Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   OlympusMyco.com Olympus Myco Bulk Substrate   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineBlue Helix
bold hand
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
Last seen: 10 months, 5 days
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Strange white masses in pan cyan substrate [Re: Puduwoke]
    #26699387 - 05/27/20 12:57 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Okay, it's day 8 post casing and I see pins off the trays with the masses.  It's nothing special at this point, although I'd say the pins are larger than I usually see, but it's hard to tell this early how many will sprout.  I will post pictures later, but I wanted to update this thread because I said I could not get mushrooms off trays that had those blobs.  Well, that's not true now.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePuduwoke
mushroom enthusiastic

Registered: 06/25/17
Posts: 1,666
Last seen: 8 days, 16 hours
Re: Strange white masses in pan cyan substrate [Re: Blue Helix]
    #26699417 - 05/27/20 01:06 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Keep us updated please :takingnotes:


--------------------
:sporedrop:Trade List:sporedrop:

LAGM2021

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlue Helix
bold hand
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
Last seen: 10 months, 5 days
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Strange white masses in pan cyan substrate [Re: A.k.a]
    #26699418 - 05/27/20 01:07 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

A.k.a said:
For sure, I’m just saying in general for whoever asked one of the instructional threads said less spawn than cubes does better.


Next time an lc produces some of these some should be put to grain and plates to see if there’s anyway to ID it early on.




I use the following formula for the bulk sub (makes 10 pounds about):

Horse manure 44 oz
WBS 10 oz
Water     100 oz
Vermiculite 1.5 liter

As you can see, there is WBS in there, so nutritionally speaking, it's as if I spawned a bulk sub.  The reason I don't really like spawning is simply because I've done it with cubes, and I was not impressed with the yield.  Cubes should fruit so densely that you can't see the casing like this (these trays were around 100% biological efficiency):



The pin set should be about like this, if not better:



I wasn't seeing that with spawning, but using LC techniques direct to bulk substrate this was common.  If spawning worked as well as what I'm doing, I'd use it, but for me it doesn't.  In fact some of my biggest disappointments were spawning cubes to straw.  I'd get like 50 mushrooms over several square feet of the surface and one flush for like 5% BE.  I don't know what I did wrong, but I just stopped bothering because it wouldn't produce consistent high-yield results for me.

PS - that cube strain was Ecuadorian.  Here's what the bags looked like:

2 days after inoculation:


4 days after inoculation:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlue Helix
bold hand
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
Last seen: 10 months, 5 days
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Strange white masses in pan cyan substrate [Re: Blue Helix]
    #26699512 - 05/27/20 01:34 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Here was one of my favorite wild collections.  For some reason I didn't get second-flush pictures, but check this out:

Flush 1:


Flush 3:


Flush 4:


Flush 5:


After the fifth flush, I just got tired of picking them, so I retired the trays.  I think I could have gotten another couple flushes, though.  Again, this was a wild collection that yielded about 60% BE over those five flushes.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineA.k.aM
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 17,072
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 1 hour, 53 minutes
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Strange white masses in pan cyan substrate [Re: Blue Helix]
    #26699623 - 05/27/20 02:18 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah those are super sick tubs. Love when the pins come in dense like that.

Do you know why lc to bulk seems to work better? Or have any theories?


Now that I’ve finally got pan jam clones maybe I’ll try both and see if I get a big difference like that. Those last pictures are insane, flushing that thick five times.


--------------------
LAGM2020

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlue Helix
bold hand
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
Last seen: 10 months, 5 days
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Strange white masses in pan cyan substrate [Re: A.k.a]
    #26699679 - 05/27/20 02:37 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

A.k.a said:
Yeah those are super sick tubs. Love when the pins come in dense like that.

Do you know why lc to bulk seems to work better? Or have any theories?


Now that I’ve finally got pan jam clones maybe I’ll try both and see if I get a big difference like that. Those last pictures are insane, flushing that thick five times.




The more thoroughly and evenly you can colonize a substrate, the better it'll produce mushrooms.  When you have an LC, it reaches everywhere in the bulk substrate right away.  Then it's sterile in the spawn bag, so it colonizes it rapidly and completely without any competition from bacteria or mold.  Spawning methods can be just as good, but for me they were not.  I think in my case, I was seeing the effect of the substrate temperature being too low.  That transitioned the substrate into pinning in some spots even before it was fully colonized in others.  I don't know why that happened, but I couldn't figure out how to stop it.  The mycelium just colonized too slowly and not as evenly with spawning, especially with very large beds.  I couldn't find anyone who knew why either.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHans Wermhat
Human


Registered: 06/10/19
Posts: 167
Re: Strange white masses in pan cyan substrate [Re: A.k.a]
    #26699724 - 05/27/20 02:53 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I've noticed when prepping rye, that if I mix dry rye and water straight in the jar and sterilize (like how RGS is usually prepped), they colonize faster than if I prep rye the normal way (boiling rye in a giant pot of water to hydrate and then straining). I was surprised by this and repeated it many more times, same result. The downside though is that hydrating and sterilizing in one step in the jars makes a lot of burst grains and makes it harder to shake. My guess is that when we prep our grains by boiling in a giant pot of water and then pouring all that water down the drain, it leeches out a ton of the nutrients from the grains, whereas putting dry grains with bulk sub in a bag and sterilizing saves all the nutrients, like hydrating and sterilizing all-in-one in the jar. I saw a write up by violet where she says something to that effect.

As far as spawning to pasteurized bulk versus using bags, I've had better results spawning to bulk, but then again my Pan grows haven't been nearly as impressive as Blue Helix's. Spawning to bulk it fully colonize in well under a week, typically around 5 days.


--------------------
Thank you for taking the time to read this message. Have a wonderful day.

Edited by Hans Wermhat (05/27/20 02:54 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlue Helix
bold hand
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
Last seen: 10 months, 5 days
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Strange white masses in pan cyan substrate [Re: Hans Wermhat]
    #26699762 - 05/27/20 03:12 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Hans Wermhat said:
I've noticed when prepping rye, that if I mix dry rye and water straight in the jar and sterilize (like how RGS is usually prepped), they colonize faster than if I prep rye the normal way (boiling rye in a giant pot of water to hydrate and then straining). I was surprised by this and repeated it many more times, same result. The downside though is that hydrating and sterilizing in one step in the jars makes a lot of burst grains and makes it harder to shake. My guess is that when we prep our grains by boiling in a giant pot of water and then pouring all that water down the drain, it leeches out a ton of the nutrients from the grains, whereas putting dry grains with bulk sub in a bag and sterilizing saves all the nutrients, like hydrating and sterilizing all-in-one in the jar. I saw a write up by violet where she says something to that effect.

As far as spawning to pasteurized bulk versus using bags, I've had better results spawning to bulk, but then again my Pan grows haven't been nearly as impressive as Blue Helix's. Spawning to bulk it fully colonize in well under a week, typically around 5 days.





When I make the bulk substrate in the bags, I do not boil the wild bird seed or strain it.  It just goes in dry, and the measurements above are for dry seed.  That might actually help the substrate have more nutrition.  LC injected in a spawn bag usually colonized the bag in 5 to 8 days, depending on a bunch of other factors. 

The spawn bags I use hold up to 10 pounds of substrate each, so a single bag can make 4 trays.  If you do the math, it's about 160g dried pan cyans then for a single bag with a decent run (and about 50% more from a perfect run).  Since pan cyans are about 5X as potent, if not more, than cubes, it's like harvesting almost 2 POUNDS DRY of cubensis from a SINGLE SPAWN BAG!  Now I see a lot of okay grows here, but when you are pulling that much material out of a single spawn bag, I don't see a reason to do it any other way.  The only exception would be if you start to do professional trays that are 8 or 10 square feet each in some country where all this is a legal enterprise.  That's different, but honestly, even then I'm not sure which technique would yield pounds easier.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlue Helix
bold hand
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
Last seen: 10 months, 5 days
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Strange white masses in pan cyan substrate [Re: Blue Helix]
    #26704687 - 05/29/20 01:36 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Okay, it's day 10 post case, so development was pretty much normal.  There seemed to be a bit of stalling in the overall development, so I brought back down the relative humidity to 97% (from the 100% I was experimenting with).  That grew them out normally overnight.

The most prominent thing I notice is an extremely poor pin set despite the near-perfect casing colonization.  The blobs--which I thought spelled doom to the whole grow--seem to have softened as the fruits developed.  And the casing itself still looks perfect with no mold or anything showing. 

The fruits themselves have larger caps than usual (almost Cambo-like), but the stems are sicklily twisted as if I grew them without light or air exchange (there was plenty of full-spectrum light, though).  Stems should be straight in a good run, and when I see this in other's grows, I assume poor air exchange or light (but that was not the case here).

I guess I'll never know what makes rare screw-ups like this happen. It wasn't the blobs I feared. I guess I'll assume bad genetics, so obviously, I won't take any prints from the fruits.  And the associated LC will be disposed of.  That is unless a practical miracle happens in a subsequent flush (and I've never seen that happen).



PS - If this was the fourth to the fifth flush, I would be happy with it (especially that left tray), but as a first flush, this is a failure in my book.

PSS - The aragonite layer made absolutely no difference.  I'll keep using it in the casing until I test it, but I won't bother with my aragonite layer directly on the substrate.  I had originally thought that is what helped me defeat overlay, but I now see that the way you defeat overlay is simply having the trays recover for 48 hours after you lay them before you case them.  That consolidation time is critical to avoid overlay in an overlay-prone strain.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineA.k.aM
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 17,072
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 1 hour, 53 minutes
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Strange white masses in pan cyan substrate [Re: Blue Helix]
    #26704696 - 05/29/20 01:39 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Those are some big caps.

Have you tried putting the lc to agar to see what it looks like? I’m curious if there’s some sort of correlation with how the myc looks. It’d take a lot of experimenting to nail it down but still.


--------------------
LAGM2020

Edited by A.k.a (05/29/20 01:40 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlue Helix
bold hand
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
Last seen: 10 months, 5 days
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Strange white masses in pan cyan substrate [Re: A.k.a]
    #26704712 - 05/29/20 01:47 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

A.k.a said:
Those are some big caps.

Have you tried putting the lc to agar to see what it looks like? I’m curious if there’s some sort of correlation with how the myc looks. It’d take a lot of experimenting to nail it down but still.




Yes, I did.  Two interesting things happened.  The first was that the mycelium was thicker than I would expect for pan cyan.  I like pan cyan on agar to be whispy and rapidly, symmetrically projecting, but this was kind of thick, not symmetrical, and not that fast.  The second--and this one really blew my mind--was that after a month in the refrigerator, the mycelium flattened out and took on a slight bit of beige color, almost as if it was contaminated with something (both plates showed this).  And maybe it IS contaminated, but if so, it didn't prevent the flush obviously.

I definitely will be curious about what happens the second flush.  If it's amazing, you'll see it here!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlue Helix
bold hand
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
Last seen: 10 months, 5 days
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Strange white masses in pan cyan substrate [Re: Blue Helix]
    #26704793 - 05/29/20 02:21 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Blue Helix said:
Quote:

A.k.a said:
Those are some big caps.

Have you tried putting the lc to agar to see what it looks like? I’m curious if there’s some sort of correlation with how the myc looks. It’d take a lot of experimenting to nail it down but still.




Yes, I did.  Two interesting things happened.  The first was that the mycelium was thicker than I would expect for pan cyan.  I like pan cyan on agar to be whispy and rapidly, symmetrically projecting, but this was kind of thick, not symmetrical, and not that fast.  The second--and this one really blew my mind--was that after a month in the refrigerator, the mycelium flattened out and took on a slight bit of beige color, almost as if it was contaminated with something (both plates showed this).  And maybe it IS contaminated, but if so, it didn't prevent the flush obviously.

I definitely will be curious about what happens the second flush.  If it's amazing, you'll see it here!




I noticed that some places on the casing had that beige color that I saw on the agar plates.  It was where the casing growth was thicker.  Maybe it's just what happens to this mycelium as it ages or maybe it is contamination.  It looks like it's probably not contamination, though.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineA.k.aM
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 10/27/19
Posts: 17,072
Loc: Gaming the system
Last seen: 1 hour, 53 minutes
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Strange white masses in pan cyan substrate [Re: Blue Helix]
    #26704815 - 05/29/20 02:26 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Interesting.

I’m just doing my first run with stone producers and was told that on plates the myc gets an orange color to it prior to stone formation.

Idk if that’s true or not but maybe in rare cases the pans produce stones. That could explain the color and also why the flushes aren’t as heavy if it’s using energy for that at the same time.


I know there’s that blue pearl pan and I’ve also had tons of weird stone like things on my plates. Haven’t found them in the sub so far.


--------------------
LAGM2020

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlue Helix
bold hand
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
Last seen: 10 months, 5 days
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Strange white masses in pan cyan substrate [Re: A.k.a]
    #26705046 - 05/29/20 04:07 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

A.k.a said:
Interesting.

I’m just doing my first run with stone producers and was told that on plates the myc gets an orange color to it prior to stone formation.

Idk if that’s true or not but maybe in rare cases the pans produce stones. That could explain the color and also why the flushes aren’t as heavy if it’s using energy for that at the same time.


I know there’s that blue pearl pan and I’ve also had tons of weird stone like things on my plates. Haven’t found them in the sub so far.




A.k.a - that's the best theory I've heard.  If I were to guess, I'd say that's exactly it.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAsuraS
Cyantist


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 5,080
Loc: Right Here
Last seen: 21 minutes, 56 seconds
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Strange white masses in pan cyan substrate [Re: Blue Helix]
    #26705404 - 05/29/20 06:21 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Hey BH, for the record, I let my trays recover for 5 days and I still get overlay
from time to time. Maybe there's a sweet spot in the middle.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlue Helix
bold hand
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
Last seen: 10 months, 5 days
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Strange white masses in pan cyan substrate [Re: Asura]
    #26705452 - 05/29/20 06:47 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Asura said:
Hey BH, for the record, I let my trays recover for 5 days and I still get overlay
from time to time. Maybe there's a sweet spot in the middle.




Or maybe it still is a genetic trait.  These maybe were not as prone to overlay.  I also wonder if it's a condition thing.  Do you keep yours around 78F consistently?  Also, do you give them at least 24 hours after full colonization in the bag?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAsuraS
Cyantist


Registered: 08/01/11
Posts: 5,080
Loc: Right Here
Last seen: 21 minutes, 56 seconds
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Strange white masses in pan cyan substrate [Re: Blue Helix]
    #26705532 - 05/29/20 07:23 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I let mine colonize and recover in trays at room temp...about 72F.

Fruiting I like 77-78F but I can't use a temp controller in my
house due to old wiring. I have to manually adjust temps so
it fluctuates between 77-81F or so.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleHans Wermhat
Human


Registered: 06/10/19
Posts: 167
Re: Strange white masses in pan cyan substrate [Re: Asura]
    #26707751 - 05/30/20 06:58 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

I doubt it's contamination because it seems to be a strain-dependent phenomenon. That suggests it probably is a genetic issue or viral and not a contam.


--------------------
Thank you for taking the time to read this message. Have a wonderful day.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinevinnie boombotz
Reggaejunkiejew


Registered: 04/29/19
Posts: 493
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
Re: Strange white masses in pan cyan substrate [Re: Hans Wermhat]
    #26708131 - 05/30/20 11:24 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Perhaps too much nitrogen? Isn't there some  White mushroom that grows When that happens

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlue Helix
bold hand
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
Last seen: 10 months, 5 days
Trusted Cultivator
OG Cultivator
Re: Strange white masses in pan cyan substrate [Re: vinnie boombotz]
    #26708144 - 05/30/20 11:45 PM (3 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

vinnie boombotz said:
Perhaps too much nitrogen? Isn't there some  White mushroom that grows When that happens




I never vary the fruiting substrate.  I have the best mix I know, and it outperforms anything I've tried over the years.  And, no, it's not nitrogen-hot.  That's an amateur mistake where people swear by these overly-complex formulations which are always too rich.  I've seen substrates so complex that they look like some witch's brew.  Mine is almost entirely manure and vermiculite with a very small amount of wild birdseed.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   OlympusMyco.com Olympus Myco Bulk Substrate   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Question about Pan Cyan substrates Richard_D_James 1,411 4 05/20/01 03:01 PM
by Mr. Fryd
* Re: quetions on pan cyans :) mycofile 2,412 10 02/09/00 11:36 AM
by Anonymous
* Re: Pan Cyan?? Growing on straight straw Elektrolurch 5,263 6 05/29/00 07:46 AM
by Anonymous
* Pan Cyans giving me hell. TrippinRhino 2,107 5 10/09/01 12:49 PM
by Anonymous
* pan cyan pins HongKongChewy 1,699 5 01/23/02 10:01 PM
by Anonymous
* Pan Cyans on Popcorn? GratefulDread 4,593 19 07/06/03 10:07 PM
by Terrazza
* Pan Cyan honeyroasted 1,252 5 04/19/02 03:55 PM
by honeyroasted
* Pan. Cyans and a grow bag screaminsemen 1,633 5 08/19/03 11:22 PM
by screaminsemen

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: RogerRabbit, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta
5,335 topic views. 1 members, 3 guests and 4 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.015 seconds spending 0.003 seconds on 13 queries.