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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: What is Love? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26667124 - 05/12/20 05:45 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
You can always start bonding with them.  Might do you some good, but you’ll have to work past the initial period, where through the moments where it feels enchanted and fake etc.  Empty or not, even if total emptiness was all there was and everything was a grand illusion, we still have to eat, shit, and sleep, and have relations with the world and things in it.  Might as well learn to find comfort and ease in that enchantment.  Going on the internet is the same, but you’ve gotten used to it to a degree.  Everything new requires some “handeling”
You can do it man, I know you can.  Go love them doggies.

Unless they are tiny dogs...

Then definitely don’t love them because they’re just fake dogos :wink:

A real doge is a fetch doge who likes to walk in the woods with you.

That’s my bias :heart:

Mainly because my ex. Her “dog” was small and spoiled rotten. :rofl:




Even if I did make it past the "unreality" which is hard because of the fear but slowly getting better, philosophy has pretty much ruined the rest of my life.

I missed feeling like a small part in a great world/universe, which is why I hate/don't want solipsism to be true.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: What is Love? [Re: oculodextro] * 1
    #26667129 - 05/12/20 05:48 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

 





"Ollie" or more commonly known as "Shit head"


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Just a fool on the hill.


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Offlineoculodextro
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26667142 - 05/12/20 05:57 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:

Even if I did make it past the "unreality" which is hard because of the fear but slowly getting better, philosophy has pretty much ruined the rest of my life.

I missed feeling like a small part in a great world/universe, which is why I hate/don't want solipsism to be true.




Brah you need to camp, get out in fucking nature, and be amazed at this world you may or may not have created! I know South Florida sucks too, you need to get as far away from that cesspool as possible (born and raised SoFLa)


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OfflinePsion
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Re: What is Love? [Re: oculodextro]
    #26667337 - 05/12/20 07:22 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Lol, solipsism cant be true then, cause one of my trips a lil over a year ago I caught glimpses of the fractal, multidimensional nature of the multiverse and its unending, ever growing reach into infinities. You feel laughably tiny then, even as you realize how important you are, as a conscious being, with the ability to interact and impact this whole of creation, however tiny that change.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Psion]
    #26667359 - 05/12/20 07:32 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Get a pet Greenland shark, they will out live you and then some
:cookiemonster:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: What is Love? [Re: oculodextro]
    #26667453 - 05/12/20 08:18 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Psion said:
Lol, solipsism cant be true then, cause one of my trips a lil over a year ago I caught glimpses of the fractal, multidimensional nature of the multiverse and its unending, ever growing reach into infinities. You feel laughably tiny then, even as you realize how important you are, as a conscious being, with the ability to interact and impact this whole of creation, however tiny that change.




So your evidence for solipsism not being true is that you had a sensory experience that could not be verified? I mean that is that very thing that solipsism doubts so it doesn't count.

Quote:

oculodextro said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:

Even if I did make it past the "unreality" which is hard because of the fear but slowly getting better, philosophy has pretty much ruined the rest of my life.

I missed feeling like a small part in a great world/universe, which is why I hate/don't want solipsism to be true.




Brah you need to camp, get out in fucking nature, and be amazed at this world you may or may not have created! I know South Florida sucks too, you need to get as far away from that cesspool as possible (born and raised SoFLa)




I really don't get the whole bit about Florida, it's honestly just fine where I am. But camping would make it worse since the "unreality" follows me everywhere, and so I can't be a small part in a great world/universe. Now it just feels like the world and life is so small and closed.

I'm doomed with solipsism and doomed without it due to philosophy.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflinePsion
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26667553 - 05/12/20 09:27 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

no, i'm saying it can't be true because if i was a figment of your imagination, you wouldn't have lost the feeling of being a tiny part of a huge universe - because i sure as hell still feel that way. if i was simply a part of your imagination, how could you have lost that feeling? you would just be imagining me, so you couldn't have lost that feeling - because if you were just imagining me, you could still imagine feeling that sensation too!

since you misplaced that sensation, clearly i'm not a figment of your imagination (although that doesn't exclude the possibility that you're a figment of my imagination ;3 ) so that kind of shoots a few holes in your theory.

anyways, philosophers are those who seek the truth. a sage is one who's found the truth. just a fun random fact you might've not known.

but one of those truths you have to learn is that there's more than one kind of knowledge, and not all truths cannot be reasoned out. sometimes... you have to feel it in your heart, the way you laugh at a good joke without thinking about it. sometimes you have to learn when you're overthinking something and learn to just accept something with gratitude, blemishes and all.

no, the worlds not perfect. it's full of pain and suffering, of disease and malaise and terrible things. but it's also full of wonderful things, of kittens and song, of dance and video games and delicious foods and terrible dad jokes and hugs from loving mothers, whether they're blood related or they decided to make you their son out of love.

you can choose to see the bad in the world, or you can choose to see what is good, and improve on it, to strengthen that song of joy, to drown out the noise that threatens the song of life. add your voice to the choir, and you will slowly realize that each of us has a part to play, that only we can do.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Psion]
    #26667591 - 05/12/20 09:51 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I honestly see no difference between a philosopher and a sage besides semantics. Either way philosophy has ruined everything I once loved. Honestly that’s just been reading in general, every new thing I learn makes life less worthwhile to continue living.

In regards to a joke there is a science behind it that explains why we find it funny so it’s not something beyond logic.

To “strengthen the song of joy” you would literally need to be a psychopath since to be alive means to live at the expense of things around you. Just like in the wild animals kill to survive so does anything else in one way or another.

Your first part doesn’t really negate solipsism, because losing that feeling has nothing to do with you being a figment. That feeling before solipsism could have just be unreal as well. You need to reread that because the logic doesn’t follow.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflinePsion
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26667620 - 05/12/20 10:11 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

but how do i know things that you don't know? how do you not know things that i do know?

do you really think that somehow you dreamed up every single science and piece of technology that existed? come on now. do you walk up to an advanced organic chemistry class and go to the teacher and go "s'ok teach, i got this" and proceed to teach the class? i can assure you that you do not, because you don't know jack about organic chemistry. (or maybe you do, but you most assuredly do not know everything about every topic. we cannot be figments because you do not have omniscience. you cannot alter reality - if this was all a delusion of yours, you'd be able to alter it.

therefore you are not the only being. the fact that you live and learn from others and nature itself instead of already knowing everything shows that you are not. you are interacting with other things, and learning from doing so. you are interacting. you're not just having some running monologue with yourself - if you were you could simply alter the world and it's inhabitants to your whim, like you do with a daydream. instead your stuck with this stubborn nuisance of a hippy who keeps spouting love and joy and kittens at you. :superkitty:

and seriously, where would you even possess the brainpower to simulate even a fraction of the 5 billion plus souls on the planet? and that's just the humans? plus the animals. plus the insects. plus the landscape. even if you were to just take into account the immediate vicinity and objects you interact with, that's a ridiculous amount of simulation - and that's just to create the IMAGE. now you have to create a lifelike AI on the fly for those things? interact with them, creating unique personalities for each person, animal, insect, adding in physics that are consistent for each object, plus your own body? the brains powerful, but it's not nearly THAT powerful. you'd be cooking eggs on your head from all the overheating.

and reread that quote i posted a few pages back. yes, you can have the science of explaining a joke... but you lose something in the process. it simply does not do to explain the workings of a joke.


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Offlineoculodextro
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Psion]
    #26667663 - 05/12/20 10:56 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Can you create music, art, computers??? If society got wrecked good luck rebuilding that shit by yourself!


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InvisibleTantrika
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26668014 - 05/13/20 05:50 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
I honestly see no difference between a philosopher and a sage besides semantics. Either way philosophy has ruined everything I once loved. Honestly that’s just been reading in general, every new thing I learn makes life less worthwhile to continue living.
...




Have you studied much Hinduism (aside from Advaita)?

at McGill University, Buddhism really took popular precedence over Hinduism in terms of student interest for study
but one of my professors made a comment that really stuck with me
"Buddhism and Hinduism both go to the same place, but Hinduism decides to celebrate the whole way there"
in other words; philisophical traditions and religious traditions are each a form of lived language to discuss the same thing

Hinduism does certainly have Advaita Vedanta as a very formative philosophical tradition contained within it
but it also has other traditions like Bhakti
and some of the more Visnu/Krisna centered religious traditions are also very Art and Life focused

actually engaging with things that make life more worthwhile to continue living will still have to be a concious choice made on your end tho
and at that point you will have to be able to pull your head out of your depression long enough to recognize that being depressed is the choice you are making

you can change your lived experience by changing the lived language used to describe that experience tho


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OfflinePsion
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26668622 - 05/13/20 01:19 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

hmm, yeah, i always found nirvana to be a kind of... eh? it always struck me as a kind of creepy, disgusting thing to wish for. no desires? no conciousness? just unending peace? noooooo thankies.

that's like the antithesis of everything of life - complete obvlivion. instead of dynamic change  (with occasional pauses and rest) and growth it's complete cessation with no chance of anything different - it's a zero instead of infinities stretching into the darkness.

and nature abhors a vacuum.

better to create the heaven within yourself, than to try and seek the peace of oblivion. sure the former is more work, but the reward is so much more fun - and you can't go back once you've fully traveled the latter path.


Edited by Psion (05/13/20 01:19 PM)


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Psion]
    #26668650 - 05/13/20 01:45 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Don’t know where you got that from, but as taught in Buddhist traditions- is more along the lines of:

Release, from the whole mass of suffering and craving in this life time, is a much closer approximation, if I had to put it into 1 word or very concisely.

Far apart from all deluded views, or unfabricated, unconditioned, primordial reality in a state of natural relaxation, blissful wisdom being,

One who has gone beyond the reach of Mara’s sight., etc etc.

Settling the “Great Matter”, one who has completed the work of the sage, etc.

Also, Nirvana as discussed in many cases, is a part of the lower teachings, for those who cling to a dualistic view of reality - is see it mostly in the

public arena and by those promulgating without credibility ( maybe full context or appropriate view is better than credibility ). 
Although I’m sure, words like oblivion are used to convey a sense of it symbolically/metaphorically -  as to one who has become a sotopanna or beyond, etc.

Maha- Ati - is more in line with abhidhamma, or higher teachings.

Lastly, the gradual and the immediate paths of the Buddha dhamma are not incommensurate, not at all, rather the opposite.  Hence, why two ways of understanding are used to be skillfully faithful to the 2 dimensions of human experience - relative and absolute.  Together, they deepen each other - are complimentary.

Samsara or/and Nirvana, whatever’s arising in awareness is fundamentally pristine Mind - Maha - Ati.


--------------------
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Edited by The Blind Ass (05/13/20 02:14 PM)


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Offlinecalmbumblebee


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Re: What is Love? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26668655 - 05/13/20 01:52 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

The only love that exists beyond normal love is getting up and removing suffering and pain
That is beyond love because suffering and pain is not something anything wants or likes


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Tantrika]
    #26668697 - 05/13/20 02:22 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Tantrika said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
I honestly see no difference between a philosopher and a sage besides semantics. Either way philosophy has ruined everything I once loved. Honestly that’s just been reading in general, every new thing I learn makes life less worthwhile to continue living.
...




Have you studied much Hinduism (aside from Advaita)?

at McGill University, Buddhism really took popular precedence over Hinduism in terms of student interest for study
but one of my professors made a comment that really stuck with me
"Buddhism and Hinduism both go to the same place, but Hinduism decides to celebrate the whole way there"
in other words; philisophical traditions and religious traditions are each a form of lived language to discuss the same thing

Hinduism does certainly have Advaita Vedanta as a very formative philosophical tradition contained within it
but it also has other traditions like Bhakti
and some of the more Visnu/Krisna centered religious traditions are also very Art and Life focused

actually engaging with things that make life more worthwhile to continue living will still have to be a concious choice made on your end tho
and at that point you will have to be able to pull your head out of your depression long enough to recognize that being depressed is the choice you are making

you can change your lived experience by changing the lived language used to describe that experience tho




The real problem I have is anti natalism, and as Camus said the “problem of suicide”.

From a logical point of view suicide seems to be the correct choice. As long as you are alive you have to make life worth living while suffering and pain happen without us doing anything. Boredom is another problem as you have to fill your life with things to stave it off. You don’t HAVE to experience pleasure and good things but suffering and pain are things we avoid, therefor the logical conclusion is suicide.

It’s hard for me to argue with because I think part of my justification for life is “existence bias” or the seemingly irrational drive to survive. If I HAD to stay alive then making it worthwhile would make sense. But I don’t have to live, I could kill myself and never have to deal with anything ever again. Sure my family would suffer but I would be dead and not have to deal with it anymore. I won’t have to struggle anymore, or seek out good things, there are things I want to do but with death I wouldn’t have to worry about fulfilling them or experiencing the end result of seeing them realized. No more solipsism, Antinatalism, Buddhism, etc. I wouldn’t have to worry about being alone or depressed, or making money, getting a job, finding a partner. It honestly sounds like the right choice to make from a logical point of view.

It’s a problem I haven’t found a solution to, despite thinking about it often I can’t seem to find a way to beat it. I mean I always got the line that life is worth living but then I would think “why”? Why stop me from dying if I want to die? What makes your opinion more valuable than mine? Why do I have to stay alive?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinatalism

I also wouldn’t have to deal with my obsessions anymore. You say to struggle and overcome but why not pick the option that is guaranteed? Not all who struggle make it. Maybe we should all just sleep and be troubled no more (not my call to make but just a point to see).


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26669052 - 05/13/20 05:57 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

So it’s not entirely depression but a rather serious philosophical inquiry into the supposed value we place on life.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26669160 - 05/13/20 06:46 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Camus helped me during a tough time, some of his work is rather life affirming, even when talking about suicide and depression.  Can’t remember which book/lecture, but basically suicide can be like an opt out in case shit gets way to out of wack - like a 1 time ultimate bail out, but ones own line in the sand for what’s way out of Wack can keep being pushed back and ad infinitum, allowing one to ease into the nature of reality in all its absurd wacky or nonsensical insufferable aspects.  It’s like , if I can kill myself at any time, might as well just keep going, because eventually being killed (death) will come of itself.  I’m explaining it horribly, but he had a way with words, if I find it one day I’ll pm it to you.  Really helped me out.  If your in a not so great place in life - Sisyphus can be bad place to stop reading Camus , btw.  Gotta keep going.


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: What is Love? [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26669255 - 05/13/20 07:31 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Camus helped me during a tough time, some of his work is rather life affirming, even when talking about suicide and depression.  Can’t remember which book/lecture, but basically suicide can be like an opt out in case shit gets way to out of wack - like a 1 time ultimate bail out, but ones own line in the sand for what’s way out of Wack can keep being pushed back and ad infinitum, allowing one to ease into the nature of reality in all its absurd wacky or nonsensical insufferable aspects.  It’s like , if I can kill myself at any time, might as well just keep going, because eventually being killed (death) will come of itself.  I’m explaining it horribly, but he had a way with words, if I find it one day I’ll pm it to you.  Really helped me out.  If your in a not so great place in life - Sisyphus can be bad place to stop reading Camus , btw.  Gotta keep going.




I agree with Camus that suicide is the only real question for philosophy to answer as the others are relatively moot.

But it doesn't answer the post I made in regards to suicide or anti natalism. I guess Camus didn't read Thomas Ligotti otherwise he would retract his whole body of works.


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As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Offlinechutney
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26669344 - 05/13/20 08:00 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

luv is a prolapsed asshole

that is the word of god. last time i talked to homeboy neway


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Offlineoculodextro
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Re: What is Love? [Re: chutney]
    #26669358 - 05/13/20 08:04 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

chutney said:
luv is a prolapsed asshole

that is the word of god. last time i talked to homeboy neway




We talking your prolapsed anus, or as I call them blooming onions.


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