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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Re: CNN vs The Trump Campain [Re: koods]
    #26696164 - 05/26/20 05:17 AM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

koods said:
You’re right it is about self defense. You don’t think you have a right to defend yourself when you’re being chased down and assaulted by a guy with a gun? Some reason you think the white guy is defending himself against the black guy even tho the white guy is the aggressor. If not racism, how could you come to the conclusion the black guy didn’t have a right to defend himself.




If someone confronted me holding a gun, i would probably show my hands and not attack any of them :shrug: you're the one making this about race. The attacker and victims race have nothing to do with anything. Frankly, if the victim wasn't black you probably wouldn't even care :lol: or the media for that matter


--------------------
Obviously you don't know who the fuck I am. The names Cyrus, CYRUS. And I don't give a fuck who you are

Iam delusional and like to post fictional statements and nothing I say should be taken seriously


Edited by MagicMush123 (05/26/20 05:58 AM)


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: CNN vs The Trump Campain [Re: MagicMush123] * 2
    #26696462 - 05/26/20 09:45 AM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Federal law is meaningless in this situation.  This is 100% state-specific.  Also, it doesn't matter if their conduct constituted an assault prior to the scuffle.  All that matters is whether their conduct created a reasonable apprehension of imminent harm.

That's the test...who created the reasonable apprehension of imminent harm?

Using that test, did Arbery create an apprehension of imminent harm by running down the street?  Clearly no.

Did driving a truck down that street create one?  No.

Did stopping the truck create one?  No.

Did getting out of that truck with a shotgun and approaching Arbery create an apprehension of imminent harm?  Think about this.  Put yourself in Arbery's shoes.  You're running.  A truck stops in the middle of the road and someone exits the vehicle with a shotgun and approaches you.  He's not in uniform.  The truck has no official markings.  Would you be reasonable in apprehending imminent harm?

Now, all of that is assuming NOTHING was said.  We don't know what was said, if anything, but if there was yelling going back and forth during this encounter, that only makes the apprehension more reasonable.

Of course, self-defense is far more nuanced and complicated than that, because there's also the notion of reasonable force in response to the threat and the notion of sudden escalation of force.  Here, all of those go against the rednecks and in Arbery's favor. 

Years ago, during the Trayvon Martin shooting, there were several mammoth threads about it here, and I came down in favor of Zimmerman based on self-defense.  The lefties were all about convicting him and the righties were all about blaming Martin.  Now, here we sit with another white on black shooting.  The lefties are still all about convicting the white dudes and the righties are all about blaming the black dude.  My position is different here because the facts are different here.  Both cases involved a black person minding his own business and a white dude taking it upon himself to confront him.  Both cases ended with the black dude dead.  The details that changed the Martin shooting from a run-of-the-mill hate crime to self-defense aren't present here.


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: CNN vs The Trump Campain [Re: Enlil]
    #26696468 - 05/26/20 09:48 AM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Now they arrested the guy who shot the video; something along the lines of, that made him a participant.


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: CNN vs The Trump Campain [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26696471 - 05/26/20 09:51 AM (1 month, 8 days ago)

I watched that guy and his lawyer give an interview about 3 weeks ago and they wouldnt answer the question of how he just happened to be there making a video . Or any questions really .
  There aren’t very many answers in my opinion .


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Re: CNN vs The Trump Campain [Re: Brian Jones] * 2
    #26696478 - 05/26/20 09:58 AM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Important point:  He wasn't arrested for shooting the video or for failing to intervene during the encounter.  He was arrested under a theory that he was a part of the group of people who planned this from the beginning. 

Second important point: He is not charged with "murder" as we normally think about it.  He is charged with "felony murder."  Felony murder, unlike murder, doesn't require an intent to kill or even harm Arbery.  Felony murder is when someone is killed during the commission of another felony, usually one of several specified felonies. 

Example:  You went out to rob a liquor store without any intention of killing anyone.  You brought a toy gun instead of a real one.  The guy behind the counter, however, pulls out a very real Desert Eagle .50AE and shoots at you, hitting the Asian lady behind you, killing her.  YOU are now guilty of felony murder.

The theory as to the videographer, as I understand it, is that he and the other two rednecks made a plan (conspiracy) to apprehend Arbery (kidnapping), and in the commission of that kidnapping, Arbery was killed.  Hence felony murder.


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: CNN vs The Trump Campain [Re: MagicMush123] * 1
    #26696484 - 05/26/20 10:02 AM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
If someone confronted me holding a gun, i would probably show my hands



This indicates that you would have a reasonable apprehension of imminent harm.  If you had said, "If someone confronted me holding a gun, I'd go about my business," that would indicate no apprehension of imminent harm.  The fact that you'd react in a manner specifically intended to avoid that harm tells us that you had a reasonable apprehension of being harmed by that gun.


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Offlineqman
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Re: CNN vs The Trump Campain [Re: Enlil]
    #26696551 - 05/26/20 11:06 AM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Federal law is meaningless in this situation.  This is 100% state-specific.  Also, it doesn't matter if their conduct constituted an assault prior to the scuffle.  All that matters is whether their conduct created a reasonable apprehension of imminent harm.

That's the test...who created the reasonable apprehension of imminent harm?

Using that test, did Arbery create an apprehension of imminent harm by running down the street?  Clearly no.

Did driving a truck down that street create one?  No.

Did stopping the truck create one?  No.

Did getting out of that truck with a shotgun and approaching Arbery create an apprehension of imminent harm?  Think about this.  Put yourself in Arbery's shoes.  You're running.  A truck stops in the middle of the road and someone exits the vehicle with a shotgun and approaches you.  He's not in uniform.  The truck has no official markings.  Would you be reasonable in apprehending imminent harm?

Now, all of that is assuming NOTHING was said.  We don't know what was said, if anything, but if there was yelling going back and forth during this encounter, that only makes the apprehension more reasonable.

Of course, self-defense is far more nuanced and complicated than that, because there's also the notion of reasonable force in response to the threat and the notion of sudden escalation of force.  Here, all of those go against the rednecks and in Arbery's favor. 

Years ago, during the Trayvon Martin shooting, there were several mammoth threads about it here, and I came down in favor of Zimmerman based on self-defense.  The lefties were all about convicting him and the righties were all about blaming Martin.  Now, here we sit with another white on black shooting.  The lefties are still all about convicting the white dudes and the righties are all about blaming the black dude.  My position is different here because the facts are different here.  Both cases involved a black person minding his own business and a white dude taking it upon himself to confront him.  Both cases ended with the black dude dead.  The details that changed the Martin shooting from a run-of-the-mill hate crime to self-defense aren't present here.




:whathesaid:


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Invisiblerelic
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Re: CNN vs The Trump Campain [Re: Enlil]
    #26696617 - 05/26/20 11:47 AM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:

Years ago, during the Trayvon Martin shooting, there were several mammoth threads about it here, and I came down in favor of Zimmerman based on self-defense.  The lefties were all about convicting him and the righties were all about blaming Martin.  Now, here we sit with another white on black shooting.  The lefties are still all about convicting the white dudes and the righties are all about blaming the black dude.  My position is different here because the facts are different here.  Both cases involved a black person minding his own business and a white dude taking it upon himself to confront him.  Both cases ended with the black dude dead.  The details that changed the Martin shooting from a run-of-the-mill hate crime to self-defense aren't present here.




I remember that, and more specifically remember relenting and eventually changing my opinion in the face of your better and more informed argument.

Thx for weighing in on this case, too, man.


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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Re: CNN vs The Trump Campain [Re: Enlil]
    #26696655 - 05/26/20 12:08 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Federal law is meaningless in this situation.  This is 100% state-specific.  Also, it doesn't matter if their conduct constituted an assault prior to the scuffle.  All that matters is whether their conduct created a reasonable apprehension of imminent harm.

That's the test...who created the reasonable apprehension of imminent harm?

Using that test, did Arbery create an apprehension of imminent harm by running down the street?  Clearly no.

Did driving a truck down that street create one?  No.

Did stopping the truck create one?  No.

Did getting out of that truck with a shotgun and approaching Arbery create an apprehension of imminent harm?  Think about this.  Put yourself in Arbery's shoes.  You're running.  A truck stops in the middle of the road and someone exits the vehicle with a shotgun and approaches you.  He's not in uniform.  The truck has no official markings.  Would you be reasonable in apprehending imminent harm?

Now, all of that is assuming NOTHING was said.  We don't know what was said, if anything, but if there was yelling going back and forth during this encounter, that only makes the apprehension more reasonable.

Of course, self-defense is far more nuanced and complicated than that, because there's also the notion of reasonable force in response to the threat and the notion of sudden escalation of force.  Here, all of those go against the rednecks and in Arbery's favor. 

Years ago, during the Trayvon Martin shooting, there were several mammoth threads about it here, and I came down in favor of Zimmerman based on self-defense.  The lefties were all about convicting him and the righties were all about blaming Martin.  Now, here we sit with another white on black shooting.  The lefties are still all about convicting the white dudes and the righties are all about blaming the black dude.  My position is different here because the facts are different here.  Both cases involved a black person minding his own business and a white dude taking it upon himself to confront him.  Both cases ended with the black dude dead.  The details that changed the Martin shooting from a run-of-the-mill hate crime to self-defense aren't present here.



Thanks for the info. Now that we've established the rednecks were 100% in the wrong, do you think they'll do time, and if so, what would the charge be? And will the son and whoever else was with them be charged as well or just the father?


--------------------
Obviously you don't know who the fuck I am. The names Cyrus, CYRUS. And I don't give a fuck who you are

Iam delusional and like to post fictional statements and nothing I say should be taken seriously


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InvisibleEnlilM
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Re: CNN vs The Trump Campain [Re: MagicMush123]
    #26696713 - 05/26/20 12:35 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

I'm not saying they were 100% in the wrong.  I'm saying that based on the facts we have now, that's my opinion.  Other information may come to light.  Innocent until proven guilty.

Most likely, it'll end in a plea deal, and the shooter will probably do some time.  The other two may do a little.  Killing a black man in Georgia isn't punished as harshly as killing a white man, so it won't be much time.

My guess is that it'll come down to felony murder.


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: CNN vs The Trump Campain [Re: MagicMush123] * 1
    #26696963 - 05/26/20 02:28 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:



Thanks for the info. Now that we've established the rednecks were 100% in the wrong, d




  I brought up Arbery on page 3 and it took a person smarter than me 5 pages to convince people it was wrong . I thought I should point that out because it’s a little disturbing .


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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Re: CNN vs The Trump Campain [Re: Psilynut2]
    #26696983 - 05/26/20 02:41 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:



Thanks for the info. Now that we've established the rednecks were 100% in the wrong, d




  I brought up Arbery on page 3 and it took a person smarter than me 5 pages to convince people it was wrong . I thought I should point that out because it’s a little disturbing .



What i find disturbing is how triggered you get over trump :lol:


--------------------
Obviously you don't know who the fuck I am. The names Cyrus, CYRUS. And I don't give a fuck who you are

Iam delusional and like to post fictional statements and nothing I say should be taken seriously


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Re: CNN vs The Trump Campain [Re: MagicMush123] * 5
    #26697030 - 05/26/20 02:58 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

What many people find disturbing is how anyone in America isn't seriously disturbed over Trump.  Right, left, conservative, liberal...if you think America's reputation and standing in the international community is important at all, you should be seriously disturbed by Trump.  If you don't think our reputation and standing in the international community is important, you have absolutely no appreciation for history or you are simply looking forward to the end of America as we know it.

This is how most of us see our current President:



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OfflineGruffaloCrumble
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Re: CNN vs The Trump Campain [Re: Enlil]
    #26697056 - 05/26/20 03:13 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Well, he is boasting about his ratings.  lol


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Offlineqman
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Re: CNN vs The Trump Campain [Re: Enlil]
    #26697197 - 05/26/20 04:30 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
What many people find disturbing is how anyone in America isn't seriously disturbed over Trump.  Right, left, conservative, liberal...if you think America's reputation and standing in the international community is important at all, you should be seriously disturbed by Trump.  If you don't think our reputation and standing in the international community is important, you have absolutely no appreciation for history or you are simply looking forward to the end of America as we know it.

This is how most of us see our current President:






Many people want the system to end in the US as we know it, that's why they enjoy Trump making a mockery of the entire thing and don't take issue with it.

I'm voting for Biden because he makes an even bigger mockery of the political system, what is the international community going to think when Biden shits his own pants in public?


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Re: CNN vs The Trump Campain [Re: qman]
    #26697245 - 05/26/20 04:55 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Biden isn't much better, but at least he tries to act professionally 70% of the time.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: CNN vs The Trump Campain [Re: Enlil]
    #26697275 - 05/26/20 05:15 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Trump just berated a reporter for not taking off his mask saying “you just want to be polically correct.”

It’s almost like he wants to fuck the economy over


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Re: CNN vs The Trump Campain [Re: koods]
    #26697367 - 05/26/20 05:58 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

He doesn't know shit about the economy.  He's just a grumpy old man who thinks kids these days blow shit out of proportion.  He doesn't understand or care to understand the science behind any of it.


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: CNN vs The Trump Campain [Re: qman] * 1
    #26697546 - 05/26/20 07:22 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

Quote:

I'm voting for Biden because he makes an even bigger mockery of the political system, what is the international community going to think when Biden shits his own pants in public?



 
  Is that worse than playing golf all weekend while the death toll approaches 100k from a pandemic ?
That pretty much sums up his presidency if you ask me.
  I don’t care if Biden is incontinent , I just want him to hire competent professionals to give him advice and not expect them to deny reality , he can wear diapers I don’t give a fuck .


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Re: CNN vs The Trump Campain [Re: Psilynut2]
    #26697932 - 05/26/20 10:18 PM (1 month, 8 days ago)

That’s honestly the worst part about trump. It’s one thing to be incompetent, but his ego demands everyone else around him to be equally incompetent. Nothing threatens him more than someone who knows more than him - which is pretty much anyone over the age of 10.


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