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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,732
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: Better to never have been [Re: Asante]
    #26646664 - 05/03/20 06:08 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

If we use Thanatos’ perversion of kiddy logic, than I’m going to need you all to disprove or prove that we live in some higher beings mind that is imagining the universe. 

We can’t move on until we figure this one out boys!  Without knowing for certain if it’s true or false no one is allowed to do anything, and we may as well submit like pussies to our own pity party .

Also, the spaghetti monster called, and he wants in on the whole prove or disprove it.  He’s asking for evidence that he doesn’t exist or does.


As ridiculous as it all sounds, ignore that little part for me!  What’s important is that since you cannot show me evidence for or against it with any certainty -  surely all is just my own ego :smug:


Why that?  Because I say so.  Ignore everything about the person and their life and condition - we must answer these questions as if they are a matter of life and death!

If nothing is real or can be verified -  Make sure to stop the press, and turn out the lights and say goodbye to the show!  Because in my small mind I can’t find a way to live when I believe the story that my thoughts make in my head.  🤦‍♂️

:snub:

I have the one true truth of reality, so it must be so. Nay sayers are just ignorant and I know better. :patlal:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (05/03/20 06:12 PM)


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OfflineKetamineAndHoes
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Registered: 03/04/19
Posts: 213
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: Better to never have been [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26646671 - 05/03/20 06:14 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
If we use Thanatos’ perversion of kiddy logic, than I’m going to need you all to disprove or prove that we live in some higher beings mind that is imagining the universe. 

We can’t move on until we figure this one out boys!  Without knowing for certain if it’s true or false no one is allowed to do anything, and we may as well submit like pussies to our own pity party .

Also, the spaghetti monster called, and he wants in on the whole prove or disprove it.  He’s asking for evidence that he doesn’t exist or does.


As ridiculous as it all sounds, ignore that little part for me!  What’s important is that since you cannot show me evidence for or against it with any certainty -  surely all is just my own ego :smug:


Why that?  Because I say so.  Ignore everything about the person and their life and condition - we must answer these questions as if they are a matter of life and death!

:snub:




The logic of antinatalism is simply that it's better to not gamble through giving birth. Having a kid means that child may have  cancer or get run over by a car or become schizophrenic or end up homeless or turn into an opiate addict or get raped/murdered or experience just about any degree of horror.

Sure they won't experience joy but it really doesn't matter because they won't exist in the first place and thus won't miss out on anything. Only beings that exist can miss out on things like food, sex, joy, etc because they have the awareness to recognize they're missing out.

The logic of AN is pretty sound and straightforward. People just distort the philosophy into the idea that all life sucks which isn't really what the philosophy is about at all. The core of the philosophy is that it's wrong to unnecessarily gamble with somebody else's well being.


--------------------
Took a tab, then another tab, then somebody said to me
Nigga, why you babysittin’ only two or three tabs?
Imma show you how to turn it up a notch
First you get a swimmin pool full of acid, then you dive in it
Pool full of acid, then you dive in it
🌊 🌊 🌊 🌊 🌊


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
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Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,732
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: Better to never have been [Re: KetamineAndHoes]
    #26646682 - 05/03/20 06:21 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

But the funny thing is, in a zero sum game - there is paradox.  In the realm of the relative people suffer, but in the realm of the absolute it’s as quantifiable as close to nothing as possible.  So to live is inherently good and better, than to never have been. Considering one day all living beings will no longer be.  In the grand view they are like apparitions that appear real for a while.  Before some fool takes that as my literal interpretation,  just known it’s called poetic license for you amateurs who don’t understand nuance.

Any dualistic construct falls short of reality, and the intellect cannot fully grasp the whole at once as it is.  Hence, to take up a fixed position that doesn’t allow for as much diversity and paradox and contradiction  as reality itself does is to cut oneself off from reality (delusive) in favor of a limited simulacrum off it, and in doing so- to rear further from things as they are.

Anti Natalism included, nihilism, solpisism, all of them when taken alone without regard for reality as it is.  Illusion .  They describe people’s responses to their own limited views of reality and the world, and the worst of them.  It is a descriptor for individuals of a way of thought and being, not a truism.  Mere parts to a whole, a whole in which all responses and considerations are also at play - not just one side.

They all fall short, and when taken as absolute , are mere delusion.


Edited by The Blind Ass (05/03/20 06:25 PM)


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OfflineKetamineAndHoes
Stranger
Registered: 03/04/19
Posts: 213
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: Better to never have been [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26646754 - 05/03/20 06:47 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
But the funny thing is, in a zero sum game - there is paradox.  In the realm of the relative people suffer, but in the realm of the absolute it’s as quantifiable as close to nothing as possible.  So to live is inherently good and better, than to never have been. Considering one day all living beings will no longer be.  In the grand view they are like apparitions that appear real for a while.  Before some fool takes that as my literal interpretation,  just known it’s called poetic license for you amateurs who don’t understand nuance.

Any dualistic construct falls short of reality, and the intellect cannot fully grasp the whole at once as it is.  Hence, to take up a fixed position that doesn’t allow for as much diversity and paradox and contradiction  as reality itself does is to cut oneself off from reality (delusive) in favor of a limited simulacrum off it, and in doing so- to rear further from things as they are.

Anti Natalism included, nihilism, solpisism, all of them when taken alone without regard for reality as it is.  Illusion .  They describe people’s responses to their own limited views of reality and the world, and the worst of them.  It is a descriptor for individuals of a way of thought and being, not a truism.  Mere parts to a whole, a whole in which all responses and considerations are also at play - not just one side.

They all fall short, and when taken as absolute , are mere delusion.




The idea that it's always better to be than not to be is far from the truth. Most people would much rather not exist than be born as a kid with cancer or as the elephant man or as a sex slave. There are many lives that are not worth living simply because they're filled with horror, suffering, and misery. Also, every minute a person commits suicide so clearly life isn't always worth living for everybody.

Your idea that life comes to an end and thus it's better to live doesn't make any logical sense. I don't understand why you draw that conclusion. That's like saying rape is okay because we all die eventually. :lolwut:

I think you're overcomplicating something simple with absolute nonsense. The idea is straightfoward- having kids can create immense harms for the child. This is absolutely true. Therefore, it's more ethical to just not have a child.

Avoiding causing harm to others is more important than creating joy for others. And this is true in how the law works. A person can be sued, jailed, and prosecuted for causing harm (ex. rape, murder, theft, violence) but they can't get in any legal dilemma for refusing to create pleasure for others (eg. not giving birthday gifts, refusing sex, etc). Because avoiding harm is much more ethically important than creating unnecessary pleasure, it's therefore more ethically important to abstain from pro-creation to avoid causing harm to the child.


--------------------
Took a tab, then another tab, then somebody said to me
Nigga, why you babysittin’ only two or three tabs?
Imma show you how to turn it up a notch
First you get a swimmin pool full of acid, then you dive in it
Pool full of acid, then you dive in it
🌊 🌊 🌊 🌊 🌊


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,732
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: Better to never have been [Re: KetamineAndHoes]
    #26646765 - 05/03/20 06:51 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

No it’s not like saying it’s okay.  It’s saying that in the end, our lives likely fade to unreality , and with it any suffering.

Try and think.

It’s not one way or the other, that’s just people’s responses to life and what occurs, and that’s varied.

No need to explain it anyways, those who need a foolproof explanation for everything in life are deluded.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (05/03/20 06:53 PM)


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OfflineThanatos10
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Posts: 2,770
Loc: South Florida
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Re: Better to never have been [Re: Asante]
    #26646769 - 05/03/20 06:54 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
What good is a story if you know it’s a story.




As an author I tell you: knowing that a rollercoaster is a predetermined ride adds to its enjoyment.

Because it is a ride, a story, it is safe to let go and go weeeeee.




Not really, I have lost the sensation of joy from roller coasters because I know them to be predetermined


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflineKetamineAndHoes
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Registered: 03/04/19
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Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: Better to never have been [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26646772 - 05/03/20 06:56 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
No it’s not like saying it’s okay.  It’s saying that in the end, our lives likely fade to unreality , and with it any suffering.

Try and think.

It’s not one way or the other, that’s just people’s responses to life and what occurs, and that’s varied.




The fact that life eventually ends and we all die doesn't suddenly make life worthwhile or better than non-existence. There's no significant connection between your premise and conclusion

Obviously all lives end and fade into oblivion but some lives are still really, really shitty and not worth living while others are okay/good.


--------------------
Took a tab, then another tab, then somebody said to me
Nigga, why you babysittin’ only two or three tabs?
Imma show you how to turn it up a notch
First you get a swimmin pool full of acid, then you dive in it
Pool full of acid, then you dive in it
🌊 🌊 🌊 🌊 🌊


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,732
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: Better to never have been [Re: KetamineAndHoes]
    #26646775 - 05/03/20 06:57 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I know, but that goes double for the opposite.  Like I said, that’s up to the individuals response.  Not some truism.  Stick to talking about your own life.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (05/03/20 06:57 PM)


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OfflineKetamineAndHoes
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Re: Better to never have been [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26646783 - 05/03/20 07:01 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
I know, but that goes double for the opposite.  Like I said, that’s up to the individuals response.  Not some truism.  Stick to talking about your own life.




Antinatalism isn't about the individual's own life though. It's about human life in general. I don't have to be a murder victim or a cancer patient or a homeless person or a schizophrenic individual or a rape victim to know that life can get morbidly dark, horrifying, and terrible. You can see all the horrors that occur daily if you read the news. The point of the philosophy is that gambling with somebody else's well-being by throwing them into existence is unnecessary and unethical and that is very logically sound. Parents who have children with cancer or muscular dystrophy shouldn't complain because it was their decision to breed that placed the child in that predicament. Taking a big gamble with huge harmful risks on somebody else's behalf is clearly wrong.


--------------------
Took a tab, then another tab, then somebody said to me
Nigga, why you babysittin’ only two or three tabs?
Imma show you how to turn it up a notch
First you get a swimmin pool full of acid, then you dive in it
Pool full of acid, then you dive in it
🌊 🌊 🌊 🌊 🌊


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,732
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: Better to never have been [Re: KetamineAndHoes]
    #26646792 - 05/03/20 07:04 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Still, it is someone’s explanation.  It is myopic, and just a part of the whole of possible considerations about life and everything else.

Just a slice of the pie.  Fine when taken in perspective, not fine when taken alone as a truism - that’s just delusion in another form.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Better to never have been [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26647003 - 05/03/20 09:03 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
If we use Thanatos’ perversion of kiddy logic, than I’m going to need you all to disprove or prove that we live in some higher beings mind that is imagining the universe. 

We can’t move on until we figure this one out boys!  Without knowing for certain if it’s true or false no one is allowed to do anything, and we may as well submit like pussies to our own pity party .

Also, the spaghetti monster called, and he wants in on the whole prove or disprove it.  He’s asking for evidence that he doesn’t exist or does.


As ridiculous as it all sounds, ignore that little part for me!  What’s important is that since you cannot show me evidence for or against it with any certainty -  surely all is just my own ego :smug:


Why that?  Because I say so.  Ignore everything about the person and their life and condition - we must answer these questions as if they are a matter of life and death!

If nothing is real or can be verified -  Make sure to stop the press, and turn out the lights and say goodbye to the show!  Because in my small mind I can’t find a way to live when I believe the story that my thoughts make in my head.  🤦‍♂️

:snub:

I have the one true truth of reality, so it must be so. Nay sayers are just ignorant and I know better. :patlal:




How else does one move on when they can’t be sure if other people exist? Wouldn’t the most logical thing to do would be to assume that people don’t exist and the same with external reality if I can’t be sure it/they exist.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflineInnerWisdom
Male


Registered: 08/09/19
Posts: 1,936
Loc: North EU
Last seen: 7 days, 12 hours
Re: Better to never have been [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #26647156 - 05/03/20 11:01 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
What good is a story if you know it’s a story.




As an author I tell you: knowing that a rollercoaster is a predetermined ride adds to its enjoyment.

Because it is a ride, a story, it is safe to let go and go weeeeee.




Not really, I have lost the sensation of joy from roller coasters because I know them to be predetermined



No, you have lost the sense of joy of life altogether. Don't go arguing your own experiences as some universal truth. It makes you sound very stupid. Instead say things like "I think..." "I believe..." :crankey:


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InvisibleAsante
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Posts: 86,961
Re: Better to never have been [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #26647519 - 05/04/20 05:41 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
What good is a story if you know it’s a story.




As an author I tell you: knowing that a rollercoaster is a predetermined ride adds to its enjoyment.

Because it is a ride, a story, it is safe to let go and go weeeeee.




Not really, I have lost the sensation of joy from roller coasters because I know them to be predetermined





You seriously needed a Santa talk that rollercoasters arent actualy out of control? :aweman:


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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OfflineInnerWisdom
Male


Registered: 08/09/19
Posts: 1,936
Loc: North EU
Last seen: 7 days, 12 hours
Re: Better to never have been [Re: Asante]
    #26647556 - 05/04/20 06:21 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

He seems like a very depressed person. Well, good thing is major depression can be treated or at least alleviated to some extent. Mushrooms are looking very promising for that as well, so good thing he is in the right place. I just don't think he wants to get better


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,732
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: Better to never have been [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #26647560 - 05/04/20 06:25 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, something or other like that.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,331
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Re: Better to never have been [Re: Asante]
    #26647643 - 05/04/20 07:39 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I love me some Santa talks.:smirk:


--------------------


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Invisiblelarry.fisherman
shoulda died already
I'm a teapot

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 36,294
Re: Better to never have been [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26648076 - 05/04/20 10:58 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
If we use Thanatos’ perversion of kiddy logic, than I’m going to need you all to disprove or prove that we live in some higher beings mind that is imagining the universe. 

We can’t move on until we figure this one out boys!  Without knowing for certain if it’s true or false no one is allowed to do anything, and we may as well submit like pussies to our own pity party .

Also, the spaghetti monster called, and he wants in on the whole prove or disprove it.  He’s asking for evidence that he doesn’t exist or does.


As ridiculous as it all sounds, ignore that little part for me!  What’s important is that since you cannot show me evidence for or against it with any certainty -  surely all is just my own ego :smug:


Why that?  Because I say so.  Ignore everything about the person and their life and condition - we must answer these questions as if they are a matter of life and death!

If nothing is real or can be verified -  Make sure to stop the press, and turn out the lights and say goodbye to the show!  Because in my small mind I can’t find a way to live when I believe the story that my thoughts make in my head.  🤦‍♂️

:snub:

I have the one true truth of reality, so it must be so. Nay sayers are just ignorant and I know better. :patlal:




How else does one move on when they can’t be sure if other people exist? Wouldn’t the most logical thing to do would be to assume that people don’t exist and the same with external reality if I can’t be sure it/they exist.



Who told you logic is always smart? You need to drop that assumption because if logic were a universal truth then scientific innovation is meaningless and without merit. You have to supercede logic to break the barriers the previous innovation created. Makes sense no? I like to say that wise people are the most patient hypocrites.


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,331
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Re: Better to never have been [Re: larry.fisherman]
    #26648079 - 05/04/20 11:00 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Patient Hypocrites, hmmmm.....


--------------------


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
Bodhi
I'm a teapot User Gallery


Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,732
Loc: The Primordial Mind
Re: Better to never have been [Re: tyrannicalrex] * 2
    #26648115 - 05/04/20 11:18 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Everyone’s a bit of a hypocrite, all just trying to find their own way.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,331
Loc: subtropics
Re: Better to never have been [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26648119 - 05/04/20 11:22 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Hip hopocrite-band name!


--------------------


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