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deniskov
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Agar Failures
#26703066 - 05/29/20 12:29 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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So I've been learning mushroom cultivation for about a year now, only had one semi-successful grow that yielded 50g wet (PE6) and I really want to get good at agar.
I've looked at many agar formulas and have gotten the impression that there is a good amount of leeway for agar contents. That is, in a range of 4-8g of carbs (potato flakes) and 1-3g of agar per 100ml water, pretty much anything will do.
Yet whenever I make my agar, it never grows from syringes, only sometimes grows from spores, and always grows mold and bacteria. Contamination is not a problem though; all my dishes survive at least a week. Is there anything I may be overlooking, perhaps temperature (its 70-80F here) or other external factors?
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Apples in Mono
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Re: Agar Failures [Re: deniskov] 1
#26703095 - 05/29/20 12:50 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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How many different syringes have you tried, from how many sources? What's your inoculation procedure?
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Fractal420
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Never grows from syringes? How much do you use? What conditions do you prep the agar in?
Usually one syringe drop should germinate well
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Machiavelliavore
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Re: Agar Failures [Re: deniskov] 1
#26703294 - 05/29/20 02:59 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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4-8g carb per 100ml is real rich. Try to stick around 1.5-3g carb + sugar. 2g of agar is a good place to start. Mold spores might take 7 days to germinate depending on temp and spore load. Your plates should easily last a month, clean as a whistle. I've been liking 1% potato flakes, 1.5% dextrose (corn sugar,) and 2% agar lately.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21176491 Good info on agar recipes.
Edited by Machiavelliavore (05/29/20 03:00 AM)
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ModularMind
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Quote:
Machiavelliavore said: 4-8g carb per 100ml is real rich. .

Yikes
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Bobbit
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Photos will help heaps. . .
I've been rocking 1.5% agar and lme. . . Getting really good results. . . Malt is an awsome nute source as it has a complex profile. . .
Silly question, are you wrapping your plates. . .
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TrippyMomp



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Re: Agar Failures [Re: Bobbit]
#26703724 - 05/29/20 07:40 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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A company sent me regular malt extra ct would that work instead of light malt extract ?: can I just use less
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PMBastian
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i think it will only make your agar darker and less clear. don't think there's more nutrients in regular ME.
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spirit_shadow
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Have you tried Pastyplates?
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deniskov
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Quote:
How many different syringes have you tried, from how many sources?
about 7 different syringes from 2 sources, most of which grew well on WBS but none grew on agar.
Quote:
What's your inoculation procedure?
I pour 400ml of boiling water into a 500ml mason jar, add about 5g potato flakes (have a little bit of added salt and buttermilk), 2g pure honey, 2g agar, pressure cook 30 min, then pour to plates in a SAB following sterile procedure. Then wrap with micropore tape and done.
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deniskov
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Re: Agar Failures [Re: deniskov]
#26704083 - 05/29/20 09:47 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Never grows from syringes? How much do you use? What conditions do you prep the agar in? Usually one syringe drop should germinate well
Never, I've tried everywhere from 1 drop to 5. I've posted my procedure right above, otherwise conditions are pretty normal, everything sprayed with isopropyl, etc.
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ModularMind
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Re: Agar Failures [Re: deniskov]
#26704117 - 05/29/20 09:58 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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So 1/2 a gram of agar per 100ml?
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micelio
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Re: Agar Failures [Re: deniskov]
#26704176 - 05/29/20 10:18 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I been using grain water for a few years now. (Oats) Works great.
A simple and cheap recipe. 500 ml. grain water. 10 grams agar. makes 25 plates @ 20 ml. per plate.


I never use syringes just prints..
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deniskov
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I have tried pastyplates and while they contaminate much less they still dont grow from syringes for me 
Quote:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21176491 Good info on agar recipes.
Link doesnt work for me, i get an error page with "There was a problem looking up the post in our database." What do you use for carbs? I'll try less next time.
will this work for LME? https://www.amazon.ca/Home-Brew-Ohio-Organic-DME-Maltoferm/dp/B007XYGBXQ/
Heres some pics; the first is my attempt with 6% carbs, 1% honey, 3 diff types of syringes, the rest are with spores
  
Edited by deniskov (05/29/20 10:35 AM)
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deniskov
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Quote:
So 1/2 a gram of agar per 100ml?
no sorry those were all measurements per 100g of water, so it would be 8g agar 8g honey and 20g carbs in that case.
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deniskov
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Re: Agar Failures [Re: micelio]
#26704226 - 05/29/20 10:39 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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How does grain water work? You boil oats and then use the leftover water? how long do you boil for? whats the oat to water ratio? doesn't it just turn into oatmeal? 
sexy agar pics you got there
Edited by deniskov (05/29/20 10:42 AM)
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PMBastian
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Re: Agar Failures [Re: deniskov]
#26704535 - 05/29/20 12:37 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
deniskov said: How does grain water work? You boil oats and then use the leftover water? how long do you boil for? whats the oat to water ratio? doesn't it just turn into oatmeal? 
sexy agar pics you got there
I use the water i cook my oats in when i hydrate them to make grain spawn. I save the oat water every 10th time maybe, that way i have plenty in my freezer for agar or LC. I even water my grain water down 50:50 with tap water, and it seems to work great.
I've had troubles germinating with some syringes as well, gonna try softer agar next time. My current batch is 2% agar.
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Machiavelliavore
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Re: Agar Failures [Re: deniskov]
#26704725 - 05/29/20 01:52 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
deniskov said:
Quote:
So 1/2 a gram of agar per 100ml?
no sorry those were all measurements per 100g of water, so it would be 8g agar 8g honey and 20g carbs in that case.
What? That's 8% agar, 8% honey, and 20% carbs. Don't do that.
2g agar per 100ml water for 2%. With 100ml it's really simple, your grams are the same as your percentages: So like, you want 100ml of 1% potato, 1.5% dextrose, 2% agar plates. Your recipe is 100ml of water, 1g potato, 1.5g dextrose, 2g agar. You want 500ml instead, multiply everything by 5.
psilicon's agar info post Maybe hyperlink repost will work?
--------------------
I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
Edited by Machiavelliavore (05/29/20 01:54 PM)
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micelio
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Re: Agar Failures [Re: deniskov]
#26704941 - 05/29/20 03:24 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
deniskov said: How does grain water work? You boil oats and then use the leftover water? how long do you boil for? whats the oat to water ratio? doesn't it just turn into oatmeal? 
sexy agar pics you got there
I'll tell you exactly how I do It.
4 quarts of dry oats pre-rinse and drain.
I put the oats In my 23 quart presto.
add 6 quarts of water.
Turn heat on hi for 35 minutes and then off with the heat.
Pull a dozen oats from the pot and cut them in two with scissors, If they're white in the center boil a little longer until no more white centers.
When oats are done I take a soup ladle and scoop out an much liquid as possible to lighten the load.
Then drain the rest of the grain water into a empty glass qt. jar.
This recipe makes ten myco jars of hydrated oats.
you should have a couple quarts of grain water for agar dishes. I store the grain water In the fridge or freeze It up for a later date.
Just a side note: I dry my hydrated oat for 3 to 5 hour in the sun and wind. It's a good idea to spread them out as thin as possible. I use a wooden frame with nylon screen stapled to It. It's a good Idea to rake and spread out every 30 minutes. Super dry oats are happening. with less bacteria.
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Bobbit
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Quote:
TrippyMomp said: A company sent me regular malt extra ct would that work instead of light malt extract ?: can I just use less
The colour is dependent on how long the sugars have been ‘malted’. The same strength with regards to nutes, just less available to myc as the sugars are more caramelised. . . Should work okay, especially with future transfers as the myc gets comfortable producing the correct digestive enzymes.
@micelio Grain water will work fine at the right concentrations. . . And there’s the rub. . .
You don’t know what concentration your grain water is, and its different each time. . . This will still grow myc, but you won’t get ‘consistent’ results.
Quote:
ModularMind said: So 1/2 a gram of agar per 100ml?
This will make you 0.5% agar. . . Too soft for most peeps, hard to transfer from. . .
1.5g/100ml will give you 1.5% 👍
@deniskov, It appears that your problem may be coming from your wrapping, and the reason for asking for photos. . . I had this problem when starting with petri. . .
Your petri seem to be wrapped with masking tape and some look to have gaps in the taping? I use cling wrap (glad, as we don’t get Saran here) with a minimum of 2 layers. . . You want GE without any other spores getting through. . .
Heat your syringe tip to red hot before using (cool with baby squirt) and place one drop on a plate. . . Spread with flame sterilised loop or scalpel. . . Wrap immediately after session in SAB. . . Try to avoid touching the ‘Edges’ of the lids when handling. . . If using cling wrap, cut a ‘mini roll’ with a super sharp blade. . . Use the inside face off the roll as this is sterile. . .
Edited by Bobbit (05/29/20 04:29 PM)
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deniskov
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okay sorry ill be ultra clear this time: the original measurements I gave, 5g carbs, 2g agar, and 2g honey were all per 100ml water. in the same paragraph though I mentioned I used 400ml water, so in that specific case i used 20g carbs, 8g agar, and 8g honey. the link works now, thanks, though it turned out to be my most visited shroomery page
I've never heard of only 1% carbs, is that saturated enough? After reading this post - https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19739087 - I got the idea that 6% was the ideal carb amount Where do you get dextrose?
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deniskov
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Re: Agar Failures [Re: Bobbit]
#26705802 - 05/29/20 09:21 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I use micropore tape, does saran wrap allow for GE?
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Gan
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Re: Agar Failures [Re: deniskov]
#26705806 - 05/29/20 09:22 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah I'd recommend either cling/saran wrap or parafilm. I like cling wrap personally.
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ModularMind
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Re: Agar Failures [Re: deniskov]
#26705848 - 05/29/20 09:39 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
deniskov said: Where do you get dextrose?
In the sweetener section of your local grocer.
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Machiavelliavore
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Re: Agar Failures [Re: deniskov]
#26706171 - 05/30/20 01:10 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
deniskov said: okay sorry ill be ultra clear this time: the original measurements I gave, 5g carbs, 2g agar, and 2g honey were all per 100ml water. in the same paragraph though I mentioned I used 400ml water, so in that specific case i used 20g carbs, 8g agar, and 8g honey. the link works now, thanks, though it turned out to be my most visited shroomery page
I've never heard of only 1% carbs, is that saturated enough? After reading this post - https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19739087 - I got the idea that 6% was the ideal carb amount Where do you get dextrose?
You'll find almost nobody on this forum who uses above 3% total nutrients. Sorry I took you out of context, but with 7% nutrients you're right around what the top of what's usable. Higher nutrients tend to give dense bright white growth, but quite slow.
Brewing stores are a good place to find dextrose (corn sugar) as well as various malt extracts. A respectable bag of either should be under 5$.
--------------------
I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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deniskov
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Hmm. I'll definitely have to try it out with less nutrients then. Thanks for the brewing store tip, I've been searching on amazon and anything respectable is at least $50
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Bobbit
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Re: Agar Failures [Re: deniskov]
#26707369 - 05/30/20 03:39 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
deniskov said: Hmm. I'll definitely have to try it out with less nutrients then. Thanks for the brewing store tip, I've been searching on amazon and anything respectable is at least $50
If you are going to a brewing store, buy light malt extract (powderred NOT liquid) and you will won't look back. . .
Dextrose is like feeding yourself only white bread with nothing else. . . Malt extracts have a crazy nutrient profile, more like bread with butter, peanut butter and some jam on Thursdays. . . The more you look on his site, the more you will see that malt is king. . .
Be aware though, it's hydroscopic AF and you need to keep it air tight and exposed to the atmosphere as little as possible. I have a big and small jar. . . Small for working, big for storing. . .
I started with 3% nute, and got white fluff. . . Dropped to 1.5% and I now get fast growth, as the myc is 'looking' for food, not just chilling getting fat. . . Rhizo growth is often a result of less nute, for the same reason. . .
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micelio
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Re: Agar Failures [Re: deniskov] 2
#26707872 - 05/30/20 08:15 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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A comparison between grain water and brf. Plates. I just thought I would share this... All plates have colonize grain from the same spawn jar (B+) The brf. plates was a thinner growth brf. and grew just a little faster.
9/21 to 9/25 6 grams brf. 9 grams telephone agar 500 ml. water

9/21 to 9/25 10 grams telephone agar 500ml. grain water from oats

This is a sample of what most of my grain water plates look like at seven days..
Edited by micelio (05/30/20 08:25 PM)
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Bobbit
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Re: Agar Failures [Re: micelio]
#26709431 - 05/31/20 03:46 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Beautiful growth on all those plates
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Fractal420
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Re: Agar Failures [Re: Bobbit]
#26710746 - 06/01/20 07:11 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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That is efficient, nice!
-------------------- Dreaming of That face again. It's bright and blue and shimmering. Grinning wide And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes. Prying open MY third eye
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deniskov
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Re: Agar Failures [Re: micelio]
#26712653 - 06/01/20 10:04 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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what grains have you had the most success with? Also where do you find those oats? I've seen large flake oats that make oatmeal but that doesn't look anything like yours.
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micelio
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Re: Agar Failures [Re: deniskov]
#26712795 - 06/01/20 11:44 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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You can find oats at any feed store for horses. Every town has a feed store for animals.
I exclusively use oats for spawn. It's fast and cheap and reliable and great bi-product (grain water for agar plates)
My prep. recipe Is posted earlier on this thread.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26704941#26704941
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micelio
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Re: Agar Failures [Re: deniskov]
#26714219 - 06/02/20 02:12 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I forgot to mention that Tractor Supply has oats.
Maybe theirs one near you.
https://www.tractorsupply.com/
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deniskov
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Re: Agar Failures [Re: micelio]
#26714839 - 06/02/20 06:38 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Unfortunately I'm in urban Canada, so finding a store that would sell bulk anything is difficult, let alone bulk feed/coir/substrate. But I'll figure something out. Thanks!
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Fractal420
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Re: Agar Failures [Re: deniskov]
#26715735 - 06/03/20 04:00 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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You can easily order the products needed and even just powder pre-mix. Works great for me
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-------------------- Dreaming of That face again. It's bright and blue and shimmering. Grinning wide And comforting me with it's three warm and wild eyes. Prying open MY third eye
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