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Offlinelost wanderer
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Do some genetics not fruit?
    #26646289 - 05/03/20 03:29 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I know a lot of growth is based on genetics, but do some combos just not fruit???

I Have had three batches of tubs now with no growth.  Had no issues before but now i can not get any to fruit.  The end up sitting in the monos for approx 2 months and then show signs of contamination.
These are my latest.  Good looking agar to grain then bulk spawn.  It is GT.  I have not used new spores since i started, but have only done 3 or 4 plate transfers from a MS syringe since my start 1.5 year ago.

These have been in the tubs for 1 month now.  No pins or anything.  Not even side pins. 

Only thing i can think of is pitching any cultures and such I have and starting all from scratch with a new syringe from the net.  Any ideas?

Pics are from 2 different tubs.  I can also take pics of the agar transfers i also did at the time from the same strain.





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OfflineSkulltivator
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Re: Do some genetics not fruit? [Re: lost wanderer]
    #26646969 - 05/03/20 08:40 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

lost wanderer said:
I know a lot of growth is based on genetics, but do some combos just not fruit???




I've always thought this was a good thread on this question.


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Offlinelost wanderer
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Re: Do some genetics not fruit? [Re: Skulltivator]
    #26646991 - 05/03/20 08:53 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Thank for the thread link.  Seems like he had multiple tubs just never flush.  He did not identify which agars were from which clone.  No one seemed surprised he had so many that did nothing.  I think these three runs have been came from the same jar.  I picked my best looking one and split it multiple ways.  This has also led me to nothing!

I guess I have to assume i have crap genes and need to scrap it all.  I am pretty sure that all my agar and jars are from the same genes. 

My next question is: I have a MS syringe from 1.5 years ago that has been in my fridge.  Should i just chuck it and get a new one or try it out on agar?


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: Do some genetics not fruit? [Re: lost wanderer]
    #26647056 - 05/03/20 09:31 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I didn't look at the link but picture 2 seems like it is knotting. Picture 1 is still. Colonizing the sub.


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Offlinepoisoned
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Re: Do some genetics not fruit? [Re: Sockadin]
    #26647301 - 05/04/20 01:03 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

You're not working with isolates, so that thread is very irrelevant to you. Your MS tub has 1000s of different genetics, so plenty of those should be capable of fruiting.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Do some genetics not fruit? [Re: lost wanderer]
    #26647464 - 05/04/20 04:53 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

lost wanderer said:
I know a lot of growth is based on genetics, but do some combos just not fruit???

I Have had three batches of tubs now with no growth.  Had no issues before but now i can not get any to fruit.  The end up sitting in the monos for approx 2 months and then show signs of contamination.
These are my latest.  Good looking agar to grain then bulk spawn.  It is GT.  I have not used new spores since i started, but have only done 3 or 4 plate transfers from a MS syringe since my start 1.5 year ago.

These have been in the tubs for 1 month now.  No pins or anything.  Not even side pins. 

Only thing i can think of is pitching any cultures and such I have and starting all from scratch with a new syringe from the net.  Any ideas?

Pics are from 2 different tubs.  I can also take pics of the agar transfers i also did at the time from the same strain.







If you're growing from a syringe it's not genetics lol. There's 1000s


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Offlinelost wanderer
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Re: Do some genetics not fruit? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26648025 - 05/04/20 10:37 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

that makes sense.  My understanding is that it takes many transfers to get a true isolate.

So then i need to pivot and wonder why i am unable to get fruits.  I am out of ideas.  I am just going on the assumption that storing the myc in the fridge for multiple multiple months has caused some problem.  It revived nicely when i transferred it and the jars all looked good.  But three sets of tubs not growing sucks.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Do some genetics not fruit? [Re: lost wanderer]
    #26648054 - 05/04/20 10:49 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Conditions


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OfflineSkulltivator
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Re: Do some genetics not fruit? [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #26648058 - 05/04/20 10:50 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Oh, yeah. Of course.

Dunno why I thought you were working with isolates...

Duh.

But on this...

Quote:

lost wanderer said:
My next question is: I have a MS syringe from 1.5 years ago that has been in my fridge.  Should i just chuck it and get a new one or try it out on agar?




I think it's worth trying the agar. Why not?

Here's RR on spore age.


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Offlinelost wanderer
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Re: Do some genetics not fruit? [Re: Skulltivator]
    #26648078 - 05/04/20 10:59 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

If i understand him, It seems like he is saying that dead spore would not grow so if i put the old MS syringe onto agar and it grows then i am good.

Bod.  I will have to look at my conditions.  The only thing i can think of adding is a grow light for more consistent light.  I have been using your mono tub tek.  I think i have good FAE but i can always increase it.........


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Invisiblegoatchild
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Re: Do some genetics not fruit? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26648107 - 05/04/20 11:13 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

On my first grow I inoculated 12 jars:
- 4 jars with Transkei variety.
- 4 jars with Mazatapec
- 4 jars with Thai Pink Buffallo

Results were:
- 4 Transkei cakes fruited
- 4 Mazatapec cakes produced tiny mutants that would abort after a couple days so I never harvested a single mushroom from these.
- 4 Thai Pink Buffalo cakes produced zero pins/fruits


If a single squirt from a MS syringe will produce 100s of 1000s of genetics, how come all the 4 cakes within a certain variety produced the same results?

If it was my fruiting conditions to blame then the 4 Transkei cakes would not produce fruits, which they did. Got 3 flushes from these 4 cakes. Only problem with these cakes was the fruits were small.

Here's a link to my thread/journal:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26469982#26469982

Don't want to hijack the thread. Only reason I am asking you Bod is because this genetics issue confuses me. And I think it's somewhat related to ops problem.


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Edited by goatchild (05/04/20 11:14 AM)


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Invisiblewoofwoof
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Re: Do some genetics not fruit? [Re: goatchild]
    #26648113 - 05/04/20 11:18 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

goatchild said:

If a single squirt from a MS syringe will produce 100s of 1000s of genetics, how come all the 4 cakes within a certain variety produced the same results?






A lot also depends on your conditions. For example, if your sub is too wet, then you may get smaller fruits across the board. It can be difficult sometimes to determine genetics or conditions until you learn to dial in your environment and your fruiting/surface conditions/light/etc


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OfflineSkulltivator
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Re: Do some genetics not fruit? [Re: lost wanderer]
    #26648437 - 05/04/20 02:00 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

lost wanderer said:
If i understand him, It seems like he is saying that dead spore would not grow so if i put the old MS syringe onto agar and it grows then i am good.




Well, he says that prints on paper or foil don't last all that long, but spore syringes can last decades. So I think you're fine with one that's 1.5 years old. I've done half that old successfully before.


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OfflineSkulltivator
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Re: Do some genetics not fruit? [Re: goatchild]
    #26648440 - 05/04/20 02:02 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

goatchild said:
If a single squirt from a MS syringe will produce 100s of 1000s of genetics, how come all the 4 cakes within a certain variety produced the same results?





Dunno if I'm the only one, but not following here. What do you mean by 'same results'?


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Invisiblegoatchild
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Re: Do some genetics not fruit? [Re: Skulltivator]
    #26648486 - 05/04/20 02:36 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Skulltivator said:
Quote:

goatchild said:
If a single squirt from a MS syringe will produce 100s of 1000s of genetics, how come all the 4 cakes within a certain variety produced the same results?





Dunno if I'm the only one, but not following here. What do you mean by 'same results'?




All 4 jars inoculated with Transkei spore syringe got the same results, all 4 fruited.
All 4 jars inoculated with Mazatapec spore syringe got the same results, all 4 fruited small mutants that would abort 2 days after+-.
All 4 jars inoculated with Thai Pink Buffalo spore syringe got the same results, all 4 did not fruit at all.
If 1000s of strains are randomly generated from each squirt of the syringes than why did I get consistency (same results) with for example all 4 Mazatapec cakes (small mutants that would abort)?


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Invisiblewoofwoof
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Re: Do some genetics not fruit? [Re: goatchild]
    #26648499 - 05/04/20 02:44 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

conditions! maybe your stuff is too wet, which will effect everything across the board in a similar way


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OfflineSkulltivator
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Re: Do some genetics not fruit? [Re: woofwoof]
    #26652621 - 05/06/20 09:56 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

:whathesaid:

But thank you, goat, for clarifying. Yes, I see what you mean now. I think the results you mentioned are too common and too affected by conditions to attribute confidently to genetics. If we were talking about fruits 10x the normal size or category five level trips off a dime sized cube or something like that, then maybe the genetics might seem more responsible. I'm exaggerating, obviously, but I hope it makes the point.


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Offlinelost wanderer
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Re: Do some genetics not fruit? [Re: Skulltivator]
    #26652672 - 05/06/20 10:29 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

thanks for all the responses.  It is just frustrating some times.  When i started, I knew very little and yet got plenty of things to grow.  Even when i was really messing things up, I still had stuff fruit.  Now that I know more and would assume I am using better techniques, I am failing much much more.


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Invisiblewoofwoof
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Re: Do some genetics not fruit? [Re: lost wanderer]
    #26652681 - 05/06/20 10:34 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

failure is a good thing..in the sense that you are getting a feel for what is working and what is not.
Did you fruit at spawn? or?


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Offlinelost wanderer
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Re: Do some genetics not fruit? [Re: woofwoof]
    #26652726 - 05/06/20 10:58 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

The issue is i'm not sure the cause of my failure.

After my initial learning failures, I had OK success doing a few bulk grows.  Never a huge awesome flush like i see pictures of but plenty of results to keep me happy.

I was doing A2G and G2G with success.  I used BOD's techs.

I had to step away for 6-8 months for travel.

When I Got back i tried to reboot my grows.  I had multiple grain jars and agar that had been sitting around for that time.  I tried to bulk spawn the jars but they had no growth after a month+ and eventually showed contam. This did not surprise me but thought it was worth a try.

I took 3 different agar plates and did A2G and A2A from them.  Everything acted right and I had even posted some pictures on here to confirm that things were back on track because one looked very different than what i am used to.  Used those for g2g and did three different bulk tubs.  All growth looked normal but no fruit. 

I reevaluated my tech, looked for corners i may have cut or errors and tightened up my grow conditions.  This last time I picked the best looking jar from 2 of the strains and g2g and then bulked them.  This is my current one but looks like i will not have any fruit.

I travel a lot so i do not often have 2-3 months of uninterrupted time to do grows.  I have to pause before i spawn to tend to them.

My next plan is to trash everything i have (unused agar/petri, agar cultures, grains, and anything growing) and restart from a MS syringe i have in the fridge.  Just sucks to have to walk it all back that far.


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