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Offlinezzrot
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Was given pre-sterilized brf cakes. Do I use them (all, half, or none)?
    #26697671 - 05/26/20 06:15 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I am growing for the first time ever via pf tek with brf cakes. I was given 12 free pre-filled, pre-sterilized, ready to go jars from a friend. He bought the jars from a sponsored vendor, so they should've been sterilized well. Keep in mind that these have been sitting in his room wrapped up (plastic wrap covering all the jars) for 1-2 years, they've probably been tilted/ bumped around a bit, and I opened the wrapping a couple days ago so they've been exposed to air. They all have tin foil + coffee filter + rubber band tightly sealing the lids though.

I understand that most people recommend just making your own cakes. However, since these were free and they're completely ready to go, I figured maybe I should use them. I also figure maybe they've been sterilized better than I would be able to if I sterilized myself.

My question is this: Should I use all the pre-made jars? Or would it be better to scrape all the substrate out/ clean the jars/ make my own substrate and sterilize them via pressure cooker myself? Or perhaps I could use half and then make half myself as a mini experiment? Any and all help is greatly appreciated and thank you in advance.


Edited by zzrot (05/26/20 06:17 PM)


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OfflineGan
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Re: Was given pre-sterilized brf cakes. Do I use them (all, half, or none)? [Re: zzrot]
    #26697714 - 05/26/20 06:44 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zzrot said:
I also figure maybe they've been sterilized better than I would be able to if I sterilized myself.



Actually probably not. Most vendor sterilized spawn I've seen here contams. It could also be from poor sterile technique during inoculation, but there's a reason most people here recommend doing it yourself. Normally, doing it yourself produces a better product for significantly cheaper.

Quote:

zzrot said:My question is this: Should I use all the pre-made jars? Or would it be better to scrape all the substrate out/ clean the jars/ make my own substrate and sterilize them via pressure cooker myself? Or perhaps I could use half and then make half myself as a mini experiment? Any and all help is greatly appreciated and thank you in advance.




If they've been sitting for that long, the moisture content is more than likely not adequate. That being said, they COULD potentially work, but definitely wouldn't be as good as fresher cakes. Obviously, I would recommend making them yourselves. But you can also inoculate them just to see what happens if you have the time.


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Offlinezzrot
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Re: Was given pre-sterilized brf cakes. Do I use them (all, half, or none)? [Re: Gan]
    #26697741 - 05/26/20 06:57 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Gan said:
If they've been sitting for that long, the moisture content is more than likely not adequate. That being said, they COULD potentially work, but definitely wouldn't be as good as fresher cakes. Obviously, I would recommend making them yourselves. But you can also inoculate them just to see what happens if you have the time.



I was wondering about moisture content. I suppose I'll go ahead and make them all myself then. Two follow up questions: 1) Is cleaning the jars out with soap + water good enough or should I wipe the insides down with ISO as well? 2) Since my pressure cooker can only hold 6-8 ish at a time, and I have 12 jars, is it okay if I inoculate them one day apart, and then double stack them in my SGFC? This one day lag wouldn't make them too far apart in their growing processes right?

And thank you for the help :smile:


Edited by zzrot (05/26/20 06:58 PM)


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OfflineGan
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Re: Was given pre-sterilized brf cakes. Do I use them (all, half, or none)? [Re: zzrot]
    #26697767 - 05/26/20 07:06 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

zzrot said:
1) Is cleaning the jars out with soap + water good enough or should I wipe the insides down with ISO as well?



If you have a pressure cooker and are sterilizing them at the proper pressure and correct time for the pressure you're using, any contams will be killed during the PC cycle. Thus, it's not a huge deal how clean they are prior to prepping them. If you have ISO, go ahead and wipe them out with that, simply because it'll probably physically clean them better. If not, just some soap and water and don't worry about it.

Quote:

zzrot said:
2) Since my pressure cooker can only hold 6-8 ish at a time, and I have 12 jars, is it okay if I inoculate them one day apart, and then double stack them in my SGFC? This one day lag wouldn't make them too far apart in their growing processes right?




Yeah that's fine. Make sure you make your BRF substrate correctly, throw your vermiculite filter layer on top of your substrate, throw the lid on top of the jars, poke 2-4 small holes in the lid of the jar, put some micropore tape on the 2-4 holes, then put aluminum foil over the lid of every jar when they go in the PC. After your first 6-8 jars come out of the PC put them in your SAB to cool and leave the aluminum foil on the tops of ALL of your jars until they are ready to inoculate. Are you following a reputable tek/video for making your jars?


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Offlinezzrot
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Re: Was given pre-sterilized brf cakes. Do I use them (all, half, or none)? [Re: Gan]
    #26697800 - 05/26/20 07:23 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Gan said:
If you have a pressure cooker and are sterilizing them at the proper pressure and correct time for the pressure you're using, any contams will be killed during the PC cycle. Thus, it's not a huge deal how clean they are prior to prepping them. If you have ISO, go ahead and wipe them out with that, simply because it'll probably physically clean them better. If not, just some soap and water and don't worry about it.



:thumbup:
Quote:

Gan said:
Yeah that's fine. Make sure you make your BRF substrate correctly, throw your vermiculite filter layer on top of your substrate, throw the lid on top of the jars, poke 2-4 small holes in the lid of the jar, put some micropore tape on the 2-4 holes, then put aluminum foil over the lid of every jar when they go in the PC. After your first 6-8 jars come out of the PC put them in your SAB to cool and leave the aluminum foil on the tops of ALL of your jars until they are ready to inoculate. Are you following a reputable tek/video for making your jars?



That was basically my exact plan - however I was going to do half with micropore tape, half without, since I've heard conflicting opinions on this. The ones that do have micropore tape I plan on re-taping after inoculating, and then taking the tape off after the mycelium is 50-70% colonized in the jars. If you think I should just micropore them all then I will do that.

Follow up questions: 1) Am I suppose to loosen the jar rings slightly before pressure cooking, and then tighten them after pressure cooking? I heard I was supposed to do this but only from one source. 2) Do you think I should wait for both batches of jars to be done PC'ing, then inoculate them all at once? Or inoculate them a day apart (i.e. Day 1: 1st PC'd, Day 2: 1st noc'd, 2nd PC'd, Day 3: 2nd noc'd)? I ask because I may be interpreting what you said about leaving them in the SAB to cool as in I should inoculate them all together.

In regards to the sources of my information, I've read up on the big pf tek guides on here, some of RR's advice, as well as "Magic for the Masses" which is a pdf/book on pf tek. I've also done a lot of googling for smaller questions I've had. From this I made my own word doc with a summary which is basically me squaring everything I've read online.


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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Re: Was given pre-sterilized brf cakes. Do I use them (all, half, or none)? [Re: zzrot]
    #26697819 - 05/26/20 07:30 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

:whathesaid:

For Brf cakes, follow this Tek, word for word.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24179086#24179086



1) No, do not play around with jar rings.

2) Inoculate as soon as they’re ready. I leave mine in the PC overnight to cool the inoculate as soon as I remove them and transport them to my SAB.

I’ve never used micropore tape and never had issues. The dry verm layer is your filter.


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OfflineGan
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Re: Was given pre-sterilized brf cakes. Do I use them (all, half, or none)? [Re: zzrot]
    #26697835 - 05/26/20 07:36 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Um I've never heard much about MP tape being an issue. I assume, since you talked about removing it at a certain colonization percent, someone thinks it has to do with increasing airflow to the mycellium. MP tape over the holes are just a secondary layer of protection against contams. The primary protection is the top verm layer. So make sure that the verm layer doesn't get wet at all (hence the aluminum foil over the jars while in the PC).

As for loosening your jar lids, um it's not really necessary for PF tek, since you're inoculating your jars with a syringe through the lid. Thus, the lid doesn't need to be removed until they're ready to spawn. However, make sure you close them with the seal up, because if you do them with the seal down it'll be a bitch to open. Also, don't crank em down super tight before the PC cycle. Just make sure they're firmly closed and they'll be fine.

Personally, I would just wait until all the jars were sterilized and cooled off, then inoculate them all at once. Mostly just cause I'm a lazy fuck that doesn't wanna prep my SAB twice, if I only need to do it once. But if you wanna do them in multiple sets, that's fine too. Just make sure they're cooled off first. Leave the foil over the top of them and put them on a non-drafty shelf and they'll be fine to sit for a good while if you need them to.


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InvisibleCaps McGee
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Re: Was given pre-sterilized brf cakes. Do I use them (all, half, or none)? [Re: Gan]
    #26697909 - 05/26/20 08:05 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

DIY TIL I DIE! Sooo many people and so much time has passed between you and the sterilization process: youd likely be better off half ass sterilizing at home... At least youd have a jump on the bacterial bloom

Could always resterilize before inoculating?


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Offlinezzrot
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Re: Was given pre-sterilized brf cakes. Do I use them (all, half, or none)? [Re: Gan]
    #26697930 - 05/26/20 08:15 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Socrateshroom said:
:whathesaid:

For Brf cakes, follow this Tek, word for word.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24179086#24179086



1) No, do not play around with jar rings.

2) Inoculate as soon as they’re ready. I leave mine in the PC overnight to cool the inoculate as soon as I remove them and transport them to my SAB.

I’ve never used micropore tape and never had issues. The dry verm layer is your filter.



I'm basically following that tek exactly, just a couple slight modifications that suit my needs (not straying too far off the path though). I was told that no filters on the inoculation holes + tight rings = BOOM in the pressure cooker. So this isn't true?

Quote:

Gan said:
Um I've never heard much about MP tape being an issue. I assume, since you talked about removing it at a certain colonization percent, someone thinks it has to do with increasing airflow to the mycellium. MP tape over the holes are just a secondary layer of protection against contams. The primary protection is the top verm layer. So make sure that the verm layer doesn't get wet at all (hence the aluminum foil over the jars while in the PC).

As for loosening your jar lids, um it's not really necessary for PF tek, since you're inoculating your jars with a syringe through the lid. Thus, the lid doesn't need to be removed until they're ready to spawn. However, make sure you close them with the seal up, because if you do them with the seal down it'll be a bitch to open. Also, don't crank em down super tight before the PC cycle. Just make sure they're firmly closed and they'll be fine.

Personally, I would just wait until all the jars were sterilized and cooled off, then inoculate them all at once. Mostly just cause I'm a lazy fuck that doesn't wanna prep my SAB twice, if I only need to do it once. But if you wanna do them in multiple sets, that's fine too. Just make sure they're cooled off first. Leave the foil over the top of them and put them on a non-drafty shelf and they'll be fine to sit for a good while if you need them to.



I suppose I'll micropore tape all of them pre-PC, and then half of them I'll take the tape off and leave it off while inoculating/ during colonization (trying to diversify my risk, as many people say to have jars covered with mp tape while colonizing, many say the verm layer is enough, so may as well experiment myself). Also seal up is the default way the lids come correct?


Edited by zzrot (05/26/20 08:15 PM)


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OfflineGan
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Re: Was given pre-sterilized brf cakes. Do I use them (all, half, or none)? [Re: zzrot]
    #26697947 - 05/26/20 08:24 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Lids normally come seal down. The seal is the red circle around the outside of the inner circle component of the lid. Also, don't worry too much about MP tape on or MP tape off. At this point in your experience, it your grow fails or has troubles I would highly doubt it's the fault of your use or absence of MP tape over your holes.


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Offlinezzrot
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Re: Was given pre-sterilized brf cakes. Do I use them (all, half, or none)? [Re: Gan]
    #26697989 - 05/26/20 08:45 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Gan said:
Lids normally come seal down. The seal is the red circle around the outside of the inner circle component of the lid. Also, don't worry too much about MP tape on or MP tape off. At this point in your experience, it your grow fails or has troubles I would highly doubt it's the fault of your use or absence of MP tape over your holes.



Okay cool. And just to completely clarify, if I have the seal turned upside down, the ring on fairly tight, and if I have micropore tape on or off, the jars won't explode in the pressure cooker in either case?


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OfflineGan
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Re: Was given pre-sterilized brf cakes. Do I use them (all, half, or none)? [Re: zzrot]
    #26698017 - 05/26/20 09:01 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Umm..... They shouldn't explode. That would require them to build up pressure inside the jar, which shouldn't be possible if you have holes in the top of the lids. They can crack, sure. But not explode. I'm not saying that's impossible, but if I was a betting man I'd say that there was something else wrong that caused the jars to explode. You can ask around more to get more opinions, but in my 3.5-4 years of cultivating I have not heard of any PF tek jars exploding, assuming the person sterilizing them had done everything correctly.


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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Re: Was given pre-sterilized brf cakes. Do I use them (all, half, or none)? [Re: Gan]
    #26698588 - 05/27/20 04:45 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I’ve had the rings on as tight as humanly possible before and never had an explosion in my pressure cooker. Although I had trouble taking the lid off when it came time to birth because it was so tight (easily fixed by running it under hot water)

:whathesaid:

Gan is correct.


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Edited by Socrateshroom (05/27/20 04:45 AM)


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