|
mi.ro.ku
Stranger
Registered: 04/13/19
Posts: 83
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
|
Does water fasting for a few days make your psilo tolerance go down faster?
#26679825 - 05/18/20 08:48 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Is there any type of fast or herbs that flush ur system and would help lower ones tolerance?
|
The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
Loc: The Primordial Mind
|
Re: Does water fasting for a few days make your psilo tolerance go down faster? [Re: mi.ro.ku]
#26679838 - 05/18/20 08:55 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Doubt it.
The amount of time it takes for nearly a full reset between trips isn’t so long that one needs to try and lower their tolerance through anything but patience. Unless you’ve been abusing psychs. Anyways, If there was such a thing, I feel like I would have heard about it by now, but I could always be wrong. I find that out of all drugs, I find psilocybin tolerance to be perfect in that it’s naturally self limiting in just the right way for me.
Why do you ask? Is there an event coming up soon or something that you plan on tripping at?
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (05/18/20 09:01 PM)
|
LSA Woodrose
Stranger

Registered: 02/05/20
Posts: 708
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
|
Re: Does water fasting for a few days make your psilo tolerance go down faster? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26679902 - 05/18/20 09:46 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
The Blind Ass said:
Why do you ask?
I'm sure its the reason any of us would ask, which is to trip more often than temporary tolerance would make feasible. I wish there were a way, too, but sadly, I really don't know of one. Other than upping the dose if you don't want to wait for your system to reset your tolerance to baseline, or close to it. I think this is one of the reasons that people like me, who have no interest in mycology, trafficking, selling them, or even being a hobbyist grow our own. So we can have an abundance to blow past tolerance in those very rare instances we want to trip, say twice in the same week. I know that's the main advantage I see from having a few mason jars filled with dry shrooms. lol If I ever decide I want to trip on, say 3 grams, and if I want the same trip intensity, let's say 2-3 days later, I know to add a gram or two to the dosing. 
mi.ro.ku, this is one of the reasons that our federal government is shit. The absurd scheduling of hallucinogens in this country have basically not only removed most religious, spiritual, or recreational uses within the law, but scientists cannot even study these compounds without jumping through a ridiculous amount of hoops, even though these substances should absolutely be studied further. What this means in more practical terms is that there is no way to answer very good questions like yours with any degree of empiricism or objective certainty. I am a doctor, and I can tell you that I have a pretty good knowledge of anatomy and physiology, as well as an understanding somewhat of how tolerances work.
In the case of mushrooms and other psychedelics, I can make a very educated guess as to why tolerance works the way it does. Meaning why do you develop an absurdly high tolerance after even one use? As well as why that tolerance comes down to baseline very fast. Drugs like heroine or other opiates, as well as sedatives, muscle relaxers, amphetamines, marijuana, and hell, even anabolic steroids, all take somewhat long term usage before they develop tolerances. Those tolerances also take a long time to go back to baseline.
Usually the reasons for tolerances are due to something called receptor sight down regulation. I will use anabolic steroids as an example, because they are the easiest to explain, NOT because they are anything like hallucinogens. All anabolic steroids are esters of the hormone testosterone. When you take any form of testosterone, even in lower therapeutic doses, after a few weeks, the receptor sites that these androgens bind to start to sort of protect themselves from over-stimulation by what your endocrine system considers to be a sort of bombardment of testosterone in your blood. So they become more and more desensitized and resistant to the action of the hormone. Not only that, but your hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis will then lower production of serum testosterone through several other hormones in the brain and endocrine system. So its like a double whammy. Not only are your androgenic receptor sites desensitized to testosterone, but there is now less of it produced. Which, of course sucks balls when an athlete comes off his cycle. The same thing happens with people whose doctors prescribe thyroid hormones for weight loss.
This is a long way of getting to the fact that all hallucinogens are basically chemicals that mimic serotonin, a neurotransmitter in the central nervous system responsible for a lot of different functions. It increases mood, has effect on libido, and many other systems. When you take a hallucinogen like mushrooms, the active ingredients basically bombard the serotonergic receptors. At least this is the theory, with some pretty strong evidence. For some reason, probably because these drugs seriously and heavily target these serotonergic receptors, your central nervous system basically fights back, and decreases receptor sight sensitivity. Again, a lot of this is not entirely proved or understood because hallucinogens are bizarrely scheduled. But my educated guess is that for some reason, because serotonin is such an important neurotransmitter, and because its balance in the brain and brain stem are so meticulously regulated, tripping causes your brain and its serotonergic receptors to seriously down regulate very, very fast. And because your nervous system requires the action of serotonin so much, you bounce back from tolerance very quickly.
Again, though, this is all an educated hypothesis, and I can't prove ANY of it empirically. To further speculate, I believe that the reason you can't use fasting to increase your trip frequency and blow past tolerance, is because an empty GI tract probably has very little effect on either the serotonergic receptors in the brain or in serotonin production. The only things I believe that fasting will do is to help alleviate or prevent vasoconstriction and nausea. I literally ALWAYS fast before a trip. Also, it may initially feel like fasting helps tolerance, but I believe that's only because with an empty stomach, and no food at least in your upper GI tract, the digestion of the hallucinogen in question is much faster and can hit you harder in the come up phase of your trip.
Think about why we're admonished not to drink on an empty stomach. Because the alcohol enters the bloodstream faster when you drink before eating a meal.
|
The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
Loc: The Primordial Mind
|
Re: Does water fasting for a few days make your psilo tolerance go down faster? [Re: LSA Woodrose]
#26679913 - 05/18/20 09:54 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Short answer ( )
Newton’s third law can elucidate the gist of the mechanics behind the phenomena of tolerance.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
|
LSA Woodrose
Stranger

Registered: 02/05/20
Posts: 708
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
|
Re: Does water fasting for a few days make your psilo tolerance go down faster? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26679922 - 05/18/20 10:00 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Short answer ( )
Newton’s third law can elucidate the gist of the mechanics behind the phenomena of tolerance.
lol That doesn't actually explain anything, just because you likened tripping to the rubber bands you pull back on when using a slingshot. If only it were that simple.
|
The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
Loc: The Primordial Mind
|
Re: Does water fasting for a few days make your psilo tolerance go down faster? [Re: LSA Woodrose]
#26679926 - 05/18/20 10:01 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Try again, with some imagination. It’ll help. It’s not meant to be a literal explanation
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
|
LSA Woodrose
Stranger

Registered: 02/05/20
Posts: 708
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
|
Re: Does water fasting for a few days make your psilo tolerance go down faster? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26679933 - 05/18/20 10:04 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: Try again, with some imagination. It’ll help. It’s not meant to be a literal explanation 
Way ahead of you. My original answer was very detailed, even imaginative. I just don't like cutesy, simplistic answers that really aren't actual answers. All you did was speak in a metaphor and pretend you were actually giving a real answer.
|
The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
Loc: The Primordial Mind
|
Re: Does water fasting for a few days make your psilo tolerance go down faster? [Re: LSA Woodrose]
#26679940 - 05/18/20 10:09 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
It was more a nod and a jest to and for you, since you had already explained the gist of it. Hence the wink.
Easy fella. You did good.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
|
LSA Woodrose
Stranger

Registered: 02/05/20
Posts: 708
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
|
Re: Does water fasting for a few days make your psilo tolerance go down faster? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26679945 - 05/18/20 10:11 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
The Blind Ass said: It was more a nod and a jest to and for you, since you had already explained the gist of it. Hence the wink.
Easy fella. You did good.
Ahh!! See, I knew that and was trying to bait you into another jibe at me. I had my response all queued up, too. Shit, you're no fun. Here was what I was going to post if you had taken another run at me.
In the words of the immortal Jack Nicholson: "People who talk in metaphors ought to shampoo my crotch."
You make me sad inside.
|
The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
Loc: The Primordial Mind
|
Re: Does water fasting for a few days make your psilo tolerance go down faster? [Re: LSA Woodrose]
#26679962 - 05/18/20 10:19 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
choice vid ( keep it for the next occasion! )
It’s All good, I accidentally mistook you for Dj Ed, who I have a bit more rapport with throughout Psych Exp, on account of the way the both of you have similarly color coded usernames. He would he gotten the jest instantly 
|
LSA Woodrose
Stranger

Registered: 02/05/20
Posts: 708
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
|
Re: Does water fasting for a few days make your psilo tolerance go down faster? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26679970 - 05/18/20 10:22 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
The Blind Ass said:
choice vid ( keep it for the next occasion! )
It’s All good, I accidentally mistake you for Dj Ed who I have a bit more rapport with throughout Psych Exp, on account of the way you have both similarly color coded usernames. He would he gotten the jest instantly

No, I got the jest. Also, I tend to have a little diarrhea of the typing fingers, so I have learned to try and be good-natured about it when people in forums call me on that. I really was just messing with you back.
|
The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
Loc: The Primordial Mind
|
Re: Does water fasting for a few days make your psilo tolerance go down faster? [Re: LSA Woodrose] 1
#26679984 - 05/18/20 10:29 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Yeah well... *shakes fist*
I’ll get you next time
But in all serious I appreciate the broader in depth explanation, I am sometimes too busy or lazy to respond to every thread on Psych Exp that way, but I usually try too if no one else has already, so I’m glad your keeping it real with the good info, as it can sometimes play a crucial role for the greater good in people’s lives when we do 
Alright, Ive jacked OPs thread enough...
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
|
DJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer


Registered: 09/04/16
Posts: 2,326
Loc: UK
Last seen: 8 hours, 24 seconds
|
Re: Does water fasting for a few days make your psilo tolerance go down faster? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26680090 - 05/19/20 12:00 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
I can hear y’all
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

|
mi.ro.ku
Stranger
Registered: 04/13/19
Posts: 83
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
|
Re: Does water fasting for a few days make your psilo tolerance go down faster? [Re: LSA Woodrose]
#26681780 - 05/19/20 07:50 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
LSA Woodrose said:
Quote:
The Blind Ass said:
Why do you ask?
I'm sure its the reason any of us would ask, which is to trip more often than temporary tolerance would make feasible. I wish there were a way, too, but sadly, I really don't know of one. Other than upping the dose if you don't want to wait for your system to reset your tolerance to baseline, or close to it. I think this is one of the reasons that people like me, who have no interest in mycology, trafficking, selling them, or even being a hobbyist grow our own. So we can have an abundance to blow past tolerance in those very rare instances we want to trip, say twice in the same week. I know that's the main advantage I see from having a few mason jars filled with dry shrooms. lol If I ever decide I want to trip on, say 3 grams, and if I want the same trip intensity, let's say 2-3 days later, I know to add a gram or two to the dosing. 
mi.ro.ku, this is one of the reasons that our federal government is shit. The absurd scheduling of hallucinogens in this country have basically not only removed most religious, spiritual, or recreational uses within the law, but scientists cannot even study these compounds without jumping through a ridiculous amount of hoops, even though these substances should absolutely be studied further. What this means in more practical terms is that there is no way to answer very good questions like yours with any degree of empiricism or objective certainty. I am a doctor, and I can tell you that I have a pretty good knowledge of anatomy and physiology, as well as an understanding somewhat of how tolerances work.
In the case of mushrooms and other psychedelics, I can make a very educated guess as to why tolerance works the way it does. Meaning why do you develop an absurdly high tolerance after even one use? As well as why that tolerance comes down to baseline very fast. Drugs like heroine or other opiates, as well as sedatives, muscle relaxers, amphetamines, marijuana, and hell, even anabolic steroids, all take somewhat long term usage before they develop tolerances. Those tolerances also take a long time to go back to baseline.
Usually the reasons for tolerances are due to something called receptor sight down regulation. I will use anabolic steroids as an example, because they are the easiest to explain, NOT because they are anything like hallucinogens. All anabolic steroids are esters of the hormone testosterone. When you take any form of testosterone, even in lower therapeutic doses, after a few weeks, the receptor sites that these androgens bind to start to sort of protect themselves from over-stimulation by what your endocrine system considers to be a sort of bombardment of testosterone in your blood. So they become more and more desensitized and resistant to the action of the hormone. Not only that, but your hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis will then lower production of serum testosterone through several other hormones in the brain and endocrine system. So its like a double whammy. Not only are your androgenic receptor sites desensitized to testosterone, but there is now less of it produced. Which, of course sucks balls when an athlete comes off his cycle. The same thing happens with people whose doctors prescribe thyroid hormones for weight loss.
This is a long way of getting to the fact that all hallucinogens are basically chemicals that mimic serotonin, a neurotransmitter in the central nervous system responsible for a lot of different functions. It increases mood, has effect on libido, and many other systems. When you take a hallucinogen like mushrooms, the active ingredients basically bombard the serotonergic receptors. At least this is the theory, with some pretty strong evidence. For some reason, probably because these drugs seriously and heavily target these serotonergic receptors, your central nervous system basically fights back, and decreases receptor sight sensitivity. Again, a lot of this is not entirely proved or understood because hallucinogens are bizarrely scheduled. But my educated guess is that for some reason, because serotonin is such an important neurotransmitter, and because its balance in the brain and brain stem are so meticulously regulated, tripping causes your brain and its serotonergic receptors to seriously down regulate very, very fast. And because your nervous system requires the action of serotonin so much, you bounce back from tolerance very quickly.
Again, though, this is all an educated hypothesis, and I can't prove ANY of it empirically. To further speculate, I believe that the reason you can't use fasting to increase your trip frequency and blow past tolerance, is because an empty GI tract probably has very little effect on either the serotonergic receptors in the brain or in serotonin production. The only things I believe that fasting will do is to help alleviate or prevent vasoconstriction and nausea. I literally ALWAYS fast before a trip. Also, it may initially feel like fasting helps tolerance, but I believe that's only because with an empty stomach, and no food at least in your upper GI tract, the digestion of the hallucinogen in question is much faster and can hit you harder in the come up phase of your trip.
Think about why we're admonished not to drink on an empty stomach. Because the alcohol enters the bloodstream faster when you drink before eating a meal.
I do agree regarding the gi tract but based on that i generally have a high tolerance for all medicine, and when ive water fasted for a full day or more before and then taken them theyve been stronger, than just fasting for a few hours before. So i just wondered if fasting longer for a few days, would just generally flush ones system bc your only drinking water, so your body focusing more on eliminating...
|
meanoldman
old guy
Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 96
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
|
Re: Does water fasting for a few days make your psilo tolerance go down faster? [Re: mi.ro.ku]
#26681939 - 05/19/20 09:12 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Twice a week is about as often as you can get full effects from a good dose. Unaware of anyway to reduce that.
Recently been playing with tiny doses, .6-.7g those are fun every other day, no loss of effect. It's pretty mild, just a weekday "I still have to get up at 5am and go to work" dose.
|
LSA Woodrose
Stranger

Registered: 02/05/20
Posts: 708
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
|
Re: Does water fasting for a few days make your psilo tolerance go down faster? [Re: mi.ro.ku]
#26682586 - 05/20/20 05:34 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
meanoldman said: Twice a week is about as often as you can get full effects from a good dose. Unaware of anyway to reduce that.
Twice a week? Really? Don't get me wrong, you may be right, but my understanding is that once a week, at most, is the magic bullet to get the most out of a dose. I found that when I waited only 6 days, because I tripped on a Sunday then the following Saturday, that I felt a slight reduction in effects for the same dose. Of course, there are a myriad of reasons why a trip may not be as heavy. In short, I hope you're right. Anyone else have experience tripping twice a week?
So little is known about hallucinogens, so I won't condescend to say you're wrong or argue the point, since maybe twice a week is all right to avoid tolerance? I have just never heard this before.
Quote:
mi.ro.ku said: I do agree regarding the gi tract but based on that i generally have a high tolerance for all medicine, and when ive water fasted for a full day or more before and then taken them theyve been stronger, than just fasting for a few hours before. So i just wondered if fasting longer for a few days, would just generally flush ones system bc your only drinking water, so your body focusing more on eliminating...
Don't get me wrong, I am a HUGE proponent of fasting. I also have found higher effects with a completely empty GI, but I couldn't absolutely point to whether it was just the come up that was higher or the whole trip. Either way, not being sure one way or the other, I ALWAYS fast for a miniumum of 8-12 hours before I trip. I would be cautious about fasting into several days before tripping. That may be a tad too long, because in the end, your body does need food and an intake of energy. Not saying your idea is wrong, I'm just suggesting a little caution when fasting more than a half day or full day then the first thing you introduce to your system is a powerful hallucinogen. While I have no science to refute your idea, just be careful since there is often a fine line between fasting and starving yourself.
|
SodomAndGomorraE81
Ra

Registered: 05/15/20
Posts: 42
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
|
Re: Does water fasting for a few days make your psilo tolerance go down faster? [Re: LSA Woodrose]
#26682587 - 05/20/20 05:35 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
ruthiehenlinnwillneverdiesheflys ★*
|
SodomAndGomorraE81
Ra

Registered: 05/15/20
Posts: 42
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
|
Re: Does water fasting for a few days make your psilo tolerance go down faster? [Re: SodomAndGomorraE81]
#26682588 - 05/20/20 05:39 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
nobidy ndfrtx ilikeu
|
meanoldman
old guy
Registered: 06/14/04
Posts: 96
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
|
Re: Does water fasting for a few days make your psilo tolerance go down faster? [Re: LSA Woodrose]
#26683346 - 05/20/20 01:16 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
LSA Woodrose said: Twice a week? Really? Don't get me wrong, you may be right, but my understanding is that once a week, at most, is the magic bullet to get the most out of a dose. I found that when I waited only 6 days, because I tripped on a Sunday then the following Saturday, that I felt a slight reduction in effects for the same dose. Of course, there are a myriad of reasons why a trip may not be as heavy. In short, I hope you're right. Anyone else have experience tripping twice a week?
So little is known about hallucinogens, so I won't condescend to say you're wrong or argue the point, since maybe twice a week is all right to avoid tolerance? I have just never heard this before.
Getting "the most out of a dose" is pretty subjective. Doing it more than a few times a year takes some of the spiritual magic out of it, even though the other effects are all there.
There is no tolerance if you wait three days since the last trip. I spent a few years doing way too many hallucinogens, that was my regular schedule.
If you're curious, just try it a few times, what's the worst that would happen?
|
SodomAndGomorraE81
Ra

Registered: 05/15/20
Posts: 42
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
|
Re: Does water fasting for a few days make your psilo tolerance go down faster? [Re: meanoldman]
#26683447 - 05/20/20 02:06 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
isssa
And on the eigth day of that week Clinton was bilking a marriott for langley peep portfolios onyxly.
Is your name padre sanchez the minor tetrarch of pleaidies nay sir i welcome you to ibiza
|
|