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24sevenZed
~Z3D3Z~



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Re: Psilocybe cubensis type collection [Re: MadMuncher]
#26657770 - 05/08/20 03:46 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Indeed. Looking around it appears the Spanish brought cattle to Cuba around the 1500s, so we can assume they brought the Cubes too.
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MadMuncher
destroy weyerhauser



Registered: 10/27/12
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Re: Psilocybe cubensis type collection [Re: 24sevenZed]
#26657778 - 05/08/20 03:52 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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possibly. could have been later though, maybe after the colonization of the Philippines and more imports from tropical/subtropical pacific asian islands or something
liberty caps are probably from europe or maybe some mediteranean area. not sure about fimetaria, cyans, azzies, baeos, silvatica, ovoids and such. we know nothing
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amanita phalloides prints for trade $BanEnlil $IgnoreEnlil Spicemaster said: The stories. The words. The descriptions. Keep your list handy. 1234Go said: I bet you guys PM about me... Ban Lotto Wins: IIIII
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Psilosadhu



Registered: 12/19/19
Posts: 1,887
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Re: Psilocybe cubensis type collection [Re: MadMuncher]
#26658526 - 05/08/20 09:06 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
MadMuncher said:
Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said: This is the only non-native Psilocybe species found in the Americas
where are cyans, azzies, libs, baeos, ovoids, stunzii native to?
Psilocybe cyanescens are native to America and Europe, semilanceata to northern hemisphere, baeocystis, ovoideocystidiata and stuntzii are native to America.
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Psilosadhu



Registered: 12/19/19
Posts: 1,887
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Re: Psilocybe cubensis type collection [Re: Psilosadhu]
#26658557 - 05/08/20 09:20 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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As it seems cubensis are native to Asia, the Philippines could be a possibility. The English had India and Malaysia long before that, though. Could come from there. Fuck knows. Azurescens is American I believe, it's only recently been found outside the US. Silvatica is only found in America. Liberty caps on the other hand could very well be native to Eurasia, I suppose. Guess we'll never find out.
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MadMuncher
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Re: Psilocybe cubensis type collection [Re: Psilosadhu]
#26658589 - 05/08/20 09:30 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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i don't know where liberty caps would have native habitat in the americas pre-european contact, the only native sheep im aware of are in high mountains. not many coastal pastures before they logged dredged and diked for cows. what about fimicola? where are cyans native to? possibly the extremely unique ecosystems in san fransisco bay before it was destroyed?
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amanita phalloides prints for trade $BanEnlil $IgnoreEnlil Spicemaster said: The stories. The words. The descriptions. Keep your list handy. 1234Go said: I bet you guys PM about me... Ban Lotto Wins: IIIII
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Psilosadhu



Registered: 12/19/19
Posts: 1,887
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Re: Psilocybe cubensis type collection [Re: MadMuncher]
#26658640 - 05/08/20 10:04 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Liberty caps aren't dependent on sheep. I mostly find them in cow pastures. In America there used to be millions of bisons around. But it is possible it came from Europe as well, I don't know. Panaeolus fimicola, everywhere I suppose. Like cinctulus. Psilocybe fimetaria, don't know, could be introduced, could be native. I rarely find them. Panaeolus cyanescens are from Asia.
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MadMuncher
destroy weyerhauser



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Re: Psilocybe cubensis type collection [Re: Psilosadhu]
#26658653 - 05/08/20 10:12 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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there weren't many coastal pastures with large herbivores in suitable climates for liberty caps or those other less common pasture psilocybe before europeans arrived, the habitats we find them in usa are all man made coastal pastures with exotic farm stock
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amanita phalloides prints for trade $BanEnlil $IgnoreEnlil Spicemaster said: The stories. The words. The descriptions. Keep your list handy. 1234Go said: I bet you guys PM about me... Ban Lotto Wins: IIIII
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Psilosadhu



Registered: 12/19/19
Posts: 1,887
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Re: Psilocybe cubensis type collection [Re: MadMuncher]
#26658677 - 05/08/20 10:25 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Searh "great bison belt". Psilocybe semilanceata can also grow quite far from the sea. Another fact is, even though it thrives in habitats where cattle are grazing, it isn't dependent on them, like cubensis. But wether it was imported from Europe or is native is hard to say. I think both are possible.
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MadMuncher
destroy weyerhauser



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Re: Psilocybe cubensis type collection [Re: Psilosadhu]
#26658697 - 05/08/20 10:35 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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nobody find libs in the great bison belt or near bison unless they're raised on coastal ranches. the habitats don't overlap
same with the other pasture loving psilocybe the habitats are all man made
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amanita phalloides prints for trade $BanEnlil $IgnoreEnlil Spicemaster said: The stories. The words. The descriptions. Keep your list handy. 1234Go said: I bet you guys PM about me... Ban Lotto Wins: IIIII
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Psilosadhu



Registered: 12/19/19
Posts: 1,887
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Re: Psilocybe cubensis type collection [Re: MadMuncher]
#26658754 - 05/08/20 11:12 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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They overlap indeed. Have you seen the map of the great bison belt? It goes from coast to coast. Liberty caps are also recorded from Minnesota, which is probably as far from the coast as you can get in the US. And on both coasts (both within aforementioned belt), but not between, something I find odd. That may suggest it is introduced. Again, libs aren't dependent on cattle, but they certainly thrive on grazing land. And with 60.000.000 bison around back in the day, I think there should be way more liberty caps around.
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MadMuncher
destroy weyerhauser



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Re: Psilocybe cubensis type collection [Re: Psilosadhu]
#26658762 - 05/08/20 11:18 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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i did look at the map. they don't overlap at all on the west coast, maybe just barely in a few places on the east coast. check out mushroom observer where are you seeing a find from minn?
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amanita phalloides prints for trade $BanEnlil $IgnoreEnlil Spicemaster said: The stories. The words. The descriptions. Keep your list handy. 1234Go said: I bet you guys PM about me... Ban Lotto Wins: IIIII
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MadMuncher
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Re: Psilocybe cubensis type collection [Re: MadMuncher]
#26658771 - 05/08/20 11:23 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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nvm. found it. libs don't grow inland in the americas. there is no habitat. there are no buffalo along the coasts. https://mushroomobserver.org/48164?q=1CU5J
Quote:
Doubting this is a real observation By: Alan Rockefeller (Alan Rockefeller) 2017-09-28 14:51:45 PDT (-0700) This observation is far outside its normal range, and is the only observation that dave (smokeymcblunt420) has made. The image is from flickr, and the 750 pixel size is more consistent with an image downloaded from the web than one taken with a Nikon d3000.
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amanita phalloides prints for trade $BanEnlil $IgnoreEnlil Spicemaster said: The stories. The words. The descriptions. Keep your list handy. 1234Go said: I bet you guys PM about me... Ban Lotto Wins: IIIII
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MadMuncher
destroy weyerhauser



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Alan Rockefeller
you are being paged. we've got questions
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amanita phalloides prints for trade $BanEnlil $IgnoreEnlil Spicemaster said: The stories. The words. The descriptions. Keep your list handy. 1234Go said: I bet you guys PM about me... Ban Lotto Wins: IIIII
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Psilosadhu



Registered: 12/19/19
Posts: 1,887
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Re: Psilocybe cubensis type collection [Re: MadMuncher]
#26658799 - 05/08/20 11:39 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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That makes sense. The buffaloes used to go to the coasts. But whatever. Don't think it has any relevance. I do find it strange that there is such distance between populations. It does indeed suggest that it is introduced.
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MadMuncher
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Re: Psilocybe cubensis type collection [Re: Psilosadhu]
#26658875 - 05/09/20 12:41 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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amanita phalloides prints for trade $BanEnlil $IgnoreEnlil Spicemaster said: The stories. The words. The descriptions. Keep your list handy. 1234Go said: I bet you guys PM about me... Ban Lotto Wins: IIIII
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
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Re: Psilocybe cubensis type collection [Re: MadMuncher]
#26658951 - 05/09/20 01:22 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
MadMuncher said:
Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said: This is the only non-native Psilocybe species found in the Americas
where are cyans, azzies, libs, baeos, ovoids, stunzii native to?
The places they were described from.
Quote:
24sevenZed said: How do we know Psilocybe Cubensis is not native to Cuba? Based on genetic evidence? If this type specimen was described in 1906 do we have some idea of when it arrived? Is it inferred because of the introduction of cattle at some point?
It grows on the manure of animals that weren't in Cuba before Europeans came, and it's closest phylogenetic relative is found in China.
Quote:
MadMuncher said: Psilocybe cyanescens are native to America and Europe
P. cyanescens are likely introduced to Europe, they were first found in Kew Gardens, where they bring plants from all over the world.
Quote:
Psilosadhu said: Silvatica is only found in America. Liberty caps on the other hand could very well be native to Eurasia, I suppose. Guess we'll never find out.
We will because genetic diversity can be seen with full genome sequencing. If the European populations are more diverse than the North American populations, it has been introduced from there.
Quote:
MadMuncher said: where are cyans native to? possibly the extremely unique ecosystems in san fransisco bay before it was destroyed?
Probably not native to the bay area because it is never found in the wild there. In northern Oregon and Washington it is found in the wild, so that's probably where it evolved.
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MadMuncher
destroy weyerhauser



Registered: 10/27/12
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you crack me up dude
Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
MadMuncher Never said:
Psilocybe cyanescens are native to America and Europe
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amanita phalloides prints for trade $BanEnlil $IgnoreEnlil Spicemaster said: The stories. The words. The descriptions. Keep your list handy. 1234Go said: I bet you guys PM about me... Ban Lotto Wins: IIIII
Edited by MadMuncher (05/09/20 10:51 AM)
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Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
Posts: 13,753
Loc: Gulf Coast USA
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Re: Psilocybe cubensis type collection [Re: MadMuncher]
#26659862 - 05/09/20 11:57 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thank you Alan for sharing this information, I have been fascinated with this for decades and always believed that they originated in Asia not Cuba as the name suggests.
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  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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Psilosadhu



Registered: 12/19/19
Posts: 1,887
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Re: Psilocybe cubensis type collection [Re: Doc9151]
#26660630 - 05/09/20 06:45 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I read somewhere that there were some microscopic differences between the American and European collections of p. cyanescens, something with the cheilocystidia if I remember correctly, that suggested that European cyanescens maybe wasn't introduced from America after all. But this was years ago. As for silvatica in Europe, aren't they called medullosa now? Or are these two species coexisting in Europe somewhere?
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Doc9151
Mycologist



Registered: 02/23/17
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Re: Psilocybe cubensis type collection [Re: Psilosadhu]
#26661837 - 05/10/20 08:07 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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I read something like that as well but I don't know if it has been verified.
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  Psilocybe cubensis data collection thread. please help with this project if you hunt wild cubensis. https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26513593&page=0&vc=1#26513593
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