you seek to shift the attention away from that could get you or others in trouble, like dogshit eating, exposing yourself in public, rape inclinations and pedophilia.




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