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Yellow Pants



Registered: 05/14/17
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dizzy_simmons said:
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Yellow Pants said: in order to produce an ethnicity would presume that a category of people have come together which indicates genetic binding. You can’t really have one without the other.
Except that you CAN have one without the other. Adoption is one such example; if a white person adopts a brown Latin American baby, that baby does *not* grow up ethnically Hispanic. But if a Latino couple adopts a white baby, that child does grow up ethnically Hispanic. Ethnicity is tied to culture, not genetics.
True, I mean there is no doubt about what you are saying, it seems to be focusing in on the particular tho. Looking at history and the world now it’s hard to not see genetics tied to culture and ethnicity. Not caused but perhaps correlated might be accurate to say. Go to east Asia and you will find a specific genetic category, same with Europe/Africa etc.
An example of North America, two different genetic and ethnic cultures where it would be hard to separate genetics from that equation with the Europeans and the natives.
Here is a found article not overly long, quick read. Basically a smart high status guy making some comments about how culture can effect genetics.
https://www.edge.org/response-detail/10456
Edited by Yellow Pants (05/09/20 12:20 PM)
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laughingdog
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Re: race things/things on race etc [Re: Yellow Pants]
#26660247 - 05/09/20 03:18 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Interesting article. Of course no eskimos or bushmen, etc., wear glasses, whereas all so called 'races' do now.
Of course there are some behavioral differences that correspond to some physical differences. It maybe easier for more orientals to sit cross legged than for most westerners, due either to differences in knee and hip joints, or to not using chairs as much.
In central America & Mexico the Ancient mayans had a culture full of warfare and torture, one of the most brutal ever. Today the Mayan indians of that area are a peaceful people.
the same principle (that culture & social pressure dominate both individuals and nationality and other such categories) is shown by this:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=philip+zimbardo+prison+experiment&t=hd&ia=web
and this
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=stanley+milgram+experiment&t=hd&ia=web
So whenever there is an attempt to put a group of people down based on their appearance one may legitimately expect that an egotistical agenda is at work. This seems to be the true nature of the idea of race.
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dizzy_simmons
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Re: race things/things on race etc [Re: laughingdog]
#26660601 - 05/09/20 06:29 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Reading that article just makes me think the author’s been falling behind on keeping up with science for a while. We’ve known for quite some time that epigenetics affects what genes a person passes on throughout their own single lifetime - for example, children born during times of famine are much better adapted to surviving future famines (whereas children born during bumper crop years are much more likely to die during famines).
We’ve also tracked some very profound ways that “modernity” (another misnomer the author uses) affects us as a species - such as how birth control and deodorant completely change who people choose to pair bond with (often making less fit children instead of the natural tendency to pair with partners with different alleles to produce more fit offspring).
It may be easy to use the conventional notion of dividing people into “white, Asian, Native American , etc”, but that’s just not all that meaningful or useful beyond discriminatory purposes. And it fails to acknowledge the multitude of peoples who exist within a single one of those categories. “Asians”, “African”, and “Native Americans” are composed of hundreds, if not thousands of distinct peoples with their own culture, language, and/or prevalent phenotypes.
-------------------- UNDO YOUR DOMESTICATION Looking for: ***The Land of the Free*** Ps. caerulipes Ps. cubensis Ps. cyanescens Ps. ovoideocystidiata Pan. cinctulus Pan. cyanescens
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Yellow Pants



Registered: 05/14/17
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Idk I feel there are some uses in seeing genetic differences in people beyond that of discrimination. A genetically native person has a different perspective and manner of expression if you are white. I use this example because I myself am of European descent I must confess.
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Freedom
Pigment of your imagination



Registered: 05/26/05
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dizzy_simmons said: We’ve known for quite some time that epigenetics affects what genes a person passes on throughout their own single lifetime
Epigenetics doesn't change what genes a person passes on, it changes how those genes are expressed.
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redgreenvines
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Re: race things/things on race etc [Re: Freedom]
#26662820 - 05/10/20 05:15 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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it's a foggy area, Nonchromosomal DNA - such as mitochondrial DNA are inherited without gene's involved, though it is very much inheritance (matrilinear among humans - for the most part - although apparently some is found in sperm) Other organelle or free DNA can be inherited as well (i.e. transferred from egg or sperm to the zygote)
Epigenetics has been extended to include non-chromosomal and non-DNA (environmental) conditioning that has a life long persisting effect, and that is where this line of investigation goes.
There are also people seriously ( it is lunacy) hunting for an epigenetic transfer of knowledge or memory using some strange inferences and logic that includes the following: DNA is a code, computers run code, DNA is DATA, computers process data, the mind has DNA, the mind is a computer using knowledge and code so memory is preserved in DNA and can be inherited.[FALSE}
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dizzy_simmons
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Re: race things/things on race etc [Re: Freedom]
#26662841 - 05/10/20 05:31 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yellow Pants said: Idk I feel there are some uses in seeing genetic differences in people beyond that of discrimination.
Such as?
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Yellow Pants said: A genetically native person raised in a different culture has a different perspective and manner of expression if you are white regardless of their skin colour or genes.
Fixed.
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Freedom said:
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dizzy_simmons said: We’ve known for quite some time that epigenetics affects what genes a person passes on throughout their own single lifetime
Epigenetics doesn't change what genes a person passes on, it changes how those genes are expressed.
Touché, although that clarification doesn’t really change the point of how we know our environment shapes our offspring (i.e., humans are far from removed from the process of evolution aka survival of the fittest).
-------------------- UNDO YOUR DOMESTICATION Looking for: ***The Land of the Free*** Ps. caerulipes Ps. cubensis Ps. cyanescens Ps. ovoideocystidiata Pan. cinctulus Pan. cyanescens
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Yellow Pants



Registered: 05/14/17
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Quote:
dizzy_simmons said:
Quote:
Yellow Pants said: Idk I feel there are some uses in seeing genetic differences in people beyond that of discrimination.
Such as?
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Yellow Pants said: A genetically native person raised in a different culture has a different perspective and manner of expression if you are white regardless of their skin colour or genes.
Fixed.
A simple basic good willed desire to see the genetic differences in people and to think about the time and variables that worked into the different ways humanity expresses itself. A kind of esthetic if you will. Not unlike culture but from a genetic and physical characteristic standpoint.
And I have to believe that a persons genetic history regardless of cultural conditioning plays a role in how that person manifests. Not only from social perception but from elemental parts of their being that influence tendencies and processes. I imagine the genes reflect the exterior and vice versa. So if you have a pre existing set of genes before entering into a given culture that deviates from the common genetic sets in that culture then that must affect things in way that it otherwise wouldn’t.
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dizzy_simmons
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Re: race things/things on race etc [Re: Yellow Pants]
#26663089 - 05/10/20 07:37 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I guess I can get behind the "aesthetic" thing (them brown girls, yo ), but appearances often have very little correlation with the rest of someone's genes. You can respect diversity without sweeping people into cliché categories, especially ones that presume to define their character traits.
Speaking of which, the second half of your post just reeks of eugenics, pseudoscience BS. So I'mma have to assume you're some kind of closet-Nazi until you can elaborate and prove otherwise.
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Yellow Pants



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Hm I see. Well, if pressed “dem black bitches” would take the cake but of course to each his own. And I do see the cliche point and will be aware but it is convenient.
However I do not understand your insecurity with the idea that genes as in ones genetic history may inevitably affect things in a person. Personally I am of German descent so that might be what your detecting which I guess is somewhat the point. Genes cover time and influence on the individual level. I’m not saying there’s a master race or to kill all those who oppose or anything like that. Nazism is certainly crossing a line.
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laughingdog
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Re: race things/things on race etc [Re: dizzy_simmons] 1
#26663332 - 05/10/20 09:11 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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dizzy_simmons said: I guess I can get behind the "aesthetic" thing (them brown girls, yo ), but appearances often have very little correlation with the rest of someone's genes. You can respect diversity without sweeping people into cliché categories, especially ones that presume to define their character traits.
Speaking of which, the second half of your post just reeks of eugenics, pseudoscience BS. So I'mma have to assume you're some kind of closet-Nazi until you can elaborate and prove otherwise. 
. People are products of their environment & culture. No eskimos living in the arctic will become either mathematicians or mafia members. People who become cops or soldiers are under intense pressure, to undergo extreme male bonding, and end up covering each others asses, no matter what, as their ideals erode over time. . Of course those who are well off, in modern urban settings, with some education appear to have more choices. But if we consider psychology and the prevalence and persistence of mental problems, in modern society, this also seems on closer inspection, to show the effects of the stress in its many forms that is part of busy urban settings. . Freewill or choice seems largely illusion. As perhaps the largest factor in determining much of many folks lives, is economics and/or government--the more totalitarian the country, the more this is true. . Seems to me generally genetics takes a back seat, to the these huge background forces that determine, the stage on which individual dramas take place.
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Shenmue
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Re: race things/things on race etc [Re: Yellow Pants]
#26663349 - 05/10/20 09:15 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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dizzy_simmons
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Re: race things/things on race etc [Re: laughingdog]
#26666540 - 05/12/20 01:13 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yellow Pants said: However I do not understand your insecurity with the idea that genes as in ones genetic history may inevitably affect things in a person. Personally I am of German descent so that might be what your detecting which I guess is somewhat the point. Genes cover time and influence on the individual level. I’m not saying there’s a master race or to kill all those who oppose or anything like that. Nazism is certainly crossing a line.
That our genes affect who we are beyond what we look like is most certainly true. Beyond doubt, some people are predisposed to be more intelligent, get an addiction, or die from cancer. But skin colour just isn’t a reliable predictor for 99.99% of what makes us who we are.
I’m also of German descent, my mother’s straight from the Rheinland. But I’m darker than everyone else in my family. I’ve even had people (“people of colour” mind you) ask what “race” I am or if I’m “mixed”
-------------------- UNDO YOUR DOMESTICATION Looking for: ***The Land of the Free*** Ps. caerulipes Ps. cubensis Ps. cyanescens Ps. ovoideocystidiata Pan. cinctulus Pan. cyanescens
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Yellow Pants



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Maybe you were African or Indian in a previous life.
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dizzy_simmons
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Re: race things/things on race etc [Re: Yellow Pants]
#26671043 - 05/14/20 04:50 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yellow Pants said: Maybe you were African or Indian in a previous life.
Maybe, but that explanation throws a pretty big wrench in the whole hypothesis of skin colour/race/character traits linkage, no? 
There’s definitely something to say about genes & character traits tho. What are the odds we’d end up being two krauts with a healthy obsession with dark skinned women. That’s bonkers! Or totally normal. Who knows?
-------------------- UNDO YOUR DOMESTICATION Looking for: ***The Land of the Free*** Ps. caerulipes Ps. cubensis Ps. cyanescens Ps. ovoideocystidiata Pan. cinctulus Pan. cyanescens
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Yellow Pants



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Yeah I was just spewin nonsense. No, I think our obsession with darker women is testament to the esthetic factor at play in genetics. It must go deeper than skin color. Although skin color is obvious.
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