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OfflineConvel
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Popcorn Tek 2020, is this best practice? * 2
    #26660974 - 05/09/20 09:34 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Hi mushrooms wizards,:mushroom2: I have read over 150 hours into Monotubs.
One question I finally felt like i needed to ask is whether or not the following steps for Popcorn Tek below would be best practice in 2020 with regards to removing as much starch as possible, while also including gypsum into the mix.


I have read that popcorn covered in starch from the simmering process will impede mycelial growth on the kernels, so it is important to rinse it off with hot water.

Also many people add a table spoon of Gypsum while simmering to help prevent the kernels sticking together, while also providing nutritious calcium and sulfur, which mycelium needs for healthy growth.

You will need:
- 20L bucket.
- 20L bucket with at least 50x 4mm holes drilled on the sides and bottom.
- 23qt Presto Pressure Canner.
- 12 Quart jars with (whatever) Lid Tek for gas exchange and injecting.
- Enough popcorn to fill 12 quart jars 2/3 to 3/4 full with hydrated corn.
- Food grade Gypsum or good quality garden gypsum.

Basic Overview of Steps:
1. Wash popcorn with running cold tap water in a 20L bucket with drilled holes until clean.
2. Soak popcorn for 12-24 hours in the other 20L bucket with warm water. (Add 1-2 table spoons of gypsum to help break up any starch that is released)
3. Wash the popcorn again in the 20L bucket with holes until clean with hot tap water to help remove any starches that were released during the 24 hour soak.
4. Simmer the popcorn in the 23qt pot with the lid obviously removed (add 1-2 tablespoons of gypsum). Keep stirring and scooping starch off with a fine strainer and you will eventually notice the starch bubbles will stop collecting on the surface. (You want the kernels to be firm and fully hydrated, able to crush with your fingers, but not so hydrated that they are mushy and sticking together) (When you break open some kernels every 5 minutes with your fingers/nails, you will see the inside of the kernels are dry, but every 5 minutes the insides will get more hydrated until they are fully hydrated) This keeps a close eye on the hydration process.
5. Drain the popcorn into the 20L bucket with holes and do not rinse with hot tap water as the starch should have been scooped away fully during the stirring/simmering process. Rinsing with hot water will only wash away the precious gypsum of which you will want to keep for mycelium food and to keep the grains from sticking.
6. Let the kernels sit in the bucket with holes and shake it around gently for 3 minutes until all the dripping water has drained out.
7. Pour the still steaming kernels onto a freshly washed towel laid out on the kitchen bench. Using your hand start spreading a thin patch of kernels on the towel, you will notice the steaming kernels will dry off almost instantly. Grab any broken kernels and chuck them away. The surface of the grains need to be basically dry but the insides should be fully plump with water, this will prevent water pooling in the bottom of the quart jars. The steam helps dry out the surface of the kernels.
8. Grab a handful of mostly dry but still warm kernels and fill up a quart jar 3/4 full. (You will notice condensation in the jars, but you should not have any water pooling in the bottom):thumbup:
9. Pressure Cook at 15 PSI for 90mins

* PC'ing is not recommended for hydrating the grains as you can not keep an eye on the softness of the kernels. You obviously can not open a pressure cooker while its cooking.:rolleyes:
* Coffee, glucose syrup etc were not added at the gypsum step, due to being an advanced/experimental step, not required in the fundamental Tek.:sun:

I would love to hear other peoples techniques. I know some people when they pour the grains into the strainer they either rinse with hot water or they don’t rinse with hot water. :mushroom2::cool::thumbup:
Rinsing with hot water will remove the starch and Gypsum, while not rinsing will leave behind some of the starch and Gypsum.
My technique steps above are attempting to remove all starch while finishing off the grains with the coating of Gypsum to help spawn the grain jars.

Grains being washed


Break kernels every 5 mins during the simmering process in the 23qt Pot to check moisture content. (This kernel is almost 100% hydrated)


Steaming Hot Grains being spread over a freshly washed towel


Pack Grain jars 3/4 full


Grain jars ready for PC, covered with 2 layers of foil.


Thanks a lot guys for any tips.:tongue::thumbup:


Edited by Convel (05/19/20 09:59 PM)


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OfflineMyc097
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Re: Popcorn Tek 2020, is this best practice? [Re: Convel]
    #26660983 - 05/09/20 09:40 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I would recommend oats to popcorn. More nutrients easy prep and cheaper $15 for a 50 lb bag. Popcorn is really expensive if you do a bunch of jars.


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Offlineexzile
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Re: Popcorn Tek 2020, is this best practice? [Re: Myc097]
    #26661001 - 05/09/20 09:52 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I use popcorn for years. Just got into wbs since it's cheap and now at Walmart due to season. My popcorn Tek is easy. Hydrate for 24hrs then summer for 15min wash then jar.


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OfflineConvel
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Re: Popcorn Tek 2020, is this best practice? [Re: exzile] * 1
    #26661055 - 05/09/20 10:22 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Also i must point out that Popping corn (human grade) is available in my area while Rye, WBS and oats are all out of stock.
There strangely is a lot of bulk grain shortages due to the current world wide pandemic and people panic stocking grains.
It is important to be able to use what ever grain is available, so for me right now that is Popping Corn.


Edited by Convel (05/14/20 06:34 PM)


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OfflineConvel
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Re: Popcorn Tek 2020, is this best practice? [Re: Convel]
    #26661118 - 05/09/20 10:52 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Gypsum is added as step 6, to make sure its still clinging to the kernels so when it is dried and added to jars, then the mycelium will benefit from the extra minerals, while also possibly making the grains easier to brake up when shaking.
I’ve also noticed on this site that some people put a very small pinch of gypsum into the grain jars before pressure cooking.


Edited by Convel (05/14/20 07:02 PM)


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Offlinejbgtaa
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Re: Popcorn Tek 2020, is this best practice? [Re: Convel]
    #26661143 - 05/09/20 11:05 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Oats or Pennington’s wild birdseed is probably best practice frankly. There’s a reason that most people don’t use popcorn. One of them being wild birdseed is just as easily sourced, cheaper, and works better. Past that, oats rye and millet are even cheaper and also work amazingly.


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Popcorn Tek 2020, is this best practice? [Re: jbgtaa]
    #26661236 - 05/10/20 12:00 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I haven't done popcorn, but I can definitely see it being very starchy, so I would rinse after initial straining.  I think that rinse will remove any gypsum making it worthless.  If you believe in its nutritional benefits you will be far better off adding it to your bulk substrate than your grains.  I always like to rinse my grains with boiling water from the kettle, that way they are still super hot which helps the water evaporate and give your grains that are drier on the outside and less likely to stick.  Personally, as soon as my colander has stopped dripping for a couple minutes, I throw them in an extra wide tote and spread them out so they can steam off while still hot.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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OfflineConvel
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Re: Popcorn Tek 2020, is this best practice? [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #26661261 - 05/10/20 12:16 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Machiavelliavore said:
I haven't done popcorn, but I can definitely see it being very starchy, so I would rinse after initial straining.  I think that rinse will remove any gypsum making it worthless.  If you believe in its nutritional benefits you will be far better off adding it to your bulk substrate than your grains.  I always like to rinse my grains with boiling water from the kettle, that way they are still super hot which helps the water evaporate and give your grains that are drier on the outside and less likely to stick.  Personally, as soon as my colander has stopped dripping for a couple minutes, I throw them in an extra wide tote and spread them out so they can steam off while still hot.




Thanks, for the tips.
Yes the Coir/Vermiculite will benefit from a correct amount of Gypsum too.
Thanks:thumbup:


Edited by Convel (05/14/20 07:07 PM)


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: Popcorn Tek 2020, is this best practice? [Re: Convel]
    #26661567 - 05/10/20 03:50 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Popcorn is not a very good grain to work with, but will work if you can't get anything else. If you don't want to pay for it can't get rye or oats use wild bird seed instead.

Popcorn has a huge surface area, which is why it colonizes so fast and the myc looks really nice, but there will be less mycelium, less inoculation points than rye or wbs.
It's a mediocre spawn IMO


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OfflineRainbowmycelium
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Re: Popcorn Tek 2020, is this best practice? [Re: Convel]
    #26673118 - 05/15/20 05:15 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I am trying Popcorn now..
I soaked them for 24 hours in a bucket, then put them on a hard boil, then simmer for about 30 mins, then drained and layed them on a towel to steam off moisture and dry.. then put them in tuppaware and PCed at 15psi for one hour.
I've 'nockd 2 tubs, one with an slice of agar and the other with a spore syringe.

The problem after 2 days is I can see they had began to split so I couldn't keep them in water much longer but they seem way too dry for mycelium to grow. I'm a noob but I have a sixth sense about this one. Should I have put them on the boil longer? Is it ok for them to be so dry? Any help with environment too would be great. Ideal temps etc for growing.

I would try other grains rn but I have a lot of popcorns I'm not going to eat.

Other users make it look so easy , I wonder what I'm doing wrong


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OfflineConvel
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Re: Popcorn Tek 2020, is this best practice? [Re: Rainbowmycelium]
    #26682006 - 05/19/20 09:51 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Rainbowmycelium said:
I am trying Popcorn now..
I soaked them for 24 hours in a bucket, then put them on a hard boil, then simmer for about 30 mins, then drained and layed them on a towel to steam off moisture and dry.. then put them in tuppaware and PCed at 15psi for one hour.
I've 'nockd 2 tubs, one with an slice of agar and the other with a spore syringe.

The problem after 2 days is I can see they had began to split so I couldn't keep them in water much longer but they seem way too dry for mycelium to grow. I'm a noob but I have a sixth sense about this one. Should I have put them on the boil longer? Is it ok for them to be so dry? Any help with environment too would be great. Ideal temps etc for growing.

I would try other grains rn but I have a lot of popcorns I'm not going to eat.

Other users make it look so easy , I wonder what I'm doing wrong





I just added some photos to the original post and I also modified the steps.
I have just gone through the whole process and I am quite happy with the results....I think the Popcorn Tek process is fine tuned just how it want it now.

You said you have burst Kernels and possibly under-hydrated grains?
You should not hard boil the kernels during the hydration step after completing the 24hr soak.
You should simmer the grains, which is basically a very weak boil.
If you simmer you will release starch and slowly bring the moisture content upto full hydration without over cooking the kernels and bursting too many.
Once you put the Kernels in the pressure cooker they will be put under a lot of heat stress, so you’d want to make sure you did not stress the physical integrity of the kernels before hand with a hard boil.
But maybe i am wrong. Just my 2 cents.
As for hydration, I recommend pinching the kernels every five minutes with your fingers and nails and seeing how easily it will burst open. When you burst open the kernel you can also check how dry the inside of the kernel is.
I find doing this every five minutes, you can keep a very close eye on the moisture content and you’ll know exactly when the kernels reach full hydration.:mushroom2:


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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Popcorn Tek 2020, is this best practice? [Re: Convel] * 1
    #26682026 - 05/19/20 10:00 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

You can save yourself some steps. They don't need to be rinsed or soaked. I haven't seen any benefit to doing that. Just pour them in some boiling water and leave them for 45-60 minutes. You should be able to crush a grain between your fingertips then you'll know they're ready. It's normal for them to sort of break open. It's not like some other grains where they spill starch everywhere, the starch gelatinates.


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InvisibleModularMind
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Re: Popcorn Tek 2020, is this best practice? [Re: Kizzle]
    #26682034 - 05/19/20 10:04 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Rainbowmycelium said:
I wonder what I'm doing wrong




Panicking after 2 days of seeing no growth. :shrug:


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OfflineConvel
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Re: Popcorn Tek 2020, is this best practice? [Re: Kizzle] * 1
    #26682217 - 05/19/20 11:43 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Kizzle said:
You can save yourself some steps. They don't need to be rinsed or soaked.




Good to hear you have found success with less steps, i will defiantly experiment after i have my first few successful flushes and have found my benchmark.

I have heard :mushroom2:  Paul Stamets  :mushroom2: say you can just;
1) Wash the grains with tap water to remove bugs and dirt.
2) Approximately fill the grain jars below half full.
2) Fill water directly into the grain jars so the grains are barely submerged. Then put in a teaspoon of gypsum.
3) Throw the jars straight into the pressure cooker and kill two birds with one stone. The kernels will perfectly hydrate and they will be sterilised ready for inoculation.

This technique requires fine tuning for the specific jars that you have.
So if you have 12 jars you should put in different amounts of grains and water in all 12 of the jars and then number the jars and write down the data.
When you pull the 12 jars out of the pressure cooker you can see which one hydrated perfectly and had the best success.

Then from now on you can fill the 12 jars with that exact volume of grains and water, with a dash of gypsum.

So that is a technique that I am very interested in experimenting with once I am established because it is so quick!!! :cool::thumbup:


Edited by Convel (05/19/20 11:45 PM)


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OfflinePsiloIdaho
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Re: Popcorn Tek 2020, is this best practice? [Re: Convel]
    #26682403 - 05/20/20 01:40 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

While I agree with other grain recommendations and prefer oats I'll mix it up and use other grains on a regular basis. I think popcorn works fine and use a very simple process that works:
A 2lbs bag of popcorn kernels fills 3 qt jars ( I know everyone else has said this but my 50lbs bag of oats costs the same as 14lbs of popcorn and is superior but that wasn't your question)
I boil water in a pot, dump the bags in, turn down the temp and let it cook for about 30 minutes.
Then I move the pot and let it sit for about another 30 minutes and then dump into my drain pan.
After about 30-60 minutes or whenever I get to it I load up the jars an pc them for 90 minutes.
No rinsing, no anything else. I've used gypsum with popcorn and honestly didn't recognize any benefit.


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OfflineConvel
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Re: Popcorn Tek 2020, is this best practice? [Re: PsiloIdaho]
    #26683727 - 05/20/20 04:37 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Nice work, I will try Oats in the future. Being my first grow i went with Popcorn because it was available in my area and i also felt confident that i could hydrate them properly. I agree my Tek has a lot of steps and it does take a lot of time, but for a first time grower, i wanted to be very sure i followed precise steps to give me the best chance of avoiding contamination.
Experienced growers are more likely to have success with easier Tek's, but they are also well established with a lot more skill. :smile::thumbup:


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OfflineJanuariodo
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Re: Popcorn Tek 2020, is this best practice? [Re: Convel]
    #26731586 - 06/09/20 02:15 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Hey guys, I just want to put this thread through one more use since I'm doing pocporn now! =P

The corn I got is used to feed chickens in my area (subdeveloped SA country), so it's so cheap the vendors almost pay you to take it. 2 lbs of this corn is worth less than 20 cents.
BUT, and this is a big BUT
It's ugly as fuck. Really. Must be the worst quality corn in the entire world, the kind you expect to see in apocalyptic movies. Dirty, broken, dark, covered in god knows what.

AND, I'm kind of a risk taker so of course there's still one more catch.

I don't own a pressure cooker nor do I intend to purchase one for home micology. All I have is a little electric express pot that can hold some pressure, I think close to 10 psi.
I'm following the exact same steps as OP, but I'll PC'em for 2,5 hours since my popcorn is probably closer to trash than it is to grain AND my pressure cooker sucks.

What do you guys think about this operation?


Edited by Januariodo (06/09/20 02:18 PM)


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OfflineJanuariodo
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Re: Popcorn Tek 2020, is this best practice? [Re: Januariodo]
    #26734383 - 06/10/20 01:00 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

bump?


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OfflineManifoldPrime
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Re: Popcorn Tek 2020, is this best practice? [Re: Januariodo]
    #26734451 - 06/10/20 01:31 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I think it will end in failure. Feel free to prove me wrong, but youre probably wasting your time. Does your country have horses/cattle? What are they fed? Can you get that? Oats, rye, ryegrass seed, grass seed, millet, sorghum, any one of these sounds a thousand times better than what you described.


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Offlinejbgtaa
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Re: Popcorn Tek 2020, is this best practice? [Re: ManifoldPrime]
    #26734776 - 06/10/20 04:08 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Popcorn won’t always end it failure... just more cantankerous than cereal grains. Can and has been done for decades.


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