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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: lowbrow] 1
#26713459 - 06/02/20 08:49 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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DC Police cut off protesters near DuPont circle last night and were arrested if they tried to leave. About a hundred were welcomed into homes along swan street and sheltered overnight. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wusa9.com/amp/article/news/local/dc/dc-protesters-take-refuge-in-residents-home/65-af2f9f3f-4b1e-4bab-9a45-ff55c78708c5
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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feevers


Registered: 12/28/10
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Loc:
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: koods] 1
#26713465 - 06/02/20 08:51 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: DC Police cut off protesters near DuPont circle last night and were arrested if they tried to leave. About a hundred were welcomed into homes along swan street and sheltered overnight.
"D.C. had no problems last night. Many arrests. Great job done by all. Overwhelming force. Domination. Likewise, Minneapolis was great (thank you President Trump!)." -Tweet from Trump.
So there were no problems, but "many arrests" and overwhelming force and domination was necessary.
Land of the free.
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Tantrika
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: lowbrow]
#26713471 - 06/02/20 08:53 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
lowbrow said:
Quote:
Tantrika said:
If you spend your life on the bottom, and you take pride anyway, that is thought of as strength in facing adveristy
depends on the cause. I see where you’re going with this.
Could you provide some examples where you agree or disagree?
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lowbrow said:
Quote:
Tantrika said: If you are on the top, and you take pride in that, that is thought of as a celebration of supremacy
That makes no sense.
Oh, sorry, when you are on top, you are in a position of supremacy celebrating that state of being on top is celebrating supremacy clarified?
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lowbrow said:
Quote:
Tantrika said: If you are on the top, and you take pride in that, that is thought of as a celebration of supremacy
You’ve charged it up with emotion to make it to your liking but the logic is not there.
See above, it was a statement of what occurs perhaps if you are looking to see something else you could shroud it with emotional coverings tho
Quote:
lowbrow said: A person can still be proud of a concept regardless of their social status.
Of course, but that does not change that celebrating a position of supremacy is celebrating supremacy do not even have to be part of the in group to celebrate supremacy -- will see all sorts of working class whites who celebrate capitalism as a development of their culture, even tho it is shitting all over them
Quote:
lowbrow said: Allowing another to dictate how you feel about oneself will cause a loss of identity.
It is not about how one feels about oneself it is about how one socially addresses the issues try not to take it personally; people can have ideas but not be defined by them
but promoting particular ideas is still promoting particular ideas
Quote:
lowbrow said: To dictate one can only have an identity because of low social status is demoralizing to said group and quite patronizing.
No dictation made, simply an analysis of what effect promoting certain ideas has on reinforcing (or interrupting) broader systems
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lowbrow
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: feevers]
#26713475 - 06/02/20 08:55 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
feevers said:
When are you not confused?
Well you have the opportunity to answer more clearly or just throw personal attacks.
Posting vague statements of conjecture and responding with insults when asked for more clarification is in bad form.
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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koods
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: lowbrow] 3
#26713490 - 06/02/20 09:02 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wusa9.com/amp/article/news/local/dc/dc-protesters-take-refuge-in-residents-home/65-af2f9f3f-4b1e-4bab-9a45-ff55c78708c5
Listen to the interview of the homeowner in this article and compare it to people on twitter saying homeowners should have shot people to keep them from getting in their houses. The right wing in this country is disgusting. They are horrible people. #swannstreet siege


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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (06/02/20 09:12 AM)
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qman
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: ShroomDoom]
#26713540 - 06/02/20 09:27 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
ShroomDoom said:
Quote:
qman said:
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specialpeopleclub said: Having an american flag is the height of arrogance?
in america.
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Something tells me you have no idea about how statistics actually work.
They commit about half the murders at 13% of the population
Yeah, the crime statistics aren't that difficult to understand, it's just not a comfortable subject matter when it comes to the race component to those statistics.
They are difficult to understand clearly because isntead of recognizing it as a direct result of the root causes of a host of intersectionality aligned factors that oppress people of color you choose to see it as either individual failings or racial inferiority. So which is it? Are black people just violent and evil, or have they been opressed for 400 years by whites and suffer from poverty and the crime component borne of it? Which is more likely?
I'm open minded enough to accept any rational possibility, but you have already made up your mind on the issue.
Why do males commit the VAST majority of violent crime? Why are males over 13 times more likely to be in prison? Where is the outrage that sexism is likely at work here? The lack of outrage is obvious.
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: koods]
#26713546 - 06/02/20 09:33 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Allison lane via Twitter https://twitter.com/allieblablah/status/1267781169363464194?s=21
Quote:
I’m at a house in DC after being pepper sprayed and knocked down by the police. There are about 100 of us in a house surrounded by cops. All the neighbors on this street opened their doors and are tending to protesters. The cops corralled us on this street and sprayed us down.
Lots of people are hurt but not terribly. They chased us away from the White House with flash bangs into a residential neighborhood. Nobody is really sure when we’ll be able to leave. The cops are trying to tell us we won’t be arrested if we leave the house. 😒
Also now the cops are trying to say we broke into the house - we didn’t. The owner just came down and let us know what people were saying. And gave us water and shelter.
For those asking we’re ok. We all we’re handed flyers with legal aid and advice, masks, first aid kits. Honestly - ready to get arrested.
The owner just said the cops aren’t even letting them out of the house. How you going to threaten a homeowner for doing what they want with their house?
They’re lining people up outside for god only knows what.
Ok - they’re arresting the people. Zip tying them and taking them away.
Looks like I’m here until 6 am. The cops are in the alley catching people who hop the fence to leave the private property. Helicopters are everywhere. This is insane.
I’ve talked to a few other people. There are at least 4 houses I’m certain that let people in. Mind you - we weren’t trying to be in a neighborhood. We got pushed here while peacefully protesting.
Cops are trying to convince Rahul to get us out of the house. He said we not leaving and bring me my pizza.
Rahul Dubrey https://twitter.com/adriannahopkins/status/1267812250049536000?s=21
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (06/02/20 09:40 AM)
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: qman]
#26713547 - 06/02/20 09:33 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: Why do males commit the VAST majority of violent crime? Why are males over 13 times more likely to be in prison? Where is the outrage that sexism is likely at work here? The lack of outrage is obvious.
Have had it previously suggested to me that cis men are more violent than trans women due to increased impulsiveness from testosterone
personally, figure this has more to do with comparative lack of female agency and iconography thinking of the Al Capone times that many men glamorize, the girlfriends were just part of the gang to be alibis when the guys did crimes nowadays, there are female rappers with violent lyrics; female criminal suspects in murder shows; female action heros; and most personally notable, playable female characters in Grand Theft Auto 5 online
would not be surprised if statistically cases of violent female crime have increased relative to their old pre-women's lib values and may have somewhat started to close that gap tho we are talking centuries of male agency and female submission in cultural inculcation tho most female criminals historically were likely prostitutes that grifted extra money from men
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PumpJackTeX
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: PumpJackTeX] 2
#26713600 - 06/02/20 09:52 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Obama 2015 Vs. Trump 2020
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lowbrow
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: lowbrow]
#26713609 - 06/02/20 09:58 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tantrika said:
Quote:
lowbrow said:
Quote:
Tantrika said:
If you spend your life on the bottom, and you take pride anyway, that is thought of as strength in facing adveristy
depends on the cause. I see where you’re going with this.
Could you provide some examples where you agree or disagree?
It doesn’t matter if I agree or disagree. If you want my personal opinion I believe everybody has the right to be proud of whatever and it doesn’t matter whether I like it or not.
Quote:
lowbrow said:
Oh, sorry, when you are on top, you are in a position of supremacy celebrating that state of being on top is celebrating supremacy clarified?
clarified, but its still just an opinion. One can celebrate without exuding supremacist jargon. They can just be proud.
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Tantrika said:
See above, it was a statement of what occurs perhaps if you are looking to see something else you could shroud it with emotional coverings tho
in my opinion, that’s what you’re doing.
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lowbrow said: A person can still be proud of a concept regardless of their social status.
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Tantrika said: Of course, but that does not change that celebrating a position of supremacy is celebrating supremacy
being first in a situation does not make a person a supremacist. That’s an emotionally charged opinion. Being on top has always been a reason to celebrate.
But you’re obviously talking about race, that changes the context. You can still be proud of your race and not hold negative views of other races. But people tend to bring up history to charge up the emotions on this argument too.
Quote:
Tantrika said:
do not even have to be part of the in group to celebrate supremacy -- will see all sorts of working class whites who celebrate capitalism as a development of their culture, even tho it is shitting all over them
You’re now bringing emotionally charged political opinions into the discussion. This is what Im talking about, logic now goes out the window for feelings. When enacted in the real world this will end in disaster.
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Tantrika said:
It is not about how one feels about oneself
Identity can have a racial component. When every other race and ethnicity is allowed one but you turn around and tell another group they should be ashamed of theirs is just another example of emotions coming into play. When you use the emotionally charged phrase, ‘supremacy’ you attempt to shut down the conversation of the issue.
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Tantrika said: it is about how one socially addresses the issues try not to take it personally; people can have ideas but not be defined by them.
I agree.
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Tantrika said:
but promoting particular ideas is still promoting particular ideas
This is rather vague with really bad implications.
Quote:
Tantrika said:
No dictation made, simply an analysis of what effect promoting certain ideas has on reinforcing (or interrupting) broader systems
No, I disagree, you’re officially talking to other races as small children that need their hand held. Now that has got to be horribly demoralizing.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: lowbrow] 2
#26713631 - 06/02/20 10:11 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
lowbrow said:
Quote:
feevers said:
When are you not confused?
Well you have the opportunity to answer more clearly or just throw personal attacks.
Posting vague statements of conjecture and responding with insults when asked for more clarification is in bad form.
I agree. Too confused to take your own advice?
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lowbrow said: Why are you trying to incite more violence?
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lowbrow said: All you’ve been doing this whole thread is trying to incite violence. Your shitty book suggestion aint even the half of it.
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shivas.wisdom said: So it should be easy to provide an example.
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lowbrow said: But why are you trying to incite violence?
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lowbrow said: You appear to be pushing for violence for your own political agenda.
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qman
Stranger

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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: Tantrika]
#26713636 - 06/02/20 10:12 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tantrika said:
Quote:
qman said: Why do males commit the VAST majority of violent crime? Why are males over 13 times more likely to be in prison? Where is the outrage that sexism is likely at work here? The lack of outrage is obvious.
Have had it previously suggested to me that cis men are more violent than trans women due to increased impulsiveness from testosterone
personally, figure this has more to do with comparative lack of female agency and iconography thinking of the Al Capone times that many men glamorize, the girlfriends were just part of the gang to be alibis when the guys did crimes nowadays, there are female rappers with violent lyrics; female criminal suspects in murder shows; female action heros; and most personally notable, playable female characters in Grand Theft Auto 5 online
would not be surprised if statistically cases of violent female crime have increased relative to their old pre-women's lib values and may have somewhat started to close that gap tho we are talking centuries of male agency and female submission in cultural inculcation tho most female criminals historically were likely prostitutes that grifted extra money from men
You can liberate females all you want, they're still not going to commit anywhere near as much violent crime as males in modern society.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: shivas.wisdom] 3
#26713637 - 06/02/20 10:13 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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What is lowbrow afraid of, that they interpret this as incitement to violence? 
Quote:
NO JUSTICE NO PEACE
1. Create an independent inspector body to investigate police misconduct and criminal allegations and controls evidence like body camera footage. Any use of lethal force shall trigger an automatic investigation by this body.
2. Create a requirement for states to establish board certification with minimum education and training requirements to provide licensing for police. In order to be a law enforcement officer, you must possess this license. The inspector body in #1 can revoke the license.
3. Refocus police resources on training, de-escalation, and community building.
4. Adopt the “absolute necessity” doctrine for lethal force as implemented in other states. "I feared for my life" is no longer a valid excuse.
5. Codify into law the requirement for police to have positive control over the evidence chain of custody. If the chain of custody is lost for evidence, the investigative body in #1 can hold law enforcement officers and their agencies liable.
These 5 demands are the minimum necessary for trust in our police to return. Until these are implemented by our state governors, legislators, DAs, and judges we will not rest or be satisfied. We will no longer stand by and watch our brothers and sisters be oppressed by those who are meant to protect us.
Of course, I would take things a step further:
Disarm and abolish the police.
As long as police have weapons and impunity, they will go on killing us. All of our efforts have only made a dent in their impunity; it’s time to go all the way. Only when the highway patrol cannot end our lives during a routine traffic stop will the terror that so many of us feel every time we see blue lights flashing begin to ease. Only when no group of uniformed thugs feels entitled to pin anyone to the ground and ignore his pleas will all of us be free from the threat of becoming the next George Floyd.
Once police are disarmed, it will become clear to everyone how useless they are at the things we think we need them for. When mentally ill people act in ways that seem erratic to others, we need counselors and advocates, not armed gunmen. When romantic partners and neighbors have conflicts, we need people with conflict resolution and de-escalation skills, not violent escalators enforcing a patriarchal agenda. When kids need traffic directed so they can cross the street, we need friendly elders and neighbors who know them, not people toting lethal weapons who have little experience working with children. When we lose things or find things, we need a community center to exchange them, not a precinct. When our cars break down by the side of the road, we need a community of Good Samaritans, not a mercenary looking to write us a ticket. The majority of what the police do is harmful and should be immediately eliminated to make us all safer; much of the rest could be done much better by skilled, unarmed volunteers of good will.
As an institution, policing itself is violent and oppressive to the core. The thousands of murders individual officers perpetrate are just the tip of the iceberg. How can we measure the daily anxiety, the acute terror, the petty humiliations, the impact of family members being kidnapped and shaken down that so many people experience every time they must engage with infuriating arrogance grinning from behind a badge? From their origin in slave patrols to today’s high-tech spy drones and predictive policing algorithms, police have never existed to protect us.
It’s not a question of bad apples. The entire barrel is rotten.
Promote collective self-defense.
The chant “Who keeps us safe? We keep us safe!” is more than a slogan—it’s a necessity. There is no safety we can count on that is not built on our trust and relationships with each other. To be certain of our safety, we must be able to define for ourselves what risks we face and how to address them together.
Critics argue that it’s naïve to talk about disarming and abolishing the police, citing the aggression and chaos we will supposedly unleash on each other without the violence of the thin blue line to keep us in check. But what’s truly naïve is to continue believing that an institution responsible for killing a thousand people every year is somehow keeping us safe.
Collective self-defense will not be easy, but it’s our only hope. It will mean organizing to prevent the violence of the far right—of those encouraged by Trump to shoot looters and by state governments to run over protestors. It will mean taking responsibility for developing new skills in conflict resolution and new structures for rapid response in times of crisis. The indications that Minneapolis gangs are organizing a truce to collaborate on protecting protestors from far-right violence are encouraging. We will need all of our courage and creativity to develop new approaches that value and protect all of us, rather than sacrificing millions of us to be caged or killed in order to secure the safety and property of some.
Share resources freely through mutual aid.
Want to prevent looting? Ensure that everyone has housing, enough to eat, and enough resources to live a dignified life. When they don’t, who can blame them for taking out their rage against those who stand between them and the resources they need?
In Minneapolis, local communities are establishing supply depots where resources redistributed during the riots can be freely shared, both to support the protests and to enable neighbors to live. The COVID-19 crisis has popularized mutual aid networks; the riots are taking them to the next level. The police exist to ensure that resources are distributed not according to need, but according to an archaic system of property rights that benefits those who hoard them for themselves rather than sharing them. The protestors have turned this upside down. Contrary to critics who see looters of a Target as “destroying their own community,” it’s more accurate to say that they have transformed an institution that existed to siphon profits out of their neighborhood to outside investors into a project that actually serves their immediate material needs. Destroying the barriers that separate our communities from the resources we need is one of the most crucial things we can do to transform our society. Abolishing the police is a step towards accomplishing this, while ending the killings they perpetrate.
Delegitimize and disempower all the institutions that excuse police murder.
One of the reasons why cops get away with murder so often is that the Supreme Court has interpreted laws to grant police “qualified immunity” for killing people—which has happened in over half of the cases that reached appellate courts in the past five years. Why should an unrepentant rapist and his cronies be in the position to authorize cops to kill us whenever they see fit? For that matter, why should they be able to determine whether we can have abortions, or how we can organize unions, or the limits of indigenous sovereignty, or anything else?
The persistence of police murder is just one of the risks we engender by relinquishing our power to nine black-robed figures. To ensure our freedom, we must take back our self-determination from the clutches of the courts.
The more we can delegitimize the authority of Supreme Courts to shape our lives, and the more powerful and creative we can make our alternatives, the less we will have to fear from the Trumps and Kavanaughs of the world. Let’s build a society that enables everyone to engage in genuine self-determination—in which no man can decide what all of us may do with our bodies—in which no state can take away our power to shape our future.
While we’re at it, what about those politicians? If electing new officials can’t stop the police from killing us, what good are they? If we really want to secure our future against the arbitrary power of the authorities, we can’t go half way. As we organize in our neighborhoods to share and distribute resources, let’s lay the groundwork for a new grassroots form of political organization that can exercise power directly without need for representatives. Inspired by the council system in the Kurdish territories of Rojava, the assemblies of the Greek anarchist movement, the student strikes in Montréal, and many other examples, we can build a new world from the bottom up, without politicians at the top to boss us around.
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lowbrow
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: shivas.wisdom] 1
#26713646 - 06/02/20 10:18 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I’m not going to engage you in your illogical strawman arguments, please quit trying.
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!


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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26713650 - 06/02/20 10:19 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I wish you’d quit trying to incite violence.
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qman
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26713657 - 06/02/20 10:23 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I would also try to create a program of having more local people policing their own communities, or at least a certain percentage. Bringing in people from outside of the community creates a lot of disconnect in my opinion. I know we live in a very busy world where people relocate all the time for a variety of reasons, but having a large percentage of people that grew up and now live in the community is essential in my opinion.
Reforming law enforcement and the criminal justice system is very important, but using the same people is still problematic. The people protesting must convince people from within their own community to enter the police force and justice system.
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PumpJackTeX
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: qman] 2
#26713672 - 06/02/20 10:32 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: qman]
#26713674 - 06/02/20 10:32 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: I would also try to create a program of having more local people policing their own communities, or at least a certain percentage. Bringing in people from outside of the community creates a lot of disconnect in my opinion. I know we live in a very busy world where people relocate all the time for a variety of reasons, but having a large percentage of people that grew up and now live in the community is essential in my opinion.
Reforming law enforcement and the criminal justice system is very important, but using the same people is still problematic. The people protesting must convince people from within their own community to enter the police force and justice system.
Yeah, I would completely agree. In the first draft of these demands, that I saw, #3 was written: "Refocus police resources on training & de-escalation instead of purchasing military equipment and require LEOs to be from the community they police." but I guess that was technically two demands in one so it got simplify to "community building" - but maybe with the implicit understanding that you can't really engage in community building without becoming a part of that community.
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The Blind Ass
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26713742 - 06/02/20 10:59 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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That’s a solid demand, I don’t know how feasible it is off the top of my head, but the implications look like they could be pretty good- potentially.
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pirate-blues


Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 13,655
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26713758 - 06/02/20 11:04 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think it's feasible with better recruiting practices. Maybe not that every person is born and raised there, but that at least lives there - or that the department prioritizes people who live in the area slightly over others with equal qualifications. That might be enough to shift the culture so that it is more community oriented in general even if there are some cops who don't live there.
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