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InvisibleDelyrium
lemonadeh.o.n.e.y.

Registered: 12/27/99
Posts: 5,941
Loc: vermont
it's not "you" and the "unirverse" it's "universeyou"
    #2668885 - 05/12/04 04:05 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

So I have been reading "Hardcore Zen". Yes the title looks as if it is a mockery of Zen but it's far from it. It puts Zen into a clear and realistic format.

The title of this thread is from the book. It hit me hard and I really feel that I can believe in this. Well it's not my choice to believe in it - it just is.

People don't really understand how we are a part of the universe. It's hard to understand that we just don't live in it - we ARE it.

Unlike many religions - we don't die and go up to MEET god. We are not separated from god - we are a part of it.

Take a ball of playdough. Pick off a piece, roll it into a ball and place that ball onto the heap of the same playdough you took it from. Is that piece separate from the heap of playdough? No not really, it's a part of the heap of playdough.

Ahhh... this is great. i'm so happy to have read that.


--------------------
Fuck Ted Nugent he?s a fucking jerk
I wish that he?d be gone
Chauvanistic republican
Kills animals cause he
Forgot how to write a song


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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: it's not "you" and the "unirverse" it's "universeyou" [Re: Delyrium]
    #2668921 - 05/12/04 04:13 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

the ball is still seperated from the original lump of it. if you were to do one thing to one ball, such as burn it, the other ball wouldnt experience the damage
you choose a bad analogy


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OfflineTinTree
thread killer(semi pro)
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Registered: 02/15/04
Posts: 1,456
Loc: Mu
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: it's not "you" and the "unirverse" it's "universeyou" [Re: Delyrium]
    #2669768 - 05/12/04 07:20 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Mu


--------------------
"I'm afraid of losing my obscurity. Genuineness only thrives in the dark. Like celery."
- Aldous Huxley


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Invisiblepsyka
Praetorian
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Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1,652
Re: it's not "you" and the "unirverse" it's "universeyou" [Re: spud]
    #2670872 - 05/12/04 10:27 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Seperation and detachment are two different things. Would you say a father and his son were seperated?


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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OfflinePHARMAKOS
addict
Registered: 09/13/02
Posts: 573
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: it's not "you" and the "unirverse" it's "universeyou" [Re: psyka]
    #2670887 - 05/12/04 10:32 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

im not sure that saying we are part of the universe is the same as saying we ARE the universe...


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Invisiblepsyka
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Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1,652
Re: it's not "you" and the "unirverse" it's "universeyou" [Re: PHARMAKOS]
    #2670997 - 05/12/04 11:01 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

How could the whole exist without the parts that make it up? What you are saying is one in the same.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: it's not "you" and the "unirverse" it's "universeyou" [Re: psyka]
    #2671041 - 05/12/04 11:12 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

square is a rectangle
a rectangle is not a square


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Registered: 09/13/02
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Re: it's not "you" and the "unirverse" it's "universeyou" [Re: spud]
    #2671152 - 05/12/04 11:35 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

exactly. just because the ball of clay couldnt exist without its componant pieces, that doesnt mean that one piece is the same as the whole ball.

1 is in 3, but it is not 3.
the cloud is in the sky, but the sky is not the cloud.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: it's not "you" and the "unirverse" it's "universeyou" [Re: Delyrium]
    #2671177 - 05/12/04 11:39 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

I think a better comparison would be a branch on a tree. It's still a part of the tree, but is also its own separate entity. In the end, though, trying to find a comparison is pretty futile.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: it's not "you" and the "unirverse" it's "universeyou" [Re: silversoul7]
    #2671195 - 05/12/04 11:43 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

yes, better
del is dumb!
i love it when people liek del buy philosophy 101 books then think they are enlightened
its so cute!
kekeke


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Anonymous

Re: it's not "you" and the "unirverse" it's "universeyou" [Re: spud]
    #2672464 - 05/13/04 08:38 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Spud yur lame. Whats with the hate.


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InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,376
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: it's not "you" and the "unirverse" it's "universeyou" [Re: spud]
    #2673414 - 05/13/04 02:06 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

That's running a fine line around flaming, spud. Please stay on topic! What you think about other members is not the topic :wink:


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


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InvisibleDelyrium
lemonadeh.o.n.e.y.

Registered: 12/27/99
Posts: 5,941
Loc: vermont
Re: it's not "you" and the "unirverse" it's "universeyou" [Re: trendal]
    #2673847 - 05/13/04 04:17 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

okay so i made a poor analogy - i'm just getting into this. it's actually a book on Zen Buddhism.

i think it's wrong of you to make fun of someone who is just starting to learn. i never said THIS IS THE WAY - LISTEN TO ME OR BE DAMNED! No... I am just sharing something I have been learning along the way.

Honestly - if you call people "dumb" for making mistaken comments while they are trying to learn - you are going to force people to not WANT to learn. Therefore - you'll have many more "dumb" people.

I didn't think this forum went that low.


--------------------
Fuck Ted Nugent he?s a fucking jerk
I wish that he?d be gone
Chauvanistic republican
Kills animals cause he
Forgot how to write a song


Edited by Delyrium (05/13/04 04:20 PM)


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InvisibleDelyrium
lemonadeh.o.n.e.y.

Registered: 12/27/99
Posts: 5,941
Loc: vermont
Re: it's not "you" and the "unirverse" it's "universeyou" [Re: spud]
    #2673863 - 05/13/04 04:19 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

uhm and I think my analogy is still kinda good...

yes you can burn that piece of playdough and it won't hurt the larger piece - but that's what happens now.

look at the terrorists... they are killing and are ruthless but we aren't. However we are them... they are us.


--------------------
Fuck Ted Nugent he?s a fucking jerk
I wish that he?d be gone
Chauvanistic republican
Kills animals cause he
Forgot how to write a song


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InvisibleJenny
part of thewhole
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/03/00
Posts: 5,614
Loc: Columbus, OHIO
Re: it's not "you" and the "unirverse" it's "universeyou" [Re: Delyrium]
    #2674121 - 05/13/04 05:02 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

the illusion of separateness is made up by the mind, which is currently being proven by man through studies of the unified field theory.

taking book recommendations from people is a good idea, theres about a thousand books on zen buddhism and the likes. Some ditzy long island chick probably isn't sure what to buy  :tongue:


--------------------

Mindfulness is the aware, balanced acceptance of the present experience.
It isn't more complicated than that.
It is opening to or recieving the present moment, pleasant or unpleasant, just as it is,
without either clinging to it or rejecting it.


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OfflinePNutButta
Stranger
Registered: 10/06/03
Posts: 114
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: it's not "you" and the "unirverse" it's "universeyou" [Re: Delyrium]
    #2676014 - 05/13/04 11:37 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

"Youniverse"


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Offlinedaba
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Registered: 12/30/02
Posts: 3,881
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: it's not "you" and the "unirverse" it's "universeyou" [Re: Delyrium]
    #2676085 - 05/13/04 11:50 PM (12 years, 6 months ago)

If I get what you are saying, delyrium... you are implying that we are the lump of dough which came from the bigger lump of dough. You also claim that people can't recognize that they are part of the universe, which does not make sense to me. There is not a person I know who thinks that they are not part of the universe. Your claims are analogous to the statement that the universe is made up of atoms, and we are also made up of atoms, which is common knowledge. Thus, from a purely atomic perspective, yes, we are just more atoms in a sea full of atoms. Nothing makes us, the earth, or the solar system any different than another randomly selected spot in the universe (from a purely atomic perspective).

Nonetheless, your "meet up with God" is quite trivial. Unfortunately, you have no proof that God is to be met up with or that we are a part of God, so your claims are as fallacious as the Earth revolves around the sun, despite the overwhelming evidence supporting it. Sadly, nothing can be proven in this dimension.

Addendum: If you really want to grasp an omniscent view of the universe, you have to stop thinking like a human. Humans place emphasis on "god" and "the afterlife," whereas in reality, everything just is... nothing truly has a purpose or importance. Those terms are all just human.

It is like the stream that brushes across the rocks. They have no control over their actions, but it does not matter to them either. They just exist.

By the way, spud isn't full of hate, he is just quite clever and witty.


--------------------
Fold for The Shroomery!


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Offlinedaba
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Registered: 12/30/02
Posts: 3,881
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: it's not "you" and the "unirverse" it's "universeyou" [Re: spud]
    #2676172 - 05/14/04 12:02 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

spud said:
i love it when people liek del buy philosophy 101 books then think they are enlightened
its so cute!
kekeke




Althought this could have been phrased differently, spud makes a very interesting point regarding the phenomena of new experiences. We as humans tend to reject those that disagree with us, and embrace those that are compatible with us. Of course the level of rejection or acceptance depends on the caliber of compatibility, and the way we express these feelings for the new experience are positively correlated.

So delyrium found something that she really agrees with and she wants to share her opinions. Good for her. It makes for a good discussion.

P.S. spud, for all of us half-wits to get to your level of numbness, we have to start from somewhere :wink:


--------------------
Fold for The Shroomery!


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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: it's not "you" and the "unirverse" it's "universeyou" [Re: Delyrium]
    #2676336 - 05/14/04 12:38 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

i was joking
im used to otd, people dont cry that fast
:grin:


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Invisiblespud
I'm so fly.

Registered: 10/07/02
Posts: 44,410
Re: it's not "you" and the "unirverse" it's "universeyou" [Re: spud]
    #2676373 - 05/14/04 12:44 AM (12 years, 6 months ago)

yes, thats what i was trying to say. im used to saying my points in a rude manner in otd
all im saying is when someone is new to any sort of debatable field, they will lean towards either the first thing they read, or the more pleasable
since filtering is a logical tool in itself, it is hard to learn logic without filtering, yet you cant filter without logic


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