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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
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Re: Better to never have been [Re: Thanatos10]
#26649327 - 05/04/20 10:23 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Still doesn’t change that such a view is cold. Because that would mean that my love for others isn’t real, or sadness, or joy. I can’t see how someone could live such an existence, it seems pretty sad.
that is because you limit yourself to an all-or-nothing view of reality
as soon as one is able to realize that the conventional world can be deeply meaningful to the lived existence while ultimately being empty of any intrinsic existence or permanence the capacity for a meaningful life with less hang-ups becomes available
that beautiful psychedelic acceptance of uncertainty
ultimately, shit just chaotically happens without meaning or structure; to seek a meaning for existence is to approach the Void and be turned back into the world of naming conventionally, we ascribe meaning and structure to our lives to experience them in a cohesive way
My love for others is real, but it is only available to share while I am here with them -- and therefore should be maximized while available My sadness is real, but it is only present relative to the experiences that cause sadness, and recognizable by the presence of joy My joy is real, but it is only available to me while having experiences that bring me joy, and it must be balanced through experiences of sadness or it just becomes a different degree of flatness
I am real while I am here but one day that reality will be changed into reality as a memory and then, on a long enough time line, not even that will remain I will no longer be real, no longer be capable of love, sadness, or joy
so it comes to whether my approach is to make the most of its reality while it around or mourn for it fading away before it does, and to go into the darkness with only that behind me
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watermelon mon
Willow Trees


Registered: 04/05/13
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It really sucks. I think that I've spent a good amount of my life fairly or severely depressed, it has gotten really bad.
Back in 2011 i was working on the positivity. Not until recently it seems to have stook. Even though it's always been there.
Edited by watermelon mon (05/04/20 10:39 PM)
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
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Quote:
Seriously_trippin said: ...Robin Williams is am good example of someone who tried his damndest to get out of it but it was in the end a disease.
Robin Williams was depressed for much of his life, and utilized that as motivation to try and help others away from sadness
but think that the dementia at the end of his life is what made him decide to end it my imagining is that he started to feel like the memory loss and loss of other capabilities lead to him taking his own life before he felt like he had lost the ability to help others, and instead would be relying on help from them
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Thanatos10
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Re: Better to never have been [Re: Tantrika]
#26649351 - 05/04/20 10:41 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tantrika said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Still doesn’t change that such a view is cold. Because that would mean that my love for others isn’t real, or sadness, or joy. I can’t see how someone could live such an existence, it seems pretty sad.
that is because you limit yourself to an all-or-nothing view of reality
as soon as one is able to realize that the conventional world can be deeply meaningful to the lived existence while ultimately being empty of any intrinsic existence or permanence the capacity for a meaningful life with less hang-ups becomes available
that beautiful psychedelic acceptance of uncertainty
ultimately, shit just chaotically happens without meaning or structure; to seek a meaning for existence is to approach the Void and be turned back into the world of naming conventionally, we ascribe meaning and structure to our lives to experience them in a cohesive way
My love for others is real, but it is only available to share while I am here with them -- and therefore should be maximized while available My sadness is real, but it is only present relative to the experiences that cause sadness, and recognizable by the presence of joy My joy is real, but it is only available to me while having experiences that bring me joy, and it must be balanced through experiences of sadness or it just becomes a different degree of flatness
I am real while I am here but one day that reality will be changed into reality as a memory and then, on a long enough time line, not even that will remain I will no longer be real, no longer be capable of love, sadness, or joy
so it comes to whether my approach is to make the most of its reality while it around or mourn for it fading away before it does, and to go into the darkness with only that behind me
I don’t think so. I tried the unattached lifestyle that Buddhism purports but I ended up not caring about anyone or anything. I didn’t bother with daily life, I ignored my dogs, didn’t care or comfort family, etc. It felt nice but my daily life suffered from it because without attachment there wasn’t a reason to do anything.
I think it’s a level of cognitive dissonance that Buddhist monks have, and it’s also why engaged Buddhism had to be founded.
Again either your feelings for/with others are real or not, we can’t have it both ways. It’s like saying suffering isn’t real, that’s not just cold but heartless too. Like telling someone the pain of their mother dying is just their imagination.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
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Re: Better to never have been [Re: Thanatos10]
#26649375 - 05/04/20 10:57 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thanatos10 said: ... I don’t think so. I tried the unattached lifestyle that Buddhism purports but I ended up not caring about anyone or anything. I didn’t bother with daily life, I ignored my dogs, didn’t care or comfort family, etc. It felt nice but my daily life suffered from it because without attachment there wasn’t a reason to do anything. ...
So you were attached to non-attachment you hit the first wall and decided that the system was flawed and that your inability to overcome was you being taught to become solipstic
without attachment, there is no reason not to do everything
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Thanatos10 said: ... I think it’s a level of cognitive dissonance that Buddhist monks have, and it’s also why engaged Buddhism had to be founded. ...
Could see how you would formulate such a position due to your misrepresentative experience
socially engaged Buddhism proliferated because once Buddhism hit East Asia it encountered societies with embedded Daoism (asocial) and Confucianism (social) and had to establish a middle way of partial withdraw and social engagement to continue through society
this is why Zen Buddhism actually has a "course" that is considered to last about 12 years and afterwards people return to an engaged and worldly life but still sit in Zazen each day
and why men in Thai society are considered not to be fully grown; or "unfinished men" until they have done time in monastic life
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Thai men can enter a monastery at any stage in their life. However, doing so before marriage is often seen as a sign that a man will be a devoted and thoughtful husband, able to guide his wife on the right path. Some women may even not consent to marry a man who has not ordained, with those who have spent time as a monk is considered ‘ripe’.
https://theculturetrip.com/asia/thailand/articles/why-men-in-thailand-ordain-as-monks-before-getting-married/
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Thanatos10 said: ... Again either your feelings for/with others are real or not, we can’t have it both ways. It’s like saying suffering isn’t real, that’s not just cold but heartless too. Like telling someone the pain of their mother dying is just their imagination.
Again, this is your view being limited by absolutism you are making a statement about the reality of my feelings my position is one of uncertainty
there is no way for me to know if this world will continue after my death but there is also no way for me to know it will be gone, either but what "can" be "known" is however historical my presence may become, despite my not wanting fame or popularity as personal pursuits eventually, even if it is not until the end of the human race, but eventually, any trace of my existence will eventually fade away into nothing
Suffering is change; change is chaos; at the ultimate level suffering is the only real thing, but it is only suffering through the lens of those who suffer the bunny cries, the bird cheers, nature goes on
so, again, all my experiences are real to me while they happen but a solipsist will look at my life and say none of it is real but, ultimately, real or not they are experientially important and also will fade away -- or, rather, change until they are unrecognizable as their current iteration
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Loaded Shaman
Psychophysiologist



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Re: Better to never have been [Re: Tantrika]
#26649489 - 05/05/20 01:06 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thanatos' entire solipsist philosophy is a rational contradiction that he's so embedded in he can't see the forest for the trees anymore.
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  "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one’s ignorance." — Confucius
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Tantrika
Miss Ann Thrope




Registered: 03/26/12
Posts: 17,138
Loc: Lashed to the pyre
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Quote:
Loaded Shaman said: Thanatos' entire solipsist philosophy is a rational contradiction that he's so embedded in he can't see the forest for the trees anymore.
duality is okay non-duality is getting somewhere but one must come to comprehend the non-duality of duality and non-duality
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Thanatos10
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Quote:
Loaded Shaman said: Thanatos' entire solipsist philosophy is a rational contradiction that he's so embedded in he can't see the forest for the trees anymore.
It’s not a contradiction though.
As I said without attachment I wouldn’t do anything since I wouldn’t be invested in anything. I said that it felt nice but I wasn’t doing anything or caring about anything. I can see why it’s not practical
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: Better to never have been [Re: Thanatos10]
#26650109 - 05/05/20 08:50 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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It's immanently practical if one wants to use it as an excuse to be lazy and basically do nothing with ones life other than lament about how awful it all is to strangers on the internet.
Kudos sir, it seems you've found a loophole to escape any responsibility whatsoever for yourself or your life.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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lowbrow
Paddy Time!!!!


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Quote:
Seriously_trippin said: Robin Williams is am good example of someone who tried his damndest to get out of it but it was in the end a disease.
Robin Williams had just been diagnosed with parkinson.
It wasn’t necessarily a good bye cruel world scenario.
https://www.statnews.com/2016/09/30/robin-williams-dementia/
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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Thanatos10
Stranger



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Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said: It's immanently practical if one wants to use it as an excuse to be lazy and basically do nothing with ones life other than lament about how awful it all is to strangers on the internet.
Kudos sir, it seems you've found a loophole to escape any responsibility whatsoever for yourself or your life.
It’s an observation not an excuse which is why I no longer do non attachment
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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RJ Tubs 202



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Re: Better to never have been [Re: Thanatos10] 1
#26650631 - 05/05/20 12:29 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
As I said without attachment I wouldn’t do anything since I wouldn’t be invested in anything.
We can experience desire, and care deeply, without being investing in a particular outcome. So much misery is born from being attached to expectations and outcomes.
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Thanatos10
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Re: Better to never have been [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
#26651014 - 05/05/20 03:04 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
As I said without attachment I wouldn’t do anything since I wouldn’t be invested in anything.
We can experience desire, and care deeply, without being investing in a particular outcome. So much misery is born from being attached to expectations and outcomes.
To me that seems impossible but that’s probably because I’m an idiot.
Anyway to get this back on topic:
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: Better to never have been [Re: Thanatos10]
#26651049 - 05/05/20 03:22 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thanatos10 said: It’s an observation not an excuse which is why I no longer do non attachment
We've been here before but let's go again (since you ignored me last time); what good has this 'observation' brought to your life?
What has it spurred you into doing other than complaining and arguing and contemplating suicide?
What have you actually done with your life in the five years you're been here?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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Thanatos10
Stranger



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Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said: It’s an observation not an excuse which is why I no longer do non attachment
We've been here before but let's go again (since you ignored me last time); what good has this 'observation' brought to your life?
What has it spurred you into doing other than complaining and arguing and contemplating suicide?
What have you actually done with your life in the five years you're been here?
Besides realizing that life is a cycle of suffering that should be ended? The video was meant to get this back on track.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: Better to never have been [Re: Thanatos10]
#26651152 - 05/05/20 04:19 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thanatos10 said: Besides realizing that life is a cycle of suffering that should be ended?
That's exactly what the Buddhists say, oddly enough.
Only difference is, they choose to end the suffering through discipline and practice and spreading goodness.
You basically seem to choose to do the exact opposite of that.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,958
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Re: Better to never have been [Re: Thanatos10]
#26651167 - 05/05/20 04:25 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
life is a cycle of suffering that should be ended?
I've suffered way more than you and I disagree. Life is precious, yes there is a lot of hardship but theres also good sides.
Anything I say is ridiculously stupid to you anyway, you made that clear in just about every response to just about everything I wrote, so maybe I should advocate you killing yourself so that you won't do it because I said it.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Thanatos10
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Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Besides realizing that life is a cycle of suffering that should be ended?
That's exactly what the Buddhists say, oddly enough.
Only difference is, they choose to end the suffering through discipline and practice and spreading goodness.
You basically seem to choose to do the exact opposite of that.
Well according to the video and anti natalism it would be easier to just kill everything and end the life cycle, thereby ending suffering.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Thanatos10
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Re: Better to never have been [Re: Asante]
#26651204 - 05/05/20 04:40 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said:
life is a cycle of suffering that should be ended?
I've suffered way more than you and I disagree. Life is precious, yes there is a lot of hardship but theres also good sides.
Anything I say is ridiculously stupid to you anyway, you made that clear in just about every response to just about everything I wrote, so maybe I should advocate you killing yourself so that you won't do it because I said it.
That shows an ignorance of what life is really like, which the video shows. You are essentially saying you don't care about other living creatures or living at their expense.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
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Re: Better to never have been [Re: Thanatos10]
#26651224 - 05/05/20 04:51 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Well according to the video and anti natalism it would be easier to just kill everything and end the life cycle, thereby ending suffering.
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Thanatos10 said: You are essentially saying you don't care about other living creatures or living at their expense.
No, that's what YOU are saying. How can you not see that?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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