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Offlinethemushydude
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Registered: 05/26/20
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Portobello Compounds and The Mafia
    #26700054 - 05/27/20 06:03 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Hello, this is my first post. I'm using this forum to centralise research and allow it to be peer-reviewed. This post may or may not be updated and reformatted in the future. It focuses on portobello mushrooms and the compounds within them, the research of others, and the portobello mafia. Although I see these forums aren't used for a whole ton of research nowadays, I believe this post will be beneficial for research and knowledge.

Let's get started.

My interest was peaked when I was watching a Joe Rogan interview with Paul Stamets.
https://youtu.be/mPqWstVnRjQ?t=6280
Skipped to 1:44:40 in the video.
This clip shows Paul back out of the conversation with full attention to his well-being as Joe asks; "What are the negative effects of this?"
Paul then gets eerily tense and replies with "This is an explosive-uh-area of conversation. And that puts my life in danger so I reserve the right to not answer the question." Joe then asks him about it as Paul says nothing and humorously stares back at him. This is in regards to them previously speaking about portobello mushrooms and agaritines for a little bit. Joe's first question saying, "What are the negative effects of this", is in response to Paul speaking about cooking and preparing portobello mushrooms and the agaritine/hydrazine compounds within them. When Paul says that these compounds are dangerous and such, Joe then pops the question which in turn starts our little situation here. Watching the full context of the last few minutes clarifies most of this.

Now, what I find interesting here is portobellos, agaritines, hydrazines, Paul Stamets, the unidentified "force" that is keeping Paul quiet, and the little discussion I see online in regards to said "forces."

Here is some relevant online research that I have found online in regards to portobellos and this situation. Some of which is from this forum (which is okay, I checked the rules). I want to expand on these posts and centralise any information regarding this clip, agaritines, hydrazines, portobellos, and unsaid "forces."



Cool, I can close those tabs now.

This is the end of this post, for now. I'm checking format and testing this post. Please comment any data or information gained in regards to this. Anything is appreciated really.


Edited by themushydude (05/27/20 06:05 PM)


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InvisibleSpeeker

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 880
Loc: Flag
Re: Portobello Compounds and The Mafia [Re: themushydude]
    #26701600 - 05/28/20 11:24 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

But they can be damn tasty... slurp! - and the subject keeps Paul quiet. Great! :lol:
Well, actually, nothing against him. Just that maybe he's repeating himself a bit nowadays.

>I'm checking format and testing this post.
Seems that I have to tighten my folio hat a bit again to understand this... :tongue:


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OfflineSolipsis
m̶a̶d̶ disappointed scientist
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Registered: 12/28/09
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Re: Portobello Compounds and The Mafia [Re: Speeker]
    #26701851 - 05/28/20 01:27 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

just seems to me that agaritine toxicology still needs to be studied better to have a decent idea of the risks.

but it isn't typical for him to shut up, i feel normally he may give too much info enthousiastic as he is (and shilly no offense) without properly considering that people can't properly interpret it without good context so you create a lot of rumors that way and what may turn out to be misinformation - speaking of early research with just tentative data being available in rodents or what have you.

maybe he could have pointed out agaritine seems to cause genetic mutations and cancer in animals but with the sidenote that the dosage makes the poison and we just don't know if the effect is strong enough; and also whether enough of the toxin is present to really have such a serious impact.
idk it could be better to not suggest that white button family mushrooms are toxic on a popular show cause people are dumb and think in black&white. doesn't currently seem like it's worrisome, idk what you are talking about with mafia - like the industry even suppressing data from toxicity studies?
also i think the guy has a lot of contacts, prob worries about partnerships and alliances and what not and idk if he doesnt want to kick some industry in the shins. i guess of the mushroom industries these Agaricus are really big esp in the west.

afaik oysters also contain some kind of neurotoxin and it seems like a very similar story that we don't know what the impact is, it just seems that ppl are not all dropping dead from it.

if you ask me, of course some foods are a lot healthier than others but things contain crazy numbers of chemical compounds and it may be hard to find things that don't have both beneficial and harmful effects - i'd just keep on the side of relatively more beneficial than harmful based on all data available and relax until we know more.

i have no idea why i didnt put any caps, just go with it.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Portobello Compounds and The Mafia [Re: Solipsis]
    #26702061 - 05/28/20 03:15 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

If you're listening to anything Paul says you need to sharpen your critical thinking skills and recalibrate your idea of compelling information. Doctor Phil of mushrooms.

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Quote:

foragedfungus said:
Potatoes, Those things make all sorts of nasty chemicals, solanine,  chaconine, indigestible starches. You don't want to eat them raw, they are toxic when they turn green from exposure to sunlight.

Rice accumulates more arsenic from the soil than almost any other crop.

I'd guess most of the packaged foods sold in american grocery stores are more likely to cause cancer than eating a few buttons.

It might not be as dangerous as Paul wants to make it sound, but the fact remains that they have found carcinogens in Agaricus.



Lol scary carcinogens.. Do you smoke weed? Do you breathe in the air outside? Do you cook on a BBQ? Every day we're bringing in more carcinogens into our body. Reducing the load might help you live longer, but you don't need to live your life in fear from shit you literally cannot control (carcinogens everywhere). Besides, the fact its a class 3 carcinogen, along with Fuckin tea, should be enough to realize there isn't enough evidence to suggest it harms humans. Another thing to note is that just because it's classified as toxic, doesn't mean it is bad for us. Toxic things consumed in low doses may actually be beneficial under something known as hormesis




Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Exactly. Its a big nothingburger. If you're going to worry about agaricus having carcinogens you need to provide a compelling argument that they're actually harmful, especially compared to normal and relative food use among people who also eat buttons. Need to provide a compelling argument that in fact though cooking makes some of the carcinogens safe(r) does the cooking itself create more anyway and are they worse.

Pauls carcinogens in buttons is the scientific equivalent to me saying I found dust 99.99% of water cups sampled from every restaurant and on that dust I found ecoli. Then publishing it in some backwoods journal and having it reported on in a way that makes it sound like you really should avoid cups.




Quote:

bodhisatta said:

Quote:


Paul stamets sed in a few vids that even Portobello button mushrooms are hiiiighly cancerous eaten raw!




:ohgreatmorebs:

Quote:


He said he couldn’t talk about it because of fear for his life.




Mob ran button mushroom farms am I rite.
The button cartel doesn't take shit from no one

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agaritine
Quote:


Agaritine has been claimed to be a weak carcinogen, with an estimate for cumulative lifetime risk from mushroom consumption at approximately 1 in 10,000.[12] However, this claim is poorly supported








Quote:

bodhisatta said:
To look cool.

Lots of stone fruit contain small amounts of cyanide(way more in the pits), there's no stone fruit or button mushroom mafia.
Also check this out
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormesis

Here is the most reasonable answer besides he's a dipstick
Quote:


Food libel laws, also known as food disparagement laws and informally as veggie libel laws, are laws passed in thirteen U.S. states that make it easier for food producers to sue their critics for libel. These thirteen states are Alabama, Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Dakota and Texas. Many of the food-disparagement laws establish a lower standard for civil liability and allow for punitive damages and attorney's fees for plaintiffs alone, regardless of the case's outcome.

These laws vary significantly from state to state, but food libel laws typically allow a food manufacturer or processor to sue a person or group who makes disparaging comments about their food products.





Millions of people eat them raw everyday and no clear link to cancer not even slightly causal.

He also said Portobello has no medicinal qualities at all. Despite producing no research to prove that and its scientifically ridiculous to say that without a mile long list of researching done on them.
Besides there's actually medicinally potentially valuable compounds in them and actual research about it to boot





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OfflineDutchMyco
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Re: Portobello Compounds and The Mafia [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26702093 - 05/28/20 03:35 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

A bigger agaricus issue might be the abusive working conditions in some places..


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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: Portobello Compounds and The Mafia [Re: DutchMyco]
    #26706245 - 05/30/20 02:31 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

A solid scientist shouldnt have to shy away from potential libel, gotta stick to carefully worded claims you know in the back in your mind you have the references for, but thats regardless of any libel thats just science and not talking out of your ass... and i guess know the lingo of proper statements of the kind.
idk if its cause he knows himself well as i suggested before with the 'enthousiasm'.. he used to be pretty damn relevant, esp for novice level which i guess we all were not all that long ago (yeah incl before my time i mean), but now is more a mascot - fair enough though i def don't mind him inspiring a new generation and all that, if he has a repetitive uninteresting story to us at this point it can all the more be a well polished story to sell some cool stuff about fungi to beginners - Fantastic Fungi was a paul jerkfest tho, quite a disappointment like it basically ruined the amazing images for me.
Anyway he wouldnt be my gameshow lifeline for the more technical stuff even if he has a lot of co-ops himself with cool scientific mycological research. As much as i appreciate "amateurs" becoming self-made scientists if they have it in them.

i agree with that post bod thats similar to what i meant

abusive working conditions like general labor wise? or regarding spore inhalation?

there is a patent for sporeless white buttons but idk if they have a sporeless Portobello too.


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OfflineDutchMyco
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Re: Portobello Compounds and The Mafia [Re: Solipsis]
    #26708585 - 05/31/20 07:00 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, I meant labor wise. The 'keuringsdienst van waarde'(Dutch tv show about food related items) has a good show on it. Might not be exactly mob tactics, but fining foreign workers for using the bathroom, paying them 3 months late so they won't speak out, etc.

More sporeless species would be interesting.


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