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DrZero
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Adding peanuts to bulk substrate as a method to fight Trich? 1
#26647883 - 05/04/20 09:37 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Hey All,
Came across this paper this morning and there could be potential here for substrate amendments using peanuts as a natural way to fight Trich infections. Would be interested to learn if anyone has tried anything like this.
Quick edit here in case people don't want to actually read through the paper. The researchers isolated and cultured Bacillus amyloliquefaciens from peanuts and tested against a couple of different strains of Trich and in presence of oyster mushroom mycelium. Results showed significant inhibition of trich growth without harm to mycelial growth. What I'm wondering is if you could just add peanuts to bulk substrate (without pasteurization)... or do the risks of adding other contaminants outweigh the benefits? It's possible that peanuts would also add nutrients to the mix. I'm sure someone skilled in the way of agar work could repeat the isolation of Bacillus amyloliquefaciens and add that to bulk substrate to see if it has any affect on psilocybe growth.
Edited by DrZero (05/04/20 10:00 AM)
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normalperson
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Re: Adding peanuts to bulk substrate as a method to fight Trich? [Re: DrZero]
#26648339 - 05/04/20 01:07 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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The best way to fight Trich is with clean spawn. a few peanuts in your grains wouldn't hurt anything but could be a launchpad for contaminations in your substrate.
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bodhisatta
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Re: Adding peanuts to bulk substrate as a method to fight Trich? [Re: normalperson]
#26648553 - 05/04/20 03:26 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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No dude. An ounce of prevention is worth way more than a pound of "cure" besides the peanuts would become a contamination vector for some different grow killing mold
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Pliny_the_Elder
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Re: Adding peanuts to bulk substrate as a method to fight Trich? [Re: bodhisatta]
#26648622 - 05/04/20 04:11 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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You can buy that strain of Bacillus as a product called Hydroguard, meant for maintaining healthy roots in a hydroponic system. I may I'll try it next time I get an outbreak.
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PinkStormtrooper
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Re: Adding peanuts to bulk substrate as a method to fight Trich? [Re: Pliny_the_Elder]
#26648694 - 05/04/20 04:51 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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peanuts are in the WBS I use - so far so good.
-------------------- "say, you got a little astroglide on your moustache"
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panne cyanne
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Re: Adding peanuts to bulk substrate as a method to fight Trich? [Re: PinkStormtrooper]
#26650118 - 05/05/20 08:55 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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i bet you could agar sample a peanut packing plant and find trich. i think aspergillus is common contaminate of peanuts also. among other things.
as an anti biotic answer id have my doubts in the concentrations and distribution used for a bulk
Edited by panne cyanne (05/05/20 08:58 AM)
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DrZero
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Re: Adding peanuts to bulk substrate as a method to fight Trich? [Re: normalperson]
#26650159 - 05/05/20 09:25 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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I think preventative measures is what I'm getting at, particularly if you are in an area where your grows are susceptible to trich contamination. As far as being a vector for other unwanted growths I was just reading another paper about Bacillus bacteria. They studied various strains and affect of temperature and found that spore death temperatures were in the range of 194°F to 250°F. Since most substrates are pasteurized at 140°F-175°F, it makes it a far better candidate for investigation. Not saying that "sterile" procedure can be done away with, but without a proper lab you can only be so sterile. Additionally, for those who have experienced trich it's extremely difficult to get rid of in the environment and chances for continued infection remain high. Just an idea, but again worth investigating further.
Edited by DrZero (05/05/20 09:39 AM)
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panne cyanne
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Re: Adding peanuts to bulk substrate as a method to fight Trich? [Re: DrZero]
#26650409 - 05/05/20 11:11 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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i wonder if the downstream consumers with peanut allergies would find this a minefield?
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bodhisatta
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Re: Adding peanuts to bulk substrate as a method to fight Trich? [Re: DrZero]
#26650429 - 05/05/20 11:20 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
DrZero said: I think preventative measures is what I'm getting at, particularly if you are in an area where your grows are susceptible to trich contamination. As far as being a vector for other unwanted growths I was just reading another paper about Bacillus bacteria. They studied various strains and affect of temperature and found that spore death temperatures were in the range of 194°F to 250°F. Since most substrates are pasteurized at 140°F-175°F, it makes it a far better candidate for investigation. Not saying that "sterile" procedure can be done away with, but without a proper lab you can only be so sterile. Additionally, for those who have experienced trich it's extremely difficult to get rid of in the environment and chances for continued infection remain high. Just an idea, but again worth investigating further.
Trich is everywhere. Every breath of air you take in has trich spores
Its really absolutely no problem to keep growing in a place you had a trich problem. You don't even need to clean. You just need to prepare good jars.
It's not hard to get rid of. Its not going to ruin your grow space. Trich in the environment isn't even really a vector to your grows. Once spawn is fully colonised its contamination resistant enough that you can spawn to bulk with bare unwashed hands with no contamination risk.
Everyone's experienced trich.
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24sevenZed
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Re: Adding peanuts to bulk substrate as a method to fight Trich? [Re: bodhisatta]
#26651275 - 05/05/20 05:13 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Of course preventing Trich is the proper goal if you actually want mushrooms. But still I’m thinking flip this idea on it’s head and ask: if you have ideas like this about controlling Trich or other organisms, and you are still practicing sterile procedure, how would you know that your idea actually worked?
I think you would need to deliberately infect your spawn with Trich in order to test that theory somehow.
So - should you just buy some Trich? I know it’s used for plant growth enhancement, but that might not be the same species that’s giving you problems - right? Should you start a slant of your trich bombs and run them later? Can you just slurry a plate of trichoderma, toss it in a spray bottle and get to work infecting your spawn?
And so on and so forth. Perhaps the linked paper gave some examples and I should actually read it.
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DrZero
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Re: Adding peanuts to bulk substrate as a method to fight Trich? [Re: 24sevenZed]
#26651604 - 05/05/20 08:07 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Ha! The paper does actually infect agar plates with trich in presence of both mycelium and Bacillus with positive results. I am interested in bacillus in the presence of cubensis myceluim. Would it compete for nutrients, i.e. does it affect grow time or yield? Anyways, these are just the fine details of basic science. I may run some agar to check it out for myself. I also saw a bunch of papers that were using waste (pea)nut shells as a substrate base (which sell for $20/ton from nut farmers) for commercial mushrooms. Not sure if it works better for wood loving species or would be suitable for cubensis grows. Lots of questions to be answered, but maybe some potential as well. Asking questions is what leads to improvement in methods... continuing to use the "tried and true" methods = no improvements. Happy to have some failed experiments if it definitively answers some of these questions.
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panne cyanne
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Re: Adding peanuts to bulk substrate as a method to fight Trich? [Re: DrZero]
#26653452 - 05/06/20 06:04 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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id have to see this and variables on peanut butter or peanut shell agar to assess how practical it is.
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PinkStormtrooper
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Re: Adding peanuts to bulk substrate as a method to fight Trich? [Re: panne cyanne]
#26654401 - 05/07/20 04:55 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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kind of a wet lookin picture in there but
myc on a peanut
all I got
oh also sunflower seedlins
-------------------- "say, you got a little astroglide on your moustache"
Edited by PinkStormtrooper (05/08/20 05:04 AM)
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bodhisatta
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Re: Adding peanuts to bulk substrate as a method to fight Trich? [Re: PinkStormtrooper] 1
#26654403 - 05/07/20 05:00 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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Willing to bet more than a lot of people have gotten trich on peanuts in wbs too
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panne cyanne
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Re: Adding peanuts to bulk substrate as a method to fight Trich? [Re: bodhisatta]
#26655631 - 05/07/20 05:21 PM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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not sure i would do a peanut shell monotub. but, i can see where a peanut shell extract might work with agar as an inhibitor.
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normalperson
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Re: Adding peanuts to bulk substrate as a method to fight Trich? [Re: panne cyanne]
#26656754 - 05/08/20 07:10 AM (3 years, 10 months ago) |
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every time i spawn to bulk i introduce trich spores into my grow, a bunch of other crap also. clean spawn and a coir sub are all i need for 2 or 3 good flushes.
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