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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
#26648329 - 05/04/20 01:00 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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On it's own, I agree. As part of a cocktail, that's being researched. I'm not even saying it will work - I'm saying let's not be frightened to research it just because Trump mentioned it.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
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Hydroxychloroquine had been part of the standard drug regimine for covid since the beginning days in China, because there was some questionable evidence that it helped with SARS. There have been many trials. It doesn’t work. It’s just so bizarre that people are still pushing it. One of the larger studies found that hydroxychloroquine patients fared significantly worse than people who got a placebo, which is why the FDA has now warned against using it.
Edited by koods (05/04/20 01:48 PM)
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koods
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
#26648433 - 05/04/20 01:59 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Actually the reason why these hydroxychloroquine cocktails are being pushed by researchers is because all of the drugs they are using are off patent. They’re public domain compounds. But in the US you can also get a patent for novel treatments, so someone who could get a hydroxychloroquine cocktail approved by the FDA to treat covid, they would gain the exclusive right to market that cocktail.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
#26648802 - 05/04/20 06:01 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Hydroxychloroquine had been part of the standard drug regimine for covid since the beginning days in China, because there was some questionable evidence that it helped with SARS. There have been many trials. It doesn’t work. It’s just so bizarre that people are still pushing it. One of the larger studies found that hydroxychloroquine patients fared significantly worse than people who got a placebo, which is why the FDA has now warned against using it.
Hydroxychloroquine doesn't work for COVID-19 prevention, and the FDA has issued a warning against using it outside of a hospital setting. But I haven't been able to find a study proving it definitively doesn't work, especially if used as part of a cocktail.
Quote:
koods said: Actually the reason why these hydroxychloroquine cocktails are being pushed by researchers is because all of the drugs they are using are off patent. They’re public domain compounds. But in the US you can also get a patent for novel treatments, so someone who could get a hydroxychloroquine cocktail approved by the FDA to treat covid, they would gain the exclusive right to market that cocktail.
That makes sense. Is there any reason you're so determined to prevent such research from proceeding?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
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It doesn’t work
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
#26648933 - 05/04/20 07:07 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Source? Or make believe?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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oculodextro

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Poor methods and reporting
Hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine inhibit SARS-CoV-2 in vitro, and a Chinese commentary, mentioning 15 trials, reported that, “Thus far, results from more than 100 patients have demonstrated that chloroquine phosphate is superior to the control treatment in inhibiting the exacerbation of pneumonia,”19 without giving any further details. A preliminary account of one of those trials, a placebo controlled randomised study of two different doses of hydroxychloroquine in 62 patients with radiological findings of pneumonia but without severe hypoxia, reported small improvements in body temperature and cough in the higher dose treatment group.20 However, the endpoints specified in the published protocol differed from those reported, the results in the low dose group were not described, and the trial seems to have been stopped prematurely.21
An open, non-randomised study of hydroxychloroquine, published in preprint, reportedly supported efficacy in 20 patients, but the trial design was poor and the results unreliable: six patients dropped out of the treatment arm (two because of admission to an intensive care unit and one because he died); the measure of efficacy was viral load, not a clinical endpoint; and assessments were made on day 6 after starting treatment.22
Advocates, including Donald Trump, have argued that hydroxychloroquine is widely used and safe. Its use is now permitted by the US Food and Drug Administration23 and advocated by the Indian Council for Medical Research.24 But no drug is guaranteed to be safe, and wide use of hydroxychloroquine will expose some patients to rare but potentially fatal harms, including serious cutaneous adverse reactions,25 fulminant hepatic failure,26 and ventricular arrhythmias (especially when prescribed with azithromycin)27; overdose is hazardous and difficult to treat.28
We sorely need an effective treatment for covid-19, but prevention by a vaccine or treatment with drugs that target specific structures in the virus are more likely to succeed than old drugs that may work in the laboratory but lack data supporting clinical use. No intervention should be assumed to be efficacious. Even drugs initially supported by evidence of effectiveness may later prove to be more harmful than beneficial. Too many medicines have been withdrawn because of adverse reactions after showing clinical promise.29 We need better, properly powered, randomised controlled trials of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine. For now, except for supportive measures, infection with SARS-CoV-2 is “essentially untreatable.”
https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1432
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Stable Genius
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starfire_xes
I Am 'They'



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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
#26649898 - 05/05/20 06:46 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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it works.
Or esle, go ventilate yourself.
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oculodextro

Registered: 04/10/13
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Any proof that it works?
All medical journals say it doesn't and in concert with macrolide antibiotics can prolong the QT interval.
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koods
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An immunosuppressant that causes heart arrhythmias to treat a disease that infects the heart. What could go wrong?
Quote:
starfire_xes said: it works..
This is essentially a religious belief.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
starfire_xes said:
Quote:
koods said: It doesn’t work
it works.
This is essentially a religious belief.
Both of your statements are religious beliefs. 
As I've been already said, "a doctor said he's had very good success with this cocktail (which obviously needs to verified), and so now it's being tested in clinical trials to find out if it works as well as claimed... no one said this study would definitively work - it's a study... I'm saying let's not be frightened to research it just because Trump mentioned it."
Quote:
oculodextro said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Hydroxychloroquine doesn't work for COVID-19 prevention, and the FDA has issued a warning against using it outside of a hospital setting. But I haven't been able to find a study proving it definitively doesn't work, especially if used as part of a cocktail.
https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1432
From your article:
Quote:
Use of these drugs is premature
Currently, at least 80 trials of chloroquine, hydroxychloroquine, or both, sometimes in combination with other drugs, are registered worldwide.
We need better, properly powered, randomised controlled trials of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine.
This is exactly what I've been saying this whole time, so I still haven't figured out what your argument is.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
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The clinical trials have failed. Over and over again. What are you not understanding?
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods]
#26650892 - 05/05/20 02:06 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Source, or make believe? (second time I'm asking)
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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oculodextro

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All you have ever seen are studies in-vitro. Nothing is conclusive in human studies.
These drugs are fucking terrible, I deal with patients going blind from them on the regular. If they work they work, but I'm assuming they won't based on their long standing history.
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koods
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Source, or make believe? (second time I'm asking)
What’s the point? You are stuck with your opinion as usual and nothing will change your mind. It’s not like these results haven’t been well publicized. Aside from the scammers, nobody believes HCQ is a legitimate treatment option for covid anymore
Edited by koods (05/05/20 03:16 PM)
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koods
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods] 1
#26651050 - 05/05/20 03:23 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20065920v2
This study should have put this whole issue to bed.
Quote:
CONCLUSIONS: In this study, we found no evidence that use of hydroxychloroquine, either with or without azithromycin, reduced the risk of mechanical ventilation in patients hospitalized with Covid-19. An association of increased overall mortality was identified in patients treated with hydroxychloroquine
27% of the HC treated patients died while only 11% of the no HC patients died.
This was a fairly large study done run by a US government agency
Edited by koods (05/05/20 03:25 PM)
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Enlil
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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: koods] 1
#26651057 - 05/05/20 03:25 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yeah, but can you cite a study that says that drinking gasoline and lighting your colon on fire doesn't cure covid?
Yeah...I didn't think so.
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oculodextro

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Re: Coronavirus Chat [Re: Enlil]
#26651122 - 05/05/20 04:02 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Do you need to wait for the gasoline to pour out the colon, or can I light it as soon as I drink?
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Enlil
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This is why we need a study.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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