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OfflineDr.Ivan
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Automated fruiting chamber - too dry? * 1
    #26612670 - 04/19/20 10:47 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Hi,

I have built a new fruiting chamber, which is automated with
- 1 fogger
- 1 air inlet ventilator
- 1 air outlet ventilator
- 1 RH controller, set to 90-95%

The chamber is never really foggy as far as the ey can see, but RH is always between 90  and 95 %.

I was hoping I would not have to mist manually anymore.

I have placed my first colonized substrates inside, which had been colonizing in closed boxes, wrapped in a plastic bag for 2-3 weeks.

Looking at the substrate I am worried, that it is getting dry or already is too dry, not sure.

What do you think? Do I still have to mist manually or maybe use a 2nd fogger and dial up the humidty controller to not have a max setting, basically keeping the foggers running all the time? Shouldn't 90-95% RH be sufficient without misting?



Best
Ivan


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InvisibleLadysKnight
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Re: Automated fruiting chamber - too dry? [Re: Dr.Ivan]
    #26612775 - 04/19/20 11:36 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Yeah, too dry. If you look at the side shot, on the left, under the barnacle/eye of sauron, where conditions are best, it looks like it's gonna fruit. The right side of same pic looks trichy/green but could be the light.

I've seen very few of these setups work well and never do they save efforts. You shouldn't need to mist them before first flush. And colonizing in a bag is old Tek/unhelpful.


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OfflineSockadin
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Re: Automated fruiting chamber - too dry? [Re: LadysKnight]
    #26612807 - 04/19/20 11:48 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Yep I spot the Trich too


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InvisibleMateja
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Re: Automated fruiting chamber - too dry? [Re: Dr.Ivan] * 1
    #26612861 - 04/19/20 12:08 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

And probably start spending minimum 3 times as more on creating an even leveled substrate surface on the coming tubs. Even surfaces create better micro climate and conditions for pinning. And another thing is that an individual substrate with its individual water content, depth along with specific culture will crave different and varying types of maintenence than a 'fully automated' pre-programmed routines. Some days the grow area will be dried, some days more humid, the substrates will evaporate at slightly various rates during the hours, days, weeks and will depend in addition on close visual inspection while you learn about your setup and the basics of fruiting so that you can fine tune it later when you find what works for you.


I guess my only point is keep in mind that it's a living thing you're maintaining inside a living micro climate, none of those are a computer or mechanical machine like the greenhouse that go by what's programmed. It will vary and this is where your eyes come into the picture, hope that makes sense.


--------------------
Cakes inside Water Tub


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Invisiblecracoucas
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Re: Automated fruiting chamber - too dry? [Re: Mateja]
    #26612921 - 04/19/20 12:28 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I'm also struggling with dryness in my greenhouse. That's what helped a bit so far:
  • I bumped it to between 94 and 96% RH
  • I lay a cardboard on top of the trays that have not yet pinned
  • I put some verm with the coir, seems to help
  • I do additional manual misting once a day, when necessary


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Re: Automated fruiting chamber - too dry? [Re: cracoucas]
    #26612987 - 04/19/20 12:58 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

The problem with the Martha is you have air in and air out. If your air in isn't humid you are drying out your substrate before the humidifier gets to do its job. I have seen cubes in a Martha work. I have done it my self, but it is alot more dialing in intensive than a mono or shoebox.

If you have an inflow of dry air you don't need and outflow. If that makes sense.

Also you still need mist so that you can wick the mositure from the surface triggering the pinning process.


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OfflineDr.Ivan
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Re: Automated fruiting chamber - too dry? [Re: LadysKnight]
    #26613008 - 04/19/20 01:10 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

@LadysNight

Yeah, crap. I had seen the green contam on the pic as well. It is contaminated in that area. It could still fruit in some areas, no? Should it be thrown out at this stage?

Wasn't aware that colonizing in a bag was an old procedure. New Teks don't distinguish between colonizing and fruiting conditions as far as I understand. I will change this next time.

@Matea

Yes, I get your point. I guess I was too optimistic with regard to these automated setups. Yes, living organisms and all the variables and automation are a difficult match. I will give the tubs more attention and mist once in a while then. Let's see how this goes.

Thanks
Best
Ivan


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InvisibleLadysKnight
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Re: Automated fruiting chamber - too dry? [Re: Dr.Ivan] * 1
    #26613020 - 04/19/20 01:21 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Thrown out or grown out. Your best bet would be to bury in a shady place.


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InvisibleMateja
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Re: Automated fruiting chamber - too dry? [Re: Dr.Ivan]
    #26613103 - 04/19/20 02:24 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Dr.Ivan said:
I guess I was too optimistic with regard to these automated setups.



I don't think you were, IMO fully automated fruiting chambers exist and they're unmodified tubs such as shoeboxes, you have parts of those inside the greenhouse but it should be outside and have a lid, the greenhouse is artificial intelligence trying to create environment for living organisms. Compared to just a shoebox grow which by these definitions would equate to 'natural' intelligence cause it creates its own near optimal micro climate needing no mechanic parts, devices or electricity. Greenhouses can be dialed in but from my observation what they generally do is choke the substrates with too much water vapor and then they dry out the sub surface with too much FAE. Almost like a car driver constantly stomping the accelerator and then the brakes consecutively back and forth, it doesn't sound like a smooth  ride to me, and in fact doesn't resemble anything I've ever seen in the nature when it comes to Cubensis natural habitat. And unmodified tub imo is much closer to natural environment than fans and fogger will create by 'force'. Passive constant FAE is the natural climate as is inside the unmodified tubs. These are just my opinions and rationalization don't take it more seriously then some other with different view on this. Gl


--------------------
Cakes inside Water Tub


Edited by Mateja (04/19/20 02:27 PM)


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Offlineshevanel
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Re: Automated fruiting chamber - too dry? [Re: LadysKnight]
    #26613184 - 04/19/20 03:19 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

LadysKnight said:
Thrown out or grown out. Your best bet would be to bury in a shady place.




I like that, throw it or grow it lol


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OfflineDr.Ivan
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Re: Automated fruiting chamber - too dry? [Re: Mateja]
    #26614144 - 04/20/20 12:33 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

@Mateah

Yes, I used these shoeboxes before with a lid, but got annoyed with the misting and fanning, so I wanted to automate the process somewhat. Maybe I will go back to aimple shoeboxes again and use the fruting chamber for growing some thai herbs instead.


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InvisibleMateja
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Re: Automated fruiting chamber - too dry? [Re: Dr.Ivan]
    #26614240 - 04/20/20 02:15 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

First off you can't automate a living thing and a living climate just on a whim before you understand even the basics. I feel very comfortable doing most methods and I understand why things world the eay I work and I can tell you I honestly would probably struggle a lot in trying to create a 'fully automated' Martha, and I bet many experienced growers will tell you something similar.

And honestly if you're 'annoyed' by maintaining the microclimate a few seconds a day per tub then maybe this hobby is for someone you pay money to so he/she can do this for you if youre looking to create a machine that does everything? :lol: I'm honestly not trying to put you down but you get my point right? I'm assuming you want to learn how to grow mushrooms? But instead of getting yourself involved in the process intimately, I stead it annoys you and you want some electric tent to grow for you but you are the one who will program the electric tent on how to grow for you but you are irritated by the thought of getting involved to even learn the basics so you can one day in the near future actually perhaps even program that tent and fine tune it so that it actually does something for you like you planned? :bongload:


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Offlinepoisoned
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Re: Automated fruiting chamber - too dry? [Re: Mateja]
    #26614383 - 04/20/20 05:24 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

A properly tuned shoebox doesn't need any misting until the first flush. And they should never need any fanning.


--------------------
How I do glass dishes


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OfflineDr.Ivan
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Re: Automated fruiting chamber - too dry? [Re: Mateja] * 1
    #26615069 - 04/20/20 11:30 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

@Mateah

I think you may have read something into my statements that isn't there. I have put in many days in learning how to grow mushrooms and experimented a lot with agar work and many cultures. Have even built my own flow hood, because I enjoy it. I felt having a nice big grow room with an ideal climate for mushroom growing would be pretty cool. I am actually somewhat of an equipment nerd and like to build stuff, so exactly opposite from what you read into my words. I want to continue growing, but if this grow room becomes a pain in the ass to use, I will simply go back to shoeboxes. Though sometimes I am traveling and a fully automated setup could help with that. Now I understand that it needs a lot of finetuning. I probably still have not enough mist created by this 1 small fogger, so will mist manually for the time being.

Thanks all for taking the time to help out!


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Invisiblecracoucas
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Re: Automated fruiting chamber - too dry? [Re: Dr.Ivan]
    #26620322 - 04/22/20 03:40 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Could you tell us a bit more about your fogger? I started with a fogger on which I was not blowing with a fan. Putting the fan on the fogger changed everything. Regardless of how I had set the RH controller. Just trying...


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OfflineDr.Ivan
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Re: Automated fruiting chamber - too dry? [Re: cracoucas]
    #26643419 - 05/02/20 10:44 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I am using one of these in a bucket with water:



The bucket has a hepa filter as inlet and the humid air is ventilated out into the fruiting chamber. The fogger is switched on/off based on RH in the chamber. It keeps the RH in the chamber between 90-95%. However, the substrates became very dry and the fruiting did not go well. I suspect it was just still not enough mist and too dry overall. Maybe these types of foggers are insufficient.



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OfflineCelestialexplorer1
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Re: Automated fruiting chamber - too dry? [Re: Dr.Ivan]
    #26643440 - 05/02/20 10:57 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

I have pretty much the same set up and my humidity is always between 90-100 and I set it up with the idea to not have to mist for proper surface moister anymore but I still have to about every 2-3 days. It also has a lot to do with heat. What is the temp in your tent. When you open the door do you fee the atmospheric difference. I have found my grows go better in a slightly cooler environment like 75-78 nothing past 79-81.


--------------------


To spend just one moment in eternity


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OfflineDr.Ivan
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Re: Automated fruiting chamber - too dry? [Re: Celestialexplorer1]
    #26643476 - 05/02/20 11:16 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Temp in my basement is only about 68 degrees.

I had mostly side pins with this first try, which tells me, that moisture was really lacking. I have seen some tents, which were basically foggy all the time with water droplets on the walls. Mine doesn't look humid at all and it does not feel like it very much, when I open the door. I guess one needs m much heavier fog machine in order to make manual misting superfluous.


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OfflineCelestialexplorer1
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Re: Automated fruiting chamber - too dry? [Re: Dr.Ivan]
    #26643648 - 05/02/20 12:52 PM (3 years, 9 months ago)



My setup just has the one ultrasonic humidifier connected to the top and bottom tiers and I run it on the lowest level possible all day everyday and with no controller because humidity stays above 90 all the time. When it gets foggy I usually turn it down. As long as the humidity is constant I don’t think it needs t be foggy. I also put FAE holes at all levels with poly fill(just for a little extra oxygen) also perlite  in the bottom tray collects excess water I’ve grown a lot of trays through this now and never had problems. You might just wanna try hooking it up to a humidifier and one with a big tank so you don’t have to refill constantly. That one I have I have to refill about every 8-10 days


--------------------


To spend just one moment in eternity


Edited by Celestialexplorer1 (05/02/20 01:03 PM)


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OfflineDr.Ivan
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Re: Automated fruiting chamber - too dry? [Re: Celestialexplorer1]
    #26645177 - 05/03/20 04:14 AM (3 years, 9 months ago)

Just to be sure, you have the same type of ultrasonic humidifier as me?
It looks like you are circulating the air through the air instead of constantly pulling fresh air in and exhausting old air old?

In my setup I blow in fresh humid air and have an exhaust with another fan out the window.

If you circulate you would end up with much higher humidity I assume, which may be the reason, why my setup dries out the substrate.


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