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OfflineCokoritos
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The definitive mushroom consuming and preserving summary * 5
    #26644927 - 05/03/20 12:24 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

So after way too many hours of searching the internet, looking at posts recent and old, I never really found a summary about all of the current ways to store and consume magic mushrooms. I was constantly thinking why hasn’t someone done this and adapted it through time with new found evidence?

Thinking about Gandhi’s words “be the change you wish to see in this world”, I thought I’d give it a go. I’d like to keep this post up to date also, so I will do my best keeping track of this post and adapting it through time. I am not by any means a chemist, but I have some basic knowledge that somewhat helps me understand the posts I’ve read so far.

EDIT: I did some research and this is what I could find in scientific articles : 

1. Oxygen Found HERE

Quote:

Psilocin is relatively unstable in solution due to its phenolic hydroxy (-OH) group. In the presence of oxygen it readily forms bluish and dark black degradation products.




This is why mushrooms that contain psilocin show a bluish color when bruised; the cell walls are damaged, psilocin is exposed to air, and the blue color forms. This could also explains why some magic mushrooms show more blue bruising than others, some have more psilocin compared to others. A table for that you will find HERE

With respects to oxygen in water, and the reason for boiling (found HERE ):

Quote:

...the change in temperature or pressure that affects the amount of gas that a liquid can hold (i.e., the solubility of a gas in a liquid). Solubility decreases as temperature increases. Assuming normal atmospheric pressure and composition, water at 0˚C can hold a maximum of ~15ppm DO, while water at 50˚C can only hold ~5ppm. Once the water reaches 100˚C, solubility is zero. Therefore, if you've brought water even close to a boil, you've removed virtually all the DO.




2. Temperature

The temperatures people seem to be worried about when drying or boiling don’t seem to be fact based. Found in this very informative article: Occurrence and use of hallucinogenic mushrooms containing psilocybin alkaloids .

Quote:

Boiling of psilocybin-containing mushrooms in water, results in a quantitative extraction of psilocybin into the water. But no psilocybin is degraded. A subsequent extraction of the boiled fruit bodies with methanol did not yield any psilocybin




However, the story is different for psilocin, at least when it comes to drying. This has to do with oxidation of the unstable psilocin, not with the temperature. I found this HERE.

Quote:

… drying at an elevated temperature (60°C) leads to decomposition of 90% of psilocin







3. Citric acid (also found in lemon juice) and ascorbic acid (Vitamin C)

1) "The acid’s causes dephosphorylation of psilocybin, effectively turning it into psilocin".  Found HERE . Also, "If one heats the extraction solution of dilute acetic acid to 70 degrees centigrade for ten minutes, then the psilocybin is completely converted by dephosphorylation to psilocin." Found HERE. And

2) Psilocin is relatively unstable in solution. Under alkaline conditions in the presence of oxygen it immediately forms bluish and black degradation products. Making the solution more acidic thus prevents degradation of the psilocin. Found HERE and it also improves extraction of the psilocin, found HERE

3) Supposedly, it improves bio-availability of the actives by adding citric acid to them.  About 50% of the actives are excreted unused otherwise.
(Could someone get me a reference for this? I haven't managed to find one :confused::confused::confused:?)
.


4. Light

The aqueous chemical standards of psilocybin and psilocin are prone to be degraded by light. However, taking care of protecting the standards from light, they are stable for at least one week.
Also found here Occurrence and use of hallucinogenic mushrooms containing psilocybin alkaloids

5. Conclusions

If you want to dry them, the faster the better. You will lose most of your psilocin, but keep most of your psilocybin. Unless you can freeze dry them, but those machines are expensive. Once dried, keep them in an air tight container or zip lock bag in the freezer.

For making tea: The higher the temperature of the water, the less oxygen, but the amount of oxygen in water seems to be negligible. This being said, boiling doesn't harm the actives. Add an acid to the water to improve psilocin solubility and protection, as well as to convert some of the psilocybin (the pro drug) to psilocin (the actual drug). For the most potent tea, use fresh mushrooms, chop them up (for dried ones: grind them up) and boil them 30-seconds to 1 minute. Then turn of the heat and let it steep for another 10-20minutes. Separate the solids from the liquid and discard them (as pointed out above, they should no longer contain any psilocybin). 
You may preserve the tea in a airtight container (with the least amount of air in it) for about a week before you lose the potency. If you want to preserve it longer than this, you should put the solution in the freezer.
Prolonged boiling doesn't extract actives any better but other stuff in the mushrooms starts breaking down and it adds a bad/worse taste.



That’s what I could find from mostly scientific resources. Further down I decided to give an overview of the different ways to consume and how to preserve our beloved friends. Instead of describing all the different techniques that are discussed all over the web, I will write something small and/or add links that describe the methods (but not today because I'm tired now :tongue2:). Feel free to post recipes or links to be added !

Consuming:
1. Eating
1.1 Eat them fresh
1.2 Eat them dried
1.3 Blue honey, mushroom chocolates or whatever other cooking method. HERE's a fun link

2. Drinking:
2.1 Mushroom tea from fresh fruits, as described above or click  HERE
2.2 Mushroom tea from dried fruits, as described above or click HERE
2.3 Fresh mushrooms with some form of juice
2.4 Cold water extraction (CWE) from fresh mushrooms with lemon water.
2.5 Ice cube extraction : Paul Stamet’s Blue Juice

Preserving/extracting
1. Drying/dehydrating
2. Freezing your liquids
3. Freezing fresh fruits
4. Doing an alcohol extraction

EDIT (30/04/2021)
Found the extraction method below online in the this article

The extraction protocol used 2 to 10 grams of pulverized mushrooms, the powder mixed with 100 mL of dilute acetic acid in a beaker and titrated to pH 4 with concentrated (glacial) acetic acid. After this mixture incubated for 1 hour, it was put in a boiling water bath for 8 to 10 minutes or until the solution tested at 70°C. This heating step dephosphorylated psilocybin to psilocin. The acid mixture was separated from the raffinate, brought to pH 8 with ammonium hydroxide, and extracted with two 50-mL aliquots of diethyl ether. The OChem foxtrot continued as the ether was dried over sodium sulfate, producing a greenish, psilocin precipitate that could be crystallized to a white powder using a 1:3 ratio of chloroform to heptane.



Have a great day.


Edited by Cokoritos (04/30/21 03:30 AM)


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: The definitive mushroom consuming and preserving summary [Re: Cokoritos] * 2
    #26645016 - 05/03/20 01:44 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Props, OP, a worthy idea. As you say you hunt around for teks though you’re never 100% it is still latest knowledge.

Have to make a correction to your thread: the citric acid doesn’t convert psilocybin to psilocin. It does something called dephosphorilisation (check my spelling!), which is usually done by the liver. What it does is make the psychoactives more bio available. If the citric acid ratio is correct, you can effectively double the potency of your particular dose.

There are many forms of storage, which mainly fall into the following: fresh or dried. And fresh will always provide a nicer experience, because you have lost less of the psilocin. So how do you store fresh for any length of time: you make tea from the fresh mushrooms and freeze the tea. Stores indefinitely, and if thawed and drunk correctly still provides that “fresh experience”.

I’m currently trying my first alcohol extraction, in order to save a batch of particularly weak mushrooms. Yes I agree it is a hassle, and it is slow, but it is easy: I’ve broken the cracker dry mushrooms into 40% vodka in a sealed kilner jar which I shake daily for six weeks. I will then strain into another jar; boil up the leftover mushroom in water then add that to the alcohol mixture. Store in dropper bottles (1ml drop will equal roughly 1g dried material). And apparently an alcohol extraction kicks in within ten minutes, and if the dose is too low, you can redoes in ten minutes and get an instant boost.

With my mushroom ice cubes, I like to make a pina colada smoothie:-

60ml white rum
60ml coconut cream
120ml pineapple juice
Blend with mushroom ice cubes :dancer:

Goes down a treat and tastes really nice....


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineCokoritos
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Re: The definitive mushroom consuming and preserving summary [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26645068 - 05/03/20 02:45 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Thank you ! Will edit this now :-)


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OfflineCokoritos
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Re: The definitive mushroom consuming and preserving summary [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26645120 - 05/03/20 03:17 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

:confused: If making tea from fresh mushrooms retains more actives than drying, is it then the best, easiest and low tech way to preserve your actives ?

To me it seems then to be the best solution of all :-)

Also another question with that: can you re-heat the tea without doing any damage to the actives?

Thank you !


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: The definitive mushroom consuming and preserving summary [Re: Cokoritos]
    #26645154 - 05/03/20 03:58 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

No mate, the best (easiest) way has to be using a food dehydrator (for me 4 hours at 70degC cracker dry, no cutting). Convenience and simplicity. Used air-drying for a week followed by desiccant chamber for a few days for years; never got them “cracker dry” this way, but I have stocks over 3 years old that are still potent. A food dehydrator is so much easier; as I said 4 hours tops will do an entire flush (I have a large dehydrator). However you lose some magic....

NOTE: I always dry at least some of each flush, so I can work out the water content, to then be able to work out the relative strength of the tea....

As you noted, you do lose both psilocin (approx 50%) and psilocybin (approx 20%), during the drying process.

BUT freezing fresh tea is the best way to preserve mushrooms for the “fresh experience”. You need to be aware that once the tea thaws out, you need to be drinking it straight away; hence why dry is more convenient - you can take dry into a festival, for example, or on a hike....

I personally freeze in ice cube trays, then I don’t need to thaw the whole batch to take a dose. PrimalSoup stores his in bottles, so has to thaw the bottle; he asserts this loses no additional potency, however it does negatively impact the taste.

Going back to alcohol extractions (I’m not using 200 proof, I’m using 80 proof vodka, hence 6 weeks), as long as the alcohol content of the liquid is above 12% by volume (though most people seem to aim for above 25%), the alcohol will preserve the psilocin, so a very good way of extracting fresh psychoactives and storing long term....

Hope this helps
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflineLSA Woodrose
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Re: The definitive mushroom consuming and preserving summary [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26645313 - 05/03/20 06:37 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Awesome, detailed post, Cokoritos! I am going to be taking about 2.5 to 3 grams in a little while, but when I am back from my excursion, I will definitely check out your first post in much more detail.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: The definitive mushroom consuming and preserving summary [Re: Cokoritos] * 1
    #26646292 - 05/03/20 03:30 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Cokoritos said:
the citric acid doesn’t convert psilocybin to psilocin. It does something called dephosphorylation, which is usually done by the liver. This makes the psycho-actives more bio available. If the citric acid ratio is correct, you can effectively double the potency of your particular dose. More on this here:





This is incorrect at base, or at least seriously confused. Dephosphoylation IS converting psilocybin to psilocin by removing the phosphorous molecule from the psilocybin.  Citric acid added to water both improves aqueous extraction of psilocin (which is only weakly soluble in pH neutral water) and apparently (according to studies of bloodstream levels of actives vs ingested quantity) improves bio-availability of the actives by adding citric acid to them.  About 50% of the actives are excreted unused otherwise.


Quote:

- Mushroom tea from fresh fruits WITH lemon juice, or whatever turns the water more acid.
Boil 1 cup of water (this is also to get more oxygen out of the water), then turn down the heat, add lemon juice for acidity (1:50 seems to be the right ratio, meaning for every 50 grams of fresh mushrooms, 1 gram of lemon juice), then chop your mushrooms in small pieces and quickly (again because of oxidation of the psilocin) add them to the hot water.
The function of the lemon juice seems to be twofold, firstly it helps the psilocin become dissolved in the water, secondly EDIT:




Restrictions on boiling time/temp are misguided.  You can't harm the actives by boiling.  IMHO this is a more workable tea method:  acidic tea tak.

Also the best ratio of DRY citric acid to WET mushroom weight is 1:50 (see above link) through experimentation.  Lemon juice is not 100% citric acid so using the weight of the lemon juice for a 2% ratio will provide too little citric acid.  A typical lemon is 5-6% citric acid (see internet) so you'd need 1/3 the weight of lemon juice to the weight of fresh shrooms to reach the ideal ratio.

Otherwise, carry on and welcome shroomery!  :goodday:


Edited by PrimalSoup (05/03/20 03:42 PM)


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OfflineIsalifrass
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Re: The definitive mushroom consuming and preserving summary [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26647334 - 05/04/20 01:30 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Most people agree that the alcohol doesn't work at this stage, and that lower alcohol content works better. From my own experience I haven't been able to get a mushroom extraction with ethanol to be anywhere close to a dried mushroom with lemon juice trip.


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OfflineCokoritos
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Re: The definitive mushroom consuming and preserving summary [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26648131 - 05/04/20 11:32 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

GREAT ! :mushroom2: I'll adjust the post soon. Thanks for the info. I read that post once, but lost track of it (too many tabs, too much continuing without saving :smile:


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Offlineking_garibay
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Re: The definitive mushroom consuming and preserving summary [Re: Cokoritos]
    #26648149 - 05/04/20 11:42 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

This is such a great post combining lots of information with link references! For someone new to the site like me, this post makes it A LOT easier to find relevant information. Thank you!


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OfflineCokoritos
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Re: The definitive mushroom consuming and preserving summary [Re: Cokoritos]
    #26654596 - 05/07/20 07:57 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I adapted it with the articles i could find.

Could someone reference the bioavailability, loss of actives during drying (percentages), and the proof for better solubility in an acid solution of psilocin (i only found that it doesn't deteriorate as easily as it does in a neutral or alkaline solution).

Also, why boil the mushrooms with less water, and start without the water being boiling? From what i've been reading, boiling water is best because there's no oxygen in it. I referenced everything in the original post.


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: The definitive mushroom consuming and preserving summary [Re: Cokoritos]
    #26654881 - 05/07/20 10:57 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

It depends how much tea you want to end up with. Boiling the mushrooms in their own water is perfectly viable.you would only add a minimal amount of extra water to stop the mushrooms initially burning, if you were not using lemon juice.

The loss of actives is referenced from the Shroomery’s very own Doseage calculator.

Oh and I think there’d only be no oxygen in boiling water if it had already been boiled for who knows how long?

Hope that helps
DJ Ed


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



Edited by DJ Ed (05/07/20 11:00 AM)


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: The definitive mushroom consuming and preserving summary [Re: DJ Ed]
    #26655455 - 05/07/20 04:02 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Cokoritos said:
proof for better solubility in an acid solution of psilocin (i only found that it doesn't deteriorate as easily as it does in a neutral or alkaline solution).




It's in the paper by Gold that I cite in the acidic tea tek (see my sig), supported by the measurements.  I don't know where exactly but if you want to be definitive you can find it I'm sure.  It's what got me interested in the acid tek in the first place.

Beyond that experience easily demonstrates this. :cookiemonster:

Quote:

boiling water is best because there's no oxygen in it




The amount of oxygen at room temp is negligible at 15ppm and only depends on temperature.  By the time you hit 50c it's down to 5ppm.  Boiling isn't what reduces it, temperature is.

The effect of acidifiying the water before adding the fresh shrooms is far greater than the oxygen at low temps.  Besides, extraction barely proceeds at room temp in water and there's much less oxygen in the water than in the air itself (200000 ppm :lol:).  So no IME it matters not at all, convenience is far greater just making the tea from the water in the shrooms (plus a bit of starter for the pan and the citric acid).

IOW it's the oxygen in the air that matters not in the tea water.  But if any of that isn't clear please ask.


--------------------

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OfflineCokoritos
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Re: The definitive mushroom consuming and preserving summary [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26657340 - 05/08/20 12:27 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I don't see a citation here: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/12494141#12494141 ... correct me if i'm wrong.

Adapted the "boiling" to "the higher the temperature, the less oxygen, but the amount of oxygen in water seems to be negligible ", which is the most correct i presume :smile:


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: The definitive mushroom consuming and preserving summary [Re: Cokoritos] * 1
    #26657642 - 05/08/20 02:47 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

It's in the article by Gold, like I said.  Which is cited in the acidic tea tek somewhere.  But that link to lycaeum.org expired. :rolleyes:

Find it here from erowid:  https://erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_article2.shtml

I've added that link to the first post in the tea tek... :bow:

Yes oxygen in the water doesn't matter, all you really need.


--------------------

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Re: The Definitive Mushroom Consuming and Preserving Synopsis [Re: Cokoritos]
    #26658027 - 05/08/20 06:00 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Very cool :thumbup:

Very well thought out. :mushroom2:


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OfflineDJ Ed
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Re: The definitive mushroom consuming and preserving summary [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26658963 - 05/09/20 01:28 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

That link must have only recently expired, PS, because I read it about a month or two ago! Seems easier to read on Erowid, somehow :cheers:


--------------------
“It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.”
Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind

“The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.”
Terence McKenna



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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: The definitive mushroom consuming and preserving summary [Re: DJ Ed] * 1
    #26660135 - 05/09/20 02:10 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Uhm, OT - I've posted a link of the material on a black background since the first one died.  But the erowid one is indeed easier to read. :snoopyes:


--------------------

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Primal's simple tested teks and projects: :awesomenod: Wheat Prep 2.0  Acidic Tea Tek  Potency Project! 


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Re: The definitive mushroom consuming and preserving summary [Re: PrimalSoup]
    #26668872 - 05/13/20 04:21 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

good info, thank you


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Offlinealpha-omega
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Re: The definitive mushroom consuming and preserving summary [Re: Cokoritos] * 1
    #26998081 - 10/22/20 02:32 PM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Thx for the all the info :thumbup:.

Let me add this long term dried mushroom storage option I've put into use (after a lot of reading of old posts on the forum and internet). I went with this solution... mason jar (or jars), a desiccant (to remove moisture) and a hand warmer (iron oxide to be an oxygen scavenger). I then keep the jar(s) in a freezer and wrapped (or in a box) to avoid light exposure. So far so good, and not that difficult to set up. I've seen users report successful long term storage thus far with excellent potency (2-3 years).

For choosing a desiccant, there are a number of options including silica gel food packets, etc. I went with Damprid, dumping a tbsp or two into aluminum foil and turning it all into a loose ball to isolate and hold the contents. Damprid is reusable as well (Google for more info). 

:mushroom2::mushroom2:


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