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Fischer
Teonanacatalyst


Registered: 06/03/10
Posts: 565
Loc: Downunder
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When adding coffee to grain soak, is there any reason to separate coffee grounds?
#26670473 - 05/14/20 11:45 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Given that I've seen spent coffee grounds used by TCs as an addition to bulk substrate for nutrient supplementation, and coffee (solution) suggested as an addition to grain soaks (for nutrients/pH?), is there any reason not to just brew coffee in a jug and dump the whole thing into the soaking grains?
Is there something about the presence of coffee grounds which would negatively affect the colonisation of the spawn?
Edited by Fischer (05/14/20 11:47 AM)
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poisoned
untitled



Registered: 04/17/13
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Re: When adding coffee to grain soak, is there any reason to separate coffee grounds? [Re: Fischer]
#26670477 - 05/14/20 11:47 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Check the dates on those posts where coffee is discussed.
No one does that anymore.
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Mugnath



Registered: 05/24/12
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Loc: Oregon
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Re: When adding coffee to grain soak, is there any reason to separate coffee grounds? [Re: poisoned] 2
#26670481 - 05/14/20 11:49 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I did coffee back in the day. Don't go there, it'll increase the chance of contams overrunning your myc.
Edited by Mugnath (05/14/20 11:51 AM)
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Fischer
Teonanacatalyst


Registered: 06/03/10
Posts: 565
Loc: Downunder
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Re: When adding coffee to grain soak, is there any reason to separate coffee grounds? [Re: Mugnath]
#26670547 - 05/14/20 12:31 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
poisoned said: Check the dates on those posts where coffee is discussed.
No one does that anymore.
Not even as a grain soak? Frank's WBS prep might be 7 years old, but I haven't come across anything else that's jumped out at me as a new state of the art in grain prep (maybe BOD's Oats?)
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Mugnath



Registered: 05/24/12
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Loc: Oregon
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Re: When adding coffee to grain soak, is there any reason to separate coffee grounds? [Re: Fischer]
#26670591 - 05/14/20 12:51 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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You are trying to colonize, and while coffee is good for your flushes, it won't aid in colonization and may hinder it. Coffee is known to be very nutritious, and can aid contamination outpacing your Myc when in abundance in bulk substrate. A small portion in a WBS mix won't hurt, but WBS already works on its own well.
RR, "- I was the first one to bring the use of coffee to the community a few years ago. Here's a 50+ page thread to read if you have the energy. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/2283143#Post2283143 You can use weak coffee to hydrate your pf cakes. Use it at 1/2 drinking strength, but no more. Too much coffee actually slows down colonization. Some growers thing it's the nitrogen, some think it's the 'nutes', others think it's the antioxidants, etc. All I know is it works and helps, but as said, use weak coffee, not drinking strength.
- Properly used, coffee will decrease colonization time, and provide more prolific flushes. I've proved that for many years. A common mistake with coffee is using it too strong. As I've said countless times, it needs to be at 1/2 normal drinking strength. That means if you use a standard amount of coffee in your trusty Mr. Coffee, mix it half and half with plain water after brewing, and then use that to hydrate your grains. Mixing it stronger is counterproductive and will increase colonization times.
- Correct. Spent coffee grinds are an excellent substrate material/additive, and 1/2 the normal drinking strength (or less) liquid coffee can be used to hydrate grains prior to sterilization. It doesn't matter if it's rye or wbs. If you use it stronger than 1/2 drinking strength, it will slow down colonization. That means for every cup of brewed coffee you use, add one or two cups of plain water, and use that to hydrate the grains.
- Correct. I add a teaspoon of hydrated lime to each two to three gallons of weak coffee/water mix. Use coffee at no more than 1/2 the normal 'drinking' strength. Too much coffee will actually slow down growth, lime or not
- Use weak liquid coffee. Instant would be fine. It's part nutrients and part the lower pH that coffee provides. Rinsing before the soak is also an important part. That gets all the dust and chaff out of the grain.
- If you don't drink coffee, try using something else instead, like bagged chicken manure from the nursery. Use it at no more than 1 part chicken manure to 20 parts of the other substrate materials. The reason I say that is coffee is pretty darned expensive to buy for a substrate. If you drink coffee anyway, no problem, but otherwise there are other materials that work as well. Coffee should be brewed before using. You can brew up a pot of coffee, then use the liquid coffee to hydrate your rye or wbs, and save the spent grinds for your substrate.
- Quite often, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Coffee has thousands of elements, nitrogen only being one of them. Coffee works, period. Who really cares 'what' causes it to work? Folgers and Hills Bros work as well as Starbucks. I've seen no real evidence that coffee increases potency. It does decrease colonization times, and provides for more prolific flushes. The results are particularly astounding with sclerotia producing species, but every mushroom species I've ever grown has done better with coffee than without it. Reishi on coffee can even."
A tek that has become the general standard for WBS is Fooman's. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8508523/fpart/1
Edited by Mugnath (05/14/20 01:00 PM)
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Fischer
Teonanacatalyst


Registered: 06/03/10
Posts: 565
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Re: When adding coffee to grain soak, is there any reason to separate coffee grounds? [Re: Mugnath]
#26670653 - 05/14/20 01:21 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mugnath said: You are trying to colonize, and while coffee is good for your flushes, it won't aid in colonization and may hinder it. Coffee is known to be very nutritious, and can aid contamination outpacing your Myc when in abundance in bulk substrate. A small portion in a WBS mix won't hurt, but WBS already works on its own well.
Understood - thanks for the refs. So to recap and make sure I'm not getting brewed coffee confused with coffee grounds:
- Weak brewed coffee in pre-sterilisation grain soak is good, but not to the point where it's a must-have.
- Spent coffee grounds might be bad in spawn colonisation, and increase contam risk in bulk substrate even if they are helpful there.
That about right?
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Mugnath



Registered: 05/24/12
Posts: 733
Loc: Oregon
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Re: When adding coffee to grain soak, is there any reason to separate coffee grounds? [Re: Fischer]
#26670728 - 05/14/20 02:21 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Sounds about right.
Edited by Mugnath (05/14/20 02:23 PM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: When adding coffee to grain soak, is there any reason to separate coffee grounds? [Re: Mugnath]
#26670829 - 05/14/20 03:07 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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"state of the art"
Adding coffee is decades old. It doesn't seem to change a thing except your contamination rate.
Grain already had plenty of nitrogen. More nutrients than gets used up in a grow anyway.
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Fischer
Teonanacatalyst


Registered: 06/03/10
Posts: 565
Loc: Downunder
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Re: When adding coffee to grain soak, is there any reason to separate coffee grounds? [Re: bodhisatta]
#26671211 - 05/14/20 06:34 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Gotcha. Thanks for the info.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,890
Loc: Milky way
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Re: When adding coffee to grain soak, is there any reason to separate coffee grounds? [Re: Fischer]
#26671944 - 05/15/20 04:54 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Your grow may go 3-5 flushes easily. Usually people toss after 1 or 2 flushes. But even after 5 flushes your grow substrate will be 1/2 its original size and if you cut into it you'll still see pieces of your grain spawn still being digested.
Our grows have more than enough nutrition locked inside. Concentrate on growing skills and the finesse to get the yields out of what you have before trying to find the nitrous button.
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Fischer
Teonanacatalyst


Registered: 06/03/10
Posts: 565
Loc: Downunder
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Re: When adding coffee to grain soak, is there any reason to separate coffee grounds? [Re: bodhisatta]
#26674431 - 05/16/20 09:15 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Will-do.
Can't really assess whether a change is beneficial or not until you've got a consistent baseline, and it's been... a minute since I last grew mushrooms. And then, poorly.
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