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InnerWisdom



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If all women had just one child
#26701809 - 05/28/20 01:00 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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If every woman who were to have a child, had only one, our population would be halved in just a generation. We could continue living at our standard of living without immediately threatening all life on earth by our actions. Do that for two generations and we have like 2 billion people on the earth. That would be wild and obviously this would never happen, but seems like the best way to impact climate change and the use or resources and poverty etc etc.
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Buster_Brown
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Re: If all women had just one child [Re: InnerWisdom]
#26702129 - 05/28/20 03:50 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Didn't the Japanese gov't, for example, decree a limit on how many children a responsible couple could have?
edit
"A two-children policy is a government-imposed limit of two children allowed per family or the payment of government subsidies only to the first two children. It has previously been used in Vietnam. In British Hong Kong in the 1970s, citizens were also highly encouraged to have two children as a limit (although it was not mandated by law), and it was used as part of the region's family planning strategies. Since 2016, it has been re-implemented in China, replacing the country's previous one-child policy." Wiki
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DividedQuantum
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Re: If all women had just one child [Re: InnerWisdom]
#26702234 - 05/28/20 04:54 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's a good idea in principle, buuuuuuut just a little difficult to enforce.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Yellow Pants



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I do my part by reacting with shock at couples who tell me they have 3+ kids. Nodding approval if 1-2.
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InnerWisdom



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Re: If all women had just one child [Re: Yellow Pants]
#26702272 - 05/28/20 05:15 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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If this was discussed more, it would happen more often, but it has not been official policy other than in china that I know of. Halving the population is not exactly what every country aims for, but it should be. The economical problems would be great I guess like with people's pensions and all.
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Yellow Pants



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Re: If all women had just one child [Re: InnerWisdom]
#26702306 - 05/28/20 05:33 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Wouldn’t birth control offend the religious conservative?
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Kickle
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Re: If all women had just one child [Re: InnerWisdom]
#26702353 - 05/28/20 05:58 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
InnerWisdom said: If every woman who were to have a child, had only one, our population would be halved in just a generation. We could continue living at our standard of living without immediately threatening all life on earth by our actions. Do that for two generations and we have like 2 billion people on the earth. That would be wild and obviously this would never happen, but seems like the best way to impact climate change and the use or resources and poverty etc etc.
as the population ages, 1 person is supporting 2 (or more for folks like me with no kids)
in terms of a graph it looks like an inverted pyramid. the heaviest part is up top and it's balancing on a tiny apex. not really sustainable unless we have something to fill in the missing human factor with regards to finances, workload, and care giving.
China abandoned the 1 child policy because of this after less than 40 years of enforcement. Such policies cause problems of their own.
In 2014 86% of the population in China was supporting 14% of population (a pyramid shape) By 2050 56% of the population in China is expected to support the other 44%. Starting to look like a square.
And that's from 37 years of the policy. Keep it going and that number gets more and more drastically tilted.
I'm personally interested to see if China can find a way to balance half the populace working and half the populace needing care. If they can, that's a much better societal ratio than what we've had in history and that ratio could be more or less sustained through a 2 child policy and maybe as technology increases take another step down at some point.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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InnerWisdom



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Re: If all women had just one child [Re: Kickle]
#26702939 - 05/28/20 10:54 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Well this birthrate would be all about individual and societal sacrifices to make it work. Maybe the population decrease should be a lot slower to actually be implemented, but it is not impossible to have only 1 either. If this really were to save the planet from all the tragedy of our current population and consuming, I think many would be ready to sacrifice their own benefit for the greater good.
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The Blind Ass
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Re: If all women had just one child [Re: Kickle]
#26702958 - 05/28/20 11:08 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: in terms of a graph it looks like an inverted pyramid. the heaviest part is up top and it's balancing on a tiny apex. not really sustainable unless we have something to fill in the missing human factor with regards to finances, workload, and care giving.
China abandoned the 1 child policy because of this after less than 40 years of enforcement. Such policies cause problems of their own.
In 2014 86% of the population in China was supporting 14% of population (a pyramid shape) By 2050 56% of the population in China is expected to support the other 44%. Starting to look like a square.
And that's from 37 years of the policy. Keep it going and that number gets more and more drastically tilted.
I'm personally interested to see if China can find a way to balance half the populace working and half the populace needing care. If they can, that's a much better societal ratio than what we've had in history and that ratio could be more or less sustained through a 2 child policy and maybe as technology increases take another step down at some point.
It’s definitely going to be something to take note of, whichever way it goes. Those Geometric-graphs representing variables & (age groups / socio economic classes by % of population etc etc) populations are a great tool for analyzing countries as a whole in regards to economic forecasting and stability etc.
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Forrester
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Humanity will never be able to "fix the dream". Fix one problem and another one pops up, that's the point. Native Americans had it pretty good but disease, famine often killed them. Fix those problems and you get overpopulation. So we complain about too many people, then we complain that it's not right when they get killed. We are never happy 
Best we can do is accept the natural world the way it is, the more we intervene the more we just fuck it up. So imposing another rule to fix 5000 other rules we made up is insane if you ask me. Sure, it all works in theory, but never in practice.
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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InnerWisdom



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Re: If all women had just one child [Re: Forrester]
#26704277 - 05/29/20 11:00 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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My point is that most of the problems caused by us to ourselves or the planet can be said to be caused by overpopulation at this point. I think birth control is the best way to solve our problems in theory. People are selfish though and dont think one child is enough. If you think about it isnt it amazing that we could make such an impact on everything by simplu not breeding so much? But individuals dont want this and neither do governments so we are fucked on the population. The population will then decrease when it has to and that means a lot of suffering and nobody likes that.
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jcby
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Re: If all women had just one child [Re: InnerWisdom]
#26711505 - 06/01/20 01:13 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I wish I could say there was a reasonable solution to this problem. It's not really something that can be enforced. Perhaps education can help.
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Moses_Davidson
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Re: If all women had just one child [Re: Forrester]
#26717869 - 06/03/20 09:45 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Forrester said: Humanity will never be able to "fix the dream". Fix one problem and another one pops up, that's the point. Native Americans had it pretty good but disease, famine often killed them. Fix those problems and you get overpopulation. So we complain about too many people, then we complain that it's not right when they get killed. We are never happy 
Best we can do is accept the natural world the way it is, the more we intervene the more we just fuck it up. So imposing another rule to fix 5000 other rules we made up is insane if you ask me. Sure, it all works in theory, but never in practice.
What if we could increase the carrying capacity of the earth? Now... this is not a lot of fun, but what if we worked towards switching society to a plant-based diet, with meat used as a garnish instead of the main course. We could have 75% more farmland & food production capacity, and it would postpone our overpopulation problems.
-------------------- "In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill "The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose." J.B.S. Haldane "Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't." Mark Twain
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Forrester
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Quote:
Moses_Davidson said: What if we could increase the carrying capacity of the earth? Now... this is not a lot of fun, but what if we worked towards switching society to a plant-based diet, with meat used as a garnish instead of the main course. We could have 75% more farmland & food production capacity, and it would postpone our overpopulation problems.
That would be ideal, and a more realistic mid-way step I think. Although getting Ah-MUR-icans to change their diets in any way may be difficult. Change comes slowly I guess. Hoping this Covid thing bringing light to the problems of the meat industry might make some positive change...
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FreeCanadianHugs
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Re: If all women had just one child [Re: Kickle] 1
#26719688 - 06/04/20 05:00 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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China abandoned the one child policy for many reasons. The main reason was because of disproportionate amount of male children compared to the amount of female children. The majority of Chinese families under this policy wanted a male child to carry on the family name. This caused a lot of female pregnancy's to be terminated and far, far too many female babies to die in their cribs. This also caused a booming trade in women being kidnapped and sold to poor male farmers that sometimes pooled their very limited money to afford a wife to share between them.
Additionally the one child policy was never what the west believed it to be. If you had one child the Chinese government gave you baby bonuses. If you had two children then most of the bonuses disappeared. If you had three children you had to pay fees to the government. For each child your costs went up and your government assistance disappeared.
Additionally our population would not be halved in a single generation. Humans live increasingly long due to better medical. At best this one child policy slows the expansion of the human population, but like another poster posted most social services depend on an ever increasing population to be able to afford these services.
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Rahz
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Yea, what's needed is some population stability. Then we could work on reduction without disastrous consequences. I think the widespread availability of birth control had much to do with China easing up on their policy... which is a pointer to the one way the problem can be fixed voluntarily on a global scale.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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InnerWisdom



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Re: If all women had just one child [Re: Rahz]
#26720483 - 06/04/20 10:55 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah birth control is very important. Do you think we are overpopulated now or in the future?
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The Blind Ass
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Re: If all women had just one child [Re: InnerWisdom]
#26720601 - 06/05/20 12:31 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Which countries use the most resources in total per individual & have the largest footprint? The footprint and resource consumption of someone living a subsistence lifestyle is barely a drop in the bucket compared to some places...like them or modern metropolises & the wealthy suburbias around the world.
Yeah...idk if population control is really the problem per say...we can always use condoms/the pills & other birth control Tools & measures to help out, and some other things too, but anything very extreme is just silly at this point (Suggestions to kill). More birth control, less superstition, more education (including but not limited to proper/appropriate sex education that gets the job done!) more cultural inculcation of birth control & for free would go a damn long way in curbing population growth overall.
Ex. If we just nuked half the population in 1 hour from now...I bet one day in the future we would still be dealing with similar problems. Then some nut would want to just kill half the world population again...and so on etc etc.
The ones who both propose extreme measures to curtail population growth and have the actual power to be able to go through with it generally - I imagine - generally aren’t one’s who are living in balance with the earth, not one’s using a moderate amount of resources - ie just what’s needed - or at a proportionate level, not to mention their footprint . Ie. They likely are the types who are >>> Giant resource consumers & with massive footprints - etc.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (06/05/20 12:41 AM)
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InnerWisdom



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Yeah the resource use and carbon footprint per capita are crucial to consider in this topic. Originally when I started this thread, that was what I had in mind thinking about all developed countries and rapidly developing ones. Basically all the biggest polluters and consumers. I think the population of those places should be way less for the sake of our planet. But whatcha gonna do.
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Rahz
Alive Again



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Re: If all women had just one child [Re: InnerWisdom]
#26721395 - 06/05/20 09:04 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
InnerWisdom said: Yeah birth control is very important. Do you think we are overpopulated now or in the future?
Tricky question, but I would like for there to be fewer people.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
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Re: If all women had just one child [Re: Rahz]
#26723863 - 06/06/20 11:04 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I am a third child in a family of 4 boys, but I do think the max number of children should be 2 max, even though that means I would not exist.
the cultural problems of the Chinese were surmountable even as many did strange and sometimes inhumane things to face the challenge. Many late blooming mothers to be cannot carry a term pregnancy because they waited too long, so I am not that worried about educated and late starting first world people. I do worry about child mothers who are not yet 18. Areas where that are happening need a lot of help.
more sex, less babies, we have to figure it out.
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Rahz
Alive Again


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The Western world does have less babies. 50% more or less, choose or are unable to have children.
So maybe others choosing to have more than two is not a problem.
I'm glad you exist.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Huehuecoyotl
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Re: If all women had just one child [Re: InnerWisdom]
#26725220 - 06/06/20 11:33 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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At the expense of offending only childs... Such a policy makes environmental science, but all those people would be so damn spoiled it's not even funny. You need some brothers and sisters to fight with. And if you tried doing that shit in the community they lock you up... I know I tried and I've been locked up.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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InnerWisdom



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Re: If all women had just one child [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#26725621 - 06/07/20 04:32 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yes brothers and sisters are important, but that is a part of the sacrifice. That is one thing keeping from people having only one child: they want the child a sibling at home to play with. I know I would if I had a child. Maybe living in a neighborhood with lots of kids would help. The parents really need to be active on that part. If population was stabilised to so it wouldn't grow anymore then everyone could go back to having two kids, some even three. I was thinking yesterday that the worst place to have children and especially without planning for them is some huge city like Sao Paulo or, where that child will grow up and might get stuck in that environment due to poverty or something. Working some shitty job and sitting in the rushhour traffic or using crowded buses for hours or whatever. How many people live lives like that just stuck in the daily grind of a big city with no escape. Just have to surrender... Huge cities are the worst example of overpopulation. Nobody is happy in there except the wealthy who can live in some nice neighborhood. That's what I think anyways..
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Brian Jones
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Re: If all women had just one child [Re: Buster_Brown]
#26725653 - 06/07/20 05:13 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Buster_Brown said: Didn't the Japanese gov't, for example, decree a limit on how many children a responsible couple could have?
edit
"A two-children policy is a government-imposed limit of two children allowed per family or the payment of government subsidies only to the first two children. It has previously been used in Vietnam. In British Hong Kong in the 1970s, citizens were also highly encouraged to have two children as a limit (although it was not mandated by law), and it was used as part of the region's family planning strategies. Since 2016, it has been re-implemented in China, replacing the country's previous one-child policy." Wiki
Well at least you edited it. Japan has very low birthrates by choice, as does every other advanced country.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Brian Jones
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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
more sex, less babies, we have to figure it out.
Now were getting somewhere, and the figuring it out is birth control, and it doesn't have the failure rates that are reported. It most often fails because people only practice birth control some of the time.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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redgreenvines
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Re: If all women had just one child [Re: Brian Jones]
#26725841 - 06/07/20 07:51 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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nah uhh, birth control is not providing more sex, just less babies. maybe less aging - except that counters the over pop control
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Loaded Shaman
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Re: If all women had just one child [Re: InnerWisdom]
#26728000 - 06/08/20 02:47 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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--------------------
  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Quote:
Moses_Davidson said:
Quote:
Forrester said: Humanity will never be able to "fix the dream". Fix one problem and another one pops up, that's the point. Native Americans had it pretty good but disease, famine often killed them. Fix those problems and you get overpopulation. So we complain about too many people, then we complain that it's not right when they get killed. We are never happy 
Best we can do is accept the natural world the way it is, the more we intervene the more we just fuck it up. So imposing another rule to fix 5000 other rules we made up is insane if you ask me. Sure, it all works in theory, but never in practice.
What if we could increase the carrying capacity of the earth? Now... this is not a lot of fun, but what if we worked towards switching society to a plant-based diet, with meat used as a garnish instead of the main course. We could have 75% more farmland & food production capacity, and it would postpone our overpopulation problems.
"In one year, a single acre of black soldier fly larvae can produce more protein than 3,000 acres of cattle or 130 acres of soybeans. Such yields, combined with the need to find cheap, reliable protein for a global population projected to jump 30 percent, to 9.8 billion by 2050"-Washington Post
"Back at Symton, Taranow pops a couple of oven-dried soldier fly larvae into her mouth. “Honestly, they taste like Fritos,” she said. They have a pleasant, neutral, nutty flavor to them. Slather them in powdered ranch or barbecue seasoning and it’s easy to imagine bags of them flying off the shelves in truck stops and convenience stores."
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Forrester
aspiring sociopath


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Re: If all women had just one child [Re: Buster_Brown]
#26728392 - 06/08/20 08:21 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Eating bugs is in our future almost definitely, I think. Might as well get used to it
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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InnerWisdom



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Re: If all women had just one child [Re: Forrester]
#26728404 - 06/08/20 08:28 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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There was this cricket boom on the market in recent years but now they have vanished since the companies went bankrupt or ended that business. They were freaking expensive, plus the unappealing nature of fried crickets.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: If all women had just one child [Re: InnerWisdom]
#26728641 - 06/08/20 10:33 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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lots of locusts now in Africa, good bugs for eating, so I've read.
and they are kosher!
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Forrester
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Crickets are pretty good. Just crunchy, and the guts all dry up in the cooking. It's stuff with squishy guts that grosses me out...
Yeah they are expensive, because not many companies make them. It can't be that expensive to farm bugs at all. Crickets eat toilet paper rolls, you don't even have to feed them!
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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The Blind Ass
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Re: If all women had just one child [Re: Forrester]
#26729356 - 06/08/20 04:45 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I wish to be reincarnated into a universe that has bugs the size of the ones from Starship Troopers.
Like those bug ginormous.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


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InnerWisdom



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Now thats a top lobster
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The Blind Ass
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Re: If all women had just one child [Re: InnerWisdom]
#26730271 - 06/08/20 11:31 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I wonder how big they could get if they were ever selectively bred to maximize size & pumped full of growth hormones & steroids . Scratch that, nowadays I bet someone could just tinker with its DNA to make a monster sized crustacean...or a real life Pokémon.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Buster_Brown
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Lobster and kipper = my choice of a last meal, with a slice of watermelon topped with ketchup or catsup.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: If all women had just one child [Re: InnerWisdom]
#26730977 - 06/09/20 09:55 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: I wonder how big they could get if they were ever selectively bred to maximize size & pumped full of growth hormones & steroids . Scratch that, nowadays I bet someone could just tinker with its DNA to make a monster sized crustacean...or a real life Pokémon.
It's a crayfish, but no matter, close.
anyway, I think that the body design precludes genetic tampering to produce larger versions due to the physics of the exoskeletons that are thicker when larger to maintain rigidity against which the muscles pull. miniature internal muscles cannot move 50 pound chelipeds (claws etc.)
Imagine turning an elephant inside out - covering it with heavy self supporting chitin. It would be unable to move.
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The Blind Ass
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Speaking of Oliphants...check out this guy’s bling 
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