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VajraWarrior
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Can there be a truly selfless act?
#26693095 - 05/24/20 04:48 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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And does it even matter?
I’m of the opinion that the motivation behind an action doesn’t really matter as much as the outcome. Like helping someone out whether totally selfless or with some other motivation the end result is the same. I don’t thunk there is some kind of purity test to decide how good an action is, though if it’s based on manipulation of another person to get them to do what you want I might digress.
-------------------- Soooo nothing's real and everything is real? Exactly. UGH! Then what was the point of any of this? -O.K KO
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deadwk
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: VajraWarrior] 2
#26693132 - 05/24/20 05:05 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Maybe for some people but by and large I don't think so. Everything we do even if it helps others generally also helps us in someway (ie, feel good about yourself because you did XYZ). But I don't think it matters that much to be honest, it's just the facts of life
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VajraWarrior
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: deadwk] 1
#26693154 - 05/24/20 05:13 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I figured as much. Feeling good about doing good, while selfish in a sense, still gets the same result in the end. I think it just makes for a better story like the tales of heroes we have, but those are unrealistic standards to hope for and to look up to.
We are fallible creatures, pitiable in some regards, and all we can do is strive and hope it’s enough. Damn, now I’m waxing poetics.
Guess I’m just a pragmatist at heart.
-------------------- Soooo nothing's real and everything is real? Exactly. UGH! Then what was the point of any of this? -O.K KO
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specialpeopleclub


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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: VajraWarrior]
#26693187 - 05/24/20 05:25 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think worrying about the purity of an action is in itself mental masturbation.
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GreenHorns
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: VajraWarrior] 1
#26693189 - 05/24/20 05:25 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah dude it matters plenty. Therein we find altruism. A selfless act that takes something physically or emotionally from yourself knowing you get nothing in return but in the process lifting someone else up. There is self satisfaction but I'm not sure if that can be viewed as negative personal gain. It's how I live my life and it feels great. I guess the purity comes from the privacy we apply to these acts. They happen we believe we did good and it stays in our personal vault of memories. If the ones we did good to share the memory that's pure organic positive growth that spreads.
--------------------
  As the spark of the dream ignites a flame of desire all we have is time and all to do is admire Spawning to Bulk Substate TEK General Myco Info / FAQ / Terminology
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watermelon mon
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: GreenHorns] 2
#26693199 - 05/24/20 05:28 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Patlal
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The only way you can be selfless is if you do something good without realizing that you have helped someone.
Other than that, most people deliberately do nice things in order to feel good about theselves. Which is not selfless.
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VajraWarrior
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: GreenHorns]
#26693239 - 05/24/20 05:40 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
GreenHorns said: Yeah dude it matters plenty. Therein we find altruism. A selfless act that takes something physically or emotionally from yourself knowing you get nothing in return but in the process lifting someone else up. There is self satisfaction but I'm not sure if that can be viewed as negative personal gain. It's how I live my life and it feels great. I guess the purity comes from the privacy we apply to these acts. They happen we believe we did good and it stays in our personal vault of memories. If the ones we did good to share the memory that's pure organic positive growth that spreads.
But then wouldn’t you get into the issue as to whether something is truly altruistic or not? Isn’t the very desire to be altruistic selfish at heart since it shows one doesn’t wish to be otherwise for whatever reason?
It’s things like that which make me consider that the purity test isn’t that important, the result is. Though I guess I would have to have a definition of good since many people tend to differ on what is “good” or “best”. I mean it’s not like there’s a cosmic rule book we can point to as to what is right in the ultimate sense, at least I don’t think there is one.
I know humanity has a spotty record when it comes to morality and intent seems to be the deciding factor when assigning guilt. It’s why we don’t think much of accidents since we didn’t really intend such an outcome. But I think that’s different than what I mean for “good” acts since the intent is to help but the motivation might change. If we want to stick with purity test for an action then that might take all day to resolve. Plus you would have to consider that tit for tat is a viable way to look at the world unless you want to get taken advantage of.
I think selfishness as to have some kind of role in such acts else we get taken for a ride or you end up becoming an enabler instead of a savior. I think it’s great to help but not enough that someone can’t do without you (barring some cases where they truly cannot) because at that point you end up crippling them.
Just a thought.
-------------------- Soooo nothing's real and everything is real? Exactly. UGH! Then what was the point of any of this? -O.K KO
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GreenHorns
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: Patlal]
#26693244 - 05/24/20 05:43 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: The only way you can be selfless is if you do something good without realizing that you have helped someone.
Other than that, most people deliberately do nice things in order to feel good about theselves. Which is not selfless.
Super agreed. But is it so bad for one's own personal growth to thrive on being a positive force at large?
--------------------
  As the spark of the dream ignites a flame of desire all we have is time and all to do is admire Spawning to Bulk Substate TEK General Myco Info / FAQ / Terminology
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GreenHorns
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: VajraWarrior]
#26693271 - 05/24/20 05:51 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
VajraWarrior said:
Quote:
GreenHorns said: Yeah dude it matters plenty. Therein we find altruism. A selfless act that takes something physically or emotionally from yourself knowing you get nothing in return but in the process lifting someone else up. There is self satisfaction but I'm not sure if that can be viewed as negative personal gain. It's how I live my life and it feels great. I guess the purity comes from the privacy we apply to these acts. They happen we believe we did good and it stays in our personal vault of memories. If the ones we did good to share the memory that's pure organic positive growth that spreads.
But then wouldn’t you get into the issue as to whether something is truly altruistic or not? Isn’t the very desire to be altruistic selfish at heart since it shows one doesn’t wish to be otherwise for whatever reason?
It’s things like that which make me consider that the purity test isn’t that important, the result is. Though I guess I would have to have a definition of good since many people tend to differ on what is “good” or “best”. I mean it’s not like there’s a cosmic rule book we can point to as to what is right in the ultimate sense, at least I don’t think there is one.
I know humanity has a spotty record when it comes to morality and intent seems to be the deciding factor when assigning guilt. It’s why we don’t think much of accidents since we didn’t really intend such an outcome. But I think that’s different than what I mean for “good” acts since the intent is to help but the motivation might change. If we want to stick with purity test for an action then that might take all day to resolve. Plus you would have to consider that tit for tat is a viable way to look at the world unless you want to get taken advantage of.
I think selfishness as to have some kind of role in such acts else we get taken for a ride or you end up becoming an enabler instead of a savior. I think it’s great to help but not enough that someone can’t do without you (barring some cases where they truly cannot) because at that point you end up crippling them.
Just a thought.
I totally see where your coming from especially in regards to the spotty history that our species has. My personal philosophy on humanity is we all laugh the same and cry the same. No matter who what where or when. If you make someone happy or make them sad all humans will respond the same. If you engage in acts that make people smile or happy and despite whatever energy it took from you it's altruistic and inherently moral. If what your doing causes sadness or fear which is also uniform in humanity your missing the mark. That's my cosmic rule book at least. In short.
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  As the spark of the dream ignites a flame of desire all we have is time and all to do is admire Spawning to Bulk Substate TEK General Myco Info / FAQ / Terminology
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: VajraWarrior]
#26693273 - 05/24/20 05:52 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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A selfish person does not want to help another person, cause they are of service-to-self orientation. A person who is more service-to-others orientated will help another person out of good spirit. A side benefit of helping another person is feeling good about the act. But the main motivation behind the initial action is a want/need to help others (service-to-others).
Learned this from the book Pleiadian Prophecy 2020.
-------------------- "What you must understand is that your physical dimension affects everyone in the higher dimensions as well. All things are interconnected. All things are One. Therefore, if one dimension is broken or out of balance, then all other dimensions will experience repercussions." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020 The New Golden Age by James Carwin PROJECT BLUE BOOK ANALYSIS! (312 pages!) | Psychedelics & UFOs | Ready to Contact UFOs? | The Source on Mushrooms | Trippy Gematrix | Dj TeknoLogical | Fentanyl Test Kits R.I.P. Big Worm || The Start of the Ascension Process was 2020. Welcome to the Next Great Era of Earth 🌎🌍🌏
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Seriously_trippin
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] 1
#26693286 - 05/24/20 05:56 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yes and absolutely it matters. Sometimes you hurt yourself to help a stranger that's selflless. People fight and die for our country and the soldiers beside them. There's a lot of true selflessness it's just bring drowned in shit
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LogicaL Chaos
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Definitely 100%. Sacrificing ones life is the Greatest of Good Deeds. Luckily, not everyone has to make this Ultimate Sacrafice.
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VajraWarrior
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
#26693328 - 05/24/20 06:10 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: Definitely 100%. Sacrificing ones life is the Greatest of Good Deeds. Luckily, not everyone has to make this Ultimate Sacrafice.
I disagree. Especially since I think it cheapens the value of life to some kind currency where you trade one thing for another.
Plus MANY people have died for less than good causes. Suicide bombers for one have no regard for their own lives and as such cause much devastation as a result. I think those so ready to give their own lives don't know the true value of life itself.
In terms of soldiers I think it's a form of brainwashing. Making giving up your life some sort of highest ideal means you can make them feel a little better about certain death and make the war machine look a little shinier with a coat of paint on it. But in the end I think it's just glorifying killing for some arbitrary piece of land and you'll be some noble meat sack who "died for his country".
Does hurting yourself in the course of the action somehow make it more noble than one that achieves the same result without doing so? If so then it isn't selfless at all I think. It's still seeking glorification through some process of mortification. It just appears to be selfless but it's probably just to "die a hero".
It's a sore subject I guess, the self-sacrifice trope. Those who do so don't have to deal with the aftermath or the consequences of their actions, which makes it appropriate for war and makes me wonder how selfless it is.
Like that saying goes: "you either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain."
Adding the "hurting yourself" moniker to an act seems to me like a selfish glorification of your deed. It's like competition almost.
-------------------- Soooo nothing's real and everything is real? Exactly. UGH! Then what was the point of any of this? -O.K KO
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: VajraWarrior]
#26693347 - 05/24/20 06:19 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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If you want to monetize the action, sure. But it doesnt have to be monitized. For example, if a mother cooks her son or daughter breakfast, is there money involved? The trade is that the mother is helping the son/daughter with a meal. There doesnt have to even be a "Thank you" from the son/daughter, however good manners means you should say Thank You for the Mother's (mostly) selfless act.
Theres always going to be some kind positive (or negative) feedback, thats just part of social interactions.
The only situation there isnt any positive feedback is anonymous donating to charities.
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specialpeopleclub


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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] 1
#26693348 - 05/24/20 06:19 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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people definately dont all 'feel the same' or whatever. All humans dont respond the same.
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LogicaL Chaos
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Exactly. Some people actually get offended if you do something nice for them. For example, if someone does something for another person but the other person wanted to do it theirself. All sorts of reactions are possible with positive actions. Thats the power of Free Will and Human Personalities.
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GreenHorns
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Quote:
specialpeopleclub said: people definately dont all 'feel the same' or whatever. All humans dont respond the same.
My thought was polar extremes. I have not personally seen that any walk of human life doesn't laugh and cry in the same manner for the same reasons. Pure joy and pure sadness are understood irregardless. If you've got a different understanding I'm interested in hearing about it.
--------------------
  As the spark of the dream ignites a flame of desire all we have is time and all to do is admire Spawning to Bulk Substate TEK General Myco Info / FAQ / Terminology
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The Blind Ass
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: GreenHorns] 1
#26693370 - 05/24/20 06:30 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Were all working with the essentially the same hardware, and the software is more or less the same too.
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The Blind Ass
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26693373 - 05/24/20 06:31 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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An act can serve a dual purpose (self & other) and also be pure.
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specialpeopleclub


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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: GreenHorns]
#26693390 - 05/24/20 06:41 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Were all working with the essentially the same hardware, and the software is more or less the same too.
Quote:
GreenHorns said:
Quote:
specialpeopleclub said: people definately dont all 'feel the same' or whatever. All humans dont respond the same.
My thought was polar extremes. I have not personally seen that any walk of human life doesn't laugh and cry in the same manner for the same reasons. Pure joy and pure sadness are understood irregardless. If you've got a different understanding I'm interested in hearing about it.
We have brains. They dont all work the same. There is a range and outliers/
People dont see things the same though. What causes hqppiness in one culture may not in another. People find differant ideas and things pleasing.
I wouldnt even say feelings at their farthest points are the same between people. Why would someone of a different ethnicity raised in a differant culture be similar? Someone that hasnt seen technology or has grown up with a completely differant set of values? Your way of thinking is presumptuous to me.
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VajraWarrior
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
#26693394 - 05/24/20 06:43 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: Exactly. Some people actually get offended if you do something nice for them. For example, if someone does something for another person but the other person wanted to do it theirself. All sorts of reactions are possible with positive actions. Thats the power of Free Will and Human Personalities.
I question free will sometimes. But that’s another matter.
I guess what I mean is that the purity of the action isn’t important and that attempting to assign a value to such acts is selfish, unless of course such actions are done in order to have someone in debt to you or to manipulate them into something unsavory.
-------------------- Soooo nothing's real and everything is real? Exactly. UGH! Then what was the point of any of this? -O.K KO
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VajraWarrior
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Quote:
specialpeopleclub said:
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Were all working with the essentially the same hardware, and the software is more or less the same too.
Quote:
GreenHorns said:
Quote:
specialpeopleclub said: people definately dont all 'feel the same' or whatever. All humans dont respond the same.
My thought was polar extremes. I have not personally seen that any walk of human life doesn't laugh and cry in the same manner for the same reasons. Pure joy and pure sadness are understood irregardless. If you've got a different understanding I'm interested in hearing about it.
We have brains. They dont all work the same. There is a range and outliers/
People dont see things the same though. What causes hqppiness in one culture may not in another. People find differant ideas and things pleasing.
I wouldnt even say feelings at their farthest points are the same between people. Why would someone of a different ethnicity raised in a differant culture be similar? Someone that hasnt seen technology or has grown up with a completely differant set of values? Your way of thinking is presumptuous to me.
True. I am operating on what society and most people define as good and moral.
But the best lessons I got about it oddly enough came from anime shows I watched. Moral ambiguity was a big then and the characters seemed to accept that there isn’t always a hard and fast rule to things in life and that what some consider good is bad to others. Ultimately all you can really do is fight for what you believe in because in the end that’s all we really have to hold on to.
I understand that some cultures demonize homosexuality for reasons I don’t understand and that ultimately what keeps them in check is other groups with the power to enforce the contrary. But I am under no illusion that my words alone could sway a person who truly wants to put me to death. If that were so then I wouldn’t hesitate to subdue them, and heaven forbid something else.
Heh, I started asking about if truly selfless acts exist and now I’m wondering if there are hard “good and bad” to build the justification for such acts. After all war is full of selfless acts that slaughter many and some religions too.
-------------------- Soooo nothing's real and everything is real? Exactly. UGH! Then what was the point of any of this? -O.K KO
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The Blind Ass
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Quote:
specialpeopleclub said:
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Were all working with the essentially the same hardware, and the software is more or less the same too.
Quote:
GreenHorns said:
Quote:
specialpeopleclub said: people definately dont all 'feel the same' or whatever. All humans dont respond the same.
My thought was polar extremes. I have not personally seen that any walk of human life doesn't laugh and cry in the same manner for the same reasons. Pure joy and pure sadness are understood irregardless. If you've got a different understanding I'm interested in hearing about it.
We have brains. They dont all work the same. There is a range and outliers/
People dont see things the same though. What causes hqppiness in one culture may not in another. People find differant ideas and things pleasing.
I wouldnt even say feelings at their farthest points are the same between people. Why would someone of a different ethnicity raised in a differant culture be similar? Someone that hasnt seen technology or has grown up with a completely differant set of values? Your way of thinking is presumptuous to me.
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VajraWarrior
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26693465 - 05/24/20 07:06 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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https://www.lionsroar.com/forum-sex-lies-and-buddhism/
An interesting take on the subject from a Buddhist perspective, with this stating that those who are Enlightened don't do acts because they are right or wrong but because they are enlightened and as such behave in such a manner. Seems like a chicken or egg kind of thing to me and it does raise a bunch of other questions.
-------------------- Soooo nothing's real and everything is real? Exactly. UGH! Then what was the point of any of this? -O.K KO
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specialpeopleclub


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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26693472 - 05/24/20 07:08 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Homosexuality is a common example. In my head i was thinking of the Easter Islanders that would have a race to get this egg to decide who the leader is. The leader would live in isolation . Or in new guinnia where the children are encouraged to suck cock. Or the camanche chopping off peoples limbs then burning them alive.
It depends on the anime. Its just entertainment though. Im kind of sick of all the shows that want to make me empathize with murderers.
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VajraWarrior
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Quote:
specialpeopleclub said: Homosexuality is a common example. In my head i was thinking of the Easter Islanders that would have a race to get this egg to decide who the leader is. The leader would live in isolation . Or in new guinnia where the children are encouraged to suck cock. Or the camanche chopping off peoples limbs then burning them alive.
It depends on the anime. Its just entertainment though. Im kind of sick of all the shows that want to make me empathize with murderers.
It wasn’t that kind of show. Killing was something to be avoided if possible and regrettable if it came to it. But the reality they showed is that moral judgments rest on the power to enforce them. Black Lagoon I thought was good in that in it showed how mere idealism isn’t enough without strength to back it.
You can decry murder all you want but can you stop someone from doing it with mere words? Unlikely . It’s part of why I think we live in a privileged world where we have the luxury of debating such things because power keeps humans stable and civil. But civilization is just a thin veneer ready to snap at the slightest provocation.
Words without actions are just dreams, that’s how I view morality. At the end of the day it comes down to “what are you gonna do about it”?
-------------------- Soooo nothing's real and everything is real? Exactly. UGH! Then what was the point of any of this? -O.K KO
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The Blind Ass
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Quote:
specialpeopleclub said:
It depends on the anime. Its just entertainment though. Im kind of sick of all the shows that want to make me empathize with murderers.
What?
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26693554 - 05/24/20 07:44 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Were all working with the essentially the same hardware, and the software is more or less the same too.
Ever heard the conspiracy of MarkBot?
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The Blind Ass
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
#26693556 - 05/24/20 07:44 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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...what is it?
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Edited by The Blind Ass (05/24/20 07:46 PM)
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LogicaL Chaos
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26693559 - 05/24/20 07:46 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Its the conspiracy theory that Mark Zuckerberg is a Robot as he acted like a robot in this interview:
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The Blind Ass
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] 1
#26693575 - 05/24/20 07:54 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Looks to me like he’s trying to compose himself a certain way knowing he’s got the eyes of the world on him, knowing it is being recorded for posterity’s sake and whatnot. He does come off pretty stiff though.. that plus the fact he’s associated with tech, software, PCs (in general) etc, I can see why that conspiracy theory got started!
Unless he’s an android like the ones from Star Trek: Picard, he would’ve been outed by medical exams etc etc.
Still, The added Mechanical Robotic sound effects are a nice touch. 
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26693579 - 05/24/20 07:55 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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yeah, its pretty silly. Also some interesting Gematria with "MarkBot" as well.
Anyway, back on topic. How do we measure a truly selfless act? What is the criteria? Is it even possible to have a 100% selfless act?
-------------------- "What you must understand is that your physical dimension affects everyone in the higher dimensions as well. All things are interconnected. All things are One. Therefore, if one dimension is broken or out of balance, then all other dimensions will experience repercussions." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020 The New Golden Age by James Carwin PROJECT BLUE BOOK ANALYSIS! (312 pages!) | Psychedelics & UFOs | Ready to Contact UFOs? | The Source on Mushrooms | Trippy Gematrix | Dj TeknoLogical | Fentanyl Test Kits R.I.P. Big Worm || The Start of the Ascension Process was 2020. Welcome to the Next Great Era of Earth 🌎🌍🌏
  Oregon Eclipse Festival 2017 :: Aug 19th - 21st :: Pure Paradise   Very Effective LSA Extraction Tek | 💧 Advanced Cold Water LSA Extraction Method 💧 |  Mescajuana - Mescaline with Marijuana | DMT Dab Bongs | UFO Technology! Shpongle
     
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pirate-blues


Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 13,655
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] 1
#26693668 - 05/24/20 08:28 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but there was a man that has mathematically proved(proven?) that altruism is inherently selfish.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/mar/13/george-davis-altruism-selfish-play-calculating-kindness
I say embrace it. How cool is it to be apart of a species that gets it's kicks out of being nice, and chill, and helping people. I know that's not true for everyone. But I think most people at heart try to be good, and want to think of themselves as good. And that's something that I'm okay with.
I'd rather have people posting videos of themselves giving people free food and doing good deeds for clout(as much as it makes me roll my eyes), rather than people being mean and terrible.
Edited by pirate-blues (05/24/20 09:00 PM)
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: pirate-blues] 1
#26693674 - 05/24/20 08:30 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thats it!
Mathematically proven? 
I personally think that one aspect of Life is to have fun. Have fun but dont bring people down to have fun. Have a good time and make it feel like a good time for other people too. Thats kinda my Philosophy about it.
-------------------- "What you must understand is that your physical dimension affects everyone in the higher dimensions as well. All things are interconnected. All things are One. Therefore, if one dimension is broken or out of balance, then all other dimensions will experience repercussions." - Pleiadian Prophecy 2020 The New Golden Age by James Carwin PROJECT BLUE BOOK ANALYSIS! (312 pages!) | Psychedelics & UFOs | Ready to Contact UFOs? | The Source on Mushrooms | Trippy Gematrix | Dj TeknoLogical | Fentanyl Test Kits R.I.P. Big Worm || The Start of the Ascension Process was 2020. Welcome to the Next Great Era of Earth 🌎🌍🌏
  Oregon Eclipse Festival 2017 :: Aug 19th - 21st :: Pure Paradise   Very Effective LSA Extraction Tek | 💧 Advanced Cold Water LSA Extraction Method 💧 |  Mescajuana - Mescaline with Marijuana | DMT Dab Bongs | UFO Technology! Shpongle
     
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VajraWarrior
Stranger


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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] 1
#26693696 - 05/24/20 08:38 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: Thats it!
Mathematically proven? 
I personally think that one aspect of Life is to have fun. Have fun but dont bring people down to have fun. Have a good time and make it feel like a good time for other people too. Thats kinda my Philosophy about it.
I used to think that a while ago.
But it became difficult to resolve that drive with what cost my fun comes. I am truly fortunate to live in a stable environment with little strife, but I know it comes at the cost and on the backs of many many others.
I think that is a way to look at life but not an aspect of it per se, since such an attitude seems to imply a sort of privilege.
-------------------- Soooo nothing's real and everything is real? Exactly. UGH! Then what was the point of any of this? -O.K KO
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: VajraWarrior]
#26693704 - 05/24/20 08:40 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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So how does one remedy the privilege's? Do you want to lower your level so that its more fair for everyone "below" you?
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: LogicaL Chaos] 1
#26693737 - 05/24/20 08:54 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Partly by keeping an appropriate perspective. Survival is primary, after that is more or less set - you can experiment all you want and enjoy the garden, so to speak.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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LogicaL Chaos
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs




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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26693740 - 05/24/20 08:57 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Its always important to self-reflect on one's own behaviour. It gives you a better perspective on life and how to relate to people. Also it prevents becoming a hypocritic.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
#26693750 - 05/24/20 09:02 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Everything we have today mostly is because of the collective efforts of every individuals life going all the way back in time. Not to mention the human component of that equation is a drop in the bucket compared to the whole of what nature has brought forth over time. I can’t begin to imagine the type of grace & dread that our ancestors had to live with. Living and dying in it. With enough time, Our predecessors in essence are the food, food, drink, and clothing that nourishes & protects us throughout the day(s). How then can one not be but humbly grateful for their possessions & those who came before us ?
I can have my life relatively “set” in my little bubble, but if I think that is reflective of everyone’s circumstances, I’m deluded.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (05/24/20 09:10 PM)
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VajraWarrior
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26693879 - 05/24/20 10:20 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm a bit on the fence about the grateful aspect. Sounds like more of a hindsight thing since the ones who can make it say they are while the ones who languish because of the world we built wish to end it all.
Learning about how much of what we take for comfort and how many others pay the price for it leaves a bad taste in my mouth and leaves me wondering as to whether life is truly good in the end. In sense our society is vampiric and I'm not sure if it's possible to make one that isn't in the end. Human history even from Hunter Gatherers has been that way.
-------------------- Soooo nothing's real and everything is real? Exactly. UGH! Then what was the point of any of this? -O.K KO
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: VajraWarrior]
#26693924 - 05/24/20 10:59 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
VajraWarrior said: I'm a bit on the fence about the grateful aspect. Sounds like more of a hindsight thing since the ones who can make it say they are while the ones who languish because of the world we built wish to end it all. .
Not in my experience. Not even close. I’ve met many of people in either position - and many of both are grateful. Maybe even skewed in favor of those who don’t have as much material comfort & security like the so many do.
Even in the US I’ve known many in either position who are grateful and know what they have worked for is circumstantial and subject to change, and I’ve only lived in 3 states, 1 prefecture in Japan, & 2 states in Mexico. Maybe that’s just the type of people I ran into & forge relationships with?
Who knows, but I’ve meet people who lack deep essence & perspective, living without a sense of humility or gratitude, and they are all lost & miserable - and their confusion and misery is only interrupted by the next distraction from having to come to terms with things as they are.
Idk what your on the fence about or how you got there, but I assure you that the current iteration of who you are will continue changing.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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VajraWarrior
Stranger


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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26693938 - 05/24/20 11:10 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said:
Quote:
VajraWarrior said: I'm a bit on the fence about the grateful aspect. Sounds like more of a hindsight thing since the ones who can make it say they are while the ones who languish because of the world we built wish to end it all. .
Not in my experience. Not even close. I’ve met many of people in either position - and many of both are grateful. Maybe even skewed in favor of those who don’t have as much material comfort & security like the so many do.
Even in the US I’ve known many in either position who are grateful and know what they have worked for is circumstantial and subject to change, and I’ve only lived in 3 states.
Even more true from my experience living in Japan & Mexico. Maybe that’s just the type of people I ran into & forge relationships with?
Who knows, but I’ve meet people who lack deep essence & perspective, living without a sense of humility or gratitude, and they are all lost & miserable - and their confusion and misery is only interrupted by the next distraction from having to come to terms with things as they are.
I still think it sounds like privilege to me.
Many people suffer greatly each day and for some there is no recourse. Yet they strive onward for what reason? I cannot say. I think gratitude sounds more like confirmation bias than an accurate view of the world and life at large. My theory is that it's our survival instinct in a clever disguise tricking us into living when there isn't a need to.
I think the people you meet don't grasp how their lives come at the expense of others or what it's built on, I would be so bold as to argue 98% of people don't know. That's what troubles me the most, that my life is built on people's backs. I can be carefree while most toil and don't know rest.
-------------------- Soooo nothing's real and everything is real? Exactly. UGH! Then what was the point of any of this? -O.K KO
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Posts: 26,657
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: VajraWarrior]
#26693955 - 05/24/20 11:24 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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If you know the people I know, you would blush in embarrassment for saying what you are saying.
You sound out of touch, or maybe your just expressing only one aspect of something and it’s coming out strangely over the internet, idk. Maybe something is getting lost in “internet translation”. But your view seems myopic. Maybe a more reflective view is combing both of ours into one, to be more accurate to the whole of things.
I think you don’t realize how deeply some people can live their lives while knowing full well what your expressing.
Likely it’s just you projecting how you or those you know of, or are aware of, live their lives. I’m probably doing the same , since I can only speak to my experience.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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VajraWarrior
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26693987 - 05/24/20 11:49 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: If you know the people I know, you would blush in embarrassment for saying what you are saying.
You sound out of touch, or maybe your just expressing only one aspect of something and it’s coming out strangely over the internet, idk. Maybe something is getting lost in “internet translation”. But your view seems myopic. Maybe a more reflective view is combing both of ours into one, to be more accurate to the whole of things.
I think you don’t realize how deeply some people can live their lives while knowing full well what your expressing.
Likely it’s just you projecting how you or those you know of, or are aware of, live their lives. I’m probably doing the same , since I can only speak to my experience.
In my experience I've seen the people you talk about but they don't "see". They think they do, until you point a few things out. Or they opt for a rosy view of things. My parents are such folks, they still believe in the "american dream". My guess is that such folks haven't taken sociology courses otherwise they would see the true price their lives cost, it's largely why I don't eat chocolate anymore. That's why I say that people think they know when they don't, I didn't and I wish I hadn't really.
This is reflective, to recognize that for one thing to live comes at the expense of something else. It's the nature of life in a sense, a circle. Does it need to happen or continue? I don't think that's for anyone to say really but it doesn't change the facts. So far our society isn't built for everyone to be winners,despite whatever saccharine commercial or public service announcement wants to insist is otherwise.
It's quite hard to avoid becoming cynical when one looks at the world we have today. Destruction and exploitation are the norm while joy and friendship punctuate it only briefly and sparsely. To me the people you met are myopic, that's what I find most positive people to be. Gratitude seems more like a flimsy shield to hide behind, and depending on your point of view...insanity.
-------------------- Soooo nothing's real and everything is real? Exactly. UGH! Then what was the point of any of this? -O.K KO
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ShroomerInTheRye
Clit Commander



Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 13,036
Loc: Themyscira
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: VajraWarrior]
#26694181 - 05/25/20 04:29 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
VajraWarrior said: Gratitude seems more like a flimsy shield to hide behind, and depending on your point of view...insanity.
I dunno about that.
I have a friend who posts his dinners on FB. They're usually nothing fancy, but he makes sure to post about his new butter tubs when he buys new butter. He's grateful for something as stupid as a tub of butter. Why? He knows what its like to have not one single thing or penny to your name. That gratitude comes from the bottom of his heart. Over stupid butter.
Having been in a place myself where I've had NOTHING, I am grateful for the small things that other people might view as stupid shit. The food in the fridge, the roof over my head, the car I drive, etc. In turn, that feeling of having nothing has allowed me to help others now that I'm in a better spot. I remember the bitter coldness of having nothing and nobody to turn to for help. I remember feeling slapped in the face every time someone told me I wasn't trying hard enough. Nobody should have to feel the way I did.
If I see you struggling, I won't let you struggle alone. Not because I get some orgasmic feeling of helping someone, but because I understand how it feels to have nothing and get kicked in the mouth repeatedly.
That part of my life could have embittered me. Instead, I allowed it to empower me. If you feel truly grateful in your soul, altruism is not a chore or something to be thought so heavily about...it's just something you do because it's the right goddamn thing.
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<-- Clicky Clicky
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: VajraWarrior] 1
#26694243 - 05/25/20 05:44 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
VajraWarrior said:
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: If you know the people I know, you would blush in embarrassment for saying what you are saying.
You sound out of touch, or maybe your just expressing only one aspect of something and it’s coming out strangely over the internet, idk. Maybe something is getting lost in “internet translation”. But your view seems myopic. Maybe a more reflective view is combing both of ours into one, to be more accurate to the whole of things.
I think you don’t realize how deeply some people can live their lives while knowing full well what your expressing.
Likely it’s just you projecting how you or those you know of, or are aware of, live their lives. I’m probably doing the same , since I can only speak to my experience.
In my experience I've seen the people you talk about but they don't "see". They think they do, until you point a few things out. Or they opt for a rosy view of things. My parents are such folks, they still believe in the "american dream". My guess is that such folks haven't taken sociology courses otherwise they would see the true price their lives cost, it's largely why I don't eat chocolate anymore. That's why I say that people think they know when they don't, I didn't and I wish I hadn't really.
This is reflective, to recognize that for one thing to live comes at the expense of something else. It's the nature of life in a sense, a circle. Does it need to happen or continue? I don't think that's for anyone to say really but it doesn't change the facts. So far our society isn't built for everyone to be winners,despite whatever saccharine commercial or public service announcement wants to insist is otherwise.
It's quite hard to avoid becoming cynical when one looks at the world we have today. Destruction and exploitation are the norm while joy and friendship punctuate it only briefly and sparsely. To me the people you met are myopic, that's what I find most positive people to be. Gratitude seems more like a flimsy shield to hide behind, and depending on your point of view...insanity.
Idk your life situation or age or anything about you, but you have obviously yet to meet the kind of people I talk about. That’s okay too, I promise you they exist, but they most I speak of aren’t on the internet stroking their own ego like you and I. Maybe you recognize that deep down. Maybe you don’t.
Also, To presume that individuals you don’t know anything about are somehow deluding themselves because, as you claim they don’t “see”, is beyond foolish. The truth is, such a type of person is so foreign to you that your unable to fathom it, and so resort to delusions about them to explain such a thing away as false. Maybe you were jaded after being fooled yourself by people you thought were more wholesome, moral, educated, more aware, and more good than they turned out to be - maybe not, but if so, I’m sorry you got hurt, but that doesn’t mean there’s no such thing.
To believe so just because you don’t know of it, is delusive & hubristic.
What’s worse is that I know them very well. They don’t decorate their lives with their ego, many have come from nothing and later, became successful in life - later still they opted for a more wholesome way of life, one most people cannot even conceive of, not to mention live - but many talk like they do know- such as yourself. That is why I can recognize your delusive lies - your selling dog meat masquerading as filet mignon. And I’m not sure you even fully realize it. University can be great, but that is not even close to the same thing as learning how to live appropriately in this world as it is, & embodying ones own understanding and expressing it through ones life. No ones perfect, but somewhere along the way you gave up the real thing for a substitute. I hope you realize that people can tell, even if most don’t point it out to you.
You can’t learn that in school. Maybe one day you will discover more, but not if you believe you already know better. Intellectual understanding is a tiny part of comprehending truth, just apart. It’s easy to be deluded into believing you know something just because you read about it - all without living it truly. Such a tiny mind will never be able to see the full scope & depths of the nature of things, as you so carelessly imply you do.
You have yet to come to some “final” understanding of life that is truly reflective of reality as it fully & really is. No need to pretend you do. I certainly don’t, but at the same time I can tacitly recognize that your full of it, Like a pretender, the unbalanced testimony & views you express of the world & those you know absolutely nothing about is indicative of someone dreaming that they are “woke” - but really just barely awake at the wheel.
Even if this falls on deaf ears It will not matter, as I have spoken only truly of those worthy of my deep respect & gratitude in this world, and that is enough. They will live beyond your wildest dreams, and I have lived parts of my deeply flawed human life with them to know it true beyond all tested doubt.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (05/25/20 05:56 AM)
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lavod
Seal Whisperer


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Posts: 5,440
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26694364 - 05/25/20 07:21 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Suicide is simultaneously the most selfish and most selfless act, the contradiction reified to truth by dissolution into the absolute. 0≠2 becomes 0=2 by removal ov the slanted I from its egoic notion ov centralized equality. It hurts those surrounding one, yes, but the parallax view(yes i watched that movie last night ) is that one gives up all hir earthly attributes held dear in self annihilation. This should'nt encourage suicide ov course, as it cannot separate from its antithesis to altruism, but one can also not deny its selfless nobility from another perspective. Please do'nt kill yourselves and just respect the truth in the (anti)matter!
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VajraWarrior
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: lavod]
#26694532 - 05/25/20 09:13 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
lavod said: Suicide is simultaneously the most selfish and most selfless act, the contradiction reified to truth by dissolution into the absolute. 0≠2 becomes 0=2 by removal ov the slanted I from its egoic notion ov centralized equality. It hurts those surrounding one, yes, but the parallax view(yes i watched that movie last night ) is that one gives up all hir earthly attributes held dear in self annihilation. This should'nt encourage suicide ov course, as it cannot separate from its antithesis to altruism, but one can also not deny its selfless nobility from another perspective. Please do'nt kill yourselves and just respect the truth in the (anti)matter!
Well it’s none of those things, it’s just an act. It’s not selfless nobility or a heartless act. But I definitely know that 0 does not equal 2, though from what I gather suicide is pretty egotistical according to most spiritualities. It’s not “giving up earthly attributes” in the way you put it, rather it’s for those who can’t cope anymore.
As for TBA, it’s not egotistical to suggest you know such things about people because from what I gather college is a privilege not many can partake in and when they do they don’t really take courses that broaden their view but rather help them get a job. So when you tell them about all the bad things in the world then they call you crazy or pessimistic no matter what you show them. You say that book learning doesn’t teach you how to survive in the world but I think it teaches you to ask why you should knowing what has happened in the world. I learned more in my sociology courses than I ever did with people, if anything it showed me how little people know or understand. I’m not a pretender, merely one who dares to ask that which people don’t want to hear. I’m willing to bet that if I met the people you spoke of I would shatter them or reveal their hypocrisy. Their lives aren’t really proof of anything other than they made it, but there are exponentially many more who did not and people fail to understand that.
Rye I get that you made it but that is still the privilege of survival. It sounds like the rags to riches story we hear in society and think anyone can because of it, but I know of the thousands more who reached for the very same and didn’t make it or perished in the attempt. YOU made it, but there are many who didn’t so I find your gratitude biased in some regard. Did the millions of others who came from nothing and didn’t make it not want it enough? Were they less deserving than the others who made it? Or was it just random chance in the end?
That’s why I think gratitude is for the privileged and not a valid reflection of life. I think it clouds perspective by omitting some aspects of reality, which is why I don’t practice it. I find it insulting to those who have nothing not because they don’t strive but because they simply cannot rise above due to circumstances beyond their control. Our society was not made to help everyone who needs it, just those who can afford it.
I am aware of the twist of fate that led me to be born in stability, enough food, leisure, all of that, because the die could have rolled the far more likely result of none of that. Poverty, abuse, violence, sickness, it truly is luck to not end up like that.
But we can’t look at those who made it as an example of what life actually is because they aren’t. They are the exception, not the rule. I wonder how grateful people wouldn’t actually be had the not made it out of their holes or could not despite everything. It sounds like my mother who came to this country with nothing and not knowing the language, but I shut down her gratitude speeches by reminding here of the many others who didn’t make it and not because they didn’t want it enough.
-------------------- Soooo nothing's real and everything is real? Exactly. UGH! Then what was the point of any of this? -O.K KO
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ShroomerInTheRye
Clit Commander



Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 13,036
Loc: Themyscira
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: VajraWarrior]
#26694562 - 05/25/20 09:38 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
VajraWarrior said: YOU made it, but there are many who didn’t so I find your gratitude biased in some regard.
That doesn't even make any sense. I made it and help others without a second thought, and that makes me biased.
Edit - Bye 336.
--------------------
<-- Clicky Clicky
Edited by ShroomerInTheRye (05/25/20 09:56 AM)
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MightyWhite

Registered: 08/27/08
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I'll be honest here, the first time I seen OP's name, I thought it said VaginaWarrior. I had to take a second look.
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




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Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: MightyWhite] 1
#26694644 - 05/25/20 10:17 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
MightyWhite said: I'll be honest here, the first time I seen OP's name, I thought it said VaginaWarrior. I had to take a second look.
the Vajra in Buddhist ritual is the phallic instrument, so close but kind of inverted
the vagina in the rituals is the Bell
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MightyWhite

Registered: 08/27/08
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Re: Can there be a truly selfless act? [Re: Tantrika]
#26694649 - 05/25/20 10:20 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Shit, thanks for the heads up
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