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OfflineZoda
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Registered: 11/17/19
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Last seen: 20 days, 15 hours
[EDIT] 1st McKenaii Growth
    #26574810 - 04/03/20 09:00 AM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Hello guys,

I have had quite the journey to finally discover it was not bacteria, but very likely Cobweb Mold that ruined my first dozen or so tries with Substrate Bags. Some even fully colonized after 2 weeks, but after 6 weeks of nothing happening the white little clouds on top turned green! ;(

Anyways, I am now trying to get a clean culture with agar and would like to know if I have a cobweb infested grain jar and take multiple single grain samples from it...is there a chance for me to isolate a clean sample since the cobweb seems to grow so fast? and if yes, how do i do that?

also can you take a look and see if this looks too moist to you? I read cobweb thrives on too moist environments. I cut a finger wide hole into my bags and then tape over with 3M medical tape. SHould I maybe open the substrate bags every day for a little bit fresh air?

Best agar dish after 2nd transfer:


substrate bag at 2 weeks:


one week ago i marked in control lines to monitor the growth. this is the only spot that went on significantly. notice how this one seems to have cleaner mycelium, not so puffy!


did not move at all in a week:


top layer:


--------------------
“I’m growing mushrooms… because I can’t kill them. They just keep multiplying…and it’s like…I’m in service to them.”


Edited by Zoda (05/24/20 04:49 AM)


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OfflineZoda
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Registered: 11/17/19
Posts: 39
Loc: Germany Flag
Last seen: 20 days, 15 hours
Re: Cobweb mold in Substrate bag? [Re: Zoda]
    #26591412 - 04/10/20 03:57 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

UPDATE:

I have kept the plate that I took the new cuts from. Can I use that to incubate a grainjar with?:




Or should I wait for the next generation. From 10 Total plates, only 2 seems to be doing really good:





So that means I got 1 to make new cuts from and one to make a grainjar with...if these sample are indeed of good quality (lets hope so!) :smile:


--------------------
“I’m growing mushrooms… because I can’t kill them. They just keep multiplying…and it’s like…I’m in service to them.”


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Offlinerumfor69
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Re: Cobweb mold in Substrate bag? [Re: Zoda]
    #26591445 - 04/10/20 04:09 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I wouldn't open the bag just yet the microtape hole should provide
enough gas exchange for it to colonize.

But if those ropes are mycelium they do kinda look odd. Long
and skinny but it doesn't look like cobweb mold. Just gonna have to
wait to see if it colonizes.

In the meantime keep working your agar transfers and cleaning it up


--------------------

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OfflineJustweed
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Re: Cobweb mold in Substrate bag? [Re: rumfor69]
    #26591566 - 04/10/20 05:03 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

What are you making your substrate bags from? Are you following a specific pasteurization tek? You might want to revisit how you're pasteurizing bags or nocing them up, cobweb will show up within 3-4 days in jars if the jars are bad, so if you're not getting cobweb in jars but in bags, the problem is with your bags.


--------------------


Keep 'em high and tight guys....


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OfflineZoda
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Re: Cobweb mold in Substrate bag? [Re: Justweed]
    #26593487 - 04/11/20 01:14 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Justweed said:
What are you making your substrate bags from? Are you following a specific pasteurization tek? You might want to revisit how you're pasteurizing bags or nocing them up, cobweb will show up within 3-4 days in jars if the jars are bad, so if you're not getting cobweb in jars but in bags, the problem is with your bags.




In previous bags i also used wormdroppings. Now I just use coco coir and perlite.

I use tough plastic bags and pour boiling water right onto the substrate, close it and let it cool down for a few hours. Then add the grains and stirr it all up.

Im not sure where all my contaminations were...Ive been changing my process for the last 3 months now and still no successful fruiting ;(

Ill just keep on trying like rumfor69 suggest, but my big question remains:

How can I tell if the sample really is free of cobweb? do i just have to pick the best looking one and hope for the best at some point or is there a way of telling?


--------------------
“I’m growing mushrooms… because I can’t kill them. They just keep multiplying…and it’s like…I’m in service to them.”


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OfflineZoda
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Registered: 11/17/19
Posts: 39
Loc: Germany Flag
Last seen: 20 days, 15 hours
Re: Cobweb mold in Substrate bag? [Re: Zoda]
    #26593708 - 04/11/20 03:07 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

I took another look at the substrate bag and it does look infected now.

See the reaction from the mycelium fighting it:


And also which ive never had before, theres now white small dots around the mycelium D:



--------------------
“I’m growing mushrooms… because I can’t kill them. They just keep multiplying…and it’s like…I’m in service to them.”


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Offlinerumfor69
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Re: Cobweb mold in Substrate bag? [Re: Zoda] * 1
    #26593776 - 04/11/20 03:59 PM (3 years, 10 months ago)

The droplet is normal and doesn't look like contamination.

And the white dots look like they might be knotts. Which could mean it
might start pinning lol I dunno just let it sit and keep watching. Try
not to babysit it too much lol


--------------------

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OfflineZoda
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Re: Cobweb mold in Substrate bag? [Re: rumfor69]
    #26629981 - 04/26/20 01:58 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

rumfor69 said:
The droplet is normal and doesn't look like contamination.

And the white dots look like they might be knotts. Which could mean it
might start pinning lol I dunno just let it sit and keep watching. Try
not to babysit it too much lol




You were right, this morning I discovered a pin coming out of the substrate:


Now this was made from a grain jar a good month ago, that I used to spawn some of the Agar dishes you see that are now in the 4th generation.

This one is from last week (3rd generation) and was the 2nd best agar dish that I didnt destroy or use for more transfers. My question is (again), could this marked spot be any contaminant? It grew a bit slower out of the center but then as you can see it didnt quite go through like the rest at all.




this not so good one from the 4th generation displays it really strong one sided:


and even if it is some sort of bacteria, I also believe it to be in the current substrate bag. Or maybe it is really just the mycelium reacting to a different environment I dont know...

But I do want to use the 4th generation or maybe even that 3rd generation dish to spawn grain jars again, so do you guys think they are ready to do so?

Thanks again for all the help <3


--------------------
“I’m growing mushrooms… because I can’t kill them. They just keep multiplying…and it’s like…I’m in service to them.”


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Offlinerumfor69
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Re: Cobweb mold in Substrate bag? [Re: Zoda]
    #26630059 - 04/26/20 02:41 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

So it doesn't look like any immediately noticeable contamination. It
could just be some weaker slower genetic growth in both of them. You
would just want to take your transfers and grain testers away from it.
But I'd do both transfer some aggressive ropy rhizo growth to a new plate
and toss some into some grains. I won't tell anyone if you don't 😉


--------------------

Links For Beginners And Beyond:mspoil:


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OfflineZoda
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Registered: 11/17/19
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Re: Cobweb mold in Substrate bag? [Re: rumfor69]
    #26640443 - 05/01/20 03:54 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

rumfor69 said:
So it doesn't look like any immediately noticeable contamination. It
could just be some weaker slower genetic growth in both of them. You
would just want to take your transfers and grain testers away from it.
But I'd do both transfer some aggressive ropy rhizo growth to a new plate
and toss some into some grains. I won't tell anyone if you don't 😉




Haha Ill think Ill actually wait on the grains once more as our little friend does not look all too healthy after the last days growth:



It has developed a lot of Pelt(?) at the stem and didnt really gain in size the last two days but just weirdly twisted its head?!

Im thinking by the general looks of the bag that the mycelium is still fighting some type of contam and maybe I should just proceed with taking samples from the stem of the twisting fella? Its big enough to cut a clean sample from I suppose. Was gonna wait so I can take a spore print too, but Im not sure this will be an option this bag.


--------------------
“I’m growing mushrooms… because I can’t kill them. They just keep multiplying…and it’s like…I’m in service to them.”


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OfflineZoda
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Registered: 11/17/19
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Last seen: 20 days, 15 hours
Re: Cobweb mold in Substrate bag? [Re: Zoda] * 1
    #26668877 - 05/13/20 04:24 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Little update, after the first flush with 5 small ones, Im now getting quite a lot springing up, but they all seem to be super small compared to the golden teachers i had before. Not sure if its the new strain (mc kenaii) or the substrate etc. , but they seem to stop growing at a pinky fingers lenght and pencil diameter.



the biggest one seems to be an abort at that size, again gaining more of the white pelt at its stem. Im thinking of just waiting as long as the veil doesnt open, dont think they need more air or moisture?


--------------------
“I’m growing mushrooms… because I can’t kill them. They just keep multiplying…and it’s like…I’m in service to them.”


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Offlinerumfor69
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Re: Cobweb mold in Substrate bag? [Re: Zoda]
    #26669569 - 05/13/20 10:18 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Hmm well they don't look bad and hey pins so that's good. It could be
the genetics or sometimes skinny stalled pins could be a sign of not
enough FAE but at the same time it seems a little dry in there somehow


--------------------

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InvisibleApples in Mono
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Re: Cobweb mold in Substrate bag? [Re: rumfor69] * 1
    #26669644 - 05/13/20 11:03 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Those mushrooms need air. And I can't see all the contams you're talking about


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OfflineZoda
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Re: Cobweb mold in Substrate bag? [Re: rumfor69]
    #26669802 - 05/14/20 01:35 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

rumfor69 said:
Hmm well they don't look bad and hey pins so that's good. It could be
the genetics or sometimes skinny stalled pins could be a sign of not
enough FAE but at the same time it seems a little dry in there somehow




I wasnt sure about moisture, but I took out a small ball of dirt that was lose inside and tested it, it was still somewhat at field capacity. when i squeezed it hard the water came out.

Should I maybe just in case spray the inside of the bag with some distilled water?

And concerning the air issue, I am ventilating the bag for 5 min 3 times a day (morning, noon, and night), so I cannot believe they need even more air. Or do I fundamentally need to change the air exchange for the fruiting period?

With the golden teachers I had before they grew MUCH larger with the same amount of air. I kept them much more moist, but I think that was my mistake, because a ton of water just assembled at the bottom of that bag.


So my question now is how do I proceed from here? I have tried taking a sample from these small shrooms, but it didnt really work. I only had success with agar transfers from the original grain jar.


--------------------
“I’m growing mushrooms… because I can’t kill them. They just keep multiplying…and it’s like…I’m in service to them.”


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Offlinerumfor69
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Re: Cobweb mold in Substrate bag? [Re: Zoda] * 1
    #26670197 - 05/14/20 08:20 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Venting the air 3 times a day is good and a little high up misting without surface
pooling never hurts either.

The idea behind FAE is that it's a constant exchanging thing. It's not
necessarily enough to just change the air out of a container so many times
a day. Whether it's a bag, a tub, or a whole room. It's about having a
constant free exchange of fresh air while still maintaining the highest
humidity levels.

This is where the shotgun fruiting chamber(SGFC) comes in best. It being
completely covered in holes allowes for the constant exchange of fresh air
from the natural air currents around us. But it's still containing enough
that is keeps a high humidity level. Imagine a drop of water in an empty
jar with the lid screwed on tight. There's humidity in there, building up
condensating, but no fresh air. Now poke a pin hole in the lid, it's still
humid in there but there's more fresh air now too.

I've never fruited in a bag but perhaps putting a couple tack nail sized
holes in the bag in a couple places would allow more air exchange but still
maintain humidity from a little light misting once or twice a day.

Grip the nail with some pliers, heat the tip with a lighter and just melt
like two small holes on each side about a half inch above the substrate surface
Then do the same towards the top of the bag somewhere. Maybe only 4-6 small
holes at first just to try it out and see if it helps.

I reccomend if you're going to keep fruiting cakes and blocks to build a
properly designed SGFC it really will make things easier and eliminate the
variable of proper environment.


--------------------

Links For Beginners And Beyond:mspoil:


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OfflineZoda
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Registered: 11/17/19
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Re: Cobweb mold in Substrate bag? [Re: rumfor69]
    #26670560 - 05/14/20 12:36 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

rumfor69 said:
Venting the air 3 times a day is good and a little high up misting without surface
pooling never hurts either.

The idea behind FAE is that it's a constant exchanging thing. It's not
necessarily enough to just change the air out of a container so many times
a day. Whether it's a bag, a tub, or a whole room. It's about having a
constant free exchange of fresh air while still maintaining the highest
humidity levels.

This is where the shotgun fruiting chamber(SGFC) comes in best. It being
completely covered in holes allowes for the constant exchange of fresh air
from the natural air currents around us. But it's still containing enough
that is keeps a high humidity level. Imagine a drop of water in an empty
jar with the lid screwed on tight. There's humidity in there, building up
condensating, but no fresh air. Now poke a pin hole in the lid, it's still
humid in there but there's more fresh air now too.

I've never fruited in a bag but perhaps putting a couple tack nail sized
holes in the bag in a couple places would allow more air exchange but still
maintain humidity from a little light misting once or twice a day.

Grip the nail with some pliers, heat the tip with a lighter and just melt
like two small holes on each side about a half inch above the substrate surface
Then do the same towards the top of the bag somewhere. Maybe only 4-6 small
holes at first just to try it out and see if it helps.

I reccomend if you're going to keep fruiting cakes and blocks to build a
properly designed SGFC it really will make things easier and eliminate the
variable of proper environment.





Hey rumfor, thank you for the next great idea! I always imagined these type of crates were for BRF cakes, but I supposed a substrate block from a bag works as well!

so heres what ive come up with:



Ive drilled 1/4" holes into all 6 sides. The box is sitting on top of another box lid, so the perlite inside gets airflow. beneath all of this, is a 15W heating mat so I cant get the temperature up again íf needed.



ive printed this thing to put the substrate blocks onto, as soon as the feet come out of the printer I will migrate the block and see if the 3rd flush really comes out better!

Ive installed a Thermometer, I will go for a temperature between 21C°-25C° and humidity I guess as high as possible right? but definately above 80%.


--------------------
“I’m growing mushrooms… because I can’t kill them. They just keep multiplying…and it’s like…I’m in service to them.”


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Offlinerumfor69
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Re: Cobweb mold in Substrate bag? [Re: Zoda]
    #26670627 - 05/14/20 01:10 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

That looks great! The humidity as high as it can be is great 99% even
if it does is good.

The perlite layer you want it to be 4-5 inches thick so it can do that
and not dry out as much. Spray the perlite a bunch everyday.

The heating pad isn't necessary unless you're getting temperatures down
in the low 65°F range. But they actually like temps 70-75°F. Warmer temps
may speed things up to a very small extent but warmer temps really just
help bad things grow better.

Mycelium generates it's own heat so it's always warmer in your cake/block
than the surrounding environment.


--------------------

Links For Beginners And Beyond:mspoil:


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OfflineZoda
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Registered: 11/17/19
Posts: 39
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Re: Cobweb mold in Substrate bag? [Re: rumfor69]
    #26670776 - 05/14/20 02:49 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

rumfor69 said:
That looks great! The humidity as high as it can be is great 99% even
if it does is good.

The perlite layer you want it to be 4-5 inches thick so it can do that
and not dry out as much. Spray the perlite a bunch everyday.

The heating pad isn't necessary unless you're getting temperatures down
in the low 65°F range. But they actually like temps 70-75°F. Warmer temps
may speed things up to a very small extent but warmer temps really just
help bad things grow better.

Mycelium generates it's own heat so it's always warmer in your cake/block
than the surrounding environment.





Well, the thermometer did say 18C° which is about 64F so Im thinking I should let the 15W mat run.

One more question if you dont mind, I couldnt get a specific answer on:

Should I dunk my substrate block after each flush for 10-20min or so? Ive read that it also helps to let it sit in the fridge over night after a flush so it cools down and re-heats again.

Can you confirm these tactics working in your experience or should I just make sure to mist properly and let the mycelium figure out the rest...there seems to be two schools of thought on that topic.


--------------------
“I’m growing mushrooms… because I can’t kill them. They just keep multiplying…and it’s like…I’m in service to them.”


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Offlinerumfor69
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Re: Cobweb mold in Substrate bag? [Re: Zoda]
    #26671458 - 05/14/20 09:19 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Well growers dunk other types of blocks like shiitake sawdust blocks
so I would say yeah it's ok to dunk it. But I would probably keep it
submerged for longer than 10-20mins. More like a few hours. People dunk
cakes for 24hrs so a few hrs for a larger probably less dense block makes
sense to me but I am just giving my best guess with that having never done it.

As for the fridge that's the thought process of cold shocking and isn't
necessary for cubes so don't worry about doing that ever.


--------------------

Links For Beginners And Beyond:mspoil:


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Cobweb mold in Substrate bag? [Re: Zoda]
    #26671630 - 05/14/20 11:19 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Dunking a cake in the fridge is to prevent infections and for no other reason. But yes, u should dunk your cakes between flushes. Also make sure to keep the perlite wet/moist and mist the shrooms lightly.


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