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Thanatos10
Stranger



Registered: 01/19/15
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As I keep trying to say, I can't verify that other people exist. Therefor any action I take with or towards them would be wasteful, getting invested and bonding with them would be wasteful since I can't be sure if they exist or not.
If one TRULY is everything then nihilism is the only outcome and then suicide promptly after.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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oculodextro

Registered: 04/10/13
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Loc: Space is the Place
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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“Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.”
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Thanatos10
Stranger



Registered: 01/19/15
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Quote:
oculodextro said: “Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.”
Not really applicable here.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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oculodextro

Registered: 04/10/13
Posts: 1,205
Loc: Space is the Place
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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If someone punches you in the face for your actions, is it you?
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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I tell you, getting a good beating a few times in my life did me the world of good.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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oculodextro

Registered: 04/10/13
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Loc: Space is the Place
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said: I tell you, getting a good beating a few times in my life did me the world of good.
Sometimes you need life to come at you fast...
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Thanatos10
Stranger



Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 2,770
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said: I tell you, getting a good beating a few times in my life did me the world of good.
Pretty sure that ends up damaging more people than it helps.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Pretty sure that ends up damaging more people than it helps.
Pretty sure you're in absolutely NO position at all to be pretty sure about how anything in my life affected me, 'ol chum.
I tell you now and I tell you very straight and with absolute confidence - for my own relations to my experiences after many years of reflecting on them are the only thing I can have any reasonable certainty about in this life - and that is that ABSOLUTELY getting my ass kicked made me a more humble person each time it happened.
I would not change it for the world.
I can sure as fuck think of half a dozen life experiences that might help drag you out of your dark hole, but, as you say 'why bother'?
I think you might actually be the laziest person I've ever come across.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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Psion
Sage
Registered: 09/11/18
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what's it matter to you, if you can't verify other people don't exist? if they don't exist, you can do whatever you want to them, up to and including rape and murder. they don't exist - they don't matter.
up and until the point you get arrested/beaten up that is. reality has a way of pointing out the flaw in your logic pretty fast then.
of course, you could say that they're just figments of your imagination and therefore you just suck at imagining them away... come to think of it, drizzt actually had this very dilemma in one of the newest forgotten realm novels of his. i highly recommend the books by the way - the first book of his series is "homeland" if i remember right. great reads that discuss a broad range of issues, and there's something for everyone from all sorts of writers. (there's over 250 books in the series spanning thousands of years covering different races, gods, and areas!)
but drizzt's books are one of the best starting points for anyone, since they're the series that started it all, and i feel they're a great teaching tool on how to reflect on your life - how you got to where you are, and where you want to go.
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Thanatos10
Stranger



Registered: 01/19/15
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Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Pretty sure that ends up damaging more people than it helps.
Pretty sure you're in absolutely NO position at all to be pretty sure about how anything in my life affected me, 'ol chum.
I tell you now and I tell you very straight and with absolute confidence - for my own relations to my experiences after many years of reflecting on them are the only thing I can have any reasonable certainty about in this life - and that is that ABSOLUTELY getting my ass kicked made me a more humble person each time it happened.
I would not change it for the world.
I can sure as fuck think of half a dozen life experiences that might help drag you out of your dark hole, but, as you say 'why bother'?
I think you might actually be the laziest person I've ever come across.
It’s not lazy to point out a problem that has no solution.
http://schwitzsplinters.blogspot.com/2012/01/is-solipsism-simple.html?m=1
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Thanatos10
Stranger



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Yes solipsism is simple, and that we don't know there's an external world is simpler than saying "there's an external world", but methodological solipsism is complicated and not so simple. I have to therefore draw the conclusions of my senses (touch, taste, feel, smell, sight, and hearing), and focus only on that, together with Ockham's razor, and use no induction, and conclude I may be a brain in a vat, which isn't simple, but if I said you don't exist and you're zombies, together with disbelieving in God's existence and not doing moral codes it's as simple as that: each element isn't subdivided, and to say there's an external world I would need an explanation of the unperceivable, that someone did something I can't see or touch is the case, with no logic and no proof, wouldn't be so simple as solipsism, but given my logic isn't simple, it's simply the case of my senses and not believing anything I can't sense, being unknowable as to whether it's a hallucination, it's simply the case that there's no gods.
From the link.
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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Fiery
Sword of Fire


Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 36,574
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Re: What is Love? [Re: MrMoon]
#26649323 - 05/04/20 10:22 PM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
MrMoon said: Baby dont hurt me Dont hurt me No more
I've been hearing this song for days!
Is is like some sort of universal call?
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Thanatos10
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And from another link:
Yeah, it's one of those pointless mind games that can't be disproved. I'm glad that people ponder these things, but hopefully they move on to more productive problems. Personally, and intuitively though solipism is perfectly plausible, it seems unlikely given my experience with the world. There is something going on with perception and how it is in the mind that we experience the world, but my feelings and emotions on the subject, however highly subjective, make me believe that solipism is too strong of a stance. I can't quite go so far to believe I generate all these things in the universe, but all these experience are in my mind, and my perception is unique and my own, thus making it in a way "my universe"-but this doesn't exclude the possibility of other minds.
The explanation of the best hypothesis I think lends more credible belief to the possibility of other minds. For example, when you see the lights off in a town the explanation to the best hypothesis is that a power outage occurred and not that the Martian invaded and turned off the power supply. Past experiences tend not to support the Martian invasion. However, the sceptic or solipist can argue even these things ad infinitum. But where does this lead me? I don't think it really helps me in my living, only in so far as it helps me question the beliefs of the world (which is very good).
More importantly does solipism help me be a better person, and treat myself better, i.e., make me happy? I don't think solipism does that since it assumes you know your mind which I dispute. Prove to me that you know your mind. What if someone is just planting these thoughts into your head, then is that really your mind? Did you have a mind to begin with?
Solipism and more importantly sceptism undermine this solipistic position of your actually being the only mind by questioning whether you have a mind to begin with. So, though while solipism can't be proven wrong, scepticism can take it to task and even put serious problems to the solipist.
"I think therefore I am", is highly disputed. Thought shows only some form of existence (that probably is argued too) and doesn't guarantee that YOU are REAL, which is the crux of the solipistic assumption.
Even if there is a Cartesian demon, you could never find out, so why not concentrate on being happier and find out how to do that? Whether the world is mind generated or not, it does appear to have some laws and I think for individuals we should find those personal laws that help us out the most.
https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=1071570
-------------------- As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.
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oculodextro

Registered: 04/10/13
Posts: 1,205
Loc: Space is the Place
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: Even if there is a Cartesian demon, you could never find out, so why not concentrate on being happier and find out how to do that? Whether the world is mind generated or not, it does appear to have some laws and I think for individuals we should find those personal laws that help us out the most.
https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=1071570
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Fiery
Sword of Fire


Registered: 12/24/12
Posts: 36,574
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Quote:
LogicaL Chaos said: When i read the thread title, that song chorus instantly popped into my head.

:yesrly:

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InnerWisdom



Registered: 08/09/19
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Isn't it just futile to give a fuck about solipsism though? You cannot know so why bother going on about it? You say you cant be sure if others are real or anything outside of your awareness, so why want to be sure? This is some form of mental masturbation and I am still sure you dont want out of it. It makes no sense to actually value solipsism or believe in it. It is just a philosophical problem. The fact that you think it is true or afraid of it being the truth means that you believe in it just like some people believe in god. Most other people would realise the solipsist problem and carry on because they cant know for sure so why bother. But not you. No no no. You have to know although you cannot and you want others to know the existential dread you are in, but you dont want out or you cant get out, in which case the underlying problem is not solipsism but it is you, and you need to realise that and help yourself. Good luck to you on your journey.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: It’s not lazy to point out a problem that has no solution.
No, but it's lazy beyond belief to use this problem as a cop out to not do anything, internally or externally, which is basically exactly what you're doing.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,732
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Mu
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,961
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Quote:
Thanatos10 said: As I keep trying to say, I can't verify that other people exist. Therefor any action I take with or towards them would be wasteful, getting invested and bonding with them would be wasteful since I can't be sure if they exist or not.
If one TRULY is everything then nihilism is the only outcome and then suicide promptly after.
Back when i was taking a lot of O-TCE this extraordinary thing happened: a platoon of soldiers moved through my living room, from the darkness of the front room in front of me, right beside me to the kitchen behind of me.
They moved slowly, covered the area with their assault rifles looking for the Enemy.
It had incredible detail. Some smoked cigarettes etc.
I knew I was having a waking dream.
Than didnt stop me from interacting with them, giving them hand signals, exchanging winks and other acknowledgements, at times one stopped by me and examined me like I examined him..
I pointed to the rifle of one of them, he took the magazine out, checkled if it were still full, reconnected it and reloaded it.
I knew that they were probably figments of my imagination brought forth by a combinatuion of drugs, meditation and dreaming while awake.
Still we exchanged courtesies between them, I bore them no ill will.
It wasnt futile to interact with them, not wasteful, and it sparked amazement, wonder and happy vibes and certainly not nihilism and suicide.
"Guerillas in the mist" - an AWESOME experience!
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,961
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Re: What is Love? [Re: Asante]
#26649955 - 05/05/20 07:17 AM (3 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thanatos.
Everything is SOMETHING.
Nothing can be NOTHING.
Therefore you always interact with SOMETHING which ON SOME LEVEL has substance.
That's worth something, that's always worth something.
Do you masturbate? If you do, part of you interacts with part of you to mutual satisfaction.
Thats worth something and in fact your nuts pay up for it if you do it right.
Interacting with parts of you is only meaningless if you assign no value to yourself.
If you are all there is, you are all that represents value, therefore you are of infinite value as solipsism dictates that nothing exists outside of you.
If nothing exists outside of you, YOU ARE THE UNIVERSE.
You are only suffering this because you dont see the whole picture.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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