Home | Community | Message Board

MushroomMan Mycology
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]
OfflineMoses_Davidson
Non-Prophet
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/21/20
Posts: 613
Last seen: 3 months, 29 days
What is wealth? * 1
    #26691983 - 05/24/20 07:25 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

After being financially obliterated, I had some time to sit and think. "Was all of the work even worthwhile?" Here are some of the thoughts I pondered as I asked myself if I was nothing more than a packrat accumulating useless but shiny objects.

1. An old lady passed away, and upon cleaning out her apartment, we found thousands of old grocery bags and bread bags, neatly stored. I thought, "Why would anyone want to keep a bunch of garbage?"

2. My grandparents passed away some years ago. Very few of their possessions were wanted by anyone, and most went right into a dumpster. As I looked at various items that they had purchased, sitting in the dumpster, I thought, "Maybe it is tough to discern what my heirs will say is a bunch of garbage. Am I keeping a bunch of garbage?"

3. At one point I worked very hard to become a prodigious accumulator of wealth. I worked very hard to amass equity in various forms, especially using leverage. This all became a cash-flow nightmare, a ball-and-chain obligation of payments to make. So, I concluded that equity (in and of itself) was not worth anything at all if you couldn't eat it. Neither was revenue (in and of itself) worth anything to me, if you couldn't keep enough of it. Owning any equity which requires work is not profit, it is a job that requires the trade of time for money. A big job is not wealth, it is a just a job, trading time for money. (You can always get more money, but you can never get your time back... therefore time is more valuable than money, in my opinion.)

4. When my mother passes away, I will someday be a trust fund recipient. When split between my siblings, cousins, second cousins, third cousins, and fourth cousins, I will be almost able to purchase a sandwich every month. The attorney who administrates it earns a lot for writing all the checks. Some old patriarch of my family (whose name I do not even know) was jumping for joy to have his wealth, and went so far as to set up a trust, which today distributes very small checks to a large group of individuals who don't even know each other. He probably went to the grave feeling smug about it. If I won the lottery, would I want to give it to a bunch of strangers who don't even know my name or care about me? Like a 501(c)(3) donation to an organization that gives $50 annually to some random people?

5. At one point, I lived in and owned a really cool place. Now, not so much. When I was out for a walk, out away from town among the trees and grass following an old deer trail through the woods, I sat by a little pond and thought, "Man this is cool. I wish I owned this land." Then I remembered Thoreau said something similar while sitting somewhere, that he wished he lived there. He commented, for a few hours he did live there. So, I thought, can any human own land, or is it akin to a flea claiming to own part of a dog? So really, by sitting there, was I exerting "ownership" of that land for a few moments, by occupying space there?

6. After my financial clusterfudge, I had time to think in retrospect about each transaction. Nearly every item where I allocated capital amounted to jack squat, except the money I gave away. I feel like that giving is still mine, and I still own those donations.

Is "wealth" then just cash-flow without work attached? Is it better to just divest it all while living since you can't take it with you? Is "saving" money akin to saving perishable food?

If any of you have had some insights or thoughts on wealth, however crazy, they might make more sense than what I believed about wealth. I don't really know what to think anymore and would love to hear your thoughts.


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBuster_Brown
L'une
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 11,309
Last seen: 2 days, 13 hours
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #26692085 - 05/24/20 08:28 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I sat by a little pond and thought, "Man this is cool.-

Variety- Can the living sit still all their lives? Should we be confined by ownership?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineForresterM
aspiring sociopath
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
Loc: Northeast USA Flag
Last seen: 24 days, 19 hours
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26692146 - 05/24/20 08:53 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I agree, and have come to the same conclusions from mostly the same situations you typed up, especially as it relates to going through others stuff when they pass...

We had half of everything we own stored in our garage the last few years.  Mice and other critters have ruined it all, and what isn't ruined we can't use because we are so allergic to the mouse stuff.

Strangely, neither my wife nor I saw it as a loss, in any way whatsoever.  All it did was make it easier for us to let go and not have to sort through it all.  Now we fill a dumpster every 2 weeks until it is gone. 

Amazingly freeing.  Wealth, stuff of any sort is worthless, other than the bare necessities really.  In fact it's less than worthless as the more value you assign to it, the more it weighs you down.  When you ain't got nothin', you ain't got nothin' to lose.

How I see it anyway.  True happiness comes from a position of "no need".


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMoses_Davidson
Non-Prophet
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/21/20
Posts: 613
Last seen: 3 months, 29 days
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Forrester]
    #26692352 - 05/24/20 10:34 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

So owning necessary stuff can help us to have no need, but we can be confined by ownership of so-called wealth when it takes away from the ability move about, and constrains our time.

I need to let go and sort through a bunch of stuff. I think I will go do that this afternoon.


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineForresterM
aspiring sociopath
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
Loc: Northeast USA Flag
Last seen: 24 days, 19 hours
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #26692378 - 05/24/20 10:45 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Moses_Davidson said:
So owning necessary stuff can help us to have no need, but we can be confined by ownership of so-called wealth when it takes away from the ability move about, and constrains our time.




Good way to put it, agreed!  Just filled another dumpster.  The neighbors love us, anything useful gets left in a pile labelled free...


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


Edited by Forrester (05/24/20 01:12 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #26692440 - 05/24/20 11:11 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I hate stuff, but am paying 400$/month to store what does not fit in our apartment, and I only want to keep the paintings, which I think I can sell.

haven't bought a new car for 13 years, but I do like real estate, and I would like to flip and move when corona is over.

I think I am going to let the storage go next month or the one after.

a few of our furnishings will make some people happy for a few hundred years but most stuff is not worth it.

as for achieving and losing wealth, I hear ya. been there, trying not to lose my shirt, I still need that even if nobody wants it.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMoses_Davidson
Non-Prophet
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/21/20
Posts: 613
Last seen: 3 months, 29 days
Re: What is wealth? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26692596 - 05/24/20 12:45 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Right on... case in point.

I just cleared out a good sized pile of junk from the basement. Feels good.


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #26692601 - 05/24/20 12:46 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Time to do some Masonry & landscaping.  Feels good.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #26692747 - 05/24/20 01:57 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I like working.

I like taking breaks when I feel like taking breaks.

Therefore, I like working for myself rather than someone else.

I work more now than when I worked for someone else.

I like making more than I need.

This allows me to help others and/or save for when I don't like working as much.

Wealth is an abundance. Could be money, could be love, friends, health, intelligence, etc.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Rahz]
    #26692888 - 05/24/20 03:15 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

sounds great, I forgot what kind of work you do


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: What is wealth? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26693037 - 05/24/20 04:23 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I own a lawn care and landscaping company, going on three years now. I'll be full time in another year or two. I work with a friend who owns a HVAC company helping him when his workload is high and with things where he needs an extra person. I have several hobbies that produce income.

I get up at 8am, get ready and start working. I'm usually finished around 11pm. I take one day off a week.

Nothing necessarily wrong with having a boss. Lots of jobs working for others afford a large degree of autonomy. It depends on the job, and the boss. Some jobs just suck though, for me personally. Some people like sitting at a desk all day. I did that for several years and hated it. So it's just a matter of figuring out what you like doing, not as a matter of "helping the children" or "making a difference" but how your body and mind respond to the work.

I have a friend my age, late 40s who works for county government doing tier 3 tech support. We were supposed to play tennis this weekend. I drive an hour to his house and he's all hung over and can't play. We reschedule for today and now it's too hot for him. It was about 85 degrees. He's got a pot belly. Honestly I don't think any of that bothers him that much, just not for me.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCory Duchesne
tabernacle
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 3 days, 5 hours
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #26693177 - 05/24/20 05:20 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

False-Wealth is covetousness (ownership).  The moment you think of yourself as the owner / controller, then your mind will start creating thieves, and you'll find yourself accusing people of fraud and theft. 

True wealth is Good-Character. A person of good character will covet nothing. 

"To live is to borrow. And if we borrow to live, then life must be a pile of trash. Life and death are day and night. You and I came to watch the process of change, and now change has caught up with me. Why would I have anything to resent?"


--------------------
C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung

Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti

"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]


Edited by Cory Duchesne (05/24/20 05:20 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Cory Duchesne]
    #26693233 - 05/24/20 05:38 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

So you don't mind if someone takes all your stuff?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMoses_Davidson
Non-Prophet
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/21/20
Posts: 613
Last seen: 3 months, 29 days
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Cory Duchesne]
    #26693272 - 05/24/20 05:52 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

That's pretty hard core. So how does one cultivate this good character?


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #26693319 - 05/24/20 06:08 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

you have oversimplified wealth by casting a kind of agency to it, basically making it into an evil entity.

re-examine the habit of that.
of demonizing...
it could be from  lingering superstition


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJackboy10
Stranger
Registered: 05/24/20
Posts: 3
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
Re: NEED HELP IDENTIFYING. Are they Psilocybin?? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26693356 - 05/24/20 06:24 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Hey I found mushrooms in a front lawn, here are some pictures could some one tell me what kind and if they are psilocybin mushrooms. Thankyou


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBuster_Brown
L'une
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 11,309
Last seen: 2 days, 13 hours
Re: NEED HELP IDENTIFYING. Are they Psilocybin?? [Re: Jackboy10]
    #26693412 - 05/24/20 06:50 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

No blueing bruises? Forget them, but I'm no expert.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBuster_Brown
L'une
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 11,309
Last seen: 2 days, 13 hours
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26693430 - 05/24/20 06:55 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

There's karmic wealth and proprietorship wealth. Proprietorship wealth can avoid karmic debt. Karmic wealth can side-step proprietorship shenanigans.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDividedQuantumM
Outer Head
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,818
Re: NEED HELP IDENTIFYING. Are they Psilocybin?? [Re: Jackboy10]
    #26693537 - 05/24/20 07:37 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Jackboy10 said:
Hey I found mushrooms in a front lawn, here are some pictures could some one tell me what kind and if they are psilocybin mushrooms. Thankyou






Try the Mushroom Hunting and Identification forum.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26693634 - 05/24/20 08:16 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
There's karmic wealth and proprietorship wealth. Proprietorship wealth can avoid karmic debt. Karmic wealth can side-step proprietorship shenanigans.



I really tried to wrap my mind around karma and all I get is a cross between, luck and self worth, such that you may treat yourself to experience you feel you deserve.

otherwise I think it is superstition.

how can you explain what you mean other than that?


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCory Duchesne
tabernacle
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 3 days, 5 hours
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #26693713 - 05/24/20 08:44 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Moses_Davidson said:
That's pretty hard core. So how does one cultivate this good character?




Like anything, it's diligence / hard work.  When someone is working hard, there is always an idol, lord or many idols or lords. The overseers.  In other words, it all depends on who your gods/idols are.  For some, their gods are the members of whatever institution that gives them money / security / hope, etc.

When I was 20 my gods were Diogenes, Terence McKenna, Nietzsche, John Frusciante, Alan Watts, Carl Jung, J. Krishnamurti, Tao Te Ching, etc.  Those were the lords I've been working for, for approx. 15+ years.  I'm 39 years old, so I've been through hell, and I'm still in hell, much of the time. The less these idols cloud the mind, the more one merges harmoniously with direct perception.  One of the qualities of the soul is the lack of the possessive pronoun or gender (my, mine).  Existence is ours, the shipwreck on the shore of eternity where life plays it's joyful games. 

One might benefit from this audio / image:



--------------------
C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung

Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti

"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]


Edited by Cory Duchesne (05/24/20 08:45 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMoses_Davidson
Non-Prophet
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/21/20
Posts: 613
Last seen: 3 months, 29 days
Re: NEED HELP IDENTIFYING. Are they Psilocybin?? [Re: Jackboy10]
    #26693741 - 05/24/20 08:57 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Jackboy10 said:
Hey I found mushrooms in a front lawn, here are some pictures could some one tell me what kind and if they are psilocybin mushrooms. Thankyou





Looks like inky caps. Meh.


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCory Duchesne
tabernacle
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 3 days, 5 hours
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Rahz]
    #26693753 - 05/24/20 09:03 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
So you don't mind if someone takes all your stuff?




It's already happened, in many ways. Of course it can be excruciatingly painful to want what is not so. It's like anything, exposure to extreme hot or cold temperatures, exposure to harsh weather, living in poverty... there are some uncomfortable sensations and thoughts, and it's best to face these things head on and realize it's not as bad as the imagination makes it out to be.  We suffer more in our imagination than we do in reality.  There's a story of Ramana Maharshi (Bhagavan).... and one night some thieves broke into the ashram and tried to extort money and goods that were not there.  The thieves were calmly informed that there was no money there to take, and it's true, there was no money or anything valuable to take.  The thief, who was deluded in his strong conviction, did not believe there was no money.  So he started beating Bhagavan's shin with a club, resorting to torture methods to force the sage to cough up the goods.  This went on for some time, until the thieves gave up and left.  The next day Bhagavan said, "oh well, that's what thieves do, for now on we'll lock up the Ashram at 7pm and make sure no one sneaks in again. * shrug, what can you do?  It's like blizzard or a drought, you just have to push through it.


--------------------
C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung

Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti

"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Cory Duchesne]
    #26694263 - 05/25/20 06:02 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

But if nobody really owns anything, how can anyone be a thief?

:spock:


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineForresterM
aspiring sociopath
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
Loc: Northeast USA Flag
Last seen: 24 days, 19 hours
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Cory Duchesne]
    #26694268 - 05/25/20 06:05 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cory Duchesne said:
it's best to face these things head on and realize it's not as bad as the imagination makes it out to be.  We suffer more in our imagination than we do in reality.




So, SO true!!


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCory Duchesne
tabernacle
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 3 days, 5 hours
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Rahz]
    #26694332 - 05/25/20 06:55 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
But if nobody really owns anything, how can anyone be a thief?

:spock:




A thief is a wanna be owner. Would be if he could be.  Thieves are people who want things they don't have, and then when they get them, they don't know how to use whatever it is they've tried to own.  It's like stealing a nice electric guitar, and then realizing you don't know how to play it, so the thief sells it at a pawn shop.  Then the thief owns what he really wants - money. But he doesn't have the money for very long, he soon spends it on drugs or some consumable goods.


--------------------
C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung

Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti

"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Cory Duchesne]
    #26694491 - 05/25/20 08:48 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cory Duchesne said:
Quote:

Rahz said:
But if nobody really owns anything, how can anyone be a thief?

:spock:




A thief is a wanna be owner. Would be if he could be.  Thieves are people who want things they don't have, and then when they get them, they don't know how to use whatever it is they've tried to own.  It's like stealing a nice electric guitar, and then realizing you don't know how to play it, so the thief sells it at a pawn shop.  Then the thief owns what he really wants - money. But he doesn't have the money for very long, he soon spends it on drugs or some consumable goods.




Seems like you're sidestepping the question. If a thief is a wanna be owner, then non-thieves don't want to own anything? How do people amass stuff, not wanting to own anything? Are they all thieves? How can a person be a thief if they gain something through honest work? If someone takes something you 'keep around and find useful', that is no problem?

I think the whole non-ownership thing is a bad meme. The reality is that nothing is fundamentally owned by laws of the universe, but that's not what ownership means. Ownership, possession, is a relationship and hopefully we can agree that there are relationships between people and the things they keep or have, use on a regular basis, expect to be where they left them. And when they're not, people tend to be bothered. First the item is not readily available and second it has to be replaced which takes time/money/work.

There is opinion at work, but let's not pretend opinions don't matter. It's actually the whole pretext of ownership. Owning land is an agreement between an individual and a government, which simply means the strong party shares the opinion of ownership with the weak party, and there are laws in place to compel both parties to be fair. The government can't normally just take a person's land without good reason, and if they have good reason they may need to get other opinions to back them up.

Not picking on you in particular, this is a common idea that has come up often over the years.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCory Duchesne
tabernacle
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 3 days, 5 hours
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Rahz]
    #26694712 - 05/25/20 10:54 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:


Seems like you're sidestepping the question. If a thief is a wanna be owner, then non-thieves don't want to own anything?





Instead of saying I am an owner, it's more correct to say that I am a borrower. Everything we think we own will be given (returned, lent, borrowed, or stolen) to someone else eventually.  It's a semantics issue, no doubt, and this conversation can regress into inanities fast. There are different terms we can use, "well cared for", "guarded" "dominated" "controlled", "abused" or "stolen" and then there's being "tricked".
 
When the human being gets attached to an object or person, there's also the image of oneself as a non-thief or good person, and one naturally makes a claim to whatever it is that one has become attached to.     

I think most of us want some feeling of control, not only over physical things, but we often fool ourselves into thinking we can control private information, our time, our personal secrets, embarrassing stories, etc. 

The urge to possess is quite strong and innate in the human being. I've observed babies/toddlers, and it appears there is an innate tendency for the emotions and language to make a claim, saying, "this is mine!"  I've seen it with my own eyes and ears, toddlers are not taught to be territorial over people and things.  I can also see the anguish and despair when the toddler is separated and pulled away from the things he loves, or yearns to possess, whether is be a toy or a person.

Quote:


How do people amass stuff, not wanting to own anything?




I don't deny that people want to own their stuff, or own their time, control who takes up their time. We naturally build resistances against people who approach us too enthusiastically or aggressively.  I have a cousin who once got very competitive and aggressive with me, and I figured he'd cool down and stop trying to dominate me.  However, when I continued to invite him over, he surprised me by inviting me out to play guitar, and I kind of had this negative feeling about what was about to happen. Once I got out to the bar with him, he then surprised me by trying to lend my guitar to another band. I told him, "I won't lend my guitar to someone who I never met. Where is this guy"  My cousin replied that I couldn't meet the guy who wanted to use my guitar.  I then replied, "well, then he's not using it."  To this day, I still don't understand why I couldn't meet the guy who wanted to use my guitar. Maybe they were planning to break the guitar on stage?  Anyways, 10 minutes later, my cousin says, ok, you can meet the guy first, and then lend him your guitar.  So I meet the guy in person, shake his hand, and I say, "if this is something you feel you really need to do, then okay".  I was dissapointed to have to share my guitar. My cousin continued to be sketchy for the next month or so, and I eventually left the scene, bewildered and upset. 

Quote:


Are they all thieves? How can a person be a thief if they gain something through honest work? If someone takes something you 'keep around and find useful', that is no problem?




I think what you call "a problem" is a consequence of becoming attached and covetous.  It's humbling and sometimes infuriating to find someone has taken or made use of something I wanted to possess and control indefinitely.

Quote:


Ownership, possession, is a relationship and hopefully we can agree that there are relationships between people and the things they keep or have, use on a regular basis, expect to be where they left them. And when they're not, people tend to be bothered. First the item is not readily available and second it has to be replaced which takes time/money/work.





When people ask to use my guitar, which happens sometimes, I sometimes am bothered.  It depends on how the person goes about it.  My cousin tried to be the middle man between me and some other guy.  It's possible to put someone uncomfortably on the spot and ask for favors that seem unfair or peculiar (in a negative way). 

We are all thieves of each others time, in some way or another.


--------------------
C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung

Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti

"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]


Edited by Cory Duchesne (05/25/20 02:58 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Cory Duchesne]
    #26695141 - 05/25/20 02:42 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Well said, and I agree that ownership is tentative and subject to change. While being pissed when something is stolen is understandable (I have a guitar stolen when I was a teenager and it still pops up in my mind occasionally) it's good to be able to let go when that's the only real option. And in light of what we're bound to loose when it's all said and done, loosing material goods that can be replaced is hardly worth crying about. :thumbup: although I'm sure I have some shallow tears left in me.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Rahz]
    #26695236 - 05/25/20 03:41 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

if a gull steals my sandwich he is a thief.
do I own a sandwich?
while eating it, do I own a half sandwich?
did I steal half a sandwich from myself?

ownership and stealing are not exactly connected.

if you are working at a table, you may not own the work, but if someone takes the papers, or your chair, which you don't own, what have they done?


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCory Duchesne
tabernacle
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 3 days, 5 hours
Re: What is wealth? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26695515 - 05/25/20 06:27 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:


if you are working at a table, you may not own the work, but if someone takes the papers, or your chair, which you don't own, what have they done?




One sees a distinction between the worker, who necessarily has a wide circle of loyalty, and the thief who necessarily has the bare minimum circle of loyalty.  In other words, there appears to be a distinction between a large social circle where one is known for working, waiting and negotiating with many people, and in the case of a thief, a bare minimum circle of loyalty where one has something to hide, a hidden life of secrecy. The thief must necessarily exist in a greater state of secrecy and fear, and also, necessarily, a smaller circle of people who know him. When a thief becomes well known as a thief to the large number he takes from, then whatever power was sustaining him will decrease, and his isolation will increase, and his opportunities will necessarily diminish.  The worker on the other hand, provided he produces in accordance to plan and expectations, will find his opportunities increase. 

Wealth comes from the ability to work, and working means waiting, negotiating and meeting the expectations of those he works with.  With the thief, it's more like, "Surprise! Goodbye!"

The worker says, "I'll catch you later."


--------------------
C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung

Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti

"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]


Edited by Cory Duchesne (05/25/20 08:15 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Cory Duchesne]
    #26695661 - 05/25/20 08:03 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

we see thief like surprise behavior in the animal kingdom too.

I really get this thief thing.

perhaps we can define wealth in terms of what a thief perceives worth stealing.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBrendanFlock
Stranger
Male

Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 4,216
Last seen: 6 hours, 27 minutes
Re: What is wealth? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26695817 - 05/25/20 09:34 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Money is just a means to an end.. excercising your right to have utility is the goal of any human being..

Often in our culture money is one of the easiest ways to fulfil utility..

So wealth therefore is based on how much (a min max) you can trade for utility and the ways that allow utility to prosper..


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: What is wealth? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #26696240 - 05/26/20 04:57 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

so power, versus what excites thieves


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCory Duchesne
tabernacle
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 3 days, 5 hours
Re: What is wealth? [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #26696533 - 05/26/20 08:49 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:


Often in our culture money is one of the easiest ways to fulfil utility..

So wealth therefore is based on how much (a min max) you can trade for utility and the ways that allow utility to prosper..




That's pretty good.  It's easier to say what wealth is not than to say what wealth is.  It's easy to break things down so they don't work. It's difficult to set things right.

We can see "the ease" of trading money for some particular consumable, whether tobacco or heroin. It is due to this very ease that one gradually falls into poverty and poor health.

"It is not necessary to isolate the egotist - he accomplishes this for himself. Egotism is not so painful to those who have it as to those who must endure it. Like the leprosy that numbs the nerves before it attacks the adjacent tissues, inordinate self-esteem first befuddles the judgment and then rots out the whole fabric of the mind. Egotism is a curious kind of ailment that afflicts shallow minds. It is most likely to trouble those who least suspect its presence, and advanced cases are usually incurable.  ~ Manly P. Hall (Horizon September 1941 p. 20, 21)

Wealth and Health is something quite different from the isolation, poor health and misery that often results from mere trade.  Money has often made a man very poor.   

Wealth is a quality of relationship and community.  There is no wealth without community and personal intimate relations.  The egotist has no personal intimate relations. He's isolated and the only relief or release he gets is through spending money on consumable goods. There's no productivity, and if he is productive, there are few who will acknowledge what he has produced, for he often slanders and defames the people who would have liked to work with him, and his products are often unfinished, ignored, not valued, or given away or taken from him without acknowledgement or payment.


--------------------
C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung

Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti

"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]


Edited by Cory Duchesne (05/26/20 08:51 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCory Duchesne
tabernacle
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 3 days, 5 hours
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Cory Duchesne]
    #26697342 - 05/26/20 03:49 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

"Virtue cannot dwell with wealth either in a city or in a house." - Diogenes of Sinope

Honesty, courage, compassion, generosity, fidelity, integrity, fairness, self-control, and prudence are all examples of virtues. A person who has developed the virtue of generosity is often referred to as a generous person because he or she tends to be generous in all circumstances. (Ethics and Virtue - Markkula Center for Applied Ethics)


--------------------
C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung

Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti

"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Cory Duchesne]
    #26697589 - 05/26/20 05:39 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I haven't met a really rich person that I liked.

of course they couldn't give a damn about that.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCory Duchesne
tabernacle
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 3 days, 5 hours
Re: What is wealth? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26697623 - 05/26/20 05:52 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I made a website dedicated to some rich folks. I don't have time for anyone who claims to own wealth yet harasses someone with constant questions and requests and commands and even insults. It's like these people do everything they can to waste your time and ruin your day. 

http://www.okpinethen.com/activeLearningTutor/corruption2.php


Diogenes to Alexander: "I have nothing to ask but that you would remove to the other side, so that you may not, by intercepting the sunshine, take from me what you cannot give."


--------------------
C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung

Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti

"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMoses_Davidson
Non-Prophet
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/21/20
Posts: 613
Last seen: 3 months, 29 days
Re: What is wealth? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26698060 - 05/26/20 09:36 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I haven't met a really rich person that I liked.




Oh don't be such a snob-- They can't very well help it that they're rich.


--------------------
"In finance, everything that is agreeable is unsound and everything that is sound is disagreeable." --Sir Winston Churchill

"The world may not only be stranger than we suppose, it may be stranger than we can suppose."
J.B.S. Haldane

"Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't."
Mark Twain


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCory Duchesne
tabernacle
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 3 days, 5 hours
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Moses_Davidson]
    #26698607 - 05/27/20 05:18 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Moses_Davidson said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
I haven't met a really rich person that I liked.




Oh don't be such a snob-- They can't very well help it that they're rich.




I don't have a problem with so called rich folks with lots of money, property and cars - as long as you stay within your boundaries.  However, when you wander over to your neighbor who has considerably less, and you've got nothing to offer except for ridiculing and insulting comments or issuing commands, then I hope you're smart enough to realize you deserve whatever comes back to you in return, whether that be insults or a physical assault.  There are some ugly sounding rich people who deserve the hostility and antagonism they stir up.  You stick your nose in your neighbors business because you think your money buys you security and power over others, then you deserve a good beating.


--------------------
C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung

Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti

"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]


Edited by Cory Duchesne (05/27/20 05:20 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLoaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/02/15
Posts: 8,006
Loc: Now O'Clock
Last seen: 28 days, 5 hours
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Moses_Davidson] * 1
    #26698629 - 05/27/20 05:40 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I'd argue wealth is the ability to both derive and project abundance in ways that transcend material need, yet ironically allow for their synchronistic induction just as needed.

Most would call this the "unconditional love" vibe/wavelength.


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26699003 - 05/27/20 09:04 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
I'd argue wealth is the ability to both derive and project abundance in ways that transcend material need, yet ironically allow for their synchronistic induction just as needed.

Most would call this the "unconditional love" vibe/wavelength.



this is a great teacher type whose wealth is in the category of wisdom, I think I would like such people.

What I mostly dislike about rich people is that they do not think for themselves, but operate like lemmings, checking what the other people of their class are doing.

to the degree that people are like lemmings (all classes), I find  them disappointing automatons, but I suppose I should develop some compassion for lemmings, we all one day fall from a great height and die.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery


Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
Re: NEED HELP IDENTIFYING. Are they Psilocybin?? [Re: Jackboy10] * 1
    #26699811 - 05/27/20 03:43 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Listen up newbie: Do you want to die? Horribly? Read carefully I am not taking the time here just to be mean:

(1) If your mom or a guardian never told you as a little child NOT to ever put LBMs (Little Brown Mushrooms) in your mouth, then here is your warning.

(2) There isn't a reputable, ethical mycologist alive who would tell anyone that a mushroom is safe to eat by looking at the pictures you provided!

(3) Mushroom macro-structure is insufficient to determine the exact identity. One has to look at:
    a) spore color in the first place and then
    b) spore shape 
    c) spore size
    d) substrate (what is is growing from: bovine dung, rotten wood, dead animal, etc.).

(4) THIS forum is not a mushroom identification forum, but even if you go there, do not trust random opinions. Do not trust your life to anyone's forum opinion on any site based on your pictures alone! Your life may depend on this.

I have seen a picture of Psilocybes growing alongside of a deadly Galerina autumnalis/marginata. They LOOK pretty much the same but if one did not sort the Galerina from the Psilocybe, liver failure would result over the next few days resulting in an agonizing death unless a liver transplant could be performed ASAP. That is, assuming a donor liver that matched you was available, you were jumped to the top of the waiting list for the emergency, and you had the insurance and/or $300,000+ to pay for the operation.

Since you are asking this question of strangers, on a forum which has nothing to do with mushroom identification, my advice to you on record is:  Do not eat ANY mushroom you find at this time until you learn a good deal more about them. At this point, this includes dung-loving mushrooms too. You will be far less likely to make yourself sick or kill yourself. This is world-renowned mycologist Paul Stamets with a warning:



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleShr00mEater
Strange
Male

Registered: 10/17/18
Posts: 985
Re: NEED HELP IDENTIFYING. Are they Psilocybin?? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26699860 - 05/27/20 04:14 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Nice write up.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRJ Tubs 202
Male


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 56 minutes, 3 seconds
Re: What is wealth? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26700175 - 05/27/20 07:05 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:

What I mostly dislike about rich people is that they do not think for themselves, but operate like lemmings, checking what the other people of their class are doing.




And the poor and middle class don't?  Notice the herd-like mob mentality of the current riots. 

I'm fascinated how people only protest certain types of hatred - but the rich deserve to be hated!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDividedQuantumM
Outer Head
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,818
Re: What is wealth? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26700390 - 05/27/20 08:30 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

You raise a good point. It behooves us to remember that rich people, in the majority of cases, are ordinary people with a lot of money. Raw intelligence factors into it a lot less than is commonly supposed. Of course certain other traits, like ruthlessness, factor in a lot more than is commonly supposed.

As far as this thread, etymologically "wealth" just means being well, a state of physical, mental and spiritual wellness. In twentieth century America, all it really came to mean was having gobs of cash. A particularly American evolution, one must say.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBrendanFlock
Stranger
Male

Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 4,216
Last seen: 6 hours, 27 minutes
Re: What is wealth? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26700461 - 05/27/20 09:17 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I like this idea..: to understand the true value of money you need unconditional love..


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBuster_Brown
L'une
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 11,309
Last seen: 2 days, 13 hours
Re: What is wealth? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26701002 - 05/28/20 06:16 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
There's karmic wealth and proprietorship wealth. Proprietorship wealth can avoid karmic debt. Karmic wealth can side-step proprietorship shenanigans.



I really tried to wrap my mind around karma and all I get is a cross between, luck and self worth, such that you may treat yourself to experience you feel you deserve.

otherwise I think it is superstition.

how can you explain what you mean other than that?




"Time will tell"- Compassion accedes the necessity of time to bring out the flavors of the soup as it were that will sustain us thru time.

The expression "power corrupts" might be a harsh perception of the change that occurs as forces in the soup brings out the flavor thru time.

Cory quotes Diogenes as saying that there is no virtue in advantage and LS argues that advantage is the panacea in all occasions.

That brings us back to the competition between us and the powers that be. It takes time and self-evaluation to present a case on the merits of ingredients in soup. We all have our preferences, and those with 'Advantage' aint gonna let some Texan throw Salsa in when it aint desired. But compassion allows that a period can be appointed for the salsa experiment.

'Advantage' then is key, as is the recognition that advantage will resort to silencing opposition (Booting the Texan and his salsa out of the kitchen). But altho this exists in all forms of State, compassion accedes the airing of the case.

Some authority then has to determine the Form in which the proceedings will proceed. Why not You? Let's try making soup your way then my way then his way then her's; that's compassionate. The Texan gets to serve his salsa to the bench who agree that time is of the essence in the appreciation of his dish and that habit can dictate a preference that may not stand up to the test of time.

The judges then, you me him & her, are held to a standard over time, that we attempt to change to our own preference.

Over time we might glimpse the forces that would govern the soup to their own taste, and we might perceive an undercurrent of logic that can defy derailment

If the State is a product of the character of the wise men who formed it, then 'Character' is under scrutiny. Sure, their is a carrying capacity that determines a culling of the excess, but it's the character of those who decide the culling that is open to inspection. Can the end justify the means if the characters involved are prone to dishonesty as a defense? The answer is 'Yes' if everybody is prone to dishonesty as a defense and time will tell if this condition is a common ingredient to be factored in; if it isn't then we can exclude it from the decision making process.

Karma then factors in your ingredients that forms the soup enjoyed. One day I expect to say "Let's enjoy a bottle of RGV over dinner" to which someone may reply "I much prefer the OrgoneConclusion, it's so much smoother"...


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: What is wealth? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26701007 - 05/28/20 06:20 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:

What I mostly dislike about rich people is that they do not think for themselves, but operate like lemmings, checking what the other people of their class are doing.




And the poor and middle class don't?  Notice the herd-like mob mentality of the current riots. 

I'm fascinated how people only protest certain types of hatred - but the rich deserve to be hated!



if I  were to tell you that what I hate about all people is that they act like lemmings, then you would not appreciate that rich people are as hopeless as a group as poor people.

obviously we are in "agreeance", and I don't hate any group, I just find the lemming aspect of humans (groups of humans) disappointing.

the unexamined life and all that


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26701025 - 05/28/20 06:27 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I agree that advantage means more than wealth(/potential), but karma soup as a metaphor needs a bit more work (has potential), and if rgv could be a drink, additive, spice or flavor, get in line, I got a list of people that want to smoke my ashes when I croak.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBuster_Brown
L'une
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 11,309
Last seen: 2 days, 13 hours
Re: What is wealth? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26701055 - 05/28/20 06:49 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Well, perhaps I earned a ribbon for my performance in our dance around the Maypole.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBuster_Brown
L'une
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 11,309
Last seen: 2 days, 13 hours
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26701586 - 05/28/20 11:20 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I really tried to wrap my mind around karma and all I get is a cross between, luck and self worth, such that you may treat yourself to experience you feel you deserve.

otherwise I think it is superstition.




A thorough study of the subject would include individual cases and not just those who profess that freedom is not free because you must do your National service and then be prepared to serve when called or else be undeserving of the perks a country can provide her loyal followers (and indeed many would prefer not to forgo those perks)

One might profess then that one must die in the service of your country and be born again (reincarnated) to enjoy a higher standing in the community, and examining a statement like this would require maybe more time than you have, so perhaps it is true (1 Corinthians 15:26) that we must first abolish your death before the subject can be given the attention it deserves.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26701786 - 05/28/20 12:50 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I do not agree that you should get away with proposing something intentionally hard to follow, and then assume that it lets you establish the alternative by quoting 1 Corinthians x:y.

It is a brutal way to schmear bible memes.

is it about wealth?
what does it mean by "abolish"?
and why does the subject of a yet to occur eventuality (your death) need attention in this context?


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: What is wealth? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26701816 - 05/28/20 01:05 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Karma is more or less the chain of cause & effect .
Ex.


We may be on a train, people are sitting next to us, the scenery is constantly changing, why is this one person sitting next to me? Why is this other person standing in front of me? We do not know one another, if we think about it, it is rather strange. It may be predestined, which is the law of an imaginary god, yet in zen there is not imagined god existing. This is where Ryokan puts it well. This imaginary god is called the law of karmic connection in zen.

There is a cause for our encounter which is connected by invisible strings to the outcome. Ryokan says, we naturally follow the universal way. Ryokan does not leave it at an encounter coming about curiously, but says it depends on our karmic connections.


-  (semi-out of context) copy pasta from one drop’s site.



Edited by The Blind Ass (05/28/20 01:19 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineRJ Tubs 202
Male


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 56 minutes, 3 seconds
Re: What is wealth? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #26701839 - 05/28/20 01:19 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:

As far as this thread, etymologically "wealth" just means being well, a state of physical, mental and spiritual wellness. In twentieth century America, all it really came to mean was having gobs of cash.




I think the common use of the word "wealthy" is the cause of that.

In the US, "The Wealthy" are seen as a class, with monetary wealth.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBuster_Brown
L'une
Male User Gallery

Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 11,309
Last seen: 2 days, 13 hours
Re: What is wealth? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26702106 - 05/28/20 03:43 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I do not agree that you should get away with proposing something intentionally hard to follow...




I agree, it stinks but there it is "an intuitive conceptual alternative to rationalist...philosophy" link


Quote:

…and then assume that it lets you establish the alternative by quoting 1 Corinthians




I assumed you were practically dead by the manner in which you've been conversing and required a life extension in order to manage any serious research.


Quote:

is it about wealth?




Uh-huh.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejcby
Stranger
Registered: 11/27/18
Posts: 17
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26711507 - 06/01/20 01:14 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

What is wealth when you can have happiness?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCory Duchesne
tabernacle
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 3 days, 5 hours
Re: What is wealth? [Re: jcby]
    #26732592 - 06/09/20 08:17 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Wealth is awareness, intelligence and wisdom.  I uploaded a webpage demonstrating the essence of wealth.

http://www.okpinethen.com/activeLearningTutor/soil.php


--------------------
C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung

Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti

"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: What is wealth? [Re: jcby]
    #26733590 - 06/10/20 06:30 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

jcby said:
What is wealth when you can have happiness?



good idea,
point the way!


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblelaughingdog
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
Re: What is wealth? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26740459 - 06/12/20 08:01 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Re the Op's question: What is wealth?

'you don't appreciate your water,
till your well run dry"


when the planet warms a little more,
what real wealth is (or was) will become,
more apparent.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: What is wealth? [Re: laughingdog]
    #26741120 - 06/13/20 06:12 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

lasting value in valuables?


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleFerdinando
Male

Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,664
Re: What is wealth? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26741138 - 06/13/20 06:27 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

kindness


--------------------
with our love with our love we could save the world


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
Re: What is wealth? [Re: Ferdinando]
    #26741283 - 06/13/20 08:05 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

that's rich!


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCory Duchesne
tabernacle
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/05/16
Posts: 915
Loc: Nova Scotia
Last seen: 3 days, 5 hours
Re: What is wealth? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26749246 - 06/16/20 02:49 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

one of the funniest things I've ever listened to, one can genuinely laugh with this, wealthy feeling.



--------------------
C.G. Jung: "Please remember, it is what you are that heals, not what you know."

"I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud." - Carl Jung

Krishna, as his friends called him, freely admitted his compulsive lying. He blamed it on simple fear of having his deceptions detected." NOTES OF A FRINGE-WATCHER MARTIN GARDNER on J Krishnamurti

"All your questions are born out of the answers you already have. Any answer anybody gives should put an end to your questions. But it does not." [UG-K]


Edited by Cory Duchesne (06/16/20 06:05 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]

Shop: PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Wealth is Produced SkorpivoMusterion 1,944 18 05/09/06 04:55 PM
by TODAY
* Genuine
( 1 2 all )
Veritas 3,201 35 08/06/08 05:19 PM
by Icelander
* wealth? kaiowas 460 2 10/19/03 12:32 AM
by ceephax
* Trillions of dollars of wealth lost OrgoneConclusion 1,065 16 10/08/08 04:09 PM
by ExplosiveMango
* true wealth
( 1 2 all )
kaiowas 1,511 36 12/03/03 06:26 PM
by Swami
* the wealth of many cultures DoctorJ 863 9 06/02/06 01:39 PM
by DoctorJ
* Children's lives more valuable than adults? Anonymous 1,379 19 09/15/04 01:30 PM
by jux
* Intro to Meditation in Harmonic Wealth JamesRayFan 620 4 06/25/08 07:03 PM
by blewmeanie

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
1,411 topic views. 0 members, 10 guests and 9 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.045 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 14 queries.