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OfflinePadrey
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Syrian Rue / Harmine FB and Shrooms
    #26667506 - 05/12/20 08:54 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Hello all, I am preparing myself for a journey in the coming weeks. And seek some information regarding Syrian Rue / Harmine FB to potentiate and lengthen a mushroom tea trip. Pretty much a Psilohuasca experience, just using mushrooms as my tryptamine alkaloid with MAOI.

I have both Syrian rue seeds and Harmine FB enroute. My main questions are best methods of consumption. For the Syrian rue seeds, I'm trying to find a tea recipe that isn't going to incite nausea like most that I've read online. I consume mushrooms via tea to avoid stomach issues due to having a rather weak stomach.

As for the Harmine FB , not sure what the best way to vape / consume it would be. I'm an old head by today's standards I guess and don't do dabs etc, I stick with flower so vaping isn't in my repertoire. I'm not interested in sublingually taking it. I imagine letting it dissolve has to be rough on mouth and teeth. I've read some anecdotal reports that the FB can mixed with orange juice to make it orally consumable or it can be sandwiched and smoked with flower. I'm trying to avoid the reported drowsiness some associate with Harmaline which is why I ordered Harmine FB in addition to the rue. I do eventually plan to test both to see what I find more preferable for me. 

Anyone have any experience or could offer some sound advice?


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InvisiblePrimal Glitch
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Re: Syrian Rue / Harmine FB and Shrooms [Re: Padrey] * 1
    #26667540 - 05/12/20 09:17 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

you can swallow harmala freebase,
and extracting it from seeds is easy.

200mg is a standard dose I think.
take it an hour before the shroom tea


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                                  make the changa you wish to see in the world
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OfflinePadrey
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Re: Syrian Rue / Harmine FB and Shrooms [Re: Primal Glitch]
    #26667549 - 05/12/20 09:25 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

No point in trying to smoke / vape the FB? Can totally get behind oral ingestion as it seems like it would have a relatively lighter impact on stomach as opposed to 2-4g of Rue into a vinegar tea.


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A wise man plants trees , knowing he will never sit in their shade.


Edited by Padrey (05/12/20 09:25 PM)


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InvisiblePrimal Glitch
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Re: Syrian Rue / Harmine FB and Shrooms [Re: Padrey]
    #26667561 - 05/12/20 09:32 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I like changa but have no experience in smoking pure harmalas :shrug2:
and yes, it's very much smoother on the stomach than rue tea


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                                  make the changa you wish to see in the world
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Re: Syrian Rue / Harmine FB and Shrooms [Re: Primal Glitch]
    #26667569 - 05/12/20 09:38 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Have a good changa recipe that you like that you wouldn't mind sharing?


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Re: Syrian Rue / Harmine FB and Shrooms [Re: Padrey]
    #26667616 - 05/12/20 10:09 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

a 2:2:1 ratio will give you some very potent stuff

2 parts of your herb of choice
2 parts DMT
1 part harmalas

add ethanol untill everything is dissolved and mix while it evaporates

:rocket:


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                                  make the changa you wish to see in the world
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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Syrian Rue / Harmine FB and Shrooms [Re: Primal Glitch] * 1
    #26667709 - 05/12/20 11:53 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah you can swallow the freebased Harmine powder as is (or encapsulate it), freebased Harmalas work just fine orally, no need to convert to salt form, i always consume my Harmalas in freebased form because i can use it orally, sublingually, or smoke/vape it. You can even put it on top of some bud and smoke away, works like a charm. Freebased DMT on the other hand, needs to be properly vaped or else you'll burn it, but Harmalas seem to have a higher boiling point or something so smoking works just fine. The dosage for pure Harmine is considered to be 150mgs to 250mgs, 200mgs is just right. Take the Rue or Harmine, wait an hour on the dot, and then drink the mushroom tea. Sometimes you can take the Psilocybin/DMT 30 minutes after the Rue/Harmalas, but ime an hour between is best.

For the Rue, i would recommend skipping the tea, roasting the whole seeds, powdering the seeds in a coffee grinder (or crushing them after being roasted, roasted seeds will probably be easier/softer to grind up with like a mortar and pestle or what not, especially compared to non-roasted seed, imo). Then, simply encapsulate the seed powder. Roasted seed powder is way gentler on the gut than raw seed powder, at least when properly roasted. But even raw seed powder isn't rough on the gut in the 2 to 3 gram range, 3.5 grams and up though can bring nausea, and over 4 grams is likely to make one vomit. 2 grams is a lighter dosage though, works for Psilohuasca, but 3 to 4.5 grams is ime more proper Huasca territory.

Just keep in mind, the Huasca has different effects/layers as the dosage goes up, whether using Caapi, Rue, or Harmala extracts, but it will take some time and experimentation to play with the dosages and figure out what works best for you, but the heavier Harmala territory, when you're more comfortable and familiar with it, is imo highly worth investigating. And don't be afraid of the purge, sometimes it just needs to happen, so just in case, always have a trusty bucket around lined with a plastic bag within reach. And don't shy away from the sedation and trancy-nature of the Rue, while you can get up and move around on light to moderate dosages, higher dosages make it much more of an internal journey/experience and for that you want to remain seated/laying down for the first say 2 to 3 hours or so, but once the come up passes, generally you're good, and can then get up and move around and do whatever, just be safe, be responsible, be wise.


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OfflineSabnock
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Re: Syrian Rue / Harmine FB and Shrooms [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #26667717 - 05/12/20 11:59 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Also as an aside, you can also experiment around with adding some pure Harmine to the Rue, so like taking 2 to 2.5 to 3 grams of Rue, and then adding 100 to 150 to 200mgs of Harmine with it, i've had a few experiences with that and the extra Harmine is nice and synergizes nicely with the full spectrum Rue. Personally i prefer the seed over isolated Harmalas because it has way more of a plant feel and a character/personality, as well as other benefits due to the other compounds, whereas the isolated Harmalas just feel like isolated compounds, still works fine and can definitely be useful, but full spectrum is imo overall better. Even the homemade full spectrum Rue extract seems lighter/cleaner but not as full as the actual seed. But they're all worth investigating imo.


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Re: Syrian Rue / Harmine FB and Shrooms [Re: Sabnock]
    #26667720 - 05/13/20 12:01 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

My best ever Psilohuasca experience though, so far, was with 2.5 grams of Rue seed powder encapsulated, followed an hour later, iirc, with 35mgs of 4-ACO-DMT and 4 grams of Lemon Balm tea. Amazing experience dude lol. Keep in mind though, definitely probably wanna stick to 2 to 2.5 to 3 to 3.5 grams of mushrooms when mixing it with the Rue/Harmalas, it can be potentiated a good bit, and the duration lengthens out to like 9 to 12 hours. But it's well worth it :P


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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: Syrian Rue / Harmine FB and Shrooms [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #26667725 - 05/13/20 12:03 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I want to add that ~200mg of pure alkaloids is the prefered oral dose.

Vaped / smoke you need much less. 20 to 30mg smoked is enough to get full effects. It lasts only half an hour to an hour or so, vaped.

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Re: Syrian Rue / Harmine FB and Shrooms [Re: Pandemoon]
    #26667751 - 05/13/20 12:15 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I remember one experience i had with smoked Rue seed i think, not extract, where me and my gf had smoked it with some bud on top of like i think a 50mg 4-ACO-DMT experience and 4.5 grams of Lemon Balm tea, and smoking the Rue, although a little milder compared to taking it orally, definitely changed the nature/flavor of the experience, made it more Huasca-like, and still felt it a good few hours after smoking the Rue. But yeah with lighter dosages of smoked Harmalas it seems to not last as long.


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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: Syrian Rue / Harmine FB and Shrooms [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #26667756 - 05/13/20 12:20 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, I used to smoke plain seeds along with bud in my bong. Yes you can smoke the seeds with very good results, no need to extract if you want to smoke harmalas.
Just a fingertip of seeds onto the herb is all you need. Works even better in a joint. Tastes funky.

For changa it's good to use pure alkaloids though.

Always got super stoned for quite a long time. Definitely longer than without the rue seeds. :thumbup:

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Re: Syrian Rue / Harmine FB and Shrooms [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #26667760 - 05/13/20 12:27 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Appreciate the input sabnock. You definitely have given me some decent food for thought. What is your process for roasting the rue seeds?


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Re: Syrian Rue / Harmine FB and Shrooms [Re: Padrey] * 1
    #26667770 - 05/13/20 12:35 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Padrey said:
Appreciate the input sabnock. You definitely have given me some decent food for thought. What is your process for roasting the rue seeds?




Well i roast mine in bulk, enough seed to cover the whole pan but making sure it's not dense or on top of each other. I roast mine in the oven at 350 degrees f for about 19 or 20 minutes. For smaller batches of seed, 350 degrees should still be fine, but maybe 5 to 10 minutes, definitely wanna check the seeds periodically and move them around while roasting to avoid burning them. Some on the DMT Nexus have recommended using like a skillet or something on the stove eye i think at like medium to medium high heat for a few minutes, i can't remember exactly, but should work fine as well. The seed color should get a bit lighter/browner/kind of golden yellowish, and the aroma/smell should smell a bit more like a nutty chocolatey coffee-like kinda smell, if it smells burnt you've probably burned them.


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Re: Syrian Rue / Harmine FB and Shrooms [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #26669453 - 05/13/20 09:02 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Also, just wanted to add, if you wanna block out the nausea/vomiting from the Rue/Harmalas (although Harmala extract doesn't cause much in the way of nausea, but with a high dosage can still lead to vomiting), get ahold of some pure Limonene (you can find it on amazon), and take 10 drops in a capsule, an hour before dosing the Rue/Harmalas (or perhaps nightly, at bed time), and see how that goes. There used to be talk online that Lemon essential oil can be useful for Psychedelic-induced nausea/vomiting, and my own experimentation with Lemon EO is that it's true, however, i started investigating individual/isolated terpenes and have identified Limonene as the anti-emetic compound found in Lemon EO, the supposed active that people attributed to the anti-emetic effects, Beta-Pinene, doesn't actually do anything for nausea/vomiting that i've noticed, neither does the Alpha-Pinene, Limonene seems to be the only thing that's worked so far.

I've also tried Ginger root pieces, Ginger tea, Ginger EO, Peppermint tea, Peppermint EO, and Zofran, neither of them worked for at least the Rue/Harmala-related nausea/vomiting, but Limonene does indeed seem to work, i believe it's because it's a prokinetic agent of some sort so it gets digesting moving, and because it seems to activate the Serotonin 1A receptor, which crosstalks with the NK1 receptor resulting in it's inhibition and resulting anti-emetic effects that are said to be attributed to Serotonin 1A agonists.

So far Limonene has been the only thing i've come across that has shown potential for counteracting Harmala-related nausea/vomiting. I still need to do more tests with DMT in the mix to see how that goes, but in the few times i've had Lemon EO with Rue and Acacia, there's been no nausea or vomiting. Though pure Limonene is best because Lemon EO has other compounds in it which can alter/influence the experience and effects, and so working with pure Limonene is imo better. If anyone else tries this out, be sure to let me know how it went for you.


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Re: Syrian Rue / Harmine FB and Shrooms [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #26669844 - 05/14/20 02:07 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

the worst nausea comes from the first week or so of dosing with rue as well - if you have plenty of the stuff to experiment with, you can do a daily dose of 200 mg of oral alkaloids (preferably during a time when you're not working and have a hour or three free near a bathroom, just in  case) and take it with a light snack to settle the stomach- i find it easier to take with a coke to mask any "rue burps", or coffee.

most of the nausea comes from the raw seeds, so cleaning it up to the alkaloids helps a lot right off the bat - spending a week or so to allow your body to adjust to the effects helps further. that said, some people just have sensitive stomachs when it comes to psychedelics themselves, especially shrooms or dmt, like me. :P so, always be prepared for all your efforts to come to naught! (lol)


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Re: Syrian Rue / Harmine FB and Shrooms [Re: Psion]
    #26669868 - 05/14/20 02:32 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Yup, building up the Harmala reverse tolerance by taking it regularly will get your body used to it and the side-effects will go away on their own. Though Limonene during the first little bit can help in the mean time to counteract the purgative effects. Also why i recommend roasting the Rue seeds prior to grinding, instead of ingesting the raw seed, roasted seed is far more tolerable on the gut compared to raw seed, roasted seed imo feels pretty much the same as the extract in terms of reduced nausea/stomach discomfort.


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Re: Syrian Rue / Harmine FB and Shrooms [Re: Sabnock] * 1
    #26669947 - 05/14/20 03:47 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I'll grab some Limonene to have on hand just incase. I am a relatively skinny and short individual so I plan to try a lower than suggested oral dose of harmalas. Prefer to be safe when testing new substances.

I plan to take an oral dose of 100g Harmine FB this weekend and perhaps eh following day to judge tolerance effects. I will then preparing the roasted rue powder for an oral dose of 2g the following weekend.
Want to gauge how they will react with my biochemistry before mixing shrooms into the equation. Whichever I found more enjoyable will probably be used to compliment a trip the following weekend after the rue test.

If all goes well I plan to take:
100-150mg Harmine FB or 2-3g Rue
2.5g Cubensis Tea an hour later
1.5-2G Cubensis Tea for sipping during peak if I haven't quite got to where I want to be


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OfflinePsion
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Re: Syrian Rue / Harmine FB and Shrooms [Re: Padrey] * 1
    #26670875 - 05/14/20 03:29 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Padrey said:
I'll grab some Limonene to have on hand just incase. I am a relatively skinny and short individual so I plan to try a lower than suggested oral dose of harmalas. Prefer to be safe when testing new substances.

I plan to take an oral dose of 100g Harmine FB this weekend and perhaps eh following day to judge tolerance effects. I will then preparing the roasted rue powder for an oral dose of 2g the following weekend.
Want to gauge how they will react with my biochemistry before mixing shrooms into the equation. Whichever I found more enjoyable will probably be used to compliment a trip the following weekend after the rue test.

If all goes well I plan to take:
100-150mg Harmine FB or 2-3g Rue
2.5g Cubensis Tea an hour later
1.5-2G Cubensis Tea for sipping during peak if I haven't quite got to where I want to be




i hope you meant mg and not g :rofl2: i'm pretty sure 100g would put you in the graveyard, its a forgiving substance but not THAT forgiving LOL


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OfflinePadrey
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Re: Syrian Rue / Harmine FB and Shrooms [Re: Psion]
    #26670951 - 05/14/20 04:06 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah 100mg was the intention. I'm not that brave.


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