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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper


Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,378
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 11 days, 2 hours
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus 2020 [Re: pirate-blues]
#26681170 - 05/19/20 01:29 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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my understanding is simply that the kn95s with the earloops are counterfeit. all of the n95s I've seen until now have horizontal straps, one goes above the ear and one below it, both go around the entire back of the head. maybe those kn95s are used for something else but our hospital got some in an early shipment and just threw em out. but yeah it's better than nothing for sure
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pirate-blues


Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 13,697
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus 2020 [Re: morrowasted]
#26681251 - 05/19/20 02:18 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ugh that's a downer, but thanks for the input. I've been wondering why I've been seeing so many horizontal straps while my old N95s all fit around the entire back of the head.
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lifeiswhatyoumake
Sake Psychic sig


Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 16,779
Last seen: 55 minutes, 26 seconds
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus 2020 [Re: morrowasted]
#26681290 - 05/19/20 02:38 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think we should start moderating this thread more heavily. I'm tired of seeing the stupid posts about this virus being a conspiracy. It really brings this thread off topic and makes it harder for everyone to get the good information they need.
-------------------- Check out my new psytrance track "Sake Psychic": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xyEPGfiDrA ;
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Everyone is free to their opinion, regardless of how much you dislike or disagree with it.
Breaking the rules is one thing, but one has to exercise tolerance aside of that.
P.S - If you're coming to The Pub, on The Shroomery, for information you 'need' it's probably a good time to rethink your life.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,331
Loc: subtropics
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus 2020 [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#26681314 - 05/19/20 02:48 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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BOOM!
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RebeccaBlack
Screw you guys, I'm going home



Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 8,922
Last seen: 8 hours, 35 minutes
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus 2020 [Re: tyrannicalrex]
#26681369 - 05/19/20 03:17 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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+1
This is a discussion, not a news outlet lol.
Quebec is reopening!
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RJ Tubs 202



Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,030
Loc: USA
Last seen: 11 hours, 26 seconds
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus 2020 [Re: morrowasted]
#26681415 - 05/19/20 03:48 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said:
if you wear an n95 underneath an earloop mask you're protecting yourself and other people as long as you don't touch your face after touching the mask.
I've read a couple of articles about how to remove a mask in a manner that avoids the possibility of any viral contaminates getting on your hands. But I thought the purpose of a mask was to keep the mask wearer from spreading the virus? If my mask is contaminated from other people's breathing, I need to always treat my mask as if it may be contaminated - from other people. Am I missing something?
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feevers


Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc:
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus 2020 [Re: RJ Tubs 202] 1
#26681439 - 05/19/20 04:04 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
morrowasted said:
if you wear an n95 underneath an earloop mask you're protecting yourself and other people as long as you don't touch your face after touching the mask.
I've read a couple of articles about how to remove a mask in a manner that avoids the possibility of any viral contaminates getting on your hands. But I thought the purpose of a mask was to keep the mask wearer from spreading the virus? If my mask is contaminated from other people's breathing, I need to always treat my mask as if it may be contaminated - from other people. Am I missing something?
Yea if you're in a possibly contaminated environment you can assume your mask, clothes, and skin may be contaminated. Enough that a large enough amount of the virus will end up inside you and infect you? Likely not if you had an n95 and keep up on handwashing and not touching your face, but who knows really. Your clothes will likely touch other surfaces and transfer some of the contamination, shedding some of it but also resulting in more areas that you may not want to touch.
If I go to the store I'll purell my hands in my car after removing my mask, throw my clothes in the hamper and wash my hands when I get home, and leave my mask out in the sun for the rest of the day. If I didn't live with high-risk people, I'd probably be slightly less cautious about the clothes and just try to rotate masks and keep my hands clean.
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ShroomerInTheRye
Clit Commander



Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 13,037
Loc: Themyscira
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus 2020 [Re: feevers]
#26681463 - 05/19/20 04:18 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I read an article today that said the time spent in a public environment has an impact too.
Your "routine" is exactly what I do. Gotta do laundry more often is all. It's getting hot in Florida now and it's hard not to touch your face. I'm going to need to figure out some kind of system to keep the sweat out of my eyes.
--------------------
<-- Clicky Clicky
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,331
Loc: subtropics
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus 2020 [Re: ShroomerInTheRye] 1
#26681467 - 05/19/20 04:26 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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good ol'hippy headband/bandana?
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Seriously_trippin
Cosmic Guru Ganesh



Registered: 07/12/13
Posts: 14,536
Last seen: 47 minutes, 38 seconds
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Quote:
lifeiswhatyoumake said: I think we should start moderating this thread more heavily. I'm tired of seeing the stupid posts about this virus being a conspiracy. It really brings this thread off topic and makes it harder for everyone to get the good information they need.
I am too but debate is better then censorship even with this dangerous ideology. You don't change minds by censoring people.
-------------------- R.I.P Zombi3, Blue Helix Modest Mouse Zappa Slothie That Kid With The face ShLong Le Canard split_by_nine & Big Worm Forever Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many
Edited by Seriously_trippin (05/19/20 04:38 PM)
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pirate-blues


Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 13,697
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Yeah, while it's not ideal, I'd rather sift through the bullshit. As long as discourse is civil we shouldn't put ourselves in a position of deciding outright what sort of opinion is acceptable to have and share. That's a dangerous road.
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ShroomerInTheRye
Clit Commander



Registered: 01/12/12
Posts: 13,037
Loc: Themyscira
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus 2020 [Re: tyrannicalrex] 2
#26681494 - 05/19/20 04:48 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'll add a bandana and it'll complete the Tommy Chong look.

I've already got the beard, so it was just the accessory I was missing!
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<-- Clicky Clicky
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vinsue
Grand Old Fart



Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 17,953
Loc: The Garden State(NJ)
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus 2020 [Re: ShroomerInTheRye] 4
#26681516 - 05/19/20 05:01 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said: If you're coming to The Pub for information you 'need' it's probably a good time to rethink your life.
I won't even poop without first asking for the Pub's advise and permission, QFT. 
Can I poop now? . . . . . ...Please???
2 . . .
--------------------
"All mushrooms are edible; but some only once." Croatian proverb. BTW ... Have You Rated Ythans Mom Yet ?? ... ... HERE'S HOW ... (be nice) . ...
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,458
Loc: 613
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus 2020 [Re: vinsue] 2
#26681548 - 05/19/20 05:16 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
vinsue said: Can I poop now? . . . . . ...Please???
2 . . . 
Go nuts man. You deserve it.
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lifeiswhatyoumake
Sake Psychic sig


Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 16,779
Last seen: 55 minutes, 26 seconds
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Re: Viral outbreak in China - Coronavirus 2020 [Re: psi]
#26681553 - 05/19/20 05:18 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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-------------------- Check out my new psytrance track "Sake Psychic": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xyEPGfiDrA ;
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Shroomhunts
Hunter Gatherer



Registered: 05/07/18
Posts: 2,933
Loc: PA
Last seen: 2 days, 4 hours
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Re: Viral outbreak in China [Re: feevers] 2
#26681561 - 05/19/20 05:24 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I have come to the point i give zero fucks about this virus and the restrictions the government imposed. Been working thru the whole crisis watching all these scared morons hiding in their boxes all day. Im glad they have finally had to face the harsh reality that what they do for a living is pointless and completely non essential to society. Im young and probably in the best shape of my life so dont expect me to stop livng on the account of your wellbeing. All my life noone gave a fuck about my health so why should I go out of my way to protect the weak. I have no remorse for the grown men begging for food and government money to feed their families. Not a single shit to be given for these people that are hiding from tgw world because big brother said so. Being inside will make you sick it always has. Just another way to disconnect you from nature.
--------------------
      You never kno
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lifeiswhatyoumake
Sake Psychic sig


Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 16,779
Last seen: 55 minutes, 26 seconds
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Just because others haven't showed a fuck about your health doesn't mean it's okay to do the same to others. That's the most pathetic mindset ever. Have you never been taught the golden rule? Do unto others as you want done onto you.
Go think about what you and I have said and I hope you come to your senses.
-------------------- Check out my new psytrance track "Sake Psychic": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xyEPGfiDrA ;
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,333
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 59 minutes, 19 seconds
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This nation is a cult of individualism.
--------------------
NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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pirate-blues


Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 13,697
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From Sweden.
https://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/geriatrikprofessor-det-har-ar-aktiv-dodshjalp/
Quote:
English Translation (Published on 2020-05-19 at 19:06 Paris Time)
Geriatrics professor Yngve Gustafson believes that many elderly people are not treated for covid-19, but instead receive palliative medicine directly. "To routinely give older people with lung infection respiratory drugs, is active euthanasia, if not something worse", he says.
People over 70 years have been identified as a special risk group for covid-19. The infection has reached elderly homes in many parts of the country. Half of all deceased people over 70 years have lived in elderly homes (nursing homes), so-called special accommodation. A quarter had home care, according to Socialstyrelsen (Swedish National Board of Health and Welfare). Yngve Gustafson, Senior Professor in Geriatrics at Umeå University, states that many old people can live five years or more after moving into a elderly home.
"Living in an elderly home is not a diagnosis. That itself can never be a medical basis for deciding whether one should live or die. A doctor may prescribe palliative treatment over the phone. It is a violation, a discrimination and a criminal offense not to make a medical assessment of what is best for the individual patient."
Between March 23rd and May 3rd, 728 covid patients with an average age of 83 years were cared for by a geriatric ward in Stockholm region, with a survival rate of 80% - of which 79% were able to be discharged to their own accommodation (not elderly homes).
Gustafson emphasizes that basic treatment with nutrient drip, blood clot prevention, oxygen and treatment of secondary bacterial pneumonia with antibiotics thus helps the elderly. In elderly homes, there is no expertise today to provide oxygen or drop at night, he points out.
"Instead, routinely giving elderly people with lung infection morphine and midazolam, which are respiratory depressant (i.e., inducing hypoxia or asphyxia), is active euthanasia, if not something worse."
"The proportion of old people in respiratory care is lower than usual, despite the elderly being the worst affected by covid-19 and despite having talked about overcapacity", says Yngve Gustafson.
"This only indicates that we opted out of old people who could have had a chance of survival."
An anonymous doctor and researcher at Karolinska University Hospital describes to DN that the use of a "palliative cocktail" with sedative and analgesic, as he sees it, is used to a large extent on covid-19 patients both in hospitals and the elderly. He is fastidious about remaining anonymous.
"This is so sensitive. We do not talk to each other among our colleagues about this, but what I see now is that people increasingly practice euthanasia under the guise of palliative care."
According to the doctor, the standard mixture ("palliative cocktail") contains the drugs morphine, haldol and midazolam, which are also included in Socialstyrelsen's recommendations for end-of-life care.
"Many covid-19 patients are treated in this way. This is usually used for patients with terminal cancer who have a short life remaining. But when used in patients with oxygen deficiency, it definitely accelerates death for them. Because there is a ban on visitors, relatives often know nothing. Ethical issues are not discussed, but I believe this is illegal, and that some of these patients could have managed if they had been given oxygen therapy instead."
According to Professor Carl Johan Fürst at the Palliative Development Center at Lund University, not all suffer from covid-19.
"Many elderly people are so fragile that they can die possibly before it eventuates, and you can treat shortness of breath with morphine. That it would shorten a person's life is hard to say - it's a dosage issue. It is extremely tricky and difficult to evaluate."
When palliative care should be started is not an easy matter, he thinks - preferably it should be clarified how the patient or the relatives want it even before a patient becomes ill.
"When it comes to covid-19 that is so new and sudden, it becomes clear how important it is to have plans for the future. Many of the elderly are more or less demented. The visitor bans that exist now are a challenge and relatives need be prepared. Sure, you want to offer the best treatment, but there are also many elderly people who would say 'Never in life - do nothing!', who only long for good care and an end."
"The fact that family is present or not should not matter how you care for a patient."
"Demanding relatives are obviously good lawyers for the patient, and that is positive."
Carl Johan Fürst calls for ethical rounds, a forum where you would take the time to reflect on decisions and guidelines.
"You may think that you do not have time for it, but in fact it reduces stress. It is still not wartime healthcare we operate. You would want business executives to raise these issues everywhere - of course it's important."
The care of elderly people with covid-19 illness should primarily take place where they live - in elderly homes or in their own accommodation and not at emergency hospitals, according to the guidelines of Socialstyrelsen. In Stockholm region, doctors have had to change their working methods with more contact with the residents of elderly homes daily. But the attendance has not been greater than usual despite the need for health care having been increased, according to Fredrik Sandlund, Chief Manager for the region's Palliative Practice Center, who works with emergency management for local health services. He refers to an instruction from Socialstyrelsen, on the recommendation not to expand the physical medical visits (to elderly homes) during the pandemic. It states that clinical assessments, such as whether the elderly need hospital care, can be made without the doctor being present.
"It is a bit special now, since more medical services than usual were needed in the elderly homes, and assistant nurses and nurses have had to work differently. But an individual assessment is made as before covid-19 - everyone who needs it should receive hospital care", says Fredrik Sandlund.
Gunnar Akner, Associate Professor in Geriatrics, is critical to the care of the elderly divided between municipalities and regions in two parallel systems.
"If you live in a special accommodation (elderly home) in Sweden, you risk being referred to lower medical quality. Elderly people are connected to doctors who are responsible for the elderly home - and the quality of the intervention varies, depending on how much time the doctor can set aside for each individual - there are information that are sometimes not available at all."
He points out that the doctor's time procured for municipalities or private homes by the regions is usually not sufficient for regular assessments, but mainly for consultation when nurses feel the need for an urgent medical assessment.
"Now the plan is complicated by the fact that many people are simultaneously suffering from an infectious disease where the condition can become acutely worse", says Gunnar Akner.
He finds it difficult to comment on palliative efforts per se, but says:
"If it is policy-related to directly restrict the efforts on elderly people in special accommodation (elderly homes) if they are affected by covid-19, and sometimes even over the telephone, then it can be about pure discrimination. The patient can be indeed suffering from something else", says Gunnar Akner.
Jenny Fjell is a supervising physician at the Inspection for Healthcare and Welfare, Ivo, and has responded to media reporting that patients who were not considered to be admitted to hospital instead should be planned for palliative care. That's why she started the Facebook group "Everyone has the right to oxygen! (Alla har rätt till syrgas!)".
"Covid-19 in most cases is not fatal. I endeavor to urge colleagues at Ivo to take a closer look at this issue."
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