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OfflineThrill
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Getting up and running with edibles. Help a brother out...
    #26644169 - 05/02/20 04:47 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I just a month or so ago got back into myco hobbying or whatever after years away. Plenty of experience with cubes and agar and what not. Just never ventured too far into edibles. Now Im getting back into it and I got some questions hopefully yall can help answer.

So Im debating which route I wanna start, bags or cakes. Im leaning to bags, cause I dont feel like hassling with a SGFC or similar, and I know (or thought I knew) you could fruit oysters and lions mane right from the bag, just cutting some slits in it. I know they both need tons of FAE, but can you fruit them in the slit bags outside a fruiting chamber? I know its not the ideal way to go, but can you get success that route?

As for bags, I plan on starting everything via LC, and Id rather seal the bags prior to sterilizing. Ive read mixed things on this. Ive seen a lot of people deal with popped bags, Ive read lots of places say it shouldnt happen if you vacuum the air out prior to sealing, which is something I could do for sure. So can it work this way?

On a sub note, Ive got some Masters Mix pellets (50/50 soy hull and hardwood dust) and also some regular oak dust pellets. Ive read to mix those 2 parts to 3 parts of water to make suitable substrate. Can the hydrated Masters Mix (and some verm?) be put into half pints and used like that for a PF style cake, or would it be better to do the sawdust/verm/flour types?

Ummm...I think thats it for right now. I feel like such a noob lol, like its my first time around again. Any answers/help is appreciated.


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Offlinedeadmandave
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Re: Getting up and running with edibles. Help a brother out... [Re: Thrill]
    #26644223 - 05/02/20 05:22 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I think oysters and lions mane will do ok outside a fruiting chamber as long as you can give them some attention throughout the day by misting. SGFC works fine for edibles but it gets a little cramped... you can make it as big as you like tho. :shrug: 

i think pf cakes should do fine with masters mix.

2 parts water to 1 part substrate sounds ok, might be a little extra water. 60% water is what to shoot for.


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OfflineYeetusdeetus
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Re: Getting up and running with edibles. Help a brother out... [Re: deadmandave]
    #26644740 - 05/02/20 09:35 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Frank has a grocery bag tek where he fruits oysters open air, says he just mists em whenever he walks by. If you’re planning on fruiting anything open air though I’d make sure you know how to maintain proper humidity. There’s plenty of greenhouse teks out, I’m gonna be trying something like franks mini-gh tek once my bags get colonized. One thing I’d keep in mind with enclosed spaces like that is how much fae would be needed but if you follow his tek all you should  need to do is adjust your humidifiers.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Getting up and running with edibles. Help a brother out... [Re: Yeetusdeetus]
    #26644888 - 05/02/20 11:44 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

There is no sense in sealing the bags prior to your PC cycle. Fold the bag along the gussets and tuck the open end under the bag or press it against the side of the PC. Placing the bags in a pillowcase will help keep the bags from melting. The bags will form a tight seal against itself when it cools.

After you spawn to the bag seal with these...

Monoprice Releasable cable tie 6 inch 50LBS, 100pcs/Pack - Black

I have done hundreds of bags like this with virtually no contamination.

After the bag has fully colonized. Open the Releasable cable ties and press out all the air you can and reseal with the Releasable cable ties. flip the bag over and cut a slit from corner to corner on the bottom of the bag. Try not to lift the bag when you cut it. You want the bag to stay tight against the sub. That is why you use the bottom of the bag. Because the sub is flat and tighest on the bottom. If the bag lifts it will be ok, but you will get pins inside the bag that will not grow properly. If you are fruiting in open-air lay the sub bag on a garbage bag and when you mist, mist the sub bag and the garbage bag. The water evaporating from the garbage bag will help keep the humidity up around the mushrooms longer.


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Re: Getting up and running with edibles. Help a brother out... [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26645265 - 05/03/20 05:52 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I've heard you mention using pillow cases before in a PC to help keep bags from melting. And every so often I do get a bag that stretches thin. and sometimes holes happen. Thankfully for the most part since I open the PC in front of a flow hood and pull the bags out there  have been able to save most of the bags that get holes in them. I can't remember trying to PC pillow cases. So how does that work as far as burning the pillow cases? Same as plastic in a PC? Do you fit 4 bags in a pillow case? 2 bags? I know I have basically zero wiggle room when doing 50/50 bags in the 21 qt PC. Do you just put the pillow case between the bag and the side of the PC but not put the bags in the pillow case? I am wondering how much having the wet pillow case wrapped all around the bags will attract contams to the bag when puling everything out, even in front of a flow hood?


--------------------
Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Getting up and running with edibles. Help a brother out... [Re: seagu]
    #26645860 - 05/03/20 12:14 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I only say a pillowcase because it is something I think everyone has and that is what I used in the beginning. The pillowcase just puts a thin layer between the bag and the PC walls. The pillowcase may not be needed if you are using an electric stove but I still do it for added protection. With a gas stove, I would definitely use the pillowcase. Heat from the open flam goes up the sides of the PC and heats them up. Causing bags to melt that are against the sides, if you do not keep an eye on how high you have the flame. My soybean hulls come in what I think is a tyvek bag and I use that now instead of the pillowcase. I am sure you can buy the tyvek bags from a feedstore. I think they told me they were 57 cents. I have only had a problem with burning the pillowcase once when I let the PC go almost dry. I wouldn't recommend the PC running dry weather you are using a pillowcase or not. I would suggest buying a couple of pillowcases from a dollar store and dedicating them for this purpose. Or calling the feed store and ask if you can buy the bags they put the bulk grain in. I think I have done 4 bags in the pillowcase but I usually do 3 because I only do my spawn and agar in the PC. My sub bags go in my 55-gallon steamer. I do put them inside the pillowcase and then twist it at the top and pull it back down over the bags. This gives a double layer of the pillowcase. As long as there is something between the bag and the PC sides you should be fine. I move my PC to my lab and open it in front of the flow hood so I don't have a problem with any contams from the pillowcase. But even if you have to take it out of the PC and move it to your lab the pillowcase will only be an extra layer of protection. If any contams get on the pillowcase they will be on the outside and the inside will still be clean.


Edited by SHROOMSISAY01 (05/03/20 12:22 PM)


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Getting up and running with edibles. Help a brother out... [Re: seagu]
    #26645888 - 05/03/20 12:28 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

seagu said:Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.





If you are banging your head against the wall? That is not a solution oozing out. Its blood!!

I am just having fun with that statement. No offense intended.


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OfflineThrill
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Re: Getting up and running with edibles. Help a brother out... [Re: seagu]
    #26646159 - 05/03/20 02:26 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I appreciate all the advice.

I went and made up a couple blocks and a dozen cakes. Gonna put the bags on top of the jars in the PC later when I get a chance to run it. Gonna just leave em unsealed and fold the excess around and under the base. Well see how it runs.

I found 400g pellets/600g water makes exactly enough for a dozen half pints. I used the same amount in each bag, just to test before I move up to larger ones.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Getting up and running with edibles. Help a brother out... [Re: Thrill]
    #26646209 - 05/03/20 02:52 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Thrill said:
I appreciate all the advice.

I went and made up a couple blocks and a dozen cakes. Gonna put the bags on top of the jars in the PC later when I get a chance to run it. Gonna just leave em unsealed and fold the excess around and under the base. Well see how it runs.

I found 400g pellets/600g water makes exactly enough for a dozen half pints. I used the same amount in each bag, just to test before I move up to larger ones.




You have to be careful with fuel pellets. Field capacity is different. If you are getting any drips when you squeeze a handful you are to wet. Beest to test in the microwave for the water content b4 you wast all the time and end up with to wet of a substrate. I just made a tek on how it is done you might want to give it a look...

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26632628


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OfflineThrill
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Re: Getting up and running with edibles. Help a brother out... [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26646615 - 05/03/20 05:48 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Nice write up in there. Thanks for that. I figured that out my own actually while I was mixing up the 2nd batch. I noticed the water was squeezing out, but not running free, almost like it was a thin paste or something like that.

I even started to write in that post about it and not getting the normal field capacity signs, but I deleted it before I posted, cause, idk. Funny that you would then bring it up in the next post lol.

I never got any water dripping out of my hand, even squeezing the ever loving shit out of it, and it "feels" like a properly wet substrate to me, at least from all my experiences making BRF/Rye flour cakes and coir subs.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Getting up and running with edibles. Help a brother out... [Re: Thrill]
    #26646883 - 05/03/20 07:52 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Your sub sounds about right. But there only two ways to make sure. Inoculate them and wait and see. Or do a 100-gram sample in the microwave. I preferrer the later. I leave the guesswork to people that have the time and money to wast. Once you have the numbers correct it is just a matter of repeating the process with the same brands and weights. It sounds like you have been around the block a time or two, so I have no doubt you will make it a success.

Good luck my friend!!


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Offlineseagu

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Re: Getting up and running with edibles. Help a brother out... [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26646923 - 05/03/20 08:14 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SHROOMSISAY01 said:
Quote:

seagu said:Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.





If you are banging your head against the wall? That is not a solution oozing out. Its blood!!

I am just having fun with that statement. No offense intended.




hah. yes. no doubt. When all else fails time to put some skin in the game.


--------------------
Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Getting up and running with edibles. Help a brother out... [Re: seagu]
    #26646983 - 05/03/20 08:46 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

seagu said:
Quote:

SHROOMSISAY01 said:
Quote:

seagu said:Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.





If you are banging your head against the wall? That is not a solution oozing out. Its blood!!

I am just having fun with that statement. No offense intended.




hah. yes. no doubt. When all else fails time to put some skin in the game.




Glad to see you have a good sense of humor. I have not laughed this hard in a long time. That brings new meaning to having skin in the game.


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Offlineseagu

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Re: Getting up and running with edibles. Help a brother out... [Re: SHROOMSISAY01]
    #26647532 - 05/04/20 05:53 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SHROOMSISAY01 said:
Quote:

seagu said:
Quote:

SHROOMSISAY01 said:
Quote:

seagu said:Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.





If you are banging your head against the wall? That is not a solution oozing out. Its blood!!

I am just having fun with that statement. No offense intended.




hah. yes. no doubt. When all else fails time to put some skin in the game.




Glad to see you have a good sense of humor. I have not laughed this hard in a long time. That brings new meaning to having skin in the game.




Thanks. Sometimes life may feel like you are hopelessly banging your head against a wall and insanely repeating the same thing expecting different results. Then when you decide to get aggressive and put some blood in with the sweat and tears. Blood, which is in many cultures and beliefs, our life essence, starts coming into the picture and things change. Sometimes you just need to dig deeper still to reach your goal instead of giving up. Because like those who are expert troubleshooters know, repetition is key. But you just change 1 thing and sometimes ever so slight that you just didn't quite see before and BAMMO it's a whole new result with a Pot O' Gold at the end of the rainbow.


--------------------
Plan to win or you are planning for failure. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it. Just figure out the solution. Even if that means banging your head on a wall until the solution oozes out of you.


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OfflineThrill
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Re: Getting up and running with edibles. Help a brother out... [Re: seagu]
    #26650799 - 05/05/20 01:34 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

So I PCd the couple block bags last night, and let them cool off naturally overnight. Took the jiggle weight off a couple hours after it hit zero.

One bag was completely unchanged from how I placed it in there. The other seemed to have inflated just a bit. Its not like a balloon ready to pop lol, but its got some air in there. But it seems to be air tight. Doesnt deflate when I squeeze it.

I knocked them both up this afernoon with some LC. Just poked through the bag and sealed it with a couple layers of micropore tape.

The inflated bag. Is that normal for presealing? What caused one bag to remain perfectly unchanged and the other to inflate? They were side by side on top of a layer of halfpint jars.


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OfflineSHROOMSISAY01M
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Re: Getting up and running with edibles. Help a brother out... [Re: Thrill]
    #26651696 - 05/05/20 08:57 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Not sure what happened there Mine is always tight. So much so I have to open the bag and press on the sides to break up the sub. If I don't open the bag it is like trying to squeeze a brick. Maybe you left some air in the bag, to begin with.


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