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Offlineplonbir
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Not colonized spots
    #26677182 - 05/17/20 04:02 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Hi everyone! First time growing. I have 5 jars 2 of them are fully colonized and three has not colonized spots. Looks like vermiculite. Is it contamination's? if not what should i do? Its been a month.




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OfflineMugnath
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: plonbir]
    #26677192 - 05/17/20 04:07 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

They've looked the same for awhile? Leave them upright for about a week after full colonization. You can also wait until you see pins form inside.


Edited by Mugnath (05/17/20 04:17 PM)


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Invisiblemushhead
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: Mugnath]
    #26677198 - 05/17/20 04:11 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

It looks like the myc is clearly avoiding those spots, possibly bacterial? If so don't throw them out, it'll just take a bit longer to colonize. as long as it doesn't mold out on you I'd use em.


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Offlineplonbir
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: Mugnath]
    #26677642 - 05/17/20 08:07 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mugnath said:
They've looked the same for awhile?



Yes. I had a pictures from a week ago and everything is the same.


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Offlinededa_mraz
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: plonbir]
    #26677681 - 05/17/20 08:29 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I had the same thing with two PF tek jars. I waited until they fully colonized it was 3 weeks longer than the other cakes. One had the best yield of ten cakes and the other the worst. I hope it's the best for you.

My theory is that it's two mycelial strains that are too polite and want to leave room for the other strain, or they can't decide, or they don't like each other. I'm only speculating.


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Offlineplonbir
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: deda_mraz]
    #26677767 - 05/17/20 09:21 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

deda_mraz said:
I had the same thing with two PF tek jars. I waited until they fully colonized it was 3 weeks longer than the other cakes. One had the best yield of ten cakes and the other the worst.




Did u start fruiting them all together?


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Offlinepoisoned
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: plonbir]
    #26678144 - 05/18/20 04:02 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

You can always birth them and scrub away uncolonized parts.


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Onlinerumfor69
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: poisoned] * 1
    #26678172 - 05/18/20 04:30 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

:whathesaid:
That myce looks super nice. If they have already been sitting not growing
for a week and there's nothing blocking the holes on those jars you're
probably good to go with this option.


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Offlinededa_mraz
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: plonbir]
    #26678583 - 05/18/20 09:45 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

No. I inoculated 10 jars at the same time. 8 of them colonized fully at the same time and I put these 8 into the fruiting chamber (FC).

I left the two outlier cakes in the jars and waited until they more or less fully colonized before putting them into the FC.

If it's your first grow: There are two different recommendations on when to birth the cakes, that I know of. One stratery A is one week after they fully colonize. The other strategy B is to wait for full colonization+1 week and put them into indirect light and wait until they start pinning in the jars.

My first grow I tried A and I had to wait two weeks or so after birthing before I saw pins. That was quite frustrating for me and for the cakes. They started to bruise (blue spots on them, which I thought was mold but it wasn't), probably too low humidity.
This time I'll try B. I hope it will save me and the cakes some headaches. I think they are happier in the jars, less contamination and higher humidity.


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Offlinepoisoned
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: deda_mraz]
    #26678860 - 05/18/20 12:04 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Your jars will appreciate light ever since they germinate. Also, contaminants don't matter after full colonization.


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Offlinededa_mraz
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: poisoned]
    #26679502 - 05/18/20 05:58 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Mycelium needs light only as a trigger and direction indication on where to shoot out mushrooms. Mycelium doesn't photosynthesize.

Contamination is less of a matter after full colonization that's true, the mycelium is strong enough to be put into a fruiting chamber. But after two flushes the mycelium gets weaker. The cleaner one works the longer the cakes survive -> more flushes.


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Invisiblemushhead
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: deda_mraz]
    #26679514 - 05/18/20 06:02 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

deda_mraz said:
Mycelium needs light only as a trigger and direction indication on where to shoot out mushrooms. Mycelium doesn't photosynthesize.

Contamination is less of a matter after full colonization that's true, the mycelium is strong enough to be put into a fruiting chamber. But after two flushes the mycelium gets weaker. The cleaner one works the longer the cakes survive -> more flushes.



Mushrooms like mammals have a circadian rhythm.

Mushrooms derive energy from light.

Also the mushroom will fruit as long as there are enough nutrients for it to use for fruiting..
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
That is absolutely wrong.  Mushrooms don't use light for direction of growth.  Mushrooms grown in total darkness will still grow straight up, opposite gravity.

Mushrooms turn towards the light because they are using it as a source of energy.  That's why mushrooms grown with the proper amount and spectrum of light grow much larger and heavier than mushrooms grown with insufficient light.  It's also why light is just as important during the growth phase as it is during the pinning stage.
RR




EDIT: Humans don't photosynthesize and don't need the sun, but we sure do derive energy from it.


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Edited by mushhead (05/18/20 06:08 PM)


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Offlinededa_mraz
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: mushhead]
    #26679606 - 05/18/20 06:43 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

From wikipedia:
"... While sunlight provides an energy source for plants, mushrooms derive all of their energy and growth materials from their growth medium, through biochemical decomposition processes. This does not mean that light is an irrelevant requirement, since some fungi use light as a signal for fruiting..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fungiculture


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Invisiblemushhead
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: deda_mraz]
    #26679612 - 05/18/20 06:46 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

deda_mraz said:
From wikipedia:
"... While sunlight provides an energy source for plants, mushrooms derive all of their energy and growth materials from their growth medium, through biochemical decomposition processes. This does not mean that light is an irrelevant requirement, since some fungi use light as a signal for fruiting..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fungiculture



Lol wikipedia.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/13262598

Trust RR my friend.


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Onlinerumfor69
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: mushhead] * 1
    #26679638 - 05/18/20 06:57 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Follow the Rabbit, trust in him should you.


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Offlinepoisoned
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: rumfor69]
    #26680193 - 05/19/20 02:36 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Sorry, but even RR is wrong sometimes. I'd love to see the biochemistry behind this energy obtaining process.

And no, we don't get any energy from sunlight. It helps with synthesis of vitamin D tho. In ourselves and in mushrooms, but that's not the light from 6500K spectrum.


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OfflinePMBastian
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: poisoned]
    #26680206 - 05/19/20 02:50 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I don't think anyone in here means fungi or humans derive energi from the sun in a direct metabolic way, like plants do with photosynthesis. But just compare your own mood/energy levels on a grey day with that of a sunny and nice day, and the results will be clear.

Ymmv ofc, gut generally I think most people are like me and are happier and more energetic when they get some of that good ol sunshine.


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InvisibleModularMind
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: poisoned]
    #26680216 - 05/19/20 03:04 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

poisoned said:
Sorry, but even RR is wrong sometimes. I'd love to see the biochemistry behind this energy.




Thermal energy?


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Offlinepoisoned
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: ModularMind]
    #26680239 - 05/19/20 03:35 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

PMBastian said:
I don't think anyone in here means fungi or humans derive energi from the sun in a direct metabolic way, like plants do with photosynthesis. But just compare your own mood/energy levels on a grey day with that of a sunny and nice day, and the results will be clear.

Ymmv ofc, gut generally I think most people are like me and are happier and more energetic when they get some of that good ol sunshine.



I know what you're saying, but we're talking biology here and energy is a clearly defined thing in science.

Quote:

ModularMind said:
Quote:

poisoned said:
Sorry, but even RR is wrong sometimes. I'd love to see the biochemistry behind this energy.




Thermal energy?



Since we're warm blooded animals, our bodies are capable of managing that on their own. And usually, recommended spectrum for mushrooms is 6500K which won't give you much in terms of thermal energy.


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InvisibleModularMind
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: poisoned]
    #26680250 - 05/19/20 03:49 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

That’s a bulb that’s recommended for indoor cultivation and it does put off heat.
Humans owe quite a bit to the heat and the rays of the sun.


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InvisibleApples in Mono
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: ModularMind]
    #26680260 - 05/19/20 03:59 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ModularMind said:
Quote:

poisoned said:
Sorry, but even RR is wrong sometimes. I'd love to see the biochemistry behind this energy.




Thermal energy?




Exposure to thermal energy doesn't necessarily require exposure to light.

But humans and mushrooms can't directly convert either into usable energy. They help us to conserve energy or to convert nutrients already within our bodies into more useful forms, but we require nutrients for usable energy


Edited by Apples in Mono (05/19/20 04:02 AM)


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InvisibleModularMind
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: Apples in Mono]
    #26680271 - 05/19/20 04:08 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Apples in Mono said:
Quote:

ModularMind said:
Quote:

poisoned said:
Sorry, but even RR is wrong sometimes. I'd love to see the biochemistry behind this energy.




Thermal energy?




Exposure to thermal energy doesn't necessarily require exposure to light.

But humans and mushrooms can't directly convert either into usable energy. They help us to conserve energy or to convert nutrients already within our bodies into more useful forms, but we require nutrients for usable energy




And a shoebox in the freezer won’t fruit.
Where do the nutrients you require ultimately stem from?


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InvisibleApples in Mono
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: ModularMind]
    #26680280 - 05/19/20 04:19 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ModularMind said:
Quote:

Apples in Mono said:
Quote:

ModularMind said:
Quote:

poisoned said:
Sorry, but even RR is wrong sometimes. I'd love to see the biochemistry behind this energy.




Thermal energy?




Exposure to thermal energy doesn't necessarily require exposure to light.

But humans and mushrooms can't directly convert either into usable energy. They help us to conserve energy or to convert nutrients already within our bodies into more useful forms, but we require nutrients for usable energy




And a shoebox in the freezer won’t fruit.
Where do the nutrients you require ultimately stem from?




Thermal shoebox Tek:

First you're gonna need an earth, then a sun to shine on it.

Yes,of course any earthly organism ultimately requires that the sun exists, and no, of course a shoebox won't fruit in a freezer. That doesn't mean mushrooms convert light into usable energy


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Offlinepoisoned
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: ModularMind]
    #26680284 - 05/19/20 04:20 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, in the end, 99% of life runs on the sun. I don't know how it's relevant to discussion here. Or thermal energy when we're talking about how light affects mushrooms.


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InvisibleModularMind
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: mushhead]
    #26680300 - 05/19/20 04:39 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Who suggested “converting light to energy”?
Light is energy.
Using light as a source of energy is done everywhere in many ways.


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Offlinepoisoned
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: ModularMind]
    #26680310 - 05/19/20 04:45 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Usable energy. Not energy. You know, something that your body can store and then use to power your muscles or brains.

Let's stop hijacking this thread now.


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InvisibleApples in Mono
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: ModularMind]
    #26680313 - 05/19/20 04:47 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ModularMind said:
Who suggested “converting light to energy”?
Light is energy.
Using light as a source of energy is done everywhere in many ways.




*Usable energy. As in energy that can be used to drive cell processes. Humans and mushrooms can't use photons for cellular respiration


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InvisibleModularMind
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: Apples in Mono]
    #26680317 - 05/19/20 04:52 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

That’s not the point you refuted from that RR quote.

He said they are “using it as a source of energy”

You said “RR is wrong”

:shrug:


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InvisibleModularMind
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: Apples in Mono]
    #26680318 - 05/19/20 04:55 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Apples in Mono said:
Quote:

ModularMind said:
Who suggested “converting light to energy”?
Light is energy.
Using light as a source of energy is done everywhere in many ways.




*Usable energy. As in energy that can be used to drive cell processes. Humans and mushrooms can't use photons for cellular respiration




No one suggested they did.


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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: plonbir]
    #26680324 - 05/19/20 04:59 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I would leave them in the jar until they invitro pin or fully colonize.


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Invisiblemushhead
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: ModularMind]
    #26680328 - 05/19/20 05:01 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ModularMind said:
Quote:

Apples in Mono said:
Quote:

ModularMind said:
Who suggested “converting light to energy”?
Light is energy.
Using light as a source of energy is done everywhere in many ways.




*Usable energy. As in energy that can be used to drive cell processes. Humans and mushrooms can't use photons for cellular respiration




No one suggested they did.



Humans absorb heat and process vitamin D using the suns rays.
It has an effect on our mood and skin color. It can even damage us if we absorb to much light energy by epidermal dysplasia.
So yes in many ways humans use the suns energies.
I believe many fungus/mold work the same way.
WE don't need it persay, THEY don't need it persay, and we all love having it.


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InvisibleModularMind
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: mushhead]
    #26680332 - 05/19/20 05:04 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

:whathesaid:


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Offlinepoisoned
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: mushhead]
    #26680346 - 05/19/20 05:13 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

mushhead said:
Quote:

ModularMind said:
Quote:

Apples in Mono said:
Quote:

ModularMind said:
Who suggested “converting light to energy”?
Light is energy.
Using light as a source of energy is done everywhere in many ways.




*Usable energy. As in energy that can be used to drive cell processes. Humans and mushrooms can't use photons for cellular respiration




No one suggested they did.



Humans absorb heat and process vitamin D using the suns rays.
It has an effect on our mood and skin color. It can even damage us if we absorb to much light energy by epidermal dysplasia.
So yes in many ways humans use the suns energies.
I believe many fungus/mold work the same way.
WE don't need it persay, THEY don't need it persay, and we all love having it.




The point is that we're not using it to get energy.

Fiber can also be a source of energy and our bodies love having it. But it's not because we use it as a source of energy.

And yes, mushrooms also synthesise vitamin D using sunlight.


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Edited by poisoned (05/19/20 05:16 AM)


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InvisibleModularMind
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: poisoned]
    #26680352 - 05/19/20 05:18 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

But we do better for it, which is where you said RR was wrong, with regard to mushrooms and light.


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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: ModularMind]
    #26680379 - 05/19/20 05:31 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Of course we do, but neither we or mushrooms get any useful energy from it. Just like the fiber example.


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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: ModularMind] * 1
    #26680383 - 05/19/20 05:33 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

So back to the OP, what was the advise here? Cause you all got lost on a RR right or wrong thread.

I imagine that your arguing semantics and light is beneficial to both mushrooms and humans. Who care why it is beneficial. Just put your jars in a light cycle 12/12 from the point of Inoculation through fruiting.


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InvisibleApples in Mono
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: mushhead]
    #26680422 - 05/19/20 05:59 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

mushhead said:
Quote:

ModularMind said:
Quote:

Apples in Mono said:
Quote:

ModularMind said:
Who suggested “converting light to energy”?
Light is energy.
Using light as a source of energy is done everywhere in many ways.




*Usable energy. As in energy that can be used to drive cell processes. Humans and mushrooms can't use photons for cellular respiration




No one suggested they did.



Humans absorb heat and process vitamin D using the suns rays.
It has an effect on our mood and skin color. It can even damage us if we absorb to much light energy by epidermal dysplasia.
So yes in many ways humans use the suns energies.
I believe many fungus/mold work the same way.
WE don't need it persay, THEY don't need it persay, and we all love having it.





That's the sunlight converting nutrients in our skin into a more useful form. Not our skin getting nutrients from the sunlight. They're already in our skin to begin with


Edited by Apples in Mono (05/19/20 06:02 AM)


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OfflineMugnath
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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: Sockadin]
    #26681005 - 05/19/20 12:16 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I agree with Sockadin, leave them until you see in vitro pinning.

If you can leave them in a room with ambient light, go for it. If you don't have that option, you can grow and pin in vitro in a completely dark room, it will work (I'm not saying this is the healthiest option for your myc, just that it will work).


Edited by Mugnath (05/19/20 12:47 PM)


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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: Sockadin]
    #26682229 - 05/19/20 11:48 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Mycelium grows in darkness. I keep my PF tek jars and grain and Agar in darkness after inoculation and it colonizes. That's an experimental proof that mycelium does not need light before fruiting. Try it.

Another proof is when a cheese gets moldy in the fridge. There is no light in the fridge either.

We can argue about the reason, but I hope we can agree that mycelium needs light to develop fruit bodies (mushrooms). I had my PF tek cakes on a 30W blue LED lamp for 1 hour a day, and I got nice flushes. It didn't matter what time of day. In this study they keep the light on for 24hrs a day:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23610542/
I read somewhere that they should have light for at least 1 hour a day.


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Re: Not colonized spots [Re: deda_mraz]
    #26682269 - 05/20/20 12:21 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

deda_mraz said:
Mycelium grows in darkness. I keep my PF tek jars and grain and Agar in darkness after inoculation and it colonizes. That's an experimental proof that mycelium does not need light before fruiting. Try it.

Another proof is when a cheese gets moldy in the fridge. There is no light in the fridge either.

We can argue about the reason, but I hope we can agree that mycelium needs light to develop fruit bodies (mushrooms).



You don't need to do experiments for that. 15 years ago, people colonised in complete darkness because they taught light will trigger early pinning.

Fruit bodies will also grow in complete darkness.

But it's beneficial in all phases to get them some light.


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Loc: Siberia
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: Not colonized spots [Re: poisoned]
    #26682768 - 05/20/20 07:48 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

poisoned said:

Fruit bodies will also grow in complete darkness.

But it's beneficial in all phases to get them some light.




Sorry you're right, they do develop fruit bodies in darkness. However they will be deformed and the chemical composition is different. You can also see that in this nice study:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23610542/


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Invisiblemushhead
Potato Devourer
I'm a teapot


Registered: 08/22/14
Posts: 2,215
Loc: Dimension X-124
Re: Not colonized spots [Re: deda_mraz]
    #26682807 - 05/20/20 08:18 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

:drunkaf::whathesaid:


--------------------
Meditation Principles

Silence: Giving you room to listen / Stillness: Giving you room to feel / Spaciousness: Just giving you room


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OfflineMugnath
Male

Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 733
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 8 months, 16 days
Re: Not colonized spots [Re: deda_mraz]
    #26682987 - 05/20/20 10:12 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

deda_mraz said:
Quote:

poisoned said:

Fruit bodies will also grow in complete darkness.

But it's beneficial in all phases to get them some light.




Sorry you're right, they do develop fruit bodies in darkness. However they will be deformed and the chemical composition is different. You can also see that in this nice study:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23610542/




Interesting. I'd like to see a study done with P Cubensis in the same manner. I'd be interested in a complete darkness group in that study as well, this revolved around colored diode and affects.


Edited by Mugnath (05/20/20 10:18 AM)


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Offlinededa_mraz
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/20
Posts: 35
Loc: Siberia
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
Re: Not colonized spots [Re: Mugnath]
    #26683071 - 05/20/20 11:03 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Mugnath said:
Interesting. I'd like to see a study done with P Cubensis in the same manner. I'd be interested in a complete darkness group in that study as well, this revolved around colored diode and affects.




Yeah that would be great. Someone should apply for a government research grant for that study :smile:


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