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OfflineAgarStudent
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Is the bucket pasturization tek unreliable?
    #26691621 - 05/24/20 02:11 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I am just using coir and vermiculite, using hot to warm water and letting it cool, but my spawn has been stalling in the mono.  Do you think bad pasturization is the culprit??


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Is the bucket pasturization tek unreliable? [Re: AgarStudent] * 1
    #26691636 - 05/24/20 02:25 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

AgarStudent said:
I am just using coir and vermiculite, using hot to warm water and letting it cool, but my spawn has been stalling in the mono.  Do you think bad pasturization is the culprit??




No. We aren't actually pasteurizing the coir in this way, it might even be partially sterilizing it. Coir is one of the few subs that doesn't need to be pasteurized or sterilized, it just benefits from heat treatment. It helps make it easier for the myc to break it down. For that reason I suggest using boiling water (or at least very very hot) to prep it. If any additives (past verm, gypsum) are added, it typically needs proper pasteurization if it's going to be inoculated/colonized in open air.

If your subs are stalling, it's most likely your spawn. And if it's not showing mold, bacteria is likely to blame. 

What are you inoculating your grains with? If you are using a clean culture on agar (transfered *at least* once from germination, then it could be getting in during your inoculation or G2G. If you aren't using agar, there's your problem.


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OfflineAgarStudent
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Re: Is the bucket pasturization tek unreliable? [Re: mushpunx]
    #26691696 - 05/24/20 03:24 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah I am doing g-g transfers mostly.  It’s been pretty reliable in the past, but so far I am just getting this:



It has both verm and guano in it as well, so do you recommend proper pasturization?


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Edited by AgarStudent (05/24/20 03:27 AM)


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Invisiblenix21
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Re: Is the bucket pasturization tek unreliable? [Re: AgarStudent]
    #26691767 - 05/24/20 04:21 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I tried both with CV, bucket tek in cooler and proper pasturization.. both metodes gave me great results.. if you are useing bucket tek dont use warm to hot water, use boiled water and after you pour over coir put lid on and come back 2h later to mix it up.
Did you change brand of coir? some of them (gardening ones i think) can have live trich inside. Your spawn is alright for sure?

I didnt see you said u added guano in sub, whats that shit lol i think you need proper pasturization with that in it.. idk why u add it


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Edited by nix21 (05/24/20 04:25 AM)


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Is the bucket pasturization tek unreliable? [Re: AgarStudent]
    #26691769 - 05/24/20 04:23 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

If you're using poo you need to pasteurize.  If you have coir just omit the poo it until your grows are clean.  You can easily g2g contaminants along and never see them, and will most likely expand them over the generations.  Unless you have a flowhood and are quite experienced I wouldn't recommend g2g'ing more than one generation before going back to agar, especially given the problems you're having.


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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Is the bucket pasturization tek unreliable? [Re: AgarStudent]
    #26691780 - 05/24/20 04:29 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Exactly what mushpunx said. The bucket tek with coir is reliable. Failures are almost always caused by mixing with contaminated spawn.

It's a 3 stage process, and you have 2 stages to identify failure, in your agar petri dishes and your grain jars, before you mix the grain with coir.


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Re: Is the bucket pasturization tek unreliable? [Re: AgarStudent]
    #26691807 - 05/24/20 05:06 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

AgarStudent said:
Yeah I am doing g-g transfers mostly.  It’s been pretty reliable in the past, but so far I am just getting this:



It has both verm and guano in it as well, so do you recommend proper pasturization?




That looks like Trich or some form of green mold. Yeah like the others have stated, guano or any other poop needs proper Pasteurize cycle because the bad stuff dosent get killed with boiling water.


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OfflineAgarStudent
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Re: Is the bucket pasturization tek unreliable? [Re: Sockadin]
    #26691958 - 05/24/20 07:04 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Ah yes Stranger, exactly.

I used to pay a premium for top grade canna coco,  which came almost double sealed and on breakable blocks.  Then all the local vendors stopped supplying it, as it was too expensive for them.

My only option then was these cheaper slow expanding 5kg blocks that were all on a pallet and basically had to laboriously be cut into quarters with a saw so you could use them.  Once I stated using these blocks and just using the bucket tek, but with warm to hot water, all my grows turned to shit.

My pans did really well with some of this coco mixed with cow poo after it was pasturized, but the cubensis did not use pasturised substrate and this happens with mould:



Hey Machiavelliavore - I definitely use a flowhood and would not do it any other way for g-g transfers.  This has been pretty reliable in the past too - going down to 6 or 7 generations before going back to a master wedge.  I can even get a photo of a jar colonising -





Edited by AgarStudent (05/24/20 07:13 AM)


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Is the bucket pasturization tek unreliable? [Re: AgarStudent]
    #26692056 - 05/24/20 08:16 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I’ve only done straw in a bucket once but it worked out fine.

I used boiling water and I don’t have a lid so I put a cardboard pizza box on top.

It stays hot for hours like that.


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OfflineAgarStudent
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Re: Is the bucket pasturization tek unreliable? [Re: A.k.a]
    #26692065 - 05/24/20 08:20 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Okay - I could put on boiling water and leave it for a few hours, rather than using warm water.
Thing is I was trying to use it, so it would only be soaking for 10 minutes before scooping it out into tubs once the coco expanded.


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OfflineA.k.aM
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Re: Is the bucket pasturization tek unreliable? [Re: AgarStudent]
    #26692079 - 05/24/20 08:24 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Oh well that’s only half the bucket tek lol.

You can’t pasteurize in ten minutes, but coir doesn’t need it anyway.


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InvisibleLadysKnight
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Re: Is the bucket pasturization tek unreliable? [Re: A.k.a]
    #26692093 - 05/24/20 08:33 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

But you don't want to mix hot coir with spawn, it takes a few hours to cool if boiling water is applied.


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Is the bucket pasturization tek unreliable? [Re: AgarStudent]
    #26692138 - 05/24/20 08:51 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

AgarStudent said:
Yeah I am doing g-g transfers mostly.  It’s been pretty reliable in the past, but so far I am just getting this:



It has both verm and guano in it as well, so do you recommend proper pasturization?





There's your problem. Manure needs to be pasteurized properly (heated between 140 + 160°F for 60-90 min (90 min is max, I don't go much longer than an hour).
When you pasteurize, you are killing the harmful bacteria that die off at those temps but keeping alive the beneficial ones that can survive them. Gives the myc time to get ahold of the sub.

I wouldn't recommend using poo anyways. I know nothing about guano anyways , but for cubes I say just use coir. You can add verm if you like. It's less work, less likely to contaminate and you can get the same yields.

Save the manure for Pan grows


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Re: Is the bucket pasturization tek unreliable? [Re: mushpunx]
    #26692404 - 05/24/20 10:56 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Likely your spawn. I don’t boil my coir and just add hot water going on 5 years with hundreds if not a thousand positive results. Coir doesn’t need to be boiled. Things like dung need pasteurization.


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Edited by eatyualive (05/24/20 11:16 AM)


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Re: Is the bucket pasturization tek unreliable? [Re: AgarStudent]
    #26692504 - 05/24/20 11:56 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Those jars don't look great. I had this issue a few years ago and finally realized my flowhood was putting out to much air at to high a speed and I wasn't getting laminar flow. We all learn somehow. Some people alot quicker than me, haha.

But yeah straight coir won't contaminate.


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Is the bucket pasturization tek unreliable? [Re: Sockadin]
    #26692597 - 05/24/20 12:45 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I think there were some reports a while back of a certain brand of coir having some undesirable organic matter in it.  I use 5lbs blocks of 'plantation soil' or something.  You don't need to use a saw, a claw hammer or prybar and mallet aligned with the layers breaks it up pretty easily.

Not sure about what I'm seeing with that jar as I'm not used to seeing colonization on rye as it isn't a grain that I use, I could definitely see there being a proportion of meshed mold in there though, as some areas look sort of grey.


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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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OfflineAgarStudent
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Re: Is the bucket pasturization tek unreliable? [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #26694138 - 05/25/20 03:45 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Oh okay.  I never noticed that.  You might be onto something 🤔
Thanks for the insight 😉


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