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OfflineEnvix
Avoidant Disorder
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Registered: 11/04/08
Posts: 18,206
Last seen: 9 months, 24 days
Re: Better to never have been [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26644412 - 05/02/20 06:48 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I see both jokeshopbeard and thanatos's viewpoints. I'm an existentialist i guess. Life has no meaning,  but we do.

If we choose to. Or not.

One thing is true however

The duality of life is what allows us to give it meaning
Light/dark
Life/death
Love/hate
Bliss/despair

Do these things actually exist? Well, not really. But the duality does. And we can not know one without the other


--------------------
smack a hoe out this dimension
continue my ascension
-bhad bhabie

rip. todcasil, acid sloth, st1llnox, zappaisgod, big worm (sketch), tim b


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InvisibleAroundtheSon
Learning to See
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Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 4,427
Loc: Midwest.
Re: Better to never have been [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #26644602 - 05/02/20 08:24 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

I didn't choose to be here ( I don't think ).
But I'm not really wanting to leave either. I like being. Even with the bullshit.

The lense you look through is so cloudy that it reflects all the light shining on you.


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OfflineTheEschatologist
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Registered: 02/22/18
Posts: 354
Last seen: 19 days, 15 hours
Re: Better to never have been [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26645122 - 05/03/20 03:18 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:

I’m mostly just waiting to die. Suicide sounds painful and it’s success rate is spotty.




I see, thanks for the answer. Not wanting to die but also not wanting to live is a pretty awful headspace to be in. Sounds pretty close to clinical depression honestly.

I'd say keep having conversations like this if it helps in some way, better than just brooding on your own all day. Though if I were to guess I'd venture your blockage may be more emotional/psychological than conceptual/intellectual. As such, philosophical debates about the ultimate meaning/non-meaning of life probably won't dig into the roots of your suffering.

If you ever start feeling like you genuinely want to die and might act on it I'd implore you to reach out to someone, perhaps here or preferably a person you can talk to directly. Please just trust me on this, trying to kill yourself is not worthwhile in the long run.

I hope over time you're able to find a change and end up seeing at least a tiny kernel of value in being alive. Perhaps something better will eventually evolve from there. Until then, take it easy.


Edited by TheEschatologist (05/03/20 09:32 AM)


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OfflineThanatos10
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Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 2,770
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
Re: Better to never have been [Re: Envix]
    #26645492 - 05/03/20 08:44 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Envix said:
I see both jokeshopbeard and thanatos's viewpoints. I'm an existentialist i guess. Life has no meaning,  but we do.

If we choose to. Or not.

One thing is true however

The duality of life is what allows us to give it meaning
Light/dark
Life/death
Love/hate
Bliss/despair

Do these things actually exist? Well, not really. But the duality does. And we can not know one without the other




These things actually do exist but they aren’t dual. Light and dark aren’t dual opposing forces it’s really just the same thing, a measure of light. Life and death certainty exist as well as the others but these things aren’t really opposed.

Also them being dual doesn’t necessarily imply meaning either.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflineLed Zeppelin
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Registered: 05/17/10
Posts: 3,962
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
Re: Better to never have been [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #26645731 - 05/03/20 11:11 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

You want to end suffering on the planet it is extremely simple. Get rid of communism, fascism, dictators in general around the globe and make all countries free step one. Step two everyone must spread out into small cities (like a hundred thousand population). You can still live in the sticks and small towns but NO cities larger than this. All current cities would be demolished.This kind of society is much healthier it gives people a better chance to succeed. It’s much easier to fix issues when you have only a small city to work with. Idk what the rest is but free the world and spread out


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OfflineThanatos10
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Re: Better to never have been [Re: Led Zeppelin]
    #26645809 - 05/03/20 11:49 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Led Zeppelin said:
You want to end suffering on the planet it is extremely simple. Get rid of communism, fascism, dictators in general around the globe and make all countries free step one. Step two everyone must spread out into small cities (like a hundred thousand population). You can still live in the sticks and small towns but NO cities larger than this. All current cities would be demolished.This kind of society is much healthier it gives people a better chance to succeed. It’s much easier to fix issues when you have only a small city to work with. Idk what the rest is but free the world and spread out




If you want to end suffering then extinguish all life.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflineO_Dweeds
Humanitarian Magician


Registered: 09/27/14
Posts: 942
Loc: Molecular (Creating, Watc...
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Re: Better to never have been [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26645830 - 05/03/20 11:58 AM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

Led Zeppelin said:
You want to end suffering on the planet it is extremely simple. Get rid of communism, fascism, dictators in general around the globe and make all countries free step one. Step two everyone must spread out into small cities (like a hundred thousand population). You can still live in the sticks and small towns but NO cities larger than this. All current cities would be demolished.This kind of society is much healthier it gives people a better chance to succeed. It’s much easier to fix issues when you have only a small city to work with. Idk what the rest is but free the world and spread out




If you want to end suffering then extinguish all life.




You're really misinterpreting the spirit dude. You gotta love to burn; love both the good & the bad for teaching you what it is you need at the time.
But that's just like, my opinion man...


--------------------
Oxygen. Water. Neil Young

Our word "planet" comes from the Greek word planetes, meaning "wanderer."

"There ain't no revolution, only evolution, but every time I'm in Georgia I eat a peach for peace."
Gregg Allman


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Invisiblelarry.fisherman
shoulda died already
I'm a teapot

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 36,294
Re: Better to never have been [Re: Thanatos10] * 2
    #26645841 - 05/03/20 12:08 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

Led Zeppelin said:
You want to end suffering on the planet it is extremely simple. Get rid of communism, fascism, dictators in general around the globe and make all countries free step one. Step two everyone must spread out into small cities (like a hundred thousand population). You can still live in the sticks and small towns but NO cities larger than this. All current cities would be demolished.This kind of society is much healthier it gives people a better chance to succeed. It’s much easier to fix issues when you have only a small city to work with. Idk what the rest is but free the world and spread out




If you want to end suffering then extinguish all life.



You sound depressed and extremely lazy. Like annoyingly lazy. "Why bother??:sad:" Like, you got hands and feet and a brain to use. Create something better for yourself. Giving up isn't a philosophical standpoint it's just a choice:rolleyes:


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OfflineThanatos10
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Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 2,770
Loc: South Florida
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Re: Better to never have been [Re: O_Dweeds]
    #26645876 - 05/03/20 12:22 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

O_Dweeds said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

Led Zeppelin said:
You want to end suffering on the planet it is extremely simple. Get rid of communism, fascism, dictators in general around the globe and make all countries free step one. Step two everyone must spread out into small cities (like a hundred thousand population). You can still live in the sticks and small towns but NO cities larger than this. All current cities would be demolished.This kind of society is much healthier it gives people a better chance to succeed. It’s much easier to fix issues when you have only a small city to work with. Idk what the rest is but free the world and spread out




If you want to end suffering then extinguish all life.




You're really misinterpreting the spirit dude. You gotta love to burn; love both the good & the bad for teaching you what it is you need at the time.
But that's just like, my opinion man...




But that's just it, you don't have to do anything. If you really wanted to end suffering for good then you would have to end all life. So long as life exists then suffering will as well.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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Invisiblelarry.fisherman
shoulda died already
I'm a teapot

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 36,294
Re: Better to never have been [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26645902 - 05/03/20 12:34 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Wouldn't then a grander "meaning" of life be to cause less suffering for the ones that come after you? You know.. plant a tree and someone else gets to sit under it? Don't you think we have the ability to do that if we try hard enough? I can't see how that wouldn't in itself be a path to our own happiness. Learning the circle of compassion - me, you, and the ones that come after. Civilization is based on compassion don't you think? Not just for others but for ourselves because people are unhappy when they're truly alone. Wouldn't that be beautiful? You ask for a meaning of life and someone says "Just do it together."



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OfflineKetamineAndHoes
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Registered: 03/04/19
Posts: 213
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: Better to never have been [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26645931 - 05/03/20 12:49 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
You know what? If I was of a vast intelligence enough to have created life (and so humans) I couldn't think of a better environment to give them in which to learn and grow. All the obstactles and challenges and tragedy are the perfect situations in which to test them for fitness and ability to learn and handle it with a cool head.

The fact that many don't is not the problem of the environment - IMO - It's of the creatures themselves. As a creater, I would not consider it my fault if 80% of them turned out to morons.

And yes Thanatos, we all know you wish you were dead and didn't have to struggle like the rest of us. For not the first time ever; I remind you that you sound just like a broken record.




I don't really understand your logic because you essentially justify creating harm for the sake of somebody "learning". You could use your distorted logic to justify any sort of heinous act. A pedophile rapes a kid so that the kid will learn an important lesson about reality and find himself. A terrorist bomber bombs a building and leaves many people maimed and disfigured so that they'll get a valuable lesson from it. etc etc. Even in a court of law, that sort of logic doesn't even hold up. Hell, even a parent hitting their kid is punishable by the law now, even if the parent's intent is for the child to learn something.


------
I agree with antinatalism personally. I wouldn't create a child, especially in today's world. Why risk creating somebody who is born with cancer or gets paralyzed in a car wreck or becomes suicidal and depressed? if you don't have a child, nobody suffers and nobody is deprived of joy because they never exist. The logic in that is clear as day and consistent. Breeding is selfish and is in only the interest of the parents to experience parenthood, secure their marriage, post photos for instagram, etc.


--------------------
Took a tab, then another tab, then somebody said to me
Nigga, why you babysittin’ only two or three tabs?
Imma show you how to turn it up a notch
First you get a swimmin pool full of acid, then you dive in it
Pool full of acid, then you dive in it
🌊 🌊 🌊 🌊 🌊


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Invisiblelarry.fisherman
shoulda died already
I'm a teapot

Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 36,294
Re: Better to never have been [Re: KetamineAndHoes] * 1
    #26645934 - 05/03/20 12:51 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

If the spiritual assumptions are true then it's likely our existence is as relative to them as a video game character is to us. I'm not saying we don't matter, but that what we are is less tangible.


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Registered: 08/09/19
Posts: 1,936
Loc: North EU
Last seen: 4 days, 11 hours
Re: Better to never have been [Re: larry.fisherman]
    #26645936 - 05/03/20 12:52 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Didn't read most of the posts in this thread, but the thing that came to my mind is that the title of this thread is truth for many people in this world. I feel for those who are stuck as slaves in factories or human trafficking and cannot enjoy freedom and appreciate this world. At least I think they are not having a good time. From their point of view it seems very ungrateful for us with good standards of living to be complaining about life's hardships or lack of meaning and purpose. Well, it's all just perspective really isn't it. And I don't mean that people can't feel the way they do or think the way they think and ponder these things on a global scale. More to the point of the op, I understand this point of view that bringing more humans to this world than there are today leads to more suffering. At least that's what I think. We should aim to get the population way below 7 billion. Like 4-5 max with our current use of resources and polluting.


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OfflineInnerWisdom
Male


Registered: 08/09/19
Posts: 1,936
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Re: Better to never have been [Re: Led Zeppelin] * 1
    #26645940 - 05/03/20 12:54 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Led Zeppelin said:
You want to end suffering on the planet it is extremely simple. Get rid of communism, fascism, dictators in general around the globe and make all countries free step one. Step two everyone must spread out into small cities (like a hundred thousand population). You can still live in the sticks and small towns but NO cities larger than this. All current cities would be demolished.This kind of society is much healthier it gives people a better chance to succeed. It’s much easier to fix issues when you have only a small city to work with. Idk what the rest is but free the world and spread out



This is on the right track imo. The answer can't be extinguish all life that suffers. That is a lifehating perspective. I don't know what else to call it.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
Ascension Energy & Alien UFOs
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Re: Better to never have been [Re: Thanatos10]
    #26645941 - 05/03/20 12:54 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

O_Dweeds said:
Quote:

Thanatos10 said:
Quote:

Led Zeppelin said:
You want to end suffering on the planet it is extremely simple. Get rid of communism, fascism, dictators in general around the globe and make all countries free step one. Step two everyone must spread out into small cities (like a hundred thousand population). You can still live in the sticks and small towns but NO cities larger than this. All current cities would be demolished.This kind of society is much healthier it gives people a better chance to succeed. It’s much easier to fix issues when you have only a small city to work with. Idk what the rest is but free the world and spread out




If you want to end suffering then extinguish all life.




You're really misinterpreting the spirit dude. You gotta love to burn; love both the good & the bad for teaching you what it is you need at the time.
But that's just like, my opinion man...




But that's just it, you don't have to do anything. If you really wanted to end suffering for good then you would have to end all life. So long as life exists then suffering will as well.




That's under the assumption that ALL life is suffering. Is ALL LIFE suffering right now in the Coronavirus 2020? Or is Nature, Plants, Trees and Animals making a Grand Come-Back?


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OfflineKetamineAndHoes
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Registered: 03/04/19
Posts: 213
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: Better to never have been [Re: InnerWisdom]
    #26645962 - 05/03/20 01:02 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

InnerWisdom said:
Didn't read most of the posts in this thread, but the thing that came to my mind is that the title of this thread is truth for many people in this world. I feel for those who are stuck as slaves in factories or human trafficking and cannot enjoy freedom and appreciate this world. At least I think they are not having a good time. From their point of view it seems very ungrateful for us with good standards of living to be complaining about life's hardships or lack of meaning and purpose. Well, it's all just perspective really isn't it. And I don't mean that people can't feel the way they do or think the way they think and ponder these things on a global scale. More to the point of the op, I understand this point of view that bringing more humans to this world than there are today leads to more suffering. At least that's what I think. We should aim to get the population way below 7 billion. Like 4-5 max with our current use of resources and polluting.




Humans are wired to suffer. There would still be disease, mental illnesses, horrible workplace accidents, greed, etc regardless of whether we're under capitalism or communism or whatever else. To think that humans have the potential to create an utopia free of suffering is silly. Suffering is abundant in both nature and human communities and has been abundant since the start of sentience.

If all sentient life became extinct, that would be an ethical miracle. There would be no child rape, no cancer, no depression, no schizophrenia, no harm. And nobody would care about the disappearance of joy since nobody would exist.

Antinatalism doesn't even promote forceful extinction. It just says that people shouldn't breed. And even one child saved from a horrible fate is still good.


--------------------
Took a tab, then another tab, then somebody said to me
Nigga, why you babysittin’ only two or three tabs?
Imma show you how to turn it up a notch
First you get a swimmin pool full of acid, then you dive in it
Pool full of acid, then you dive in it
🌊 🌊 🌊 🌊 🌊


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InvisibleAsante
Mage
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
Re: Better to never have been [Re: InnerWisdom] * 1
    #26645965 - 05/03/20 01:04 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

If I were to listen to one hour skeptic nihilist podcasts I would contemplate suicide too.


Here's one for you Thanatos:


Solipsism is real, with a twist.

Our universe and all things in it are escapist fantasies of the pre-big bang singularity, which never made it out of its own gravity well, and never will.

It lies there, dreaming to break out in vain, infinitely, trying to forget its reality by substituting it with ANYTHING BUT THAT.





Thats "The Lonely God" I spoke of, a phenomenon several dissociatives explorers have experienced in some oform or other as the highest reality.

A pointless point, just One encased eternally by Zero.

People who experienced it are no longer quite the same.


You're the figment of the Universe's imagination, Thanatos, its exactly opposite.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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OfflineThanatos10
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Posts: 2,770
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Re: Better to never have been [Re: Asante]
    #26646019 - 05/03/20 01:23 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
If I were to listen to one hour skeptic nihilist podcasts I would contemplate suicide too.


Here's one for you Thanatos:


Solipsism is real, with a twist.

Our universe and all things in it are escapist fantasies of the pre-big bang singularity, which never made it out of its own gravity well, and never will.

It lies there, dreaming to break out in vain, infinitely, trying to forget its reality by substituting it with ANYTHING BUT THAT.





Thats "The Lonely God" I spoke of, a phenomenon several dissociatives explorers have experienced in some oform or other as the highest reality.

A pointless point, just One encased eternally by Zero.

People who experienced it are no longer quite the same.


You're the figment of the Universe's imagination, Thanatos, its exactly opposite.




Why would I trust the experience of drug addled individuals. We aren’t figments of the universes imagination because the universe doesn’t have an imagination. Also there was no singularity, quantum physics has debunked that.

Honestly each time you post just shows how little you know about the universe and reality.

As for anti natalism, extinguishing all life is really the only compassionate act to take since it will prevent and stop all suffering.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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OfflineKetamineAndHoes
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Registered: 03/04/19
Posts: 213
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
Re: Better to never have been [Re: Thanatos10] * 1
    #26646026 - 05/03/20 01:28 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

No offence to this forum, I love it and think it’s dope.

But it’s hardly a constructive place to discuss antinatalism. Most people here are under the assumption that earth is a beautiful place because they’ve tripped on acid in a forest once or twice or shoved MDMA up their ass. They ignore all the horrors and deluded themselves into thinking it’s all a universal test. No different from Catholics thinking it’s God testing them.

Check out Antinatalism on Reddit or facebook if you want to explore and discuss AN more deeply with a better audience Thanatos


--------------------
Took a tab, then another tab, then somebody said to me
Nigga, why you babysittin’ only two or three tabs?
Imma show you how to turn it up a notch
First you get a swimmin pool full of acid, then you dive in it
Pool full of acid, then you dive in it
🌊 🌊 🌊 🌊 🌊


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OfflineThanatos10
Stranger
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Registered: 01/19/15
Posts: 2,770
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
Re: Better to never have been [Re: KetamineAndHoes]
    #26646049 - 05/03/20 01:36 PM (3 years, 8 months ago)

There no real point in preaching to the choir on anti natalism. The only way to be sure about it is to discuss it with people who don’t already believe it.


--------------------
As lightless oblivion devours you, drown in the ever-blooming darkness.


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