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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Flat Earth [Re: Fleabag Friend]
    #26675029 - 05/16/20 02:43 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Fleabag Friend said:
None of us know what life is. This could be anything.




The discussion is not about Life qua Life, it is about the notion of a flat planet which is too absurd to speak about in terms of actuality. It is a delusion of many (folie à plusieurs). Shared Delusional Disorder is no longer listed in the DSM manual (5th edition). I do not understand why because I have seen the folie à deux (delusion of two) version at least a couple of times in the past clinically. Obviously our planet is essentially spherical (a bit wider around the equator than around the poles), and the Solar system is just that, a Heliocentric arrangement around a star (named Sol here) just as with any other planetary system; exoplanets revolve around their Suns in any other planetary system. Flat-earthers hold a shared delusional system based on their concrete and erroneous perceptions of a tiny Sun in the sky which appears to move from East to West and a horizon they appears to have an edge.

This delusion is reminiscent of children who have yet to achieve Conservation in Piagetian human development. A Pre-Operational Thinking child cannot grok that a short squat glass holds exactly the same amount of water as a tall thin glass. The child is pre-logical and perceptually fixates on only one aspect of the two glasses - tallness. One is taller than the other and therefore it is 'more' so the water must be more. However since flat-earthers demonstrate written language abilities and have mastery over the logic of their language (e.g., in English adjectives precede the noun), something else besides illogic is being demonstrated. It is not a philosophical Pyhrronist position of skepticism which has no frame of reference for what is real. It is most robustly described as being a delusion since the scientific method is the logical means for quantifying physical reality. One  delusional man died in a home-made rocketry attempt to gain sufficient perspective to prove his null hypothesis:

"... the steam-powered rocket launches weren't intended to actually lend credence to Hughes' noted flat-Earth beliefs. They were a short-term step to get publicity and funding for his ultimate goal: a "rockoon" — part rocket, part balloon — 'that would take him up about 62 miles to the edge of space, to the Kármán Line, where, as he put it, he wanted to see what shape this planet is.'" - https://www.npr.org/2020/02/23/808645524/daredevil-mad-mike-hughes-killed-in-crash-of-homemade-rocket


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineFleabag Friend
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Re: Flat Earth [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26675086 - 05/16/20 03:11 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

But see, true logic doesn't jive with that. You've taken it on someone elses authority that the earth is what it is. You don't have any definitive personal experience. And even if you did, why should I believe you? None of us really know what this is. It's all just a bunch of flashing pixels on the tv. Another line of text on a piece of paper. So easily manipulated
I've heard it argued both ways. I understand both points of view.
I do believe we have been lied to about where we are.
Can I definitively say what shape the earth is? Course not.
But calling someone delusional for not accepting what someone else simply tells them is fact is not delusion.


--------------------
"Sometimes reasonable men must do unreasonable things."-Marvin Heemeyer
𝓐 𝔀𝓸𝓶𝓪𝓷, 𝓪 𝓭𝓸𝓰, 𝓪 𝔀𝓪𝓵𝓷𝓾𝓽 𝓽𝓻𝓮𝓮, 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓶𝓸𝓻𝓮 𝔂𝓸𝓾 𝓫𝓮𝓪𝓽 '𝓮𝓶, 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓫𝓮𝓽𝓽𝓮𝓻 𝓽𝓱𝓮𝔂 𝓫𝓮.

                                                                            𝓣𝓱𝔂 𝓦𝓲𝓵𝓵 𝓑𝓮 𝓓𝓸𝓷𝓮


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: Flat Earth [Re: Fleabag Friend]
    #26676167 - 05/17/20 03:31 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Fleabag Friend said:

But calling someone delusional for not accepting what someone else simply tells them is fact is not delusion.




No, but if someone believes the earth is flat despite all the evidence supporting a globe, then they are either delusional or have not looked at the evidence pointing towards a globe and are taking someone else's like flatearth youtubers' opinion as fact.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Flat Earth [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #26676601 - 05/17/20 10:19 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

The Cave.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Flat Earth [Re: Fleabag Friend]
    #26677043 - 05/17/20 02:40 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Fleabag Friend said:
But see, true logic doesn't jive with that. You've taken it on someone elses authority that the earth is what it is. You don't have any definitive personal experience. And even if you did, why should I believe you? None of us really know what this is. It's all just a bunch of flashing pixels on the tv. Another line of text on a piece of paper. So easily manipulated
I've heard it argued both ways. I understand both points of view.
I do believe we have been lied to about where we are.
Can I definitively say what shape the earth is? Course not.
But calling someone delusional for not accepting what someone else simply tells them is fact is not delusion.




I will be the arbiter of what is or is not delusional based on a number of factors including my quantifiable IQ, my earned academic credentials, my 30+ years of clinical experience as a state licensed and nationally certified mental health professional, and the absence of any significant psychological dysfunction or diagnosable mental disorder. You are clearly having difficulty with reality-testing and not merely a philosophical difficulty. There is a reason Pyrrhonist skepticism is s a relic of a pre-scientific age. Perhaps YOU do not believe that the Apollo 11 mission never occurred and that there were no subsequent lunar missions. If that is the case I would deem you delusional as well. Because not only have many astronauts witnessed the shape of our planet, there could not have been an lunar missions unless the parameters of Earth, Moon, gravitational pull, necessary thrust/speed/trajectory to escape our planet and a million other mathematically based details that I certainly have no ability to compute were well understood. This of course includes the size, shape, rotation rate, and wobble of planet Earth, and the time-specific distances to the lunar surface.

I do not need to experience something with my senses to know what is real. The senses cannot know MOST of what is known scientifically. From electron microscopy to the Hubble telescope mechanical instrumentation is essential to knowledge. The core temperature of the Sun can be determined with some wiggle room for error but essentially the temperature of nuclear fusion in a medium size yellow-white star can be determined mathematically as can innumerable facts that the human senses cannot perceive. If a person 'believes' that the Sun is smaller than the Earth and revolves around our world s/he is simply in error and is delusional if unable or unwilling to be instructed otherwise.

There are word of mouth communications from many people who witnessed launches and days later splash-downs of the returning astronauts in my state of Florida where Cape Canaveral/Cape Kennedy launch base is located. Even if Apollo 11 merely orbited Earth for exactly eight days, three hours, 18 minutes and 35 seconds, the LEM (Lunar Excursion Module) would have re-entered Earth orbit unless to maintain the 'hoax' of a lunar landing they launched it off away from the Re-entry Vehicle and from Earth gravity. The black and white images that we saw on TV would then have had to be faked and American heroes Armstrong, Aldrin and Collins would be liars, not to mention reputable journalists like Walter Cronkite. I don't blame astronaut Buzz Aldrin from punching out a lunatic lunar landing denier and I'm a peaceful man. :lol: https://www.floridatoday.com/story/tech/science/space/2019/07/19/lunar-landing-denier-we-never-went-moon/1702676001/ ; The technical skills required to fake the lunar landing[s] to the world is less credible than what would've been required to achieve them. The course was gradual. I watched the first American Alan Shepherd make his brief non-orbit flight from Project Mercury, John Glen's 3 orbits,  through Project Gemini, Apollo missions and to Artemis. Conspiracists are not stable individuals and I am confident that the majority of mental health professionals, perhaps without exception, would agree with me in this.

Fact does not depend on "what someone else tells them" (that is your sad predicament), it is reality-based and reported by credible participants and witnesses. I have met several concentration camp survivors. I treated one clinically and another (the grandmother of a former counselee of mine) showed me her folio of photos in which she was invited to the Nuremberg Trials. She herself had been horse-whipped by Joseph Mengele the Angel of Death when disembarking the train to Auschwitz-Birkenau. Holocaust deniers may be delusional or simply consummate liars attempting to pervert truth for their own evil agendas. Deniars of reality have faulty reality-testing themselves and this defines the description of actual delusions, not conscious intentions to deceive. Flat-earth proponents who 'believe' their absurd assertions ARE delusional although there may be others amongst them who are present for alternative reasons like the manipulation of the 'believers' for purposes of their own. Reality is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of fact.


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OfflineRorge
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Re: Flat Earth [Re: thealienthatategod]
    #26682159 - 05/19/20 11:04 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

thealienthatategod said:
i enjoyed that, thank you

what do you think is beyond the edge of time?



“The edge... There is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over.” ~HST


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OfflineLoaded Shaman
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Re: Flat Earth [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26682410 - 05/20/20 01:44 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

My honest question is this: how do ball Earther's constantly get sucked into these never ending threads, convos, videos, discussions, etc, if they're certain they are correct, and FE's are delusional?

Why are you wasting time trying to prove shit to people that are clearly not on the same page?

After a certain point YOU become the fool...

..On this flat, infinite plane...

:wink:


--------------------



"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius


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OfflineFleabag Friend
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Re: Flat Earth [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26682414 - 05/20/20 01:46 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Good point to consider...


--------------------
"Sometimes reasonable men must do unreasonable things."-Marvin Heemeyer
𝓐 𝔀𝓸𝓶𝓪𝓷, 𝓪 𝓭𝓸𝓰, 𝓪 𝔀𝓪𝓵𝓷𝓾𝓽 𝓽𝓻𝓮𝓮, 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓶𝓸𝓻𝓮 𝔂𝓸𝓾 𝓫𝓮𝓪𝓽 '𝓮𝓶, 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓫𝓮𝓽𝓽𝓮𝓻 𝓽𝓱𝓮𝔂 𝓫𝓮.

                                                                            𝓣𝓱𝔂 𝓦𝓲𝓵𝓵 𝓑𝓮 𝓓𝓸𝓷𝓮


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Flat Earth [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #26682419 - 05/20/20 01:50 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I want to believe a small % of flat earthers started the conspiracy as a type of clever thought experiment to illustrate how easily perception alone can be fooled without accurate information, proper instrumentation & education >  and how it can lead to illusory or erroneous/ delusive views...

That the rest of the majority % of fe’s just get trolled by not being in on it.  :shrug:

Maybe those OG few quit long ago...and now there is no one left who knows that can steer the ship and & to tell them what it was actually for, so those that are left erroneously think it’s serious business because they don’t have the proper context of the original few’s mission statement for the philosophical thought experiment ...

I wish. :nonono:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (05/29/20 02:38 AM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Flat Earth [Re: Loaded Shaman] * 1
    #26682439 - 05/20/20 02:05 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Loaded Shaman said:
My honest question is this: how do ball Earther's constantly get sucked into these never ending threads, convos, videos, discussions, etc, if they're certain they are correct, and FE's are delusional?

Why are you wasting time trying to prove shit to people that are clearly not on the same page?

After a certain point YOU become the fool...

..On this flat, infinite plane...

:wink:





Exactly what my wife wants to know about my continued presence on The Shroomery. Why do I waste my time with so many wastrels fixated in protracted adolescence? Because sometimes people wake up for one and for another because if one is in possession of wisdom by virtue of continued compassionate action, persistence does not become foolishness. That is a perception of one ignorant of the nature of compassion as wisdom.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Flat Earth [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26682443 - 05/20/20 02:10 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

:hi:


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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OfflineFleabag Friend
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Re: Flat Earth [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26682457 - 05/20/20 02:21 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

So do you consider compassion to be wisdom, or just one aspect of it?

What does someone waking up have to do with you sticking around on this website?
In what way does one "wake up"


--------------------
"Sometimes reasonable men must do unreasonable things."-Marvin Heemeyer
𝓐 𝔀𝓸𝓶𝓪𝓷, 𝓪 𝓭𝓸𝓰, 𝓪 𝔀𝓪𝓵𝓷𝓾𝓽 𝓽𝓻𝓮𝓮, 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓶𝓸𝓻𝓮 𝔂𝓸𝓾 𝓫𝓮𝓪𝓽 '𝓮𝓶, 𝓽𝓱𝓮 𝓫𝓮𝓽𝓽𝓮𝓻 𝓽𝓱𝓮𝔂 𝓫𝓮.

                                                                            𝓣𝓱𝔂 𝓦𝓲𝓵𝓵 𝓑𝓮 𝓓𝓸𝓷𝓮


Edited by Fleabag Friend (05/20/20 02:23 AM)


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Flat Earth [Re: Fleabag Friend]
    #26682483 - 05/20/20 02:57 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

We think of the key, each in his prison
thinking of the key, each confirms a prison.

T.S Eliot, The Waste Land


We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.

T.S.Eliot, Little Gidding


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Flat Earth [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26682852 - 05/20/20 08:54 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

It seems to me people most often wake up of their own accord, not being schooled by the wisdom of shroomery members, or any others for that matter, intelligent as they may be.


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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Offlinedeniskov
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Re: Flat Earth [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26703123 - 05/29/20 01:05 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

"The flat sky" LOL


Edited by deniskov (05/29/20 01:06 AM)


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