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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26670359 - 05/14/20 10:32 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Also,  “ Deep in the human unconscious is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense, But the real universe is always one step beyond logic." - Dune.

Although logic is highly useful in many ways, it has its limits,  it is after all, a man made human tool.


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Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Tantrika] * 1
    #26670363 - 05/14/20 10:35 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:
You're being told to move your house to higher ground before the flood waters take you away
and you're standing there demanding that people tell you how to stop the tides from rising



Good analogy.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26670510 - 05/14/20 12:09 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

:whathesaid:


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #26670608 - 05/14/20 12:57 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

You have gotten plenty of good advice and understanding in this thread among which to seek professional help to a very likely mental health problem. It is not a normal result of reading about solipsism to get terrified of it, I don't think so at least. Maybe you shoul re-read through this thread a bit, look for the perspectives that you feel are needed.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #26670655 - 05/14/20 01:22 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:

I’m losing my grip on reality and the will to live and I keep trying to correct everyone about solipsism and why it’s terrifying for me and why life would be worthless if it were true.




You seem quite passionate about things. Maybe consider loosening your grip?


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OfflinePsion
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Re: What is Love? [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #26670786 - 05/14/20 02:53 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

"i'm not crazy, the rest of the world is crazy!" while arguing that solipsism is the simplest argument due to occam's razor. :lol:

i keep misspelling that damn word because even the spelling of it is crazy. thank the gods for spellchecker.

you keep trying to prove an unprovable argument, just like people who try to prove the existence of god in the context of science. it's just... not gonna happen. it's the wrong tool for the job. some things you just gotta learn to let go and move on from.

and don't even think you can be handed all the answers in this one thread and go "oh, i get it now! :epiphany: :cosmic elucidation: life does NOT work that way. a lot of growth happens in different ways. for instance, learning to play the piano - the first step to learning to play isn't even getting the instructor to teach you - it's waiting. growing old enough to even reach the keys. thats right, some growth simply is a waiting game, with no effort involved, just a lot of time.

brains take time to reach full development and maturity, with various major stages of growth at childhood, teenage years, and young adulthood, with full maturity reaching around the mid 20s to early 30s. so don't be surprised if there's things you don't "get" yet. it may be that your brain simply lacks the circuitry to grasp it currently.

there's also growth that occurs from seemingly unrelated subjects. to learn to play the piano requires a grasp of symbolism (understanding that notes REPRESENT something else), math (rhythm, frequencies), physical development (to play the actual keys), language (to understand the instructors directions), and so forth. when im telling you to read the damn drizzt books im not telling you to put this off - i'm telling you this because these seemingly unrelated books actually can put you in his shoes and help give you ideas for your own life. books are a very, VERY important tool for helping you put a perspective in your own self because you are temporarily putting yourself in another persons shoes, seeing from another angle - and in doing so, being able to see your own life from another person's perspective. this is a major, MAJOR advantage for analyzing any problems in your life and finding potential solutions.

then of course, there's the direct growth of instruction - kind of what we're doing now, instructing you. however, it seems you lack much of the other kinds of growth needed to make use of what we're telling you. that's fine - it's not like the knowledge is going anywhere. you can always return to this later and reflect again - i often read old books again years later and find new insights that i never found the first time!

and of course, there's the growth of direct practice - practice what you preach! you never grow if you don't actually put in actual effort, and likewise you won't outgrow this fear of being the only being if you don't interact with other beings you fear are just phantasms. just like arachnophobia - people who have it first have to slowly get introduced to pictures of spiders from a distance, then as they slowly get acclimated, closer pictures of spiders, then actual spiders from a distance, and so forth, never more than they're slightly uncomfortable with. until they're actually holding a tarantula in their hands. get out of your comfort zone slightly with interacting with those "figments" of yours. not a ton, just slightly. work your way up as you get used to it, until you're fairly comfortable with day to day interactions.

I used to be a totally shy around people and fearful with any interactions at all, but it was thanks to a close friend who was completely outrageous and friendly, who didn't take no for an answer, that let me open up to others. she was the one who let me practice being comfortable interacting with other people, and from there i started to work my way up to more and more people until i completely comfortable starting a conversation even with strangers. that doesn't change the fact i'm still introverted, and comfortable with silence, or that i'm not into partying or long conversations... but if someone talks to me, i'm totally happy to talk back.

introversion is NOT shyness. introversion is all well and good, but shyness is not - it's something that leaves you increasingly isolated and lonely.


Edited by Psion (05/14/20 03:14 PM)


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Psion]
    #26670797 - 05/14/20 02:58 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Btw I dont think applying Occams Razor would result in solipsism. Isn't the simplest explanation a reality outside of oneself as well instead of it all being in the mind?


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: What is Love? [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #26671057 - 05/14/20 04:57 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Solipsism, to you, seems like it potentially affirms a grand loneliness
because the prospect is that when your ego dies you will discover anything you invested emotional energy into
was a false drain on that emotional energy

not trying to go too far, yet again, into the reality that the entity that generates all experience is not the same as the ego that experiences it without having generative capacity
but this is a problem not of the philosophy of solipsism (which itself has other issues), but a problem with you and how you live with and seek to integrate the philosophies you encounoter
as demonstrated by your also taking erroneous understandings of other traditions as being their limitations and not your own




Quote:

You have been given advice on how other systems of belief would be more useful to you
but you are stuck on insisting that you must adhere to the system of belief you are following, because if you adhere to the limitations of the system then it seems perfectly self-contained

You're being told to move your house to higher ground before the flood waters take you away
and you're standing there demanding that people tell you how to stop the tides from rising




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphysical_solipsism

The problem that no one has a solution for is the loneliness that comes from the possibility being true. It doesn't matter what I BELIEVE as long as there is a chance that cosmic loneliness is possible. I don't want to PRETEND that people are real and have to bear that in mind with every interaction with them. My heart wouldn't be able to take it.

I mean picking something just because it's helpful to you sounds like confirmation bias and lying to yourself.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


Edited by Thanatos10 (05/14/20 05:11 PM)


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26671091 - 05/14/20 05:19 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

Solipsism, to you, seems like it potentially affirms a grand loneliness
because the prospect is that when your ego dies you will discover anything you invested emotional energy into
was a false drain on that emotional energy

not trying to go too far, yet again, into the reality that the entity that generates all experience is not the same as the ego that experiences it without having generative capacity
but this is a problem not of the philosophy of solipsism (which itself has other issues), but a problem with you and how you live with and seek to integrate the philosophies you encounoter
as demonstrated by your also taking erroneous understandings of other traditions as being their limitations and not your own




Quote:

You have been given advice on how other systems of belief would be more useful to you
but you are stuck on insisting that you must adhere to the system of belief you are following, because if you adhere to the limitations of the system then it seems perfectly self-contained

You're being told to move your house to higher ground before the flood waters take you away
and you're standing there demanding that people tell you how to stop the tides from rising




The problem that no one has a solution for is the loneliness that comes from the possibility being true. It doesn't matter what I BELIEVE as long as there is a chance that cosmic loneliness is possible. I don't want to PRETEND that people are real and have to bear that in mind with every interaction with them. My heart wouldn't be able to take it.




You believe in the possibility, and as a result pretend that people are not real as a shield in interacting with them
You have daily encounters with people and your decision to view the possibility of it being true as being more likely than the possibility of it being untrue shapes the resulting outcome,
which is you feeling negative about your day to day experiences because you're stifling your emotional experience by cutting yourself off from the outset

solutions have been offered
among them is to accept and come to peace with that uncertainty
the truth of the matter is that "you" will never know whether it is true or false
"your" heart will never be exposed to it
you are postulating that the world goes away when you die -- by what metric can you expect to be able to experience the truth of what the world does on the other side of it?

so, out of your fear of some sort of loneliness after this life
you are cutting off any opportunity to avoid loneliness during this life
this is the problem of fear with regards to humans as intention manifesting beings
if your intention is replaced by your fear, you manifest your fear


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26671093 - 05/14/20 05:20 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

"I mean picking something just because it's helpful to you sounds like confirmation bias and lying to yourself."

Such is life.
Pick wisely.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26671099 - 05/14/20 05:22 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

We all have to trust that at times other people know better.


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26671116 - 05/14/20 05:29 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
...
I mean picking something just because it's helpful to you sounds like confirmation bias and lying to yourself.




Sure, it sounds like that because that is what you are being advised to do
you already extensively use confirmation bias and lying to yourself about the reality of solipsism which leaves you feeling negative about the life you live
all you are being advised to do is to change the system you are doing that for

the difference with picking one that is helpful is that it will get you out of the endless patterns of negative thought that the unhelpful one you have chosen is promoting


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26671452 - 05/14/20 09:17 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

Solipsism, to you, seems like it potentially affirms a grand loneliness
because the prospect is that when your ego dies you will discover anything you invested emotional energy into
was a false drain on that emotional energy

not trying to go too far, yet again, into the reality that the entity that generates all experience is not the same as the ego that experiences it without having generative capacity
but this is a problem not of the philosophy of solipsism (which itself has other issues), but a problem with you and how you live with and seek to integrate the philosophies you encounoter
as demonstrated by your also taking erroneous understandings of other traditions as being their limitations and not your own




Quote:

You have been given advice on how other systems of belief would be more useful to you
but you are stuck on insisting that you must adhere to the system of belief you are following, because if you adhere to the limitations of the system then it seems perfectly self-contained

You're being told to move your house to higher ground before the flood waters take you away
and you're standing there demanding that people tell you how to stop the tides from rising




The problem that no one has a solution for is the loneliness that comes from the possibility being true. It doesn't matter what I BELIEVE as long as there is a chance that cosmic loneliness is possible. I don't want to PRETEND that people are real and have to bear that in mind with every interaction with them. My heart wouldn't be able to take it.




You believe in the possibility, and as a result pretend that people are not real as a shield in interacting with them
You have daily encounters with people and your decision to view the possibility of it being true as being more likely than the possibility of it being untrue shapes the resulting outcome,
which is you feeling negative about your day to day experiences because you're stifling your emotional experience by cutting yourself off from the outset

solutions have been offered
among them is to accept and come to peace with that uncertainty
the truth of the matter is that "you" will never know whether it is true or false
"your" heart will never be exposed to it
you are postulating that the world goes away when you die -- by what metric can you expect to be able to experience the truth of what the world does on the other side of it?

so, out of your fear of some sort of loneliness after this life
you are cutting off any opportunity to avoid loneliness during this life
this is the problem of fear with regards to humans as intention manifesting beings
if your intention is replaced by your fear, you manifest your fear



It’s not fear of loneliness after this life, it’s the fear of loneliness in THIS life.

How can you make peace with the uncertainty? With rolling the dice with every interaction? I am afraid of having to live in some kind of purgatory with no one else there. I live in fear that it might be true, that evidence will come up, that maybe it’s true and I’m living a lie. I mean if you don’t have evidence of something existing then isn’t it logical to behave as though it doesn’t?

Even if I did get over this there isn’t anything waiting for me after the fact, plenty of other things I have read squashed that: https://www.popmatters.com/conspiracy-against-human-race-ligotti-2612380910.html?rebelltitem=1#rebelltitem1

Too many scars from everything I’ve been exposed to for me to function of I make it out of this.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflinePsion
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26671521 - 05/14/20 09:45 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

uh, as soon as i opened that link i got a firewall warning. that right there is a red flag that you probably should avoid listening to that site.

for another, there's no way of proving it. therefore evidence WON'T come up. period. so no, it's not logical to behave as if evidence will come up, because there won't be any evidence coming. ever. it's an unprovable, just like waiting for 2 + 2 to = 321542331. the math simply does not work out that way.

the best way to get over it? maybe try looking at how silly you're being, and laugh. even if you don't feel like laughing. laugh anyways. hear how awful you sound. laugh at how awful that laugh sounds. repeat until suddenly the ridiculousness of the situation finally starts to become amusing, at which point the fears grip starts to break a bit. maybe it won't break right away, maybe it will... but what you feel is irrational and emotional. try using its opposite emotion to break its hold.

anyways, i recently came across an article mentioning how there was a real life "Lord of the Flies" situation, where some teenage boys got stranded for over a year on an island about 50 years ago with no grown-ups. how did it go? turns out they worked together in harmony, creating a chores list, making a guitar out of available materials and singing songs, helping one boy who broke a leg when he was injured to recover, and eventually they all were rescued whole and healthy and pretty well off.

turns out the author of the "Lord of the Flies" was a pretty depressed and messed up guy. goes to show you that humanity has more going for it than we give it credit for, especially the innocence of youth. perhaps it is society's failings to blame for our current woes, not some innate fault of the human race itself.


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26671662 - 05/14/20 11:41 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Thanatos said: "I am afraid of having to live in some kind of purgatory with no one else there. I live in fear that it might be true, that evidence will come up, that maybe it’s true and I’m living a lie. I mean if you don’t have evidence of something existing then isn’t it logical to behave as though it doesn’t?"

So what's the evidence for the purgatory and what is the evidence for something existing? Ever weigh these two? You live in fear, that's right. You know you really lack the ability to take a different perspective for some reason. I bet it is because you are depressed. You cannot assess the situation from different view points. You can' tthink positively of your situation. Say this purgatory for example. What a fucking paradise for a purgatory if you look around. I mean, go take a hike or trip to nature and just be. Some fucking purgatory this is. But you go "what if it's true, I can't think of anything else". That's an obsession and you can't let go of the fear. You are afraid of fear and loneliness which has you trapped. Look those motherfuckers in the eye and say "bring it on".


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26672189 - 05/15/20 08:36 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

Solipsism, to you, seems like it potentially affirms a grand loneliness
because the prospect is that when your ego dies you will discover anything you invested emotional energy into
was a false drain on that emotional energy

not trying to go too far, yet again, into the reality that the entity that generates all experience is not the same as the ego that experiences it without having generative capacity
but this is a problem not of the philosophy of solipsism (which itself has other issues), but a problem with you and how you live with and seek to integrate the philosophies you encounoter
as demonstrated by your also taking erroneous understandings of other traditions as being their limitations and not your own




Quote:

You have been given advice on how other systems of belief would be more useful to you
but you are stuck on insisting that you must adhere to the system of belief you are following, because if you adhere to the limitations of the system then it seems perfectly self-contained

You're being told to move your house to higher ground before the flood waters take you away
and you're standing there demanding that people tell you how to stop the tides from rising




The problem that no one has a solution for is the loneliness that comes from the possibility being true. It doesn't matter what I BELIEVE as long as there is a chance that cosmic loneliness is possible. I don't want to PRETEND that people are real and have to bear that in mind with every interaction with them. My heart wouldn't be able to take it.




You believe in the possibility, and as a result pretend that people are not real as a shield in interacting with them
You have daily encounters with people and your decision to view the possibility of it being true as being more likely than the possibility of it being untrue shapes the resulting outcome,
which is you feeling negative about your day to day experiences because you're stifling your emotional experience by cutting yourself off from the outset

solutions have been offered
among them is to accept and come to peace with that uncertainty
the truth of the matter is that "you" will never know whether it is true or false
"your" heart will never be exposed to it
you are postulating that the world goes away when you die -- by what metric can you expect to be able to experience the truth of what the world does on the other side of it?

so, out of your fear of some sort of loneliness after this life
you are cutting off any opportunity to avoid loneliness during this life
this is the problem of fear with regards to humans as intention manifesting beings
if your intention is replaced by your fear, you manifest your fear



It’s not fear of loneliness after this life, it’s the fear of loneliness in THIS life.
...




And the only way you suspect you are going to be able to confirm that level of lonelines is after this life
so you are actively avoiding making connections during this life, for fear that you will find out after this life that they were false

as stated, your fear is manifesting that reality already -- you are living in a constant state of loneliness because you fear loneliness

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
How can you make peace with the uncertainty? ...




This is about the only site that I feel comfortable making this response
take more mushrooms

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
...With rolling the dice with every interaction? I am afraid of having to live in some kind of purgatory with no one else there. I live in fear that it might be true, that evidence will come up, that maybe it’s true and I’m living a lie...




This is interesting, because you paint this fear using language (ie: "purgatory")
that indicates that you are afraid of loneliness after this life rather than during this life

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
...I mean if you don’t have evidence of something existing then isn’t it logical to behave as though it doesn’t?
...




This is a case-sensitive answer,
but for your case, the answer is no

you don't have evidence of things not existing, but you behave in a fearful manner as tho such evidence will come up
the logical way to behave would be a detatched manner, neither fearful nor exicited that evidence will come up to prove you right or to prove you wrong

you are behaving a certain way because you are believing a certain way; you seem to be constantly in a "Flight" response prepared for challenging circumstances

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
...Even if I did get over this there isn’t anything waiting for me after the fact, plenty of other things I have read squashed that: https://www.popmatters.com/conspiracy-against-human-race-ligotti-2612380910.html?rebelltitem=1#rebelltitem1
...




My virus scanner is blocking that site, so you may wish to run a deep scan with your own virus scanner to make sure it has not given you something
unfortunately this means not being able to read what you are referring to unless you are willing to quote the content in question

however, the terminology of recognition that there is not anything waiting for you after the fact
again poses the question of how you suspect to discover that your lived experience was anything other than as real as it felt while you lived through it

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
...Too many scars from everything I’ve been exposed to for me to function of I make it out of this.




You call them scars, but they are excuses.  They are not on your body for the world to see, they are on your mind for you to look back at.

I have scars all over my arms that mean that my dream of one day wearing a pretty sleeveless wedding dress has been killed
by my continually giving in to depression in my younger years of disbelief that anyone else existed
I don't want my future wife to have to see my shoulder saying "Reject" on the day she accepts me more deeply than ever before
but this just means having to alter my dream because of my past mistakes, it does not mean that dream goes out the window
a sleeved wedding gown fitted to my form may arguably give me a more regal appearance


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26672624 - 05/15/20 01:01 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

What up Thanatos10. I was thinking about you today, how could I help you, because I understood your perspective, your problem if even for a little while


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Tantrika] * 2
    #26672672 - 05/15/20 01:33 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Honestly that virus scan shouldn’t be an issue but whatever, here’s a few lines from the link:

Quote:

The book represents the strangest of alchemies. In The Conspiracy Against the Human Race, we have a horror writer of immense skill, bringing all his gifts to bear in exploring the idea that the self we imagine, the person we believe looks out at the world through our eyes, amounts to nothing more than a series of flickering impressions of a biomechanism radically exposed to a world of suffering.

The result makes reading Schopenhauer feel like recess all day and ice cream for everybody. Much like Ligotti's fiction, The Conspiracy Against the Human Race leaves you not shuddering at what might be under the bed, but asking whether or not it even matters since, as he puts it, "everything in existence is malignantly useless."

Lovers of skeptical, rather bitter, ruminations about the world should be warned. Ligotti's not engaging in a Menken-esque rant about the world as it is. He's suggesting we are puppets who can never understand that world, empty husks moved by evolutionary drives that make even our skepticism an incongruity, a paradox of nature that should not have been.




Quote:

If you're used to the guruism of optimistic thinking, positive thinking's much talked about power, this book may be your cure. Ligotti reminds us that, like Laura Berlant's conception of "cruel optimism", our relentless pursuit of success confuses us with conceptions of unattainable happiness. Unlike, Berlant, however, Ligotti believes this may have more to do with the deepest primal needs of the human species rather than being a particular malady of neo-liberalism. Optimism emerged from the demands of evolutionary biology, a sensibility, he writes, "that grew out of our animal instincts to survive and reproduce."

He not only disassembles the bromides hawked by various religious and secular entrepreneurs who are aware, in his words, that human beings "will trust in anything that authenticates their purpose as persons, tribes, societies, and particularly as a species." Perhaps more frighteningly, he smokes out the false pessimist, the person willing to brood over the horrors of existence and come away proclaiming it a kind of beautiful tragedy. Not even Nietzsche escapes his scalpel. Ligotti argues that the poet of life's cruelty ultimately created a kind of mystical escape hatch for his readers. Nietzsche maintains, Ligotti writes, his "popularity with atheistic amoralists in his materialist mysticism, a sleight of hand that makes the world's meaninglessness into something meaningful."

Readers will find themselves astonished at the extraordinary range of this book. Beginning by resurrecting an obscure Scandinavian philosopher, Peter Wessel Zapffe, Ligotti takes us on a tour of both philosophy and literature that manages to include Schopenhauer, Anne Radcliffe, Thomas De Quincy, H.P. Lovecraft, and Poe. This is no simple ornamental display of learning and range; Ligotti has insights into each of these figures that cut like a razor. He is absolutely unrelenting in his effort to push ideas to their logical conclusions.




Quote:

This doesn't mean he's ultimately wrong about his thoroughly depressing conception of what existence means. Indeed, The book should be read, and here some will vociferously disagree, as a kind of self-help book, perhaps an anti-self help book given its theme. If you, like me, have suffered from clinical depression, you may think a work of philosophical pessimism precisely the book you should not read. Isn't the world, and certain chemical combinations in our own brains, fairly constantly telling us we don't matter that much anyway? Given the outcry over simple, empathetic stories like the TV show, 13 Reasons Why, it's hard to imagine what suicide prevention culture would think of Ligotti's black ruminations.

From another perspective, however, it's a wonderfully liberating book. Ligotti leaves the reader with no answers. He's obviously an anti-natalist but doesn't really think that human beings will get around to making this rather rational choice. He doesn't advocate suicide and I refuse to believe that anyone not already ready to take that leap into the dark would do it because they read this dour book. Indeed, it helps prove the author's point if the illusory goodness of life, the smiling mask, can be ripped away by a book, a song, a movie, or a TV series

This may be the best book to hand a person suffering from depression. It certainly was good for me to re-read it after a number of years. We are having an important public discussion about removing the shame and silence surrounding depression and mental health issues more generally. The Conspiracy Against the Human Race deserves some place in this conversation. Depressed? You have reason to be and yet neither you nor your depression matters that much to a cold cosmos. You don't have to smile, you don't have to cheer up. You are not the one pretending. You just find yourself, Ligotti writes, "in an abyss of lucidity."




Quote:

The great majority of humanity has, Ligotti points out, simply decided that "being alive is all right", despite manifest evidence to the contrary. Our political struggles, this would seem to suggest, are manifestations of our unwillingness to recognize the "malignancy" of life. In this, free market libertarians, neo-conservatives, fascists, and socialists could be said to share a common taste for an eschaton, a way out of the morass.




--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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InvisibleTantrika
Miss Ann Thrope
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #26672717 - 05/15/20 02:02 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

thank you for the quotes
unfortunately this opens a new can of worms for me in not being able to well respond to Ligotti's positions through the lens of what seems to be a book review more than an essay about meaning drawing from his points

but can definitely say the book has been added to my wishlist

as an awesome bonus, you have made me aware of where one of the characters from one of the D&D campaigns I watch named his tentacle familiar



K'thriss Drow'b is a Dark Elf Sorcerer with a tentacle as his familiar
the tentacle is named Ligotti -- and as the work described discusses a dissection of Lovecraft's literature, and he himself was a horror writer
it most certainly plays into his own Lovecraftian character influences

:hatsoff:

do agree with the core point of his work as seems to be expressed tho -- but do you?
it is perfectly acceptable to find comfort in depression, if indeed that is what the human organism seeks to do
many artists put themselves through periods of withdrawal or abuse in order to facillitate creativity from the depression

he talks about how the book taken as a whole is liberating -- do you feel liberated by the review?
do you feel liberated or trapped when you examine where you presently are?

if you want to argue for this, then by all means follow it
but you seem to be here looking for an answer to get away from this; so, why choose to follow the depression path?

explore any mind state you feel you can potentially provide a form of reward
Ligotti apparently churned a fairly well-regarded book out of his experiences


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OfflinePsion
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Registered: 09/11/18
Posts: 1,288
Last seen: 5 days, 7 hours
Re: What is Love? [Re: Tantrika] * 2
    #26672778 - 05/15/20 02:42 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Tantrika - if your future wife really accepts you for what you are, she would accept you, past, present and future, scars of the past included. those scars are a part of what shaped you - so don't hide them, they are a part of what made you, you! a part of why she loves you!

I'd say keep to your dream and accept your past - and reject any naysayers and your own doubts. the past is past - so what if you made a mistake in the past? we all make mistakes. it's the here and now, the future you're forging that matters. you don't see people saying an old gnarly oak is hideous because it's got a few twisted branches or missing stubs, do you? no, we say it's Majestic, or Awe-inspiring. We look at rugged mountains for inspiration, to nature with its imperfections... and admire it, imperfections and all, because those imperfections pale in comparison to the grand beauty that they merely highlight.

You have nothing to fear from those scars. Your future wife would be seeing those scars every day anyways - hiding them in shame on such a big day would only emphasize that feeling of shame. stand proud, because you have nothing to be ashamed of anymore! It's a big day for anyone! :heart:

And Thanatos, i used to have a lot of fear about the afterlife before I tripped. not anymore. I used to be all about that logic and couldn't get people who worshiped god. after that first trip... i understand now. i still am a logical person by nature... but i realize that there really is more than one kind of knowledge. some things really are felt with the heart, not with the mind.

that said, does your family have any history of schizophrenia or psychosis? psychedelics might possibly be a bad idea if so for you, since it can hasten the inevitable psychotic break if you're already on the verge of breaking, usually by about a year. though i'm not sure if psychedelics are a danger for people who suffer from this kind of problem... id imagine it would be a boon if anything, helping to reconnect. seems more like it's arising from possible depression if anything, maybe a fear of the afterlife/unknown like i did, stuck in thought loops... things psychedelics are amazing at breaking you out of temporarily and giving you a fresh perspective on.

oh yes. and if solipsism is real, how the heck are we able to perform mind melds? we're actually able to connect two peoples minds and "send" information from one brain to another. you can't do that if there's only one mind!

besides, why are you so concerned about you being some brain in a jar somewhere when your brains in a bony encasement in a fleshy jar anyways? it's just a jar by another name anyways. you're a brain in a squishy jar by another name. there. you get your brain in a jar. we're all brains in a jar! now go play with the other brains in a jar and make friends already!


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