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OfflineVajraWarrior
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Can there be a truly selfless act?
    #26693095 - 05/24/20 04:48 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

And does it even matter?

I’m of the opinion that the motivation behind an action doesn’t really matter as much as the outcome. Like helping someone out whether totally selfless or with some other motivation the end result is the same. I don’t thunk there is some kind of purity test to decide how good an action is, though if it’s based on manipulation of another person to get them to do what you want I might digress.


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Soooo nothing's real and everything is real?

Exactly.

UGH! Then what was the point of any of this? -O.K KO

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Invisibledeadwk
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: VajraWarrior] * 2
    #26693132 - 05/24/20 05:05 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Maybe for some people but by and large I don't think so. Everything we do even if it helps others generally also helps us in someway (ie, feel good about yourself because you did XYZ). But I don't think it matters that much to be honest, it's just the facts of life

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OfflineVajraWarrior
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: deadwk] * 1
    #26693154 - 05/24/20 05:13 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I figured as much. Feeling good about doing good, while selfish in a sense, still gets the same result in the end. I think it just makes for a better story like the tales of heroes we have, but those are unrealistic standards to hope for and to look up to.

We are fallible creatures, pitiable in some regards, and all we can do is strive and hope it’s enough. Damn, now I’m waxing poetics.

Guess I’m just a pragmatist at heart.


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Soooo nothing's real and everything is real?

Exactly.

UGH! Then what was the point of any of this? -O.K KO

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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: VajraWarrior]
    #26693187 - 05/24/20 05:25 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

I think worrying about the purity of an action is in itself mental masturbation.


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OfflineGreenHorns
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: VajraWarrior] * 1
    #26693189 - 05/24/20 05:25 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Yeah dude it matters plenty. Therein we find altruism. A selfless act that takes something physically or emotionally from yourself knowing you get nothing in return but in the process lifting someone else up. There is self satisfaction but I'm not sure if that can be viewed as negative personal gain. It's how I live my life and it feels great. I guess the purity comes from the privacy we apply to these acts. They happen we believe we did good and it stays in our personal vault of memories. If the ones we did good to share the memory that's pure organic positive growth that spreads.


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Offlinewatermelon mon
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: GreenHorns] * 2
    #26693199 - 05/24/20 05:28 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)



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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: watermelon mon]
    #26693234 - 05/24/20 05:38 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

The only way you can be selfless is if you do something good without realizing that you have helped someone.

Other than that,  most people deliberately do nice things in order to feel good about theselves.  Which is not selfless.


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OfflineVajraWarrior
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: GreenHorns]
    #26693239 - 05/24/20 05:40 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

GreenHorns said:
Yeah dude it matters plenty. Therein we find altruism. A selfless act that takes something physically or emotionally from yourself knowing you get nothing in return but in the process lifting someone else up. There is self satisfaction but I'm not sure if that can be viewed as negative personal gain. It's how I live my life and it feels great. I guess the purity comes from the privacy we apply to these acts. They happen we believe we did good and it stays in our personal vault of memories. If the ones we did good to share the memory that's pure organic positive growth that spreads.




But then wouldn’t you get into the issue as to whether something is truly altruistic or not? Isn’t the very desire to be altruistic selfish at heart since it shows one doesn’t wish to be otherwise for whatever reason?

It’s things like that which make me consider that the purity test isn’t that important, the result is. Though I guess I would have to have a definition of good since many people tend to differ on what is “good” or “best”. I mean it’s not like there’s a cosmic rule book we can point to as to what is right in the ultimate sense, at least I don’t think there is one.

I know humanity has a spotty record when it comes to morality and intent seems to be the deciding factor when assigning guilt. It’s why we don’t think much of accidents since we didn’t really intend such an outcome. But I think that’s different than what I mean for “good” acts since the intent is to help but the motivation might change. If we want to stick with purity test for an action then that might take all day to resolve. Plus you would have to consider that tit for tat is a viable way to look at the world unless you want to get taken advantage of.

I think selfishness as to have some kind of role in such acts else we get taken for a ride or you end up becoming an enabler instead of a savior. I think it’s great to help but not enough that someone can’t do without you (barring some cases where they truly cannot) because at that point you end up crippling them.

Just a thought.


--------------------
Soooo nothing's real and everything is real?

Exactly.

UGH! Then what was the point of any of this? -O.K KO

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OfflineGreenHorns
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: Patlal]
    #26693244 - 05/24/20 05:43 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
The only way you can be selfless is if you do something good without realizing that you have helped someone.

Other than that,  most people deliberately do nice things in order to feel good about theselves.  Which is not selfless.




Super agreed. But is it so bad for one's own personal growth to thrive on being a positive force at large?


--------------------




As the spark of the dream ignites a flame of desire all we have is time and all to do is admire

Spawning to Bulk Substate TEK

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OfflineGreenHorns
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: VajraWarrior]
    #26693271 - 05/24/20 05:51 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

VajraWarrior said:
Quote:

GreenHorns said:
Yeah dude it matters plenty. Therein we find altruism. A selfless act that takes something physically or emotionally from yourself knowing you get nothing in return but in the process lifting someone else up. There is self satisfaction but I'm not sure if that can be viewed as negative personal gain. It's how I live my life and it feels great. I guess the purity comes from the privacy we apply to these acts. They happen we believe we did good and it stays in our personal vault of memories. If the ones we did good to share the memory that's pure organic positive growth that spreads.




But then wouldn’t you get into the issue as to whether something is truly altruistic or not? Isn’t the very desire to be altruistic selfish at heart since it shows one doesn’t wish to be otherwise for whatever reason?

It’s things like that which make me consider that the purity test isn’t that important, the result is. Though I guess I would have to have a definition of good since many people tend to differ on what is “good” or “best”. I mean it’s not like there’s a cosmic rule book we can point to as to what is right in the ultimate sense, at least I don’t think there is one.

I know humanity has a spotty record when it comes to morality and intent seems to be the deciding factor when assigning guilt. It’s why we don’t think much of accidents since we didn’t really intend such an outcome. But I think that’s different than what I mean for “good” acts since the intent is to help but the motivation might change. If we want to stick with purity test for an action then that might take all day to resolve. Plus you would have to consider that tit for tat is a viable way to look at the world unless you want to get taken advantage of.

I think selfishness as to have some kind of role in such acts else we get taken for a ride or you end up becoming an enabler instead of a savior. I think it’s great to help but not enough that someone can’t do without you (barring some cases where they truly cannot) because at that point you end up crippling them.

Just a thought.




I totally see where your coming from especially in regards to the spotty history that our species has. My personal philosophy on humanity is we all laugh the same and cry the same. No matter who what where or when. If you make someone happy or make them sad all humans will respond the same. If you engage in acts that make people smile or happy and despite whatever energy it took from you it's altruistic and inherently moral. If what your doing causes sadness or fear which is also uniform in humanity your missing the mark. That's my cosmic rule book at least. In short.


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As the spark of the dream ignites a flame of desire all we have is time and all to do is admire

Spawning to Bulk Substate TEK

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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: VajraWarrior]
    #26693273 - 05/24/20 05:52 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

A selfish person does not want to help another person, cause they are of service-to-self orientation. A person who is more service-to-others orientated will help another person out of good spirit. A side benefit of helping another person is feeling good about the act. But the main motivation behind the initial action is a want/need to help others (service-to-others).

Learned this from the book Pleiadian Prophecy 2020.


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"What you must understand is that your physical dimension affects everyone in the higher dimensions as well. All things are interconnected. All things are One. Therefore, if one dimension is broken or out of balance, then all other dimensions will experience repercussions." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020 The New Golden Age by James Carwin

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OnlineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26693286 - 05/24/20 05:56 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Yes and absolutely it matters. Sometimes you hurt yourself to help a stranger that's selflless. People fight and die for our country and the soldiers beside them. There's a lot of true selflessness it's just bring drowned in shit


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26693296 - 05/24/20 05:59 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Definitely 100%. Sacrificing ones life is the Greatest of Good Deeds. Luckily, not everyone has to make this Ultimate Sacrafice.

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OfflineVajraWarrior
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26693328 - 05/24/20 06:10 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:
Definitely 100%. Sacrificing ones life is the Greatest of Good Deeds. Luckily, not everyone has to make this Ultimate Sacrafice.




I disagree. Especially since I think it cheapens the value of life to some kind currency where you trade one thing for another.

Plus MANY people have died for less than good causes. Suicide bombers for one have no regard for their own lives and as such cause much devastation as a result. I think those so ready to give their own lives don't know the true value of life itself.

In terms of soldiers I think it's a form of brainwashing. Making giving up your life some sort of highest ideal means you can make them feel a little better about certain death and make the war machine look a little shinier with a coat of paint on it. But in the end I think it's just glorifying killing for some arbitrary piece of land and you'll be some noble meat sack who "died for his country".

Does hurting yourself in the course of the action somehow make it more noble than one that achieves the same result without doing so? If so then it isn't selfless at all I think. It's still seeking glorification through some process of mortification. It just appears to be selfless but it's probably just to "die a hero".

It's a sore subject I guess, the self-sacrifice trope. Those who do so don't have to deal with the aftermath or the consequences of their actions, which makes it appropriate for war and makes me wonder how selfless it is.

Like that saying goes: "you either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain."

Adding the "hurting yourself" moniker to an act seems to me like a selfish glorification of your deed. It's like competition almost.


--------------------
Soooo nothing's real and everything is real?

Exactly.

UGH! Then what was the point of any of this? -O.K KO

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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: VajraWarrior]
    #26693347 - 05/24/20 06:19 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

If you want to monetize the action, sure. But it doesnt have to be monitized. For example, if a mother cooks her son or daughter breakfast, is there money involved? The trade is that the mother is helping the son/daughter with a meal. There doesnt have to even be a "Thank you" from the son/daughter, however good manners means you should say Thank You for the Mother's (mostly) selfless act.

Theres always going to be some kind positive (or negative) feedback, thats just part of social interactions.

The only situation there isnt any positive feedback is anonymous donating to charities.

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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26693348 - 05/24/20 06:19 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

people definately dont all 'feel the same' or whatever. All humans dont respond the same.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #26693351 - 05/24/20 06:21 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Exactly. Some people actually get offended if you do something nice for them. For example, if someone does something for another person but the other person wanted to do it theirself. All sorts of reactions are possible with positive actions. Thats the power of Free Will and Human Personalities.

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OfflineGreenHorns
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #26693363 - 05/24/20 06:27 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
people definately dont all 'feel the same' or whatever. All humans dont respond the same.




My thought was polar extremes. I have not personally seen that any walk of human life doesn't laugh and cry in the same manner for the same reasons. Pure joy and pure sadness are understood irregardless. If you've got a different understanding I'm interested in hearing about it.


--------------------




As the spark of the dream ignites a flame of desire all we have is time and all to do is admire

Spawning to Bulk Substate TEK

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: GreenHorns] * 1
    #26693370 - 05/24/20 06:30 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

Were all working with the essentially the same hardware, and the software is more or less the same too.


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26693373 - 05/24/20 06:31 PM (4 years, 1 month ago)

An act can serve a dual purpose (self & other) and also be pure.


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

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