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Asante
Mage


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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#26748682 - 06/16/20 10:28 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: Of course the chances of a white man being killed by a black is much much less than a white man being killed by a white - but many people want to ignore that fact.
white on white crime, horrible, there is so much of it and there is such a rich history of it.
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feevers


Registered: 12/28/10
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: RJ Tubs 202] 5
#26748684 - 06/16/20 10:29 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
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qman said:
Well, the economic discrepancy between the working class based on racial categories really isn't there, but obviously The Elite use the MSM and political system to instill the perception that it's very large and it's based on racial discrimination.
Hasn't this been going on for decades - stoking people into an angry frenzy? Isn't what we see right now a result of a mountain of cumulative messages such as this? Over and over I hear black people say they are afraid of going about their daily business for fear of being killed by a white. Of course the chances of a black man being killed by a white is much much less than a black man being killed by a black - but many people want to ignore that fact.
You must be hanging out with a fun crowd if that's what people around you are saying. Or you're just putting too much stock in what you see on TV or twitter.
The reality is that the murder is just a small part of the problem, systemic racism is pretty much the foundation of the american law enforcement and justice industry. They don't have to kill you to ruin you.
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qman
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: feevers] 4
#26748732 - 06/16/20 11:05 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
feevers said:
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
qman said:
Well, the economic discrepancy between the working class based on racial categories really isn't there, but obviously The Elite use the MSM and political system to instill the perception that it's very large and it's based on racial discrimination.
Hasn't this been going on for decades - stoking people into an angry frenzy? Isn't what we see right now a result of a mountain of cumulative messages such as this? Over and over I hear black people say they are afraid of going about their daily business for fear of being killed by a white. Of course the chances of a black man being killed by a white is much much less than a black man being killed by a black - but many people want to ignore that fact.
You must be hanging out with a fun crowd if that's what people around you are saying. Or you're just putting too much stock in what you see on TV or twitter.
The reality is that the murder is just a small part of the problem, systemic racism is pretty much the foundation of the american law enforcement and justice industry. They don't have to kill you to ruin you.
One could also argue that systemic classism is the foundation as well, but guess what, The Elite don't want people thinking in those terms. They want the racial divide on an issue that affects all races and ethnicities.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


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Posts: 31,456
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: qman] 1
#26748751 - 06/16/20 11:25 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah the whole thing is often framed around divisions rather than commonalities. Not by everyone of course but the extremists do shape public discourse. The police state undoubtedly affects black people disproportionately, but even if police brutality and senseless imprisonment were meted out evenly among races it would still be a shit show.
My feeling is that the anti-racist movement I knew as a kid was more focused on those commonalities. Came across this video today that I found pretty inspirational. There was this couple who did these fitness segments during commercial breaks during the late 80s and early 90s. Did not realize at the time that the guy had black ancestry. Good story on how he did not let the shitheads get him down though.
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: qman] 1
#26748756 - 06/16/20 11:29 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Can it be both?
I agree that class division is the foundation of systemic inequality, and divide-and-conquer one of the favourite tools of ruling powers - but I also believe that any critique of, and response to, class division that doesn't take into account the different ways class issues can manifest depending on ethnicity, gender, sexuality, ableness, etc will be insufficient to meaningfully address the root of the problem.
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: shivas.wisdom] 1
#26748759 - 06/16/20 11:30 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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I would say "as well" implies that it's both.
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: Asante]
#26748817 - 06/16/20 12:06 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said:
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: Of course the chances of a white man being killed by a black is much much less than a white man being killed by a white - but many people want to ignore that fact.
white on white crime, horrible, there is so much of it and there is such a rich history of it.
Blacks are also involved in 8 times as many murders as all other races black on black being the biggest portion of this. But then somehow its a huge shock and injustice theyre shot the most by police. Go look up violent crime and gun statistics on blacks too or maybe thats just the racist system lying or somehting who knows at this point
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: psi] 1
#26748837 - 06/16/20 12:14 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
psi said: I would say "as well" implies that it's both.
You're probably right. I guess I read the "as well" like this: One could also argue [as well] that systemic classism is the foundation
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts


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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26748841 - 06/16/20 12:16 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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you would view it purely as class based unless ur a racist like BLM and its brainwashed supporters
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: shivas.wisdom] 1
#26748849 - 06/16/20 12:19 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
psi said: I would say "as well" implies that it's both.
You're probably right. I guess I read the "as well" like this: One could also argue [as well] that systemic classism is the foundation
Yeah that interpretation of the wording does make sense. qman has been surprising me lately though.
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tyrannicalrex
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: psi] 1
#26748926 - 06/16/20 01:02 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
psi said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
psi said: I would say "as well" implies that it's both.
You're probably right. I guess I read the "as well" like this: One could also argue [as well] that systemic classism is the foundation
Yeah that interpretation of the wording does make sense. qman has been surprising me lately though.
ditto
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psi
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
#26748931 - 06/16/20 01:04 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Quote:
Asante said:
Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said: Of course the chances of a white man being killed by a black is much much less than a white man being killed by a white - but many people want to ignore that fact.
white on white crime, horrible, there is so much of it and there is such a rich history of it.
Blacks are also involved in 8 times as many murders as all other races black on black being the biggest portion of this. But then somehow its a huge shock and injustice theyre shot the most by police. Go look up violent crime and gun statistics on blacks too or maybe thats just the racist system lying or somehting who knows at this point
Sure, that is at least a partial explanation for the police shooting stats. None of that excuses even a single unjustified incident of police brutality though. And those certainly do happen.
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: psi]
#26749054 - 06/16/20 01:48 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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yah but is that the system or is that some asshole?
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL] 1
#26749079 - 06/16/20 01:55 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Both I would say.
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: qman] 3
#26749565 - 06/16/20 05:00 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: One could also argue that systemic classism is the foundation as well, but guess what, The Elite don't want people thinking in those terms. They want the racial divide on an issue that affects all races and ethnicities.
Systemic racism is systemic classism tho not all white people owned slaves -- but the systems of slavery and post slavery make it disproportionately difficult for poor blacks to find the same opportunities as poor whites but let us not forget that systemic racism also means that people with an Irish background also have less opportunities in the social sphere than whites of other backgrounds
First Nations face similar due to a history of Colonialism and Post-Colonial systems of discrimination
but the "difference" is that the Irish were never literally slaves on the US soil and when slavery was abolished social discriminations still existed but they did not have to fight their way through not being recognized as a full and valid person
it is only a racial divide if you are one of the idiots who gets caught up in the Oppression Olympics and trying to rate the nuance of individual discrimination rather than simply recognize that variations of minority status result in addition of different forms of discrimination, not necessarily quantitatively more per se
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere and all that better to recognize and confront systemic racism as a tool the Elite use to further diminish the poor and to help destroy or dismantle that tool and get us back to being united than to act like it's not "our" problem because it disproportionately impacts someone else in our class the decision to view recognition of systemic racism as a tool of the Elite to separate us and not deal with it is a decision to support the structures impressed upon the poor by the Elite
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qman
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: Tantrika] 1
#26749711 - 06/16/20 05:59 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tantrika said:
Quote:
qman said: One could also argue that systemic classism is the foundation as well, but guess what, The Elite don't want people thinking in those terms. They want the racial divide on an issue that affects all races and ethnicities.
Systemic racism is systemic classism tho not all white people owned slaves -- but the systems of slavery and post slavery make it disproportionately difficult for poor blacks to find the same opportunities as poor whites but let us not forget that systemic racism also means that people with an Irish background also have less opportunities in the social sphere than whites of other backgrounds
First Nations face similar due to a history of Colonialism and Post-Colonial systems of discrimination
but the "difference" is that the Irish were never literally slaves on the US soil and when slavery was abolished social discriminations still existed but they did not have to fight their way through not being recognized as a full and valid person
it is only a racial divide if you are one of the idiots who gets caught up in the Oppression Olympics and trying to rate the nuance of individual discrimination rather than simply recognize that variations of minority status result in addition of different forms of discrimination, not necessarily quantitatively more per se
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere and all that better to recognize and confront systemic racism as a tool the Elite use to further diminish the poor and to help destroy or dismantle that tool and get us back to being united than to act like it's not "our" problem because it disproportionately impacts someone else in our class the decision to view recognition of systemic racism as a tool of the Elite to separate us and not deal with it is a decision to support the structures impressed upon the poor by the Elite
Nobody is saying to completely ignore the racism aspect of the unjust criminal justice system, but it's important to acknowledge that The Elite are always pushing the narrative into that direction.
Many white people love believing that the police only abuse and brutalize non-white citizens, it makes them feel safer and more privileged in their own minds. They don't want to think that they'll ever be on the receiving end of the same unjust system. They live in their own bubbles, completely oblivious to the fact whites are also in the exact same predicament when it comes to this system.
It's 2020, it's time for unification on reforming the criminal justice system, if people keep on using historical events to destroy that potential unification, nothing will ever change on this issue. If you want to exclude certain demographics due to the disproportionate level of the abuse, then by all means support the racial exclusivity that's being promoted today.
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: qman] 1
#26749742 - 06/16/20 06:08 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: Many white people love believing that the police only abuse and brutalize non-white citizens, it makes them feel safer and more privileged in their own minds. They don't want to think that they'll ever be on the receiving end of the same unjust system...
Many won't primarily middle class rather than lower class tho the middle class is mainly an illusion of social achievement the rich use to further divide the collective poor

Many will have pleasant interactions with police all their life and then insist the problem of minorities getting killed is a matter of resisting
but am certainly not trying to deny that disadvantaged whites can be absolutely brutalized by systemic discrimination in their own lives

but also am fully aware that recognizing the systemic disadvantages that other races also face is an act of unifying and supporting people
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Asante
Mage


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Posts: 86,795
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: Tantrika]
#26751085 - 06/17/20 08:58 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tantrika said:


CONTEXT:
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koods
Ribbit



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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: Asante]
#26751094 - 06/17/20 09:06 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Lady cop breaks down after having to wait a few minutes for her McMuffin. These protests are getting to them.
https://twitter.com/elijahdaniel/status/1273226952518692865?s=21
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Asante
Mage


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Posts: 86,795
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Re: Chaos in Minneapolis, MN last night regarding the death of George Floyd [Re: koods] 1
#26751124 - 06/17/20 09:19 AM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Lady cop breaks down after having to wait a few minutes for her McMuffin. These protests are getting to them.
https://twitter.com/elijahdaniel/status/1273226952518692865?s=21
Twitter failed to work for me, the vid didnt load, but I tracked down Officer Karen's meltdown on Youtube, for those with the same problem 
Its almost like she was pulled over for driving whuile black for the first time but no, sh just had to wait for mcdonalds.
This frail ego carries handcuffs, pepperspray, a taser, baton and gun.
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