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Offlineplotikai
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Help a noob start cultivating
    #26671209 - 05/14/20 08:33 PM (9 months, 17 days ago)

Hey everyone, I've been lurking here for awhile trying to absorb as much information and I think I am at a point where I want to start cultivating for myself. This board has been around for a long time so I had a bit of trouble understanding what the newest best methods are but I'm going to list what I think my process should be and I have a few questions that I'll leave at the bottom.

I went through jmans post, but it looks like a lot of pictures were removed, but I got a good idea from reading through it. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/18205100

-Create agar plates:
Mix malt extract agar with water, sanitize at 15psi for 20 minutes, and distribute it into dishes.

-Inoculate agar:
I assume 1cc should be enough for each plate

-Grain spawn:
seems like rye berries is the gold standard, but millet and popcorn are options.
After washing, I need to soak in water, gypsum, and coffee for 12 hours.
Bring it to a simmer then strain and cool.
Spoon into jar approx 3/4 full.
cover lid with tinfoil and sanitize at 15psi for 90 minutes
Chill overnight and should be cool to the touch

-Substrate:
I think 50/50 bucket tek is the way I want to go which is coco coir, vermiculite, mix with boiling water
Let sit for 40 minutes then mix well, cover and let sit until cool

-Incubation:
Monotub tek seems like the way to go for a noob like myself.
Make sure holes are in the tub,
Layer over a black plastic liner the substrate with the grain spawn.
Add casing layer(is this required?)

-Fruiting:
Load a tub with perlite and place my incubation block inside and keep humidity high

-Drying:
lay on a fan or in a food dehydrator until dry, for long term storage

Questions:
I've ready golden teacher is the most noob friendly, is this true?
Are there any issues with constantly cloning new agar dishes? How many generations can I go without any potency loss?
Is grain to grain transfer as good as dish to dish? Should I even bother with grain to grain?
What should my humidity and temp be for fruiting?
I'm a little confused about the fruiting chamber, I've read that fanning and misting is the old way of handling things, is this true?
What should I look for before harvesting?
I see people going straight from grain bag to fruiting, whats the difference between this and the monotub tek? Seems quicker and easier to just leave it in bags and fruit from that.

Thanks for having such a great community, I'm excited to read everyone's feedback and get started.


Edited by plotikai (05/14/20 08:59 PM)


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Offlineplotikai
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Re: Help a noob start cultivating [Re: plotikai]
    #26674918 - 05/16/20 03:47 PM (9 months, 15 days ago)

I think im going to try bods shoebox tek instead, are bags even worth it when shoebox tek seems so simple?


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Help a noob start cultivating [Re: plotikai]
    #26674973 - 05/16/20 04:13 PM (9 months, 15 days ago)

Your research looks good. Nice work :thumbup:

Quote:

Questions:
I've ready golden teacher is the most noob friendly, is this true?

Are there any issues with constantly cloning new agar dishes? How many generations can I go without any potency loss?

Is grain to grain transfer as good as dish to dish? Should I even bother with grain to grain?

What should my humidity and temp be for fruiting?

I'm a little confused about the fruiting chamber, I've read that fanning and misting is the old way of handling things, is this true?

What should I look for before harvesting?

I see people going straight from grain bag to fruiting, whats the difference between this and the monotub tek? Seems quicker and easier to just leave it in bags and fruit from that.

Thanks for having such a great community, I'm excited to read everyone's feedback and get started.




Any cube is noob-friendly. Mutant strains are slightly harder to grow than the common strains.

Not sure on serial agar to agar use. Should be fine since its such a small amount of mycelium.

Grain to grain is the fastest way to make lots of spawn. I recommend it.

Humidity should be between 70%-100%. Varying levels are preferred. Temp should be between 68F and 78F.

U dont need to fan you DO need to mist. Mist as needed, heavily mist the FC inside but lightly mist your shroons/substrate.

When you harvest, look for the veil coming off the cap next to the stem. The cap will become bell-shaped. This is when you harvest. If the cap goes flat, you waited to long to harvest. Not a big deal but its best to avoid that.

A Monotub has better fruiting condition control than a bag, thats why they are used.


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Offlineplotikai
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Re: Help a noob start cultivating [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26695941 - 05/26/20 01:06 AM (9 months, 6 days ago)

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions! I have a few more questions after watching a whole bunch of videos... It looks to me that large scale gourmet mushroom farms use bags (see image) while most of the teks I see for psilocybe cubensis use tubs.
https://i.imgur.com/v9UP1zX.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/WRUyQAr.jpg

Is the difference simply scale? Does it make sense to grow psilocybe in large scale bags? Also, why do I see a lot more sawdust substrate vs the coir/poo recommended here? I understand they're different strains but is the difference that large between the magic and regular cubensis?


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Offlineorange771
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Re: Help a noob start cultivating [Re: plotikai]
    #26696018 - 05/26/20 02:36 AM (9 months, 6 days ago)

We use tubs because it’s a lot easier than having a dedicated room or grow tent where conditions are ideal. We can create the conditions we want in such a small space by providing more or less fresh air and misting.


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Offlinepoisoned
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Re: Help a noob start cultivating [Re: orange771]
    #26696035 - 05/26/20 02:59 AM (9 months, 6 days ago)

It's mostly scale, but also different condition requirements. Sawdust is for wood lover species while cubensis are dung lovers. Oh, and edibles are not cubensis, there's a lot of different species and most of them are not very related to cubes. We use bags in cube production, but they're usually only used to make spawn.


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OfflinePMBastian
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Re: Help a noob start cultivating [Re: poisoned]
    #26696113 - 05/26/20 04:22 AM (9 months, 6 days ago)

I don't think I've read the tek you're referring to, but if you are going to spawn to either a shoebox or a monotub, there's no need for a fruiting chamber with perlite. That's used for PF tek. Your shrooms will fruit just fine in shoeboxes or modified/unmodified tubs.


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OfflineGhost Rider
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Re: Help a noob start cultivating [Re: plotikai]
    #26696141 - 05/26/20 04:49 AM (9 months, 6 days ago)

1cc is way too much for an agar plate. Should be one drop.


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Offlineplotikai
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Re: Help a noob start cultivating [Re: poisoned] * 1
    #26715088 - 06/02/20 10:29 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Hey everyone, so I've got my plates going:



I don't know if it's too early to tell whether or not they will be good or not and they seem to have an off-color but I don't know if that's just the agar color coming through. I made a pretty serious error and forgot to flame my needle for some of the plates, I understand the reasoning in doing that and will be more diligent in the future, but what's the likelihood of contamination? Isn't the needle sterile anyway?

I noticed on Myers youtube that he was using a barrel sterilizer, can someone clarify why he wouldn't be pasteurizing? He seems like a rather large operation, obviously, I could ask him directly but wouldn't pasteurizing make more sense for that type of scale?

Quote:

poisoned said:
Oh, and edibles are not cubensis, there's a lot of different species and most of them are not very related to cubes. We use bags in cube production, but they're usually only used to make spawn.




Can you expand on this more? What do you mean edibles are not cubensis, an earlier post said cubes are cubes so I guess I'm missing the difference.

And you use bags for spawn because you can get more mycelium into a bag vs a jar?

And one last question, how many generations can I go with grain to grain transfers, as well as agar to agar transfers.

Thanks guys!


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OfflineIzzamagic
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Re: Help a noob start cultivating [Re: plotikai]
    #26715273 - 06/02/20 11:53 PM (8 months, 29 days ago)

check out bodhisatta's profile links for unmodified tub (saves you having to cut holes and dedicate a tub for mischief, also he doesn't use a liner)

oats are a cheap grain choice. like $15 for 50 lbs at ag stores near me. prepared the same way is fine, or even no soak, ~30 min boil if you want to get crazy!

check out no-pour agar methods. very noob (and SAB) friendly, i still use them after years. "holy grail plates" or ziploc twist-n-locs

best of luck friend


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OfflineTstone
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Re: Help a noob start cultivating [Re: Izzamagic]
    #26715332 - 06/03/20 12:24 AM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Sorry bud, absolutely nothing on that plate but bad.


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OfflinePMBastian
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Re: Help a noob start cultivating [Re: Tstone] * 1
    #26715435 - 06/03/20 01:33 AM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Yea that plate is only bacteria.

And edibles means oysters and other non-psychoactive mushrooms meant for cooking with and eating. Cubes are referred to as actives, together with the other species that makes you trip.


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Offlinepoisoned
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Re: Help a noob start cultivating [Re: plotikai]
    #26715648 - 06/03/20 03:51 AM (8 months, 29 days ago)

Quote:

plotikai said:
Can you expand on this more? What do you mean edibles are not cubensis, an earlier post said cubes are cubes so I guess I'm missing the difference.





Cubes = Psilocybe cubensis. There are varieties of them like B+, Golden teachers, ecuador, ..., but there's not a lot of difference between them. They will all grow in same conditions and be similarly potent.

There's a lot of other species of shrooms. Many of them are also active, but they are not cubes. Things like Psilocybe semilanceata, Psilocybe serbica or Panaeolus cyanecscens. They are of different potency, will require different conditions and some of them are really hard to fruit indoors.

And then you have a shit ton of edible mushrooms like portobello, porcini, morels, various manes, ..., none of them is cubensis either.


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OfflineAZBOXINGFAN1
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Re: Help a noob start cultivating [Re: poisoned]
    #26715653 - 06/03/20 03:57 AM (8 months, 29 days ago)

I'm new and don't know who to ask, So hopefully you can help me. You seem to know what you're talking about. 
I just started my first all in one grow bag I added my spores, waited for 13 days and I thought my spores were at least 3/4 colonized but I think I was wrong and  I crushed them up and mixed everything in the bag like I was told to do. Well 15 days later and now my bag was really colonized  so I mixed it all up again and put it back in my box. Do you think they'll still start to ping and I can move it to the fruiting stage? I hope I make sense and sorry for just asking you a question without asking you if I could ask you first? I'm so confused!


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Offlineplotikai
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Re: Help a noob start cultivating [Re: AZBOXINGFAN1]
    #26775508 - 06/22/20 11:43 PM (8 months, 9 days ago)

Hey guys, an update on some more agar failure and I suspect plain old bad LC....

So I did a new batch of agar and put it on agar and got a lot of what I suspect is mold (can someone confirm?). I then put the rest of the LC into grain spawn and haven't gotten any germination whatsoever, in-fact it looks like 2 of them ended up with contamination, even after being sterilized... it must've gotten in when I opened up to inject LC


Next, I got some spawn and did a g2g transfer can someone confirm how this looks, also how many times can I g2g transfer?



I'm not sure what's going on with my LC, I suspect its completely contaminated, but is it possible my agar mix is just garbage? I am thinking of trying a different vendor on my next agar plus I am going to try a grain to agar transfer, maybe that will answer my agar question. Could just be bad LC??

Thanks again for the continued help and advice, ill keep sharing my experience as I go


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Offlinelefty24
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Re: Help a noob start cultivating [Re: plotikai]
    #26775813 - 06/23/20 04:44 AM (8 months, 9 days ago)

As a beginner without a flowhood it's much easier to make BRF jars, pressure cook them, then spawn them to coir. Grain has a lot more room for error during hydration and pressure cooking.


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Invisiblegrownright
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Re: Help a noob start cultivating [Re: plotikai]
    #26775977 - 06/23/20 08:30 AM (8 months, 9 days ago)

Quote:

plotikai said:
Hey guys, an update on some more agar failure and I suspect plain old bad LC....

So I did a new batch of agar and put it on agar and got a lot of what I suspect is mold (can someone confirm?). I then put the rest of the LC into grain spawn and haven't gotten any germination whatsoever, in-fact it looks like 2 of them ended up with contamination, even after being sterilized... it must've gotten in when I opened up to inject LC


Next, I got some spawn and did a g2g transfer can someone confirm how this looks, also how many times can I g2g transfer?



I'm not sure what's going on with my LC, I suspect its completely contaminated, but is it possible my agar mix is just garbage? I am thinking of trying a different vendor on my next agar plus I am going to try a grain to agar transfer, maybe that will answer my agar question. Could just be bad LC??

Thanks again for the continued help and advice, ill keep sharing my experience as I go





Those plates are all bad. Are you working inside of a SAB? Are you practicing good sterile technique? Making sure you're in a draft free room and your movements in the SAB arent stirring up air in it?

The top grain jar needs to be thrown out. LC is only good when it's clean and its only clean when its made from a clean agar culture. Until you get your agar plates down pat I would stay away from LCs


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Offlineplotikai
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Re: Help a noob start cultivating [Re: grownright]
    #26813530 - 07/09/20 08:47 PM (7 months, 23 days ago)

Hey Everyone, heres an update with a couple questions I have:



Day 0


Day 3


Shoebox Day 3



Questions:
- It took about 2 weeks to fully colonize my jars, I broke them up once, is that a normal timeline?
- My shoebox seems to have a lot more moisture than my 60qt, is that a good amount of moisture?
- How many generations can I go with g2g transfers?
- Can I store colonized agar plates in the fridge?
- How long will those plates survive in the fridge?
- Same thing with colonized jars? If I'm not ready for them, how long can I store them in the fridge for?

Thanks for the help! Next stop fruiting!


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Offlineplotikai
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Re: Help a noob start cultivating [Re: plotikai]
    #26829478 - 07/17/20 07:34 PM (7 months, 15 days ago)

Hey guys, gunna bump to hopefully get some of my previous questions answered. I've also got an update and looks like I've got some fruiting happening in my 30l unmodified tub but my shoebox seems to be fully colonized but not pinning at all, they both started at the same time, do I just need to be more patient? Is my humidity off? What should I be looking for?



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